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Post by wilburthegoose on Mar 14, 2021 9:44:57 GMT -5
We all know the Gen3 amps are pin 3 hot, pin 2 cold (out of phase). Are the Gen2 amps designed the same way?
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Post by doc1963 on Mar 14, 2021 10:29:27 GMT -5
We all know the Gen3 amps are pin 3 hot, pin 2 cold (out of phase). Are the Gen2 amps designed the same way? Yep... all generations are wired the same. Click HERE for official confirmation. |
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Post by wilburthegoose on Mar 14, 2021 12:19:24 GMT -5
Crap. Time to shop for a new amp
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Post by foggy1956 on Mar 14, 2021 12:27:14 GMT -5
Crap. Time to shop for a new amp So how has everything sounded while out of phase? |
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Post by wilburthegoose on Mar 14, 2021 12:32:17 GMT -5
Crap. Time to shop for a new amp So how has everything sounded while out of phase? I’m most concerned about damage to my speakers. |
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Post by geebo on Mar 14, 2021 12:50:30 GMT -5
So how has everything sounded while out of phase? I’m most concerned about damage to my speakers. How would that damage your speakers? |
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Lsc
Emo VIPs 
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Post by Lsc on Mar 14, 2021 12:56:28 GMT -5
I’m most concerned about damage to my speakers. How would that damage your speakers? You didn’t know if your one set of speakers are out of phase relative to another set, its going to blow up? The question is, which set is going to blow? 😬 |
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Mar 14, 2021 13:00:59 GMT -5
How would that damage your speakers? You didn’t know if your one set of speakers are out of phase relative to another set, its going to blow up? The question is, which set is going to blow? 😬 May not be 180 out of phase but in room something like 90 out of phase. Ya know, I ditched both my Gen 3 amps because of the fidelity. The harshness could of been due to phase alignment issues. I only tried an inverter to go from 180 in or out on the XLR and had a really difficult time detecting differences. In the end the harshness remained. In the past according to "Emotiva" this is normal, that is phase alignments all over the place w/ their gear. The answer I got was that signals are inverted so many times internally ..... when I was only concerned as to whether absolute polarity was maintained within the audio chain from inputs to outputs. The answer is no: absolute polarity is not maintained w/ Emotiva gear. I'm sure adding room correction instead of offing the amps would suffice in correcting phase alignment issues across the entire frequency range. |
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Post by wilburthegoose on Mar 14, 2021 13:24:21 GMT -5
I use a Parasound for my L/R and the XPA-5 G2 for C/LS/RS/LR/LR.
Even if it won’t damage the speakers, I’m pretty sure it won’t perform well.
That said, I’m a bit concerned about protecting the speakers from damage.
PS. Do any other amps do this the same way Emotiva does?
PPS. There is nothing in the manual that tells the owner to flip speaker cable polarity.
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Post by geebo on Mar 14, 2021 13:56:53 GMT -5
I use a Parasound for my L/R and the XPA-5 G2 for C/LS/RS/LR/LR. Even if it won’t damage the speakers, I’m pretty sure it won’t perform well. That said, I’m a bit concerned about protecting the speakers from damage. PS. Do any other amps do this the same way Emotiva does? PPS. There is nothing in the manual that tells the owner to flip speaker cable polarity. It won't damage the speakers and reversing the speaker wires at the speaker end OR at the amp on the Emotiva driven speakers will match the phase with other speakers that may be driven by an amp with Pin 3 wired as cold. |
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Post by foggy1956 on Mar 14, 2021 14:19:59 GMT -5
I use a Parasound for my L/R and the XPA-5 G2 for C/LS/RS/LR/LR. Even if it won’t damage the speakers, I’m pretty sure it won’t perform well. That said, I’m a bit concerned about protecting the speakers from damage. PS. Do any other amps do this the same way Emotiva does? PPS. There is nothing in the manual that tells the owner to flip speaker cable polarity. You've been playing your center channel out of phase with your towers all this time and it still sounded good to you? |
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Mar 14, 2021 15:28:27 GMT -5
I use a Parasound for my L/R and the XPA-5 G2 for C/LS/RS/LR/LR. Even if it won’t damage the speakers, I’m pretty sure it won’t perform well. That said, I’m a bit concerned about protecting the speakers from damage. PS. Do any other amps do this the same way Emotiva does? PPS. There is nothing in the manual that tells the owner to flip speaker cable polarity. You've been playing your center channel out of phase with your towers all this time and it still sounded good to you? Trying to frustrate em Foggy?  From what I understand and correct me if wrong but phase alignment issues are less apparent at higher frequencies. I'd be curious to know both the range of the towers and center channel. Wilbur - are you utilizing any room correction now? If not, you're probably going to enjoy some newfound fidelity soon! |
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Post by foggy1956 on Mar 14, 2021 15:37:34 GMT -5
