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Post by leonski on Mar 26, 2021 15:27:03 GMT -5
Correct, if you don't know what you are doing, you, you maybe doing more harm than good. Understanding proper solder techniques including temperature, duration and so on is vital. You could damage the component in question you are working on, or surrounding components. Not to mention the Vias or circuit traces or pads on the board itself. If you don't know what you are doing, have a professional technician do it for you. Also learning on a kit is an excellent idea. Power amplifiers carry potential lethal voltages and currents and can be very dangerous. If you proceed, you proceed at your own risk. Please be careful. Several different Circuit Board materials, too. G10 is probably the best and will take SOME abuse. Certainly more than some of the boards I've seen that look like they're made of compressed cardboard or something... custommaterials.com/what-is-g10/The handles of my BEST knife is G10. And you can get grips for handguns out of the SAME stuff. Chemical resistant and will NOT absorb moisture. Lifetime investment. |
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Post by Deleted on Mar 26, 2021 16:07:07 GMT -5
Correct, if you don't know what you are doing, you, you maybe doing more harm than good. Understanding proper solder techniques including temperature, duration and so on is vital. You could damage the component in question you are working on, or surrounding components. Not to mention the Vias or circuit traces or pads on the board itself. If you don't know what you are doing, have a professional technician do it for you. Also learning on a kit is an excellent idea. Power amplifiers carry potential lethal voltages and currents and can be very dangerous. If you proceed, you proceed at your own risk. Please be careful. Several different Circuit Board materials, too. G10 is probably the best and will take SOME abuse. Certainly more than some of the boards I've seen that look like they're made of compressed cardboard or something... custommaterials.com/what-is-g10/The handles of my BEST knife is G10. And you can get grips for handguns out of the SAME stuff. Chemical resistant and will NOT absorb moisture. Lifetime investment. Some circuit boards are multi layered and appear as compressed carboard especially in aviation when circuit boards are subject to variations of heat / cold and vibration. The boards are designed to flex and absorb vibration w/out breaking circuit paths etc and solder. Likewise, intermittent problems are known to rear their ugly head when circuit boards are subject to temp differentials. The circuit path may make contact when hot [expansion] but not cold [contraction]. Nothing worse than trying to diagnosis an issue that is symptomatic of environmental conditions - especially in aviation when the problem could of occurred on a 90 degree day at sea level but -10 degrees at 50 thousand feet in altitude. W/in reason, audio enthusiasts have it easy w/ rather constant temperatures in an in house environment. I agree w/ KeithL in his emphasis on decent temperatures. Just keep in mind fans cannot cool below ambient room temp .... if amps or electronics are located near a heater / vent etc or baking in sunlight during the summer. |
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Post by nguyenphananh on Mar 26, 2021 17:27:53 GMT -5
I agree in general about audiophile parts. Though in SOME cases, the measureables ARE better. But for PS Caps? TIER 1 is where you want to be. The cost difference is MINISCULE between who-knows-who AND Tier 1. You'll have to educate yourself about some of this stuff, don't rely on ME or even Keith. Tier 1 manufacturers make 'lines' of parts. Usually a 3 letter code or indicator. Sometimes only 2. Again, do some reading. As for 'upgrades'? A good way to destroy the value of a piece of gear. This is so subjective and sometimes simply money driven (maybe greed?) as to be a Massive Red Flag. I would buy a used amp in a heartbeat and HAVE, but only Un Modified. The only gear I ever modded was my old Kenwood. And that has been reversed and it is now 'back to normal'. The OTHER mod I'd do would be to upgrade my speakers. Go to an active crossover and REAL (not passive) BiAmp. But Magnepans are on the exception list. A HUGE body of lore and knowledge exists. Recently while looking at KLIPSCH I discovered an aftermarket company selling crossovers and a few other goodies. A whole slew of aftermarket stands exist and a few (Peter Gunn) will do a total reframe in beautiful solid hardwood....Take your Pick! www.indiespinzone.com/mag/mag4.htmlSince some of the caps are starting to leak, I only planned to replace these defective parts, plus maybe some other caps and resistors with the higher quality, exactly specification parts. I read somewhere here that the cheaper, chinese parts the spec, tolerance werent as tight, precise as tier 1 parts. I would not replace parts with different spec.... that would open the whole new can of worms.... |
