XMC-1 Dirac Live Full - Reset

[cybasoul]

I've been using Dirac Live full for a few years and have been loving it. I recently added a second subwoofer and started experiencing problems when trying to integrate the new 5.2 configuration.

Firstly I noticed that the measurements were definitely not what they were for my first sub, the low lows where no longer there. I thought there was something wrong with the microphone, then I suspected the pro-amp driving the tapped horn subwoofer, but I later realised that the  EmotivaMicCalOA file was not picked up automatically. So the Mic was not calibrated. I then searched the net and came across this EmotivaMicCalOA emotivalounge.proboards.com/thread/56779/calibration-file-xmc-calibrated-microphone. It seems to work fine, the measurements are much better, but not sure if they are what they used to look like before. I presume that problem has been solved? Is that cal file right and generic?

Second problem: after running Dirac, the left main speaker's volume was noticeably low. I went into the settings and found that the Left and Right were both on 0db but the left sounded very low. To correct this I had to bump up the left by over 5db and decreased the right by over 5db. Because of this, I can no longer play the system as loud as I could. When I increase the volume while playing music it gets to the point where the numbers go up, but no audible difference. Basically after 5db the sound's level stays the same, even if I go as high as 10db. And even that 5db is no longer as loud I am used to it when pushing the system hard. I didn't have this issue literally last week, before I ran Dirac again to integrate the new sub.

I tried disabling the new sub and reran Dirac again and the volume issue is still there. This morning I reset the XMC-1 to factory defaults. The speaker levels are all reset to 0db but still the left sounds much softer than the center and right speaker. I reran Dirac again after the factory reset and still the same same.

When switching to Preset 1 or 2 the speaker levels are all fine, its only with Dirac that they are messed up. And it's only from a week ago, they have been fine all along. No new furniture has been introduced, the only thing introduced into the room is the new subwoofer, which is next to the right speaker.

So my main question is: Is possible to basically reset/delete my Dirac profile/settings from the Dirac servers so that I basically start from scratch as if Dirac has never been run on my XMC-1?

I don't know if it matters, but bellow is my setup:
Front mains: B&W 803N (Set as small - 40hz)
Center: B&W HTM2D (Set as small - 50hz)
Surrounds: B&W 865 (Set as small - 60hz)
Dual 10" Tapped horn (The old sub)
B&W DB1 (The new sub)

XMC-1 + Dirac Live Full
Mark Levinson 431
Rotel RB993

[ttocs]

First the obvious. When you did the Reset, you also unplugged the XMC-1 for at least a minute, right?

Last week there were reports of RMC/XMC-2 owners not able to get to the processing stage with Dirac 3. Dirac changed something on their servers and suddenly these folks were able to run Dirac properly. I wonder if something changed for Dirac 1 users?

Contact Dirac.

[cybasoul]

Dec 9, 2020 10:51:53 GMT -5 ttocs said:

First the obvious. When you did the Reset, you also unplugged the XMC-1 for at least a minute, right?

Last week there were reports of RMC/XMC-2 owners not able to get to the processing stage with Dirac 3. Dirac changed something on their servers and suddenly these folks were able to run Dirac properly. I wonder if something changed for Dirac 1 users?

Contact Dirac.

I wasn't aware that I also have to unplug the unit after a rest.

I will contact Dirac.

Thanks for the response

[KeithL]

1)

There is no information about your system stored on the Dirac servers....

Other than software updates the software only connects to the servers to verify your license status....

However, on the XMC-1, the Dirac filters remain until they are replaced by new ones, and are NOT deleted with a Factory Reset).

(So you can create situations where a "stale" Dirac filter can end up being used... if you update some but not all of them.)

2)

I'm not sure why Dirac stopped automatically fetching the microphone calibration file.

However, the software actually recognizes the digitizer cable, rather than the microphone itself.

(So, if you've ever replaced your original digitizer cable with a new one, that would account for it.)

It's also possible that it's due to a software change in a recent update.

Either way...

- our microphone calibration file has NOT changed

- the results will be totally wonky if the software is run without the calibration file (or with a different one)

3)

I would suggest verifying that you got the speaker settings right in the DIRAC preset.

(Remember that the Speaker Size setting, which you had to change when you added the second sub, is DIFFERENT for each preset.)

4)

The thing where, after a certain point, the numbers go up, but the output does not, is the result of normalization.

Depending on the overall system gain, in certain situations the processor will limit its overall gain to prevent clipping.

This can happen, for example, if a certain correction filter has boosted the gain in a specific band, and the system then lowers its overall gain.

As such this can result in the system playing at a different physical volume level for the same "number setting" when certain filters are selected.

5)

It is possible that the second sub could affect the results for the first one (a sub that is not running is essentially a sort of bass trap).

