ttocs
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Post by ttocs on Dec 18, 2020 12:40:09 GMT -5
It looks like the Vizio E70-F3 4k TV is HDMI 2.0.
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cawgijoe
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Post by cawgijoe on Dec 18, 2020 12:56:51 GMT -5
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Post by dkaudio on Dec 18, 2020 13:01:59 GMT -5
I'm using HDMI input 2 on the TV now...kind of stinks because I use ARC for OTA viewing which is only 1, oh well. Game low latency and film mode on the TV are off. Blu-ray player is not M2 so it has no DV. From the player, only HDMI 1 is being used, not HDMI 2. Cables are fully inserted, I even bought new 4k certified cables thinking that may have been the issue. Discs I have tried: John Wick 3 4k UHD, rented so not sure what format. Planet Earth Blu-ray (pictures taken from this disc), just says video format High Definition 1080i. Black Hawk Down 4k UHD, 2160p UHD 2.40:1 HDR 10. XMC-2 shows 4:4:4 12bitMan, this really is baffling. So here's something, when I set my tv HDMI inputs to Standard, the XMC-2 reports a lower incoming color depth because the devices are sensing the capability of the tv. But with your setup playing Black Hawk Down, the XMC-2 is reporting a color depth your tv is not capable of displaying - according to the chart from Vizio, although maybe at the slower frame rate it can display 12bit 4:4:4. ? ? ? Do both the tv and the player have the latest firmwares? Try setting the Full UHD Color to OFF and see if anything looks different, whether it's the same, better, or worse. I don't know what else to suggest. Both devices are fully up to date. Turning full UHD Color off on the TV results in the same issue. This is very weird. So, the TV without going through the XMC-2 is displaying the same picture issue as it was when going through the XMC-2....any chance you know someone who can bring their 4K bluray player over? Yes, without the XMC-2 in the chain, I have the same issue. I own two of these Sony Blu-ray players, manufactured a year apart, and both result in the same issue on the TV. Not to oversimplfy... but it looks like what I would call an issue with actually decoding the image. (It looks like what happens when a computer with insufficient power tries to decode a complex video stream.) (h.265 video streams, which are used for 4k UHD content, especially at higher bit rates, require a LOT of processing power to decode properly.)
I suspect that it may be the TV's fault. (The TV should only negotiate to receive video formats that it can actually support.)
It looks like the TV is negotiating to accept a video stream that requires a lot of processing power to decode properly... Then "when the rubber hits the road" it lacks the processing power to handle the signal properly... If that's the case then the solution may to manually configure the source to limit itself to an easier to decode video signal. I would try playing an ordinary Blu-Ray disc... and configuring the player NOT to upscale or up-sample it. A normal Blu-Ray disc is recorded at 1080p, 30 FPS, and chroma 4:2:0 . That is a setting that ALL normal HD TVs should be able to handle properly. Then, if that looks good, start trying higher resolutions and sample rates.
(However, if you have long-ish cables, I would also try a nice short two meter cable... just to rule that out as a contributing factor.  ) My planet Earth Blu-ray is a standard Blu-ray, not UHD. I tried setting the player to a static output of 1080p with no upscaling and same issue! XMC displayed 1080p/24 12bit 4:4:4 SDR, TV info only said 1080p. I'm using one 3' HDMI from player to XMC-2 and a 10' HDMI from XMC-2 output to TV input. I am running out of 4k certified cables to test but bypassed the XMC-2 and went straight to TV input with a 3' and problem went away!!! Is the issue really my 10' cable? I bought two monoprice 4k certified 10' 18gbps to play with, I can't believe that is the issue! How do I get around that? |
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Post by garbulky on Dec 18, 2020 13:18:20 GMT -5
Have you updated your tv's firmware? And yes try a short HDMI cable.