You've been playing your center channel out of phase with your towers all this time and it still sounded good to you? Trying to frustrate em Foggy? From what I understand and correct me if wrong but phase alignment issues are less apparent at higher frequencies. I'd be curious to know both the range of the towers and center channel. Wilbur - are you utilizing any room correction now? If not, you're probably going to enjoy some newfound fidelity soon! Just curious, if I remeber correctly he had commented about the positive quality of the sound coming from his new processor. If I remember, speakers out of phase cause cancellations which means this thing is gonna be stunning when he gets them phase aligned. |
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Mar 14, 2021 15:47:59 GMT -5
Trying to frustrate em Foggy? From what I understand and correct me if wrong but phase alignment issues are less apparent at higher frequencies. I'd be curious to know both the range of the towers and center channel. Wilbur - are you utilizing any room correction now? If not, you're probably going to enjoy some newfound fidelity soon! Just curious, if I remeber correctly he had commented about the positive quality of the sound coming from his new processor. If I remember, speakers out of phase cause cancellations which means this thing is gonna be stunning when he gets them phase aligned. Depending on the type of processor - Dirac Live processors for example - the phase alignment issues may have already been corrected by room correction software. If room correction has been implemented, I'd highly doubt if switching polarity at the speakers would matter. Wilbur should definitely run room correction if any again after making such changes. |
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Post by wilburthegoose on Mar 14, 2021 16:39:14 GMT -5
Im using Dirac. And I know it phase aligns, but it bugs me that my amp is the only one in the world that requires the speaker cables to be flipped. I know it’s anal, but to me it’s like a car shifter working backwards.
Heck, I’ve driven a 5-speed in Ireland and it was using the global pattern.
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Post by doc1963 on Mar 14, 2021 19:55:24 GMT -5
Im using Dirac. And I know it phase aligns, but it bugs me that my amp is the only one in the world that requires the speaker cables to be flipped. I know it’s anal, but to me it’s like a car shifter working backwards. Heck, I’ve driven a 5-speed in Ireland and it was using the global pattern. I realize that you haven’t participated around here much since you moved from the XMC-1 over to the HTP-1 camp, but you were an active member here for many years prior and, during that time, this same subject has been discussed to death. So much so that I’m very surprised that you’re just learning of this. I will say that, in principle, I don’t disagree with you. However, if reversing the speaker cable output polarity at the back of the amp bothers you that much, spend 50 bucks and buy five of THESE. Plug one into the end of each XLR cable before plugging it into the amp. Problem solved for a lot less money than having custom "polarity reversing" cables made and it is definitely a much cheaper solution than replacing an otherwise perfectly fine amplifier... |
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Post by rbk123 on Mar 14, 2021 20:28:57 GMT -5
First I would try reversing the phase at your speakers and see if you hear a difference. The reason being, there's a difference between:
- "absolute phase" - the phase the sound starts with
- "relative phase" - the phase the sound ends up in at your seating location
It may end up worse sounding, or it might be better; you just don't know since with room acoustics, phase at the listening position is mega-different than how it started due to distance and reflections.
Also, there's no risk of damaging your speakers due to phase.
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Post by wilburthegoose on Mar 15, 2021 9:09:53 GMT -5
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Post by doc1963 on Mar 15, 2021 9:22:27 GMT -5
Glad it helped... Take my advice and use the "Sweetwater" link on the Hosa page and order from there. They are available through Amazon, but are most often sold by a third party using Amazon as a storefront. Sweetwater or B&H Photo are guaranteed to be original product...  |
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Post by LuisV on Mar 15, 2021 9:23:26 GMT -5
Im using Dirac. And I know it phase aligns, but it bugs me that my amp is the only one in the world that requires the speaker cables to be flipped. I know it’s anal, but to me it’s like a car shifter working backwards. Heck, I’ve driven a 5-speed in Ireland and it was using the global pattern. I realize that you haven’t participated around here much since you moved from the XMC-1 over to the HTP-1 camp, but you were an active member here for many years prior and, during that time, this same subject has been discussed to death. So much so that I’m very surprised that you’re just learning of this. I will say that, in principle, I don’t disagree with you. However, if reversing the speaker cable output polarity at the back of the amp bothers you that much, spend 50 bucks and buy five of THESE. Plug one into the end of each XLR cable before plugging it into the amp. Problem solved for a lot less money than having custom "polarity reversing" cables made and it is definitely a much cheaper solution than replacing an otherwise perfectly fine amplifier... Been a member since 2009, actually longer as the Lounge forum was rebuilt and we lost track of when we originally signed up... anyway, I don't recall this... so cool... you learn something new everyday. My previous setup was an XMC-1, XPA amps and I used XLRs, so the combo corrected the phase... interesting bit of info. I can't add more to this conversation, other than saying thanks for sharing the details. I must have missed this or possibly understood the potential issue when I purchased the XMC-1; however, since I was using XPA GEN 2 amps and it was sorted, I forgot about the potential out of phase concern... |
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