However, in reality, that effect is usually not significant.

Note, though, that when you have two subs actually playing music, with a mono bass source, the system will reduce the volume on each.

It's going to aim for the OVERALL "subwoofer volume" to be at a certain level...

So, with two subs contributing, it's going to reduce the level of the bass going to each by about 3 dB.

(So they add up to the same "correct" level as before.)

Dec 9, 2020 5:16:11 GMT -5 cybasoul said:

I've been using Dirac Live full for a few years and have been loving it. I recently added a second subwoofer and started experiencing problems when trying to integrate the new 5.2 configuration.

Firstly I noticed that the measurements were definitely not what they were for my first sub, the low lows where no longer there. I thought there was something wrong with the microphone, then I suspected the pro-amp driving the tapped horn subwoofer, but I later realised that the  EmotivaMicCalOA file was not picked up automatically. So the Mic was not calibrated. I then searched the net and came across this EmotivaMicCalOA emotivalounge.proboards.com/thread/56779/calibration-file-xmc-calibrated-microphone. It seems to work fine, the measurements are much better, but not sure if they are what they used to look like before. I presume that problem has been solved? Is that cal file right and generic?

Second problem: after running Dirac, the left main speaker's volume was noticeably low. I went into the settings and found that the Left and Right were both on 0db but the left sounded very low. To correct this I had to bump up the left by over 5db and decreased the right by over 5db. Because of this, I can no longer play the system as loud as I could. When I increase the volume while playing music it gets to the point where the numbers go up, but no audible difference. Basically after 5db the sound's level stays the same, even if I go as high as 10db. And even that 5db is no longer as loud I am used to it when pushing the system hard. I didn't have this issue literally last week, before I ran Dirac again to integrate the new sub.

I tried disabling the new sub and reran Dirac again and the volume issue is still there. This morning I reset the XMC-1 to factory defaults. The speaker levels are all reset to 0db but still the left sounds much softer than the center and right speaker. I reran Dirac again after the factory reset and still the same same.

When switching to Preset 1 or 2 the speaker levels are all fine, its only with Dirac that they are messed up. And it's only from a week ago, they have been fine all along. No new furniture has been introduced, the only thing introduced into the room is the new subwoofer, which is next to the right speaker.

So my main question is: Is possible to basically reset/delete my Dirac profile/settings from the Dirac servers so that I basically start from scratch as if Dirac has never been run on my XMC-1?

I don't know if it matters, but bellow is my setup:
Front mains: B&W 803N (Set as small - 40hz)
Center: B&W HTM2D (Set as small - 50hz)
Surrounds: B&W 865 (Set as small - 60hz)
Dual 10" Tapped horn (The old sub)
B&W DB1 (The new sub)

XMC-1 + Dirac Live Full
Mark Levinson 431
Rotel RB993

[cybasoul]

Dec 9, 2020 14:20:04 GMT -5 KeithL said:

1)

There is no information about your system stored on the Dirac servers....

Other than software updates the software only connects to the servers to verify your license status....

However, on the XMC-1, the Dirac filters remain until they are replaced by new ones, and are NOT deleted with a Factory Reset).

(So you can create situations where a "stale" Dirac filter can end up being used... if you update some but not all of them.)

2)

I'm not sure why Dirac stopped automatically fetching the microphone calibration file.

However, the software actually recognizes the digitizer cable, rather than the microphone itself.

(So, if you've ever replaced your original digitizer cable with a new one, that would account for it.)

It's also possible that it's due to a software change in a recent update.

Either way...

- our microphone calibration file has NOT changed

- the results will be totally wonky if the software is run without the calibration file (or with a different one)

3)

I would suggest verifying that you got the speaker settings right in the DIRAC preset.

(Remember that the Speaker Size setting, which you had to change when you added the second sub, is DIFFERENT for each preset.)

4)

The thing where, after a certain point, the numbers go up, but the output does not, is the result of normalization.

Depending on the overall system gain, in certain situations the processor will limit its overall gain to prevent clipping.

This can happen, for example, if a certain correction filter has boosted the gain in a specific band, and the system then lowers its overall gain.

As such this can result in the system playing at a different physical volume level for the same "number setting" when certain filters are selected.

5)

It is possible that the second sub could affect the results for the first one (a sub that is not running is essentially a sort of bass trap).

However, in reality, that effect is usually not significant.

Note, though, that when you have two subs actually playing music, with a mono bass source, the system will reduce the volume on each.

It's going to aim for the OVERALL "subwoofer volume" to be at a certain level...

So, with two subs contributing, it's going to reduce the level of the bass going to each by about 3 dB.

(So they add up to the same "correct" level as before.)

Thank you for your response and information.

