Lsc
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Post by Lsc on Jan 17, 2021 23:36:35 GMT -5
Well this was a fun and eye opening experience.
My buddy and I have been going back and forth via text about what’s better. I was confident that my XMC2 with Dirac can take on his BAT VK33se / Denafrips Terminator. Well today he has enough and brought his BAT and DAC over for a little head to head comparison. Just a quick note that this was not a scientific controlled test where we painstakingly level matched etc. It was a fun, casual comparison where we tried to see if there were some obvious differences.
3rd place - XMC2 w Dirac. The XMC2 I feel is still an outstanding pre/pro and has been a great front end in my system. Until today, I have thoroughly enjoyed the sound quality of my system and I attributed the majority of the sound quality difference in his system with the fact that he has the Salon2 and I have the F228Be. Listening to the other combinations actually was a blessing in disguise in that I didn’t know that my F228Be was that good of a speaker.
2nd place - XMC2 with Denafrips Terminator. Adding the Terminator, the sound quality definitely improved. This is a great DAC and I’d love to have this in my system. Everything is a little crisper and the imaging is improved etc.
1st place - BAT with the Denafrips Terminator. The biggest difference was the addition of this preamp. I didn’t know my F228Be were this good. Everything was elevated to a whole new level. My buddy kept saying that the XMC2 can’t keep up with the BAT and he was right.
What does this all mean to me? Well the claim that the XMC2 is a great surround processor as well as a high end 2 channel preamp is right to a certain extent. I know it’s probably not fair to compare a $3000 preamp/processor to a $10,000 tube preamp and a $4500 DAC and I agree, it’s not fair. The XMC2 was humbled and it showed me that I’m not maximizing the performance out of my F228Be with the XMC2. Still, I can live with the overall performance w the XMC2 as it still generates a great sound. But now I have to look for a 2 ch solution.
Yes Dirac is great but this showed there is only so much Dirac can do.
Maybe looking at an all in one solution like the Benchmark DAC3.
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Post by ttocs on Jan 18, 2021 0:05:10 GMT -5
It's not really unfair. The XMC-2 holds its own in SQ above its price range. Just like my little tube amps beat out my SS that cost triple and mono SS amps that cost 5 times more.
I say try anything and everything you can to find that magic combination, regardless of cost. All's fair in dB and Hz.
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Lsc
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Posts: 3,344
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Post by Lsc on Jan 18, 2021 1:02:35 GMT -5
It's not really unfair. The XMC-2 holds its own in SQ above its price range. Just like my little tube amps beat out my SS that cost triple and mono SS amps that cost 5 times more. I say try anything and everything you can to find that magic combination, regardless of cost. All's fair in dB and Hz. Thankfully my ears have adjusted back to my XMC2. That’s interesting about your tube amp. My buddy was essentially saying same speakers and same amp, the electronics can make a noticeable difference. You are saying even the amp is a factor too...come on man, that’s another component 😂!!! |
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Post by ttocs on Jan 18, 2021 2:00:56 GMT -5
It's not really unfair. The XMC-2 holds its own in SQ above its price range. Just like my little tube amps beat out my SS that cost triple and mono SS amps that cost 5 times more. I say try anything and everything you can to find that magic combination, regardless of cost. All's fair in dB and Hz. Thankfully my ears have adjusted back to my XMC2. That’s interesting about your tube amp. My buddy was essentially saying same speakers and same amp, the electronics can make a noticeable difference. You are saying even the amp is a factor too...come on man, that’s another component 😂!!! . When I got my Krell amp it took most of a year to find a pre that the Krell liked that I could afford. I was all set to buy the then top Marantz and the dealer let me borrow one off the shelf for the weekend, it was not a good match. Then on a whim and recommendation from a friend, I bought the Emotiva UMC-200 to try out, and it worked great! although I preferred the DAC in my CD player. Later that year I bought the XMC-1 and liked it and its DACS better. 4 years after that I got the Bob Latino tube amps and stopped looking at amps and speakers. And last year I got the XMC-2. Each step has been forward. Friends and acquaintances have brought over amps because they wanted to try them with my speakers but they've all been disappointing. The Bob Latino amps are less than $3k for a built pair of monos with tubes, but I bought the kits and had some extra fun. The amps are not automatic anything. Toggle switch to turn them on. So it's just your good 'ole basic great sound. I watched a long zoom conference call from a group of guys who each checked out the same really nice speakers/amps/pre and were mixed on their conclusions. But the take-away for me was that a happy "mismatch" of brands was the favorite combo of one of the reviewers. The components were Wilson speakers, McIntosh amps/pre, and D'Agostino amps/pre. The happy mismatch that sounded best was the D'Agostino amps with McIntosh pre which is a lot less money. But the D'Agostino pre with McIntosh amps was not good he said. |