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ttocs
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I always have a wonderful time, wherever I am, whomever I'm with. (Elwood P Dowd)
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Post by ttocs on Dec 18, 2020 13:18:41 GMT -5
I'm using one 3' HDMI from player to XMC-2 and a 10' HDMI from XMC-2 output to TV input. I am running out of 4k certified cables to test but bypassed the XMC-2 and went straight to TV input with a 3' and problem went away!!! Is the issue really my 10' cable? I bought two monoprice 4k certified 10' 18gbps to play with, I can't believe that is the issue! How do I get around that? yep. Some work, some don't. |
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Post by novisnick on Dec 18, 2020 13:50:31 GMT -5
I'm using one 3' HDMI from player to XMC-2 and a 10' HDMI from XMC-2 output to TV input. I am running out of 4k certified cables to test but bypassed the XMC-2 and went straight to TV input with a 3' and problem went away!!! Is the issue really my 10' cable? I bought two monoprice 4k certified 10' 18gbps to play with, I can't believe that is the issue! How do I get around that? yep. Some work, some don't. |
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Post by doc1963 on Dec 18, 2020 13:52:56 GMT -5
I'll take one last shot at this... In the picture you've shown of the settings of your X800, I can see that you have the " YCbCr/RGB (HDMI)" set to " Auto". Open that setting and manually change it to " YCbCr (4:2:2)" and see if that helps. That should be a bit easier on a 10' cable... |
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Post by dkaudio on Dec 18, 2020 14:11:06 GMT -5
I'll take one last shot at this... In the picture you've shown of the settings of your X800, I can see that you have the " YCbCr/RGB (HDMI)" set to " Auto". Open that setting and manually change it to " YCbCr (4:2:2)" and see if that helps. That should be a bit easier on a 10' cable... Yes, I tried 4:2:2 with the same results. Also, keep in mind, I was using a Monoprice certified 4k 10' cable originally. I ordered a new 10' Monoprice certified 4k cable and it does the same thing (these were ordered at least 1.5 years apart). I am running in the wall but 110v is >10" away. Should I try this to help reject noise? I might be able to get away with 8' but it would be tight. www.monoprice.com/product?p_id=4958I was using these: www.monoprice.com/product?p_id=15427 |
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Post by doc1963 on Dec 18, 2020 14:25:37 GMT -5
I'll take one last shot at this... In the picture you've shown of the settings of your X800, I can see that you have the " YCbCr/RGB (HDMI)" set to " Auto". Open that setting and manually change it to " YCbCr (4:2:2)" and see if that helps. That should be a bit easier on a 10' cable... Yes, I tried 4:2:2 with the same results. Also, keep in mind, I was using a Monoprice certified 4k 10' cable originally. I ordered a new 10' Monoprice certified 4k cable and it does the same thing (these were ordered at least 1.5 years apart). I am running in the wall but 110v is >10" away. Should I try this to help reject noise? I might be able to get away with 8' but it would be tight. www.monoprice.com/product?p_id=4958The cable you've linked doesn't appear to be a "Certified Premium" and I wouldn't recommend buying it. Try THIS instead. With any conventional HDMI cable intended to be used anywhere in the 4K UHD chain (and especially longer cabled used between the AVP/AVR and the display), make sure you look for this HDMI certification label...  |
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cawgijoe
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Post by cawgijoe on Dec 18, 2020 14:49:11 GMT -5
I have several of Monoprice's 4K Premium Certified HDMI cables but my longest is 6 ft. They work without issue. Monoprice does have an 8K cable that is 8 ft long (31229) for about $19. It's not certified, but might be worth trying due to the increased bandwidth. Sounds like you may have narrowed it down to a cable, which is better than a TV or 4K player. Crutchfield has a 10ft Audioquest Pearl 48 cable for $69.95 which is a good price for Audioquest. It gets you to 10ft and supports the higher bandwidth. The nice part about Crutchfield is you can return it if it doesn't work without issue. www.crutchfield.com/p_703PL483M/AudioQuest-Pearl-48-3-meters-10-feet.html |
