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Post by emonut on Feb 7, 2021 20:26:11 GMT -5
hey guys,
I have Dirac setup for XMC-2 and while the sound is good for movie, it is off center when listening / testing stereo song / material. The voice just keeps much louder on the front right channel.
I have run several measurements including wide listening area, focus, tight spot etc... and had the very same result with louder right channel.
Listening position is spot on and in the middle of left and right.
Is there anyway to adjust / quick fix for this ?
Cheers
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Post by ttocs on Feb 7, 2021 21:12:06 GMT -5
hey guys,
I have Dirac setup for XMC-2 and while the sound is good for movie, it is off center when listening / testing stereo song / material. The voice just keeps much louder on the front right channel.
I have run several measurements including wide listening area, focus, tight spot etc... and had the very same result with louder right channel.
Listening position is spot on and in the middle of left and right.
Is there anyway to adjust / quick fix for this ?
Cheers
The quick fix is to use Menu:: Setup:: Speakers:: Preset 1/2:: Levels and lower the Right channel until you like it. My system has been consistent with which channel is louder, and it's the Left, so I lowered it 1.5dB, it's sometimes a little less. But the last couple Dirac runs I did last week were perfect. The only item that changed was adding an absorption panel to the right of the MLP at the first reflection for the Front Left speaker. I can't keep it there all the time because the entire right wall is windows, 22' long and floor to cathedral ceiling, so it's very noticeably bad looking. Now, my speakers are directional so "I" don't hear any problem, but Dirac must be hearing something that confuses it. This is just speculating because it's only been the last two runs, but just the fact that it's so perfect is what is so unusual. I've had a panel in that spot in the past, but like I say, it's not a good spot for panel on a day to day basis. |
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Post by jeffrey40sw on Feb 9, 2021 15:39:49 GMT -5
Have you verified in fact that one side is actually louder by measuring it with something? I ask because a slight time delay can also change the center image as well. If you leave both speakers at the same level and then change one with the distance setting the image will shift too just like making one louder. I would have a hard time believing any good calibration system could not nail volume levels spot on. However, getting a delay/distance setting slightly wrong on one speaker seems much more plausible. Just my two cents.
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Post by phantom3rdchannel on Feb 15, 2021 16:13:14 GMT -5
Have you verified in fact that one side is actually louder by measuring it with something? I ask because a slight time delay can also change the center image as well. If you leave both speakers at the same level and then change one with the distance setting the image will shift too just like making one louder. I would have a hard time believing any good calibration system could not nail volume levels spot on. However, getting a delay/distance setting slightly wrong on one speaker seems much more plausible. Just my two cents. I reported a similar DIRAC problem in January in the DIRAC thread where my center image for Stereo 2.0 or 2.1 is skewed to the right. I received a lot of feedback, but I did not see this suggestion. I have spent a lot of time since January listening to the system and trying to figure out exactly what is happening. I am new to the Emotiva family with a recently purchased XMC-2 and XPA 9 setup, so it has been challenging to know if its Dirac, the XMC-2, or me that is causing the problem. I should mention that with the User filter engaged (all filters set to zero) I have a perfect center image and very nice wide sound stage with Stereo, Direct or Reference Stereo modes engaged for analog or digital inputs. What I have realized is that, with the Dirac filter engaged the image is not just skewed to the right. Adjusting the levels does not fix it. The sound that should be in the center like the singer's voice is clearly coming from the right. Some instruments are coming from the left and the center is like a black hole. There is nothing in the center. Much like what you would get if the speakers were wired out of phase. Adjusting the levels does not fix this, but your suggestion here to adjust the distance is interesting. I was under the impression that the distance controls had no effect on the Dirac enhanced signal.but if they do, then this might just be the solution. If Dirac miscalculated the distance then perhaps there is a phase issue that is causing this very strange result. I am going to try adjusting the distance of the right and/or left speaker a little later today, I will report back here to let you all know if it helped. I have my fingers crossed. |
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Post by jeffrey40sw on Feb 15, 2021 17:07:55 GMT -5
You may also be a candidate for the UMIK-1 or 2 mic. I had the off center image as you describe and that also went away with the new mic.
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Post by ausman on Feb 15, 2021 20:10:45 GMT -5
it depends on the source material you are listening too, there issues that i know of to cause low noise connection into speaker not being quite there same from amp end..
what are you hearing out of main right and left..
smell the amp to make sure you haven't fried it
and smell the actual speaker..
your issue is likely to be poor termination of the speaker cable i have had this same issue..
may be it is a software issue or may be a connection issue to the speaker
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Post by fbczar on Feb 16, 2021 1:33:21 GMT -5
hey guys,
I have Dirac setup for XMC-2 and while the sound is good for movie, it is off center when listening / testing stereo song / material. The voice just keeps much louder on the front right channel.
I have run several measurements including wide listening area, focus, tight spot etc... and had the very same result with louder right channel.
Listening position is spot on and in the middle of left and right.
Is there anyway to adjust / quick fix for this ?