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Post by rhale64 on Jan 21, 2021 0:40:01 GMT -5
lsc I will keep this short but we have been pming . My RMC1l with Dirac os really amazing with the good Holo Audio Spring2 2 DAC. Like I said I had the BAT VK40SE and compared it to my RMC1 that I had previous to the 1l and it was basically a wash. I sold the BAT and kept the RMC1. But I didn't have this dac I have now then. I was basically using my OPPO 105 and I had the RMC1 I was using the USB DAC input on the 105 either going analog out to the RMC1 or the BAT. I level matched and liked some things about the RMC and some about the BAT.
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Post by vcautokid on Jan 21, 2021 4:52:11 GMT -5
Depending how what and where you are, you can do very all around. BAT and Denafrips have to be incredible. Look at your financial commitment. Also their refinement and isolation and optimization. Fewer compromises as you move up in the audio ladder. For me I like going directions that say more can have the fun I have versus the chosen few with the means. Years ago I would go for a BAT and Denifrips. But priorities change and getting really good for much less is where I live now. I don't care if someone else approves the choices I made honestly. It is a powerful personal journey. Choices are plentiful and one direction only is never the case. I think the Benchmark would be excellent too. DACs are so good today. Preamplifiers a plenty. Tube or Solid State. Active or passive stage, you really can get the combination you want. Grand times.
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Lsc
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Posts: 3,344
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Post by Lsc on Jan 21, 2021 11:21:34 GMT -5
Depending how what and where you are, you can do very all around. BAT and Denafrips have to be incredible. Look at your financial commitment. Also their refinement and isolation and optimization. Fewer compromises as you move up in the audio ladder. For me I like going directions that say more can have the fun I have versus the chosen few with the means. Years ago I would go for a BAT and Denifrips. But priorities change and getting really good for much less is where I live now. I don't care if someone else approves the choices I made honestly. It is a powerful personal journey. Choices are plentiful and one direction only is never the case. I think the Benchmark would be excellent too. DACs are so good today. Preamplifiers a plenty. Tube or Solid State. Active or passive stage, you really can get the combination you want. Grand times. Based on rhale64 ‘s feedback and yours, it doesn’t make sense for me to get anything until i feel like listening to my current setup isn’t “good enough” and that’s not the case. After rerunning Dirac - which is quite fickle - I was able to obtain a better soundstage and better bass integration with the sub. So I am able to squeeze out some of the performance improvements I noticed out of my speakers when I used my buddy’s preamp and DAC. Back to my original plan of sticking with the XMC2 for 3-5 more years (or until I get upgraitis) 😊 |
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Post by audiobill on Jan 21, 2021 14:05:49 GMT -5
I will say that Victor Khomenko, ex USSR space program engineer and head of Research at Hewlett Packard, builds BAT equipment to milspec and uses capacitors, etc of the very highest quality. Engineered and built to the very highest standards, along with McIntosh and Audio Research. Expensive, yes most definitely, but these are aspirational products of heirloom quality.
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Post by rogerlons on Jan 27, 2021 16:53:05 GMT -5
lsc, I agree with you that Dirac 3 seems fickle. I was able to get a CSL-calibrated UMIK-1 and it made a significant difference vs the supplied mic from Emotiva... But I will say this - when you get it right, it works!
And you can't underestimate the DAC side of the equation. I still use the Oppo 205 - balanced - for critical listening. I just prefer the sound of the SABRE DACs over the Veritas. But that's getting pretty picky. :-)
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