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Post by dkaudio on Dec 18, 2020 15:15:03 GMT -5
Ok, I pulled the Monoprice 10' 4k certified cable out of the wall and hooked it up directly, the issue is still there. So, that means it is not a bunch of EMI in the wall that is introducing these issues...the issue is with the 10' Monoprice 4k certified cable itself (with the HDMI certification logo). I have two of these cables and both do it! I guess my initial hunch with the issue being cables was correct, I just have to try a different brand I guess. Yes, I tried 4:2:2 with the same results. Also, keep in mind, I was using a Monoprice certified 4k 10' cable originally. I ordered a new 10' Monoprice certified 4k cable and it does the same thing (these were ordered at least 1.5 years apart). I am running in the wall but 110v is >10" away. Should I try this to help reject noise? I might be able to get away with 8' but it would be tight. www.monoprice.com/product?p_id=4958The cable you've linked doesn't appear to be a "Certified Premium" and I wouldn't recommend buying it. Try THIS instead. With any conventional HDMI cable intended to be used anywhere in the 4K UHD chain (and especially longer cabled used between the AVP/AVR and the display), make sure you look for this HDMI certification label... View AttachmentWhat you linked to is the exact certified cable that I am using and is causing the issues. |
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Post by davidl81 on Dec 18, 2020 15:15:19 GMT -5
Bear with me here please. There's a few things to check. It looks to me like a color depth issue, with no fine gradation of color, just big color blocks all the same. Some call it "banding". I contend that there are no missing pixels, just messed up color. You posted a photo of what I initially thought was what the TV was reporting, but in fact that is what the player is Outputting. I know this because that's the exact same menu as my X700, and mine is set to Auto for Output Video Resolution and works fine. Please post a photo of the Info being reported by the TV. Also, please post what the TV's HDMI Inputs are set to, I need the exact wording so I can find more info on this because the manual, like most manuals these days, sucks (technical term, meaning: Useless (almost), non-helpful, bag of garbage). Is your player the Sony UBP-X800M2? (This model is DV compatible according to what I've read from Sony.) If so, did you update the firmware for Dolby Vision compatibility? What format is the disc in the photos you posted? HDR-10 or Dolby Vision? It helps to know the source info. From the Sony player, there is only one HDMI cable connected to the Out-1 output which carries Video/Audio, and no HDMI cable connected to the "Out-2 For Audio", correct? And that cable is plugged in ALL THE WAY into which HDMI Input on the TV is being used? I don't think it matters which one in this case, but good to know. If using the ARC input, try a different one or make sure ARC is off in the TV settings, even if only for diagnosis, because who knows what it might be doing? The HDMI inputs on the TV are rated at: 2160p@60fps. 4:4:4, 8-bit 2160p@60fps, 4:2:2, 12-bit 2160p@60fps, 4:2:0, 12-bit When the player is connected directly to the TV, does the TV report the same color depth as the processor reported? Is the TV set to any sort of "gaming mode"? If so, turn it OFF, this might increase the frame rate causing the color depth to suffer (wild guess here). What video mode is the TV set for? My tv is rated differently than yours, but I think this is still a valid point to make. When I change the HDMI Input settings from "Enhanced" to "Standard", the result is less color depth. Notice the difference in this composite image. View AttachmentSo when yours shows 4:4:4 SDR, that's not HDR. The XMC-2 is saying it's 12bit, but your TV can't show 12bit 4:4:4 color, so it's gotta be 8bit that's showing up. edit: One last thing. In photos of the back of your tv it shows "Best" printed above HDMI-2 input. If that is the case, that's the input I would use. I'm using HDMI input 2 on the TV now...kind of stinks because I use ARC for OTA viewing which is only 1, oh well. Game low latency and film mode on the TV are off. Blu-ray player is not M2 so it has no DV. From the player, only HDMI 1 is being used, not HDMI 2. Cables are fully inserted, I even bought new 