Responding to your points:

2)
I am not sure neither. And yes the effects of that was no bass measured below 40hz, Im sure the other frequencies are messed up too, but the bass section looked obviously wrong. Both the previous version and the one I downloaded last week do not load the calibration file. I manually loaded the calibration file that you posted in the link in my first post. Is it fine that I used that calibration file?

3)
I did configure the speaker settings in Dirac before running it, as per my original post:
Front mains: B&W 803N (Set as small - 40hz)

Center: B&W HTM2D (Set as small - 50hz)

Surrounds: B&W 865 (Set as small - 60hz)

Does adjusting the speaker levels before running Dirac make any difference? I see Dirac sets them back to 0db when its done.
I'll try to rerun Dirac with only two channels without a subwoofer, in full range and see what will happen. But you saying that will not delete the filters on the other channels, correct?

5) I reran Dirac without the second sub and that didn't help. I have the subs configured in Dual Mono.

In any case, I have also contacted Dirac and waiting for their response. In the meantime I will play around with the settings and see if I can get things back to where they were. I am still bothered by the calibration file issue though.

Thanks,
Vuyani

[cybasoul]

So I reloaded my old Dirac project, which I saved when Dirac could pick up the mic's calibration file. The speaker levels are fine. As soon as I load and apply the filters that were created during the calibration file saga things are not ok.

Next I will attempt using my PC to do the readings and see if Windows will pick up the calibration file as my MacBook suddenly decided not to. I just wonder if I am the only person in the forum experiencing this issue.

I am also wondering if the following calibration file is the same as the one pre-installed in the cable's USB:
emotivalounge.proboards.com/thread/56779/calibration-file-xmc-calibrated-microphone

Does 'This is a "90 degree" calibration file...' mean that the pre-installed is not "90 degree"?

[ttocs]

Dec 11, 2020 1:13:43 GMT -5 cybasoul said:

So I reloaded my old Dirac project, which I saved when Dirac could pick up the mic's calibration file. The speaker levels are fine. As soon as I load and apply the filters that were created during the calibration file saga things are not ok.

Next I will attempt using my PC to do the readings and see if Windows will pick up the calibration file as my MacBook suddenly decided not to. I just wonder if I am the only person in the forum experiencing this issue.

I am also wondering if the following calibration file is the same as the one pre-installed in the cable's USB:
emotivalounge.proboards.com/thread/56779/calibration-file-xmc-calibrated-microphone

Does 'This is a "90 degree" calibration file...' mean that the pre-installed is not "90 degree"?

I don't know what you mean by pre-installed. The cal file needs to be manually installed, it doesn't come with Dirac. So when the mic is first attached there is no cal file associated with it.

You may want to uninstall Dirac and reinstall.

I use a MacBook Pro 2015 with Mojave. If I start Dirac before connecting the mic Dirac doesn't like it and there are problems with the Volume Calibration Mic Level setting where it can't be "set" and stay where I put it. So I shut down Dirac and restart with the mic attached and it works. This is with Dirac 3.0.11. Previous versions weren't this sensitive to the mic being connected after starting Dirac.

[cybasoul]

Dec 11, 2020 7:24:36 GMT -5 ttocs said:

Dec 11, 2020 1:13:43 GMT -5 cybasoul said:

So I reloaded my old Dirac project, which I saved when Dirac could pick up the mic's calibration file. The speaker levels are fine. As soon as I load and apply the filters that were created during the calibration file saga things are not ok.

Next I will attempt using my PC to do the readings and see if Windows will pick up the calibration file as my MacBook suddenly decided not to. I just wonder if I am the only person in the forum experiencing this issue.

I am also wondering if the following calibration file is the same as the one pre-installed in the cable's USB:
emotivalounge.proboards.com/thread/56779/calibration-file-xmc-calibrated-microphone

Does 'This is a "90 degree" calibration file...' mean that the pre-installed is not "90 degree"?

I don't know what you mean by pre-installed. The cal file needs to be manually installed, it doesn't come with Dirac. So when the mic is first attached there is no cal file associated with it.

You may want to uninstall Dirac and reinstall.

I use a MacBook Pro 2015 with Mojave. If I start Dirac before connecting the mic Dirac doesn't like it and there are problems with the Volume Calibration Mic Level setting where it can't be "set" and stay where I put it. So I shut down Dirac and restart with the mic attached and it works. This is with Dirac 3.0.11. Previous versions weren't this sensitive to the mic being connected after starting Dirac.

By pre-installed I mean it's loaded in the USB cable that comes with XMC-1.

Anyway, I tried it on the Windows machine and Dirac picked up the calibration file automatically. The measurements are much better. The speaker level issue is no more. I did the readings on the sweet spot only coz the TV room is currently occupied. I'll do a proper calibration later when I'm alone and it's dead quiet. The readings I did were without the second sub, I can't wait to see how the second sub (DB1) measures.

