cawgijoe
Emo VIPs 
"We made too many of the wrong mistakes." - Yogi Berra
Posts: 4,896
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Post by cawgijoe on Apr 19, 2021 8:45:47 GMT -5
Ah. I'd first reach out to Emotiva technical support directly, and I suspect a good starting point would be to return to factory defaults and set it up again. I emailed and got no reply, called and they said it needs to be referred to a processor specialist, waiting for a response. First....please try the factory reset if you haven't already. You can save your settings and re-install afterwards. let us know if that fixes things. Next....instead of waiting for whenever that call may come in, call them back and ask to talk to someone with "processor" knowledge. Tell them politely that you are waiting on a call, but decided to see if someone was available. You may get lucky instead of having to wait for who knows how long. |
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KeithL
Administrator 
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Post by KeithL on Apr 19, 2021 11:17:58 GMT -5
(I'm copying this from my reply to the user.)
From the description it sounds like something called "normalization".
As I'm sure you're aware the Volume control on the XMC-1 (and most other modern processors) is digitally controlled.
And, as part of this, there is a thing called normalization.... which in this context means that the system has internal limits.
So, for example, let's say that you were to set two overlapping EQ bands so that the result would be a gain of +18 dB at that frequency....
This would cause the output to POTENTIALLY overload and clip if you turned the Volume up past about -10 ....
So the system internally limits the level you are allowed to set so that it WILL NOT go past -10 INTERNALLY...
And, if you turn the knob past that, the numbers continue to go up, but the ACTUAL Volume setting does not.
NOTE that this is NOT a dynamic process - and will never affect the dynamic properties of the music.
It is simply as you've observed - think of it as a "clutch" that disconnects the ACTUAL Volume control from the knob and the display.
Note that the level trims, the manual EQ settings, and the gains of the Dirac filters are taken into account for this...
So it may be difficult to figure out what is causing the normalization to limit.
Also note that this limit is based on GAIN rather than on actual level.
It acts to prevent a combination of settings where a 0 dB INPUT SIGNAL would cause the output to clip...
(But, if your source is in fact delivering a much lower level signal, then the output limit will also be much lower.)
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Post by bradleyaudio on Apr 19, 2021 12:42:05 GMT -5
Thanks Keith. As we discussed, this is the first time I have experienced this in several years of ownership, and no setting changes for many months.
It has been duplicated with a CD.
So now the most likely problem, as you mentioned, is some kind of corruption. The next step is a factory reset. If that doesn't fix it, then try reloading firmware.
I can do it this coming weekend.
If that doesn't fix it, I imagine the next step is a trip back to the factory.
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Post by AudioHTIT on Apr 19, 2021 17:12:06 GMT -5
Thanks Keith. As we discussed, this is the first time I have experienced this in several years of ownership, and no setting changes for many months. It has been duplicated with a CD. So now the most likely problem, as you mentioned, is some kind of corruption. The next step is a factory reset. If that doesn't fix it, then try reloading firmware. I can do it this coming weekend. If that doesn't fix it, I imagine the next step is a trip back to the factory. As I mentioned, Dirac can cause the normalization issue Keith speaks of, are you using Dirac? (or made any significant PEQ settings?). A factory reset will solve that issue as well, but it may not be necessary. |
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Post by bradleyaudio on Apr 19, 2021 17:52:41 GMT -5
As I mentioned, Dirac can cause the normalization issue Keith speaks of, are you using Dirac? (or made any significant PEQ settings?). A factory reset will solve that issue as well, but it may not be necessary. I am using Dirac, but nothing has been changed with Dirac, or any other settings for many months, it has been working flawlessly until the last couple of weeks or so. |
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Post by AudioHTIT on Apr 19, 2021 22:06:30 GMT -5
As I mentioned, Dirac can cause the normalization issue Keith speaks of, are you using Dirac? (or made any significant PEQ settings?). A factory reset will solve that issue as well, but it may not be necessary. I am using Dirac, but nothing has been changed with Dirac, or any other settings for many months, it has been working flawlessly until the last couple of weeks or so. If your user 1 or 2 presets are ‘flat’, try changing to one of them. I know you feel nothing has changed, but you’re describing a problem that is often caused by Dirac. Give it a try, it’s troubleshooting. |
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Post by bradleyaudio on Apr 19, 2021 22:54:27 GMT -5
If your user 1 or 2 presets are ‘flat’, try changing to one of them. I know you feel nothing has changed, but you’re describing a problem that is often caused by Dirac. Give it a try, it’s troubleshooting. Certainly worth a try, I will report back. |
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Post by bradleyaudio on Apr 21, 2021 19:53:23 GMT -5
If your user 1 or 2 presets are ‘flat’, try changing to one of them. I know you feel nothing has changed, but you’re describing a problem that is often caused by Dirac. Give it a try, it’s troubleshooting. Certainly worth a try, I will report back. Got some time to play around today. Changed to preset 1 (which has no settings other than speaker config). The volume limiting issue went away, so that is promising. Here is my plan 1. Factory reset (I think at this point with this problem arising in the first place, best to start with a clean slate). 2. Re-do Dirac from scratch a. I managed to get the Dirac software installed on my current HTPC. b. I also managed to get the PC talking to the XMC-1 - once. After rebooting the XMC-1 though, no longer - more XMC-1 network fun. Doesn't help that I am using a wi-fi to ethernet adapter. 3. After that, make my trim settings. |
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Post by AudioHTIT on Apr 21, 2021 20:47:26 GMT -5
Certainly worth a try, I will report back. Got some time to play around today. Changed to preset 1 (which has no settings other than speaker config). The volume limiting issue went away, so that is promising. Here is my plan 1. Factory reset (I think at this point with this problem arising in the first place, best to start with a clean slate). 2. Re-do Dirac from scratch a. I managed to get the Dirac software installed on my current HTPC. b. I also managed to get the PC talking to the XMC-1 - once. After rebooting the XMC-1 though, no longer - more XMC-1 network fun. Doesn't help that I am using a wi-fi to ethernet adapter. 3. After that, make my trim settings. Sounds like a plan. Another thing that some have done is to use the Dirac curtains, especially for low bass, so that you’re not trying to over compensate for a steep low end roll off. Over correction is what can cause the volume normalization to kick in. There’s a lot of info (probably too much) in this thread, maybe you can find something helpful. emotivalounge.proboards.com/thread/40758/dirac-xmc-1-work-progress |
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Post by bradleyaudio on Apr 21, 2021 20:55:52 GMT -5
Any useful resources for networking?
Thanks
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Post by bradleyaudio on Apr 21, 2021 21:38:53 GMT -5
Sounds like a plan. Another thing that some have done is to use the Dirac curtains, especially for low bass, so that you’re not trying to over compensate for a steep low end roll off. Over correction is what can cause the volume normalization to kick in. There’s a lot of info (probably too much) in this thread, maybe you can find something helpful. emotivalounge.proboards.com/thread/40758/dirac-xmc-1-work-progressThanks. It has been years now, but I played around a lot with curtains before. The sub problem I ran into before wasn't due to low end EQ, my subs go down to 16Hz. My problem was being unable to get an even response due to very ragged in room response, and Dirac can only boost so much. I tried the workaround of doing a baseline boost, then making most of the adjustments cuts. I think I will try it pretty much plain vanilla this time (other than setting my preferred high end roll-off). |
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Post by AudioHTIT on Apr 21, 2021 21:46:34 GMT -5
Any useful resources for networking? Thanks I didn’t have a lot of problems with my XMC-1 and networking, but I know others did (I have more now with the RMC-1). One recommendation with the newer processors is to power off (rear switch or pull the cord) for at least one minute. It may be switch sensitive too, sorry, nothing definitive. |
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Post by bradleyaudio on Apr 22, 2021 16:46:13 GMT -5
It has been years now, but I played around a lot with curtains before. The sub problem I ran into before wasn't due to low end EQ, my subs go down to 16Hz. My problem was being unable to get an even response due to very ragged in room response, and Dirac can only boost so much. I tried the workaround of doing a baseline boost, then making most of the adjustments cuts. I think I will try it pretty much plain vanilla this time (other than setting my preferred high end roll-off). Another idea I have been kicking around is to configure my subs as mono rather than stereo, on the theory that the two subs may help cancel out each other's room response non-linearities, resulting in less 'work' for Dirac. |
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Post by bradleyaudio on Apr 24, 2021 16:07:21 GMT -5
Factory reset went fine. I am unable to connect to the XMC-1 via network for Dirac. It worked once when I did an initial test but nothing I have tried since works. It gets network data via DHCP, I can ping it but it does not show up on my router device list. I even tried creating a manual DHCP entry on the router, no luck. This is frustrating...
Note that I am using the Emotiva 'approved' wifi to ethernet adapter. I also tried a crossover cable from my HTPC, no luck there either.
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Post by bradleyaudio on Apr 24, 2021 17:38:09 GMT -5
After a bunch more fiddling I got a connection, but kept getting timeouts and the filters were junk. I will retry with a temporary wired network connection.
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Post by bradleyaudio on Apr 27, 2021 11:07:50 GMT -5
After a bunch more fiddling I got a connection, but kept getting timeouts and the filters were junk. I will retry with a temporary wired network connection. Temporary network connection worked well, but could never get Dirac levels correct. The software either complained of clipping (there was none), or that levels were too low. This was never an issue in the past, with my previous HTPC. At this point, the best path seems to be to go to the XMC-2, I get the latest (supported) Dirac software and a new warranty. I went ahead and bought the upgrade. Certainly Emotiva is offering a very generous upgrade deal. |
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KeithL
Administrator
Posts: 9,929
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Post by KeithL on Apr 27, 2021 15:05:10 GMT -5
Just FYI... the Dirac Live software for the XMC-1 shows you when there is significant or obvious clipping during the recording of the samples... However, the fact that you don't see obvious clipping, and there are no "red flashes" during the test tones, DOES NOT mean that there