4k certified cables thinking that may have been the issue. Discs I have tried: John Wick 3 4k UHD, rented so not sure what format. Planet Earth Blu-ray (pictures taken from this disc), just says video format High Definition 1080i. Black Hawk Down 4k UHD, 2160p UHD 2.40:1 HDR 10. XMC-2 shows 4:4:4 12bit Picture of what the TV is receiving, not much info, I know. View AttachmentPicture of TV HDMI 2 input settings View AttachmentPicture of TV video settings View Attachment2 Pictures of Blu-ray player video settings View AttachmentView AttachmentOP, If I am looking at your manual correctly the only HDMI 2.0 input your TV has is input 1. (Correction, all inputs are HDMI 2.0, but only input 1 can do HDR 4:4:4, this is very likely the issue you are having) All other inputs are HDMI 1.4 which can do 4k, but not HDR. If you are sending a 4k HDR signal into input 2 I suspect you would get the errors you are seeing now. So your choices seem to be use input 1 (but I think lose ARC maybe) or use input 2, but turn HDR off on the 4k player. All HDMI are HDMI version 2.0 and HDCP 2.2. HDMI 1 has a 600Mhz pixel clock rate: 2160p@60fps, 4:4:4, 8-bit and 2160p@60fos, 4:2:2, 12-bit. HDMI 2-4 have a 340MHz pixel clock rate: 2160p@60fps 4:2:0. 8-bit.All HDMI are HDMI version 2.0 and HDCP 2.2. HDMI 1 has a 600Mhz pixel clock rate: 2160p@60fps, 4:4:4, 8-bit and 2160p@60fos, 4:2:2, 12-bit. HDMI 2-4 have a 340MHz pixel clock rate: 2160p@60fps 4:2:0. 8-bit. |
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Post by dkaudio on Dec 18, 2020 16:10:55 GMT -5
I'm using HDMI input 2 on the TV now...kind of stinks because I use ARC for OTA viewing which is only 1, oh well. Game low latency and film mode on the TV are off. Blu-ray player is not M2 so it has no DV. From the player, only HDMI 1 is being used, not HDMI 2. Cables are fully inserted, I even bought new 4k certified cables thinking that may have been the issue. Discs I have tried: John Wick 3 4k UHD, rented so not sure what format. Planet Earth Blu-ray (pictures taken from this disc), just says video format High Definition 1080i. Black Hawk Down 4k UHD, 2160p UHD 2.40:1 HDR 10. XMC-2 shows 4:4:4 12bit Picture of what the TV is receiving, not much info, I know. View AttachmentPicture of TV HDMI 2 input settings View AttachmentPicture of TV video settings View Attachment2 Pictures of Blu-ray player video settings View AttachmentView AttachmentOP, If I am looking at your manual correctly the only HDMI 2.0 input your TV has is input 1. (Correction, all inputs are HDMI 2.0, but only input 1 can do HDR 4:4:4, this is very likely the issue you are having) All other inputs are HDMI 1.4 which can do 4k, but not HDR. If you are sending a 4k HDR signal into input 2 I suspect you would get the errors you are seeing now. So your choices seem to be use input 1 (but I think lose ARC maybe) or use input 2, but turn HDR off on the 4k player. All HDMI are HDMI version 2.0 and HDCP 2.2. HDMI 1 has a 600Mhz pixel clock rate: 2160p@60fps, 4:4:4, 8-bit and 2160p@60fos, 4:2:2, 12-bit. HDMI 2-4 have a 340MHz pixel clock rate: 2160p@60fps 4:2:0. 8-bit.All HDMI are HDMI version 2.0 and HDCP 2.2. HDMI 1 has a 600Mhz pixel clock rate: 2160p@60fps, 4:4:4, 8-bit and 2160p@60fos, 4:2:2, 12-bit. HDMI 2-4 have a 340MHz pixel clock rate: 2160p@60fps 4:2:0. 8-bit. Thanks for the information, on the TV itself, HDMI 1 in labeled "ARC". HDMI 2 is labeled "Best". I have tried both and currently have it on input 2. |
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cawgijoe
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Post by cawgijoe on Dec 18, 2020 16:35:09 GMT -5
OP, If I am looking at your manual correctly the only HDMI 2.0 input your TV has is input 1. (Correction, all inputs are HDMI 2.0, but only input 1 can do HDR 4:4:4, this is very likely the issue you are having) All other inputs are HDMI 1.4 which can do 4k, but not HDR. If you are sending a 4k HDR signal into input 2 I suspect you would get the errors you are seeing now. So your choices seem to be use input 1 (but I think lose ARC maybe) or use input 2, but turn HDR off on the 4k player. All HDMI are HDMI version 2.0 and HDCP 2.2. HDMI 1 has a 600Mhz pixel clock rate: 2160p@60fps, 4:4:4, 8-bit and 2160p@60fos, 4:2:2, 12-bit. HDMI 2-4 have a 340MHz pixel clock rate: 2160p@60fps 4:2:0. 8-bit.All HDMI are HDMI version 2.0 and HDCP 2.2. HDMI 1 has a 600Mhz pixel clock rate: 2160p@60fps, 4:4:4, 8-bit and 2160p@60fos, 4:2:2, 12-bit. HDMI 2-4 have a 340MHz pixel clock rate: 2160p@60fps 4:2:0. 