I was surprised to see how low the horn goes when measured with the Windows version. I thought it only went down up 18hz,but it turns out it can go even lower. The BD1 went much lower even with the bad readings.

My wife was complaining about the boominess when I calibrated it with the bad readings. So I hope she too will be happy when it's all done. She said "it sounds like the bass you hear from other houses"

[cybasoul]

Dec 11, 2020 9:29:00 GMT -5 cybasoul said:

Dec 11, 2020 7:24:36 GMT -5 ttocs said:

I don't know what you mean by pre-installed. The cal file needs to be manually installed, it doesn't come with Dirac. So when the mic is first attached there is no cal file associated with it.

You may want to uninstall Dirac and reinstall.

I use a MacBook Pro 2015 with Mojave. If I start Dirac before connecting the mic Dirac doesn't like it and there are problems with the Volume Calibration Mic Level setting where it can't be "set" and stay where I put it. So I shut down Dirac and restart with the mic attached and it works. This is with Dirac 3.0.11. Previous versions weren't this sensitive to the mic being connected after starting Dirac.

By pre-installed I mean it's loaded in the USB cable that comes with XMC-1.

Anyway, I tried it on the Windows machine and Dirac picked up the calibration file automatically. The measurements are much better. The speaker level issue is no more. I did the readings on the sweet spot only coz the TV room is currently occupied. I'll do a proper calibration later when I'm alone and it's dead quiet. The readings I did were without the second sub, I can't wait to see how the second sub (DB1) measures.

I was surprised to see how low the horn goes when measured with the Windows version. I thought it only went down up 18hz,but it turns out it can go even lower. The BD1 went much lower even with the bad readings.

My wife was complaining about the boominess when I calibrated it with the bad readings. So I hope she too will be happy when it's all done. She said "it sounds like the bass you hear from other houses"

Thank you all for you contributions.

[ttocs]

Dec 11, 2020 9:29:00 GMT -5 cybasoul said:

Dec 11, 2020 7:24:36 GMT -5 ttocs said:

I don't know what you mean by pre-installed. The cal file needs to be manually installed, it doesn't come with Dirac. So when the mic is first attached there is no cal file associated with it.

You may want to uninstall Dirac and reinstall.

I use a MacBook Pro 2015 with Mojave. If I start Dirac before connecting the mic Dirac doesn't like it and there are problems with the Volume Calibration Mic Level setting where it can't be "set" and stay where I put it. So I shut down Dirac and restart with the mic attached and it works. This is with Dirac 3.0.11. Previous versions weren't this sensitive to the mic being connected after starting Dirac.

By pre-installed I mean it's loaded in the USB cable that comes with XMC-1.

I was surprised to see how low the horn goes when measured with the Windows version. I thought it only went down up 18hz,but it turns out it can go even lower. The BD1 went much lower even with the bad readings. 

Ah, I see. There's no file within the EMM-1 mic or cable. So you must've installed the cal file previously for Dirac to "pickup" on it.

In-room my speakers and subs measure lower than spec at the same tolerance or better. I think it's pretty common for that to happen, though not every room is "friendly" and good measurements are tied to good speaker placement, so it's not 100%. My subs are not low frequency monsters, even so, they do measure a few Hz lower than they're spec'd at, but I can make the frequency response is worse by +15Hz just by moving them 6 feet. So instead of just under 20Hz the response is raised to over the middle 30Hz range. Location, Location, Location.

[geebo]

Dec 11, 2020 11:09:28 GMT -5 ttocs said:

Dec 11, 2020 9:29:00 GMT -5 cybasoul said:

By pre-installed I mean it's loaded in the USB cable that comes with XMC-1.

I was surprised to see how low the horn goes when measured with the Windows version. I thought it only went down up 18hz,but it turns out it can go even lower. The BD1 went much lower even with the bad readings. 

Ah, I see. There's no file within the EMM-1 mic or cable. So you must've installed the cal file previously for Dirac to "pickup" on it.

In-room my speakers and subs measure lower than spec at the same tolerance or better. I think it's pretty common for that to happen, though not every room is "friendly" and good measurements are tied to good speaker placement, so it's not 100%. My subs are not low frequency monsters, even so, they do measure a few Hz lower than they're spec'd at, but I can make the frequency response is worse by +15Hz just by moving them 6 feet. So instead of just under 20Hz the response is raised to over the middle 30Hz range. Location, Location, Location.

Actually the non-full version of Dirac for the XMC-1 copies the cal file to the proper place when you run the Dirac program. It was specific to the XMC-1 and the cal file part was transparent to the user. But there was no file in the cable.