Take a look at the Dirac curve relative to each of your main left and right speakers. If there was a significant difference in output between the two at any frequency in the mid range is possible the Dirac curve correction was not able to make the levels “match”. For instance, you might have a dip in one speaker of 5db and a dip in the other of 10db at the same frequency range. It is likely Dirac could correct the 5db dip, but fall short of full correction, leaving an imbalance and an off center image. When that happens you can drop the entire curve a few db to compensate. Can you post the Dirac curve that shows before and after for the two speakers? |
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Post by phantom3rdchannel on Feb 16, 2021 12:01:31 GMT -5
Have you verified in fact that one side is actually louder by measuring it with something? I ask because a slight time delay can also change the center image as well. If you leave both speakers at the same level and then change one with the distance setting the image will shift too just like making one louder. I would have a hard time believing any good calibration system could not nail volume levels spot on. However, getting a delay/distance setting slightly wrong on one speaker seems much more plausible. Just my two cents. I reported a similar DIRAC problem in January in the DIRAC thread where my center image for Stereo 2.0 or 2.1 is skewed to the right. I received a lot of feedback, but I did not see this suggestion. I have spent a lot of time since January listening to the system and trying to figure out exactly what is happening. I am new to the Emotiva family with a recently purchased XMC-2 and XPA 9 setup, so it has been challenging to know if its Dirac, the XMC-2, or me that is causing the problem. I should mention that with the User filter engaged (all filters set to zero) I have a perfect center image and very nice wide sound stage with Stereo, Direct or Reference Stereo modes engaged for analog or digital inputs. What I have realized is that, with the Dirac filter engaged the image is not just skewed to the right. Adjusting the levels does not fix it. The sound that should be in the center like the singer's voice is clearly coming from the right. Some instruments are coming from the left and the center is like a black hole. There is nothing in the center. Much like what you would get if the speakers were wired out of phase. Adjusting the levels does not fix this, but your suggestion here to adjust the distance is interesting. I was under the impression that the distance controls had no effect on the Dirac enhanced signal.but if they do, then this might just be the solution. If Dirac miscalculated the distance then perhaps there is a phase issue that is causing this very strange result. I am going to try adjusting the distance of the right and/or left speaker a little later today, I will report back here to let you all know if it helped. I have my fingers crossed. OK, I tried this last night, The Distance measurement is not active when a Dirac filter is engaged. Even if I make the adjustments when the User filter is engaged and then engage the Dirac filter, it ignores it. That being said, I think you are correct in that Dirac is not correctly measuring the distance to my speakers. I believe the image issue is a combination of phase and volume, and I feel like an incorrect distance measurement could cause both problems. Now all I need is the magic solution to help Dirac get the measurement correct. Any ideas? |
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Post by phantom3rdchannel on Feb 16, 2021 12:08:07 GMT -5
You may also be a candidate for the UMIK-1 or 2 mic. I had the off center image as you describe and that also went away with the new mic. Did you originally use the emo mic when you experienced the center image issue, and then switch to the UMIK-1 or 2? |
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Post by jeffrey40sw on Feb 16, 2021 14:15:19 GMT -5
You may also be a candidate for the UMIK-1 or 2 mic. I had the off center image as you describe and that also went away with the new mic. Did you originally use the emo mic when you experienced the center image issue, and then switch to the UMIK-1 or 2? Yes, I was able to correct the off center issue with the Emo mic but after a lot and I mean a lot of playing with the levels as not to fry my speakers with the sweeps. However, I still did not get a satisfactory sound with the Emo supplied mic. |
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Post by Ex_Vintage on Feb 17, 2021 8:50:54 GMT -5
I have the same issue with an XMC-1. The only difference is my voicing is slanted to the left. If I switch between Stereo and Direct or Reference Stereo, I can clearly tell the difference on the same source material. If I look at the response curves on Dirac, the left and right speakers have substantially the same signature across the frequency spectrum and the applied filters can correct the variances, yet I have the voicing unbalance.
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Post by phantom3rdchannel on Feb 17, 2021 16:29:12 GMT -5
I have the same issue with an XMC-1. The only difference is my voicing is slanted to the left. If I switch between Stereo and Direct or Reference Stereo, I can clearly tell the difference on the same source material. If I look at the response curves on Dirac, the left and right speakers have substantially the same signature across the frequency spectrum and the applied filters can correct the variances, yet I have the voicing unbalance. My experience is similar to yours in that the response curves show little difference between the left and right channels. My room is acoustically treated and 99.9% symmetrical. My issue is a center image skewed to the right but also there is a distinct hole in the center where it seems no sound originates. I have music on the left and music and main voice on the right, with little or nothing in the center as if the speakers were out of phase with each other, but as soon as I disengage the dirac filter and engage the user filter with all filters set to zero, the center image returns exactly where it should be, with a wide and deep sound stage. I believe this is related to Dirac failing to identify the correct distance of one or both of my speakers. I have been able to duplicate the effect by manually changing the distance of one of my speakers when the USER filter is engaged. Unfortunately, I don't see any way to fix this with Dirac filters engaged since the distance setting is not available when Dirac is engaged. I either have to figure out what in my room is causing the miscalculation, or wait for Dirac to provide a solution. I opened a ticket with Dirac and provided them my Logs and other files about a week ago. So far, no response. I hope others will do the same so they will recognize it as a real problem that they need to address. The sad thing is that I can tell Dirac is doing some pretty good things with the tonal quality of instruments and voices when it is engaged, but the imaging is so bad that I just can't listen to it. |
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