8-bit. Thanks for the information, on the TV itself, HDMI 1 in labeled "ARC". HDMI 2 is labeled "Best". I have tried both and currently have it on input 2. I got this off the AVSForum....someone had contacted Vizio: " HDMI (Best) simply means that HDMI is the best way to connect your source and it applies to all the HDMI connections. Duh. The way they labelled it simply confusing. The UHD switch can only be turned on when there is a UHD source connected to HDMI-1. When I was trying to turn it on I had the UHD source connected to HDMI-2 because of the "BEST" mark, that is why I was unable to turn it on. When I connected by source to HDMI-1 I was able to turn it on." |
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Post by dkaudio on Dec 18, 2020 17:05:22 GMT -5
Thanks for the information, on the TV itself, HDMI 1 in labeled "ARC". HDMI 2 is labeled "Best". I have tried both and currently have it on input 2. I got this off the AVSForum....someone had contacted Vizio: " HDMI (Best) simply means that HDMI is the best way to connect your source and it applies to all the HDMI connections. Duh. The way they labelled it simply confusing. The UHD switch can only be turned on when there is a UHD source connected to HDMI-1. When I was trying to turn it on I had the UHD source connected to HDMI-2 because of the "BEST" mark, that is why I was unable to turn it on. When I connected by source to HDMI-1 I was able to turn it on." Thanks, those AVS owner threads get so long it is difficult to find anything useful in without spending hours reading. I will move it back to input 1 where it originally was. Now, you guys are going to think I'm crazy. I own three of the Sony UBP-X800's. I got them used but for a good price so I bought all three. My intention was one for my upstairs living room (the room of concern), one for my downstairs living room, and one for my stereo listening area I'm attempting to setup since they play SACD and DVDA. I tried the 3rd unit with the Monoprice cables as originally installed and it works. I'm just at a complete loss here. Why would two of the Sony players have the blocky artifacts and one looks fine? I checked their settings making sure they matched. I really hope I don't have two dud players, all play DVD fine. |
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Post by dkaudio on Dec 19, 2020 0:10:42 GMT -5
Well, I spent all night moving players, moving TV's, changing cables (no processors or receivers in the chain when testing). It seems I have two faulty Sony UBP-X800's, I cannot believe this. All are less than 2 years old of light residential use.
One of the players will not play discs Blu-Rays or UHD's, I can sometimes get a title screen to come up but then nothing after that, just a blank screen. I cannot get this one to connect to a WiFi network either. I did run an ethernet cable direct to it to verify the firmware was up to date, it was.
The other player has the issue that started this thread, bad pixilation and artifacts on Blu-rays and UHD's. It comes in as blotches and/or chunks of blocky artifacts constantly dancing around the image.
Well, this stinks. Thank you everyone for the tips, troubleshooting and assistance.
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Post by novisnick on Dec 19, 2020 1:17:36 GMT -5
Well, I spent all night moving players, moving TV's, changing cables (no processors or receivers in the chain when testing). It seems I have two faulty Sony UBP-X800's, I cannot believe this. All are less than 2 years old of light residential use. One of the players will not play discs Blu-Rays or UHD's, I can sometimes get a title screen to come up but then nothing after that, just a blank screen. I cannot get this one to connect to a WiFi network either. I did run an ethernet cable direct to it to verify the firmware was up to date, it was. The other player has the issue that started this thread, bad pixilation and artifacts on Blu-rays and UHD's. It comes in as blotches and/or chunks of blocky artifacts constantly dancing around the image. Well, this stinks. Thank you everyone for the tips, troubleshooting and assistance. So sorry to her of all of these troubles and I’m so very happy that you’ve found the route of all the frustration! Good luck!🍀👍 |
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