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Post by Deleted on Mar 26, 2021 17:40:55 GMT -5
I agree in general about audiophile parts. Though in SOME cases, the measureables ARE better. But for PS Caps? TIER 1 is where you want to be. The cost difference is MINISCULE between who-knows-who AND Tier 1. You'll have to educate yourself about some of this stuff, don't rely on ME or even Keith. Tier 1 manufacturers make 'lines' of parts. Usually a 3 letter code or indicator. Sometimes only 2. Again, do some reading. As for 'upgrades'? A good way to destroy the value of a piece of gear. This is so subjective and sometimes simply money driven (maybe greed?) as to be a Massive Red Flag. I would buy a used amp in a heartbeat and HAVE, but only Un Modified. The only gear I ever modded was my old Kenwood. And that has been reversed and it is now 'back to normal'. The OTHER mod I'd do would be to upgrade my speakers. Go to an active crossover and REAL (not passive) BiAmp. But Magnepans are on the exception list. A HUGE body of lore and knowledge exists. Recently while looking at KLIPSCH I discovered an aftermarket company selling crossovers and a few other goodies. A whole slew of aftermarket stands exist and a few (Peter Gunn) will do a total reframe in beautiful solid hardwood....Take your Pick! www.indiespinzone.com/mag/mag4.htmlSince some of the caps are starting to leak, I only planned to replace these defective parts, plus maybe some other caps and resistors with the higher quality, exactly specification parts. I read somewhere here that the cheaper, chinese parts the spec, tolerance werent as tight, precise as tier 1 parts. I would not replace parts with different spec.... that would open the whole new can of worms.... What if Emotiva using Chinese parts compensated for the Chinese tolerance in their specs  |
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Post by vcautokid on Mar 26, 2021 22:44:33 GMT -5
I like that Deleted but electronic physics and characteristics know no land or boundary. All electronic measures and rules apply world wide. But still, that was cool.
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Post by leonski on Mar 27, 2021 1:49:25 GMT -5
I like that Deleted but electronic physics and characteristics know no land or boundary. All electronic measures and rules apply world wide. But still, that was cool. And while SOME are measuring.....still Others are Listening. Much makes sense with measurables and what you hear, while other things don't seem to 'add up'.. |
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Post by vcautokid on Mar 27, 2021 7:20:08 GMT -5
Sure called voicing due to characteristics. Yeah I get that. Just as long as it doesn't get to hocus-pocus.
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Post by leonski on Mar 27, 2021 20:57:19 GMT -5
Depends MUCHO on at what point in knowledge, voicing turns to hook-pocus? By this I mean.......some phenom can be fairly clearly ascribed to
one measureable or another. What to do when people hear things......that can NOT be ascribed to one of the current measureable?
At that point, you have a First Class PUZZLE This has happened many times in the history of hi-fidelity and nearly always results in an improvement
in the state of the measurement art. And even All-New stuff to measure.....
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Post by vcautokid on Mar 28, 2021 2:16:23 GMT -5
Well ya gotta have both measures and listen to make it go. Otherwise it is like making food by the recipe and not knowing how it tastes.
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Post by leonski on Mar 28, 2021 12:42:55 GMT -5
Problem is that MANY are spec driven rather than sound. I've seen dozens of threads in which some spec or other was mentioned as if it meant anything.....
'My speaker goes to 25hz!' somebody might say. Too bad that's at a non-spec'd 15% distortion at that frequency.
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Post by Deleted on Mar 28, 2021 15:06:12 GMT -5
I like that Deleted but electronic physics and characteristics know no land or boundary. All electronic measures and rules apply world wide. But still, that was cool. My point being is if a part has a tolerance and variation of 1 through 10 and I compensated for that variation by the average of 5... What if parts were replaced with a tighter tolerance and variation of 1 through 3 where only an average of 1.5 occurs? I'd think the tighter tolerance might have less desirable effects. Not suggesting audio technology is as strict as aviation in manufacturing but I was curious whether using sub standard Chinese parts was considered in design? |
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Post by audiobill on Mar 28, 2021 17:17:29 GMT -5
Many threads here about leaky or exploding caps. Too many, imo.
Where are the nichicon or panasonic out of the box?
Maybe too much “rethinking the high end “ ?
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Post by leonski on Mar 28, 2021 17:39:03 GMT -5
Many threads here about leaky or exploding caps. Too many, imo. Where are the nichicon or panasonic out of the box? Maybe too much “rethinking the high end “ ? I don't know what you EXACTLY mean,,, but anything from the Tier 1 manufacturers of such caps would be FINE for the PS. The 2 you mention ARE on that list. I'd add Elna and Rubycon, IF I were to name drop. Several others, too.... As for failure? Easy to check on, though DY makes a point about ESR being the worst offender. As for bulges / and Leaks? EASY to do a simple visual. And pretty much everyone agrees the lifetime of such caps is 20 years and MORE.....So not a 'first order' worry. |
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Post by audiobill on Mar 28, 2021 17:52:56 GMT -5
Agree, but any of these brands in the products discussed here?
Best,
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Post by leonski on Mar 28, 2021 19:44:01 GMT -5
Not that it matters, but my 35 or 40 year old Kenwood Integrated has ELNA.
Never cracked the case on my Parasound amps so that's unknown.
Just my OPINION, but if I were a manufacturer? I'd buy Tier 1 parts only. I don't know that PS caps effect voicing, but suspect such a minimal impact as to
be nearly or completely imaginary.
It would be interesting to know what Pass used on some of his amps.
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Post by Deleted on Mar 29, 2021 0:12:55 GMT -5
Not that it matters, but my 35 or 40 year old Kenwood Integrated has ELNA. Never cracked the case on my Parasound amps so that's unknown. Just my OPINION, but if I were a manufacturer? I'd buy Tier 1 parts only. I don't know that PS caps effect voicing, but suspect such a minimal impact as to be nearly or completely imaginary. It would be interesting to know what Pass used on some of his amps. From what I've read Parasound amps are made in China. Don't get me wrong as my intent is not to knock Asian countries. I mean if made in the USA doesn't actually raise the bar or standard then why care? Back in the 80s who'd want to buy an American car in contrast to the Japanese? Correct if wrong but Parasound is designed in America but assembly is in and parts come from China as well as Finland [processors]. |
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Post by leonski on Mar 29, 2021 13:28:04 GMT -5
In general almost all capacitors are soldered in place... and, as far as I can recall, that is 100% true in everything we make. This makes them tricky to replace unless you are experienced with soldering and unsoldering components. (Sometimes very large filter caps, especially in older units, may be connected with wires and terminals or with screws alone.)
IF YOU DON'T KNOW WHAT YOU'RE DOING IT'S EASY TO DESTROY THE CIRCUIT BOARD WHEN ATTEMPTING TO UNSOLDER PARTS... IT'S ALSO EASY TO OVERHEAT THE NEW PART, WHICH CAN CAUSE IT TO FAIL OUTRIGHT, OR TO FAIL PREMATURELY...
To be quite blunt...
Soldering isn't all that difficult if you know what you're doing... But it's also quite easy to destroy things with a soldering iron if you don't know what you're doing...
If you have no experience with soldering then changing parts in a working amplifier is NOT a good place to start... (Maybe try a nice kit or two first.... and get yourself a nice temperature-controlled soldering iron and proper solder.  )
Good Question DY! I'd like to see a photo...... If I was the OP, I'd seek a 2nd, professional opinion.... Also? Do they solder to the board, if if so, do you know lead spacing? I have training from a MilSpec rated solderer....And have high confidence AND have stumbled into fixing multi-level boards where I installed new part for a friend with 'no guarantee'. What makes me nuts is the microscopic wire in headphone cables with that extra 'filiment' for strength. |
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Post by nguyenphananh on Mar 29, 2021 14:10:41 GMT -5
Agree, but any of these brands in the products discussed here? Best, I can answer this question: I opened up my XPA-2 gen 1 and inspected every single boards. None of these brand name parts could be seen anywhere!! They are all either chinese's or no name!! |
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Post by DYohn on Mar 29, 2021 15:01:51 GMT -5
Post a picture of these "leaking" power supply caps, please.
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Post by nguyenphananh on Mar 29, 2021 18:50:49 GMT -5
Post a picture of these "leaking" power supply caps, please. Unfortunately, I already dropped off the amp at the local tv repair shop to fix this and other issue. I also ordered some upgrade (better quality) caps and resistors to replace the defective parts. The LEDs meter light stopped working while ago (main reason for open up the amp).... after lengthy discussion with EMO, they suspected the front panel board to be defective. I bought a panel from EMO for ~ $140. Sadly, even replaced that panel, the problem still didnt fix!! (wasted $150). Thats why I dropped it off to the repair shop, and while they are at it, have them replace all the defective caps too. |
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