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Post by alhull on Apr 12, 2021 16:32:30 GMT -5
I updated my XMC-2 running Dirac to FW 2.2 The update went fine w/o errors, but I noticed my subwoofer was a LOT boomier after the upgrade. I made no changes to my Dirac setting or the trims. Ultimately I had to turn the Gain on the sub itself down about 10% to get it back to a balanced sound w/o the overdriving bass.
Just curious if anyone else has experienced it. If I'm not imagining this, what would cause this? None of the previous updates (after Dirac activation) have done this.
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Post by foggy1956 on Apr 12, 2021 16:51:57 GMT -5
I updated my XMC-2 running Dirac to FW 2.2 The update went fine w/o errors, but I noticed my subwoofer was a LOT boomier after the upgrade. I made no changes to my Dirac setting or the trims. Ultimately I had to turn the Gain on the sub itself down about 10% to get it back to a balanced sound w/o the overdriving bass. Just curious if anyone else has experienced it. If I'm not imagining this, what would cause this? None of the previous updates (after Dirac activation) have done this. Yes I did. |
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geebo
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Post by geebo on Apr 12, 2021 16:54:41 GMT -5
Yep, me too.
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Post by davidl81 on Apr 12, 2021 16:56:27 GMT -5
Seems to be a fairly universal issue. Re running DIRAC does not fix the issue either. I had to turn the sub gain down about 6dB for it to be somewhat balanced.
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Post by ttocs on Apr 12, 2021 19:10:08 GMT -5
It's not a Dirac thing, it's the firmware. I did a comparo between FW2.2 and FW2.0 using the same method and settings. This is where I found settings which make the bass below the crossover higher than previous firmware and also that the level of the bass has been higher than it should be in previous firmware. The level of all channels should be the same and the LFE channel should be at +10dB higher, end of story. But, it seems that the bass level is a few dB higher no matter which firmware is used, but that FW2.2 has an increase above that depending on the exact speaker setup. Some combinations of speaker setups with subwoofer setups has a mix of results. There are workarounds that actually allow for better flexibility of being able to control the level of bass for bass below the crossover, and also LFE, individually. I've been able to get everything in line by using Center Sub output just for LFE, and Left Sub output set as Mono for the bass below the crossover for all channels setup as Small. This shows the results from setting the various speaker channels as Small and/or Large along with subwoofer channels setup as LFE or Mono and both.  Using my preferred setting of only having the Center Sub setup as LFE which then sends all the bass below the crossover for the Small channels to the Large Fronts has the greatest increase of bass ALL the time. So for me it was so obvious there was a problem that it could not be confused with imagination. This is why I set about trying to find the limits. All of this was reported immediately to Emo and has been acknowledged, but it may be a while for a fix. |
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Post by alhull on Apr 15, 2021 23:47:29 GMT -5
"All of this was reported immediately to Emo and has been acknowledged, but it may be a while for a fix."
Good to know. I'm amazed why this occurred - if it ain't broke, don't fix it! Why did the engineers feel this code needed changing?
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Post by bitzerjdb on Apr 16, 2021 6:42:36 GMT -5
I really don't understand how this issue made it out into the wild and wasn't picked up in testing. It is painfully obvious. I also needed to reduce my Gain by 6db to get it back to normal.
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Post by ttocs on Apr 16, 2021 9:11:44 GMT -5
I really don't understand how this issue made it out into the wild and wasn't picked up in testing. It is painfully obvious. I also needed to reduce my Gain by 6db to get it back to normal. It only shows up with some setups. Look at the chart and you'll see some setups with less bass, some the same as before, and some elevated. It is setup dependent. The setup I was using has the most bass, but due to my testing I am now using a mixed setup with Center Sub LFE and Left Sub Mono which allows for individual leveling of LFE and BM. |
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Post by bitzerjdb on Apr 16, 2021 9:30:28 GMT -5
The whole thing is pretty damn confusing. I have a simple setup...and am just getting tired of the workarounds I need to put in place to achieve a degree of stability. We primarily use the HT for Movies, some have better sound than others. Having to ask, is it the Media, is it a setting, or is it?? is tiring. It's great when it works...but.....
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Post by ttocs on Apr 16, 2021 9:59:41 GMT -5
Speaking of "stability", I don't experience any stability issues from the XMC-2 with FW2.2.
The only unstable item in my system right now is my Sony tv maintaining a video lock from my TiVo, but that is because my Sony tv updated its firmware and added some features and changed something that made the video from the TiVo more unstable forcing me to turn off my tv for more than about 15 seconds then back on to regain video. This one is 100% Sony for making it worse, but 100% Tivo for being slightly unstable in the first place. I don't have this problem when using a projector, but the huge difference is that the PJ is not 4K with HDCP 2.2.
It's a TiVo EDGE. Don't buy one. TiVo sucks at support. I love the features, but it's the skipping features that jumble the video and cause the instability.
The Sony tv used to wait longer for a video lock from the TiVo after skipping around, but now it gives up quicker, hence losing the video lock altogether. I'm only talking about a fraction of a second that the tv would need to wait for the TiVo to stabilize. Rebooting the XMC-2 doesn't fix the issue because the tv is hanging on for dear life to the failed video sync. Unplugging the HDMI cable also doesn't help. Shutting down the tv is the only solution.
Two Sony firmwares ago allowed me to just change the tv HDMI inputs to clear the issue, so this is not a new problem, just a worsening of the problem.
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Post by Deleted on Apr 16, 2021 10:59:35 GMT -5
First people complain that Emotiva's Dirac Live doesn't have enough subwoofer gain concerning THX 105/115db levels and now they're complaining the subwoofer output is louder.
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cawgijoe
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Post by cawgijoe on Apr 16, 2021 11:22:24 GMT -5
My system like ttocs is also stable. I currently don't have any issues (that I know of) causing problems with normal viewing. My subwoofer seems to be at the correct output level and integrated well.
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Dreamer
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Post by Dreamer on Apr 16, 2021 18:11:10 GMT -5
I have searched the XMC-2 manual without finding a clear answer. What setting or settings would best reduce this overall bass sound increase that came with 2.2?
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Post by ttocs on Apr 16, 2021 20:20:26 GMT -5
I have searched the XMC-2 manual without finding a clear answer. What setting or settings would best reduce this overall sound bass increase that came with 2.2? It's not in the manual. Look at the spreadsheet posted above and choose what works for your system. The bass has been at +3dB all along, just that nobody noticed so that's nothing new. What's new is when a system has Large Fronts and the Center Sub setup as Mono, the bass below the crossover is elevated to +6dB. What's new is when a system has Large Fronts and the Center Sub setup as LFE, this will then send the bass for all Small channels to the Large Fronts at +11dB. At the time I made that spreadsheet I wasn't willing to do any more tests to check what happens with only Left Sub Mono because that is of no interest to me and would've required more work from me to test. The problem with Left Sub and no Right Sub is that Dirac will see a phantom Right Sub in error. The workaround for this is to use a Y cable from the Left and Right sub outputs, Dirac will see and measure each channel, then the Right Sub output can be disabled after and the Y cable removed. This is why so many folks will use, and should use, the Center Sub output when only using one subwoofer output. |
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LCSeminole
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Post by LCSeminole on Apr 16, 2021 22:31:10 GMT -5
I have searched the XMC-2 manual without finding a clear answer. What setting or settings would best reduce this overall bass sound increase that came with 2.2? I simply turned down my subwoofer's gain 6db's. |
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Dreamer
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Post by Dreamer on Apr 16, 2021 23:38:56 GMT -5
I have searched the XMC-2 manual without finding a clear answer. What setting or settings would best reduce this overall sound bass increase that came with 2.2? It's not in the manual. Look at the spreadsheet posted above and choose what works for your system. The bass has been at +3dB all along, just that nobody noticed so that's nothing new. What's new is when a system has Large Fronts and the Center Sub setup as Mono, the bass below the crossover is elevated to +6dB. What's new is when a system has Large Fronts and the Center Sub setup as LFE, this will then send the bass for all Small channels to the Large Fronts at +11dB. At the time I made that spreadsheet I wasn't willing to do any more tests to check what happens with only Left Sub Mono because that is of no interest to me and would've required more work from me to test. The problem with Left Sub and no Right Sub is that Dirac will see a phantom Right Sub in error. The workaround for this is to use a Y cable from the Left and Right sub outputs, Dirac will see and measure each channel, then the Right Sub output can be disabled after and the Y cable removed. This is why so many folks will use, and should use, the Center Sub output when only using one subwoofer output. Thank you....now I understand. My setup is 2 large fronts & LFE. Got it! |
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Post by Deleted on Apr 17, 2021 9:42:42 GMT -5
I have searched the XMC-2 manual without finding a clear answer. What setting or settings would best reduce this overall bass sound increase that came with 2.2? I simply turned down my subwoofer's gain 6db's. ROFL - Simplicity!!! |
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Post by ttocs on Apr 17, 2021 10:28:28 GMT -5
I simply turned down my subwoofer's gain 6db's. ROFL - Simplicity!!! This will work for only some of the scenarios. If the subwoofer gain is lowered on a sub setup as Mono and there is another sub handling LFE, it works. If there is no sub for LFE, then turning down the gain will lower the bass that's managed per the crossover settings and will also lower the LFE level. Unfortunately, there is no way to "turn up" the LFE channel, the permanent Trim for LFE found in Preferences only lowers the level. But, if one does not mind having less LFE level, then it doesn't matter. |
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Post by alhull on Apr 22, 2021 22:26:48 GMT -5
First people complain that Emotiva's Dirac Live doesn't have enough subwoofer gain concerning THX 105/115db levels and now they're complaining the subwoofer output is louder. The bass wasn't just louder, it was booming and overpowering. Under the previous f/w, I had Dirac and everything balanced and sounding great. After the update, BOOM. This shouldn't happen - it's poor code that let this happen. It's annoying, and we shouldn't have to change what was working fine after much effort and is now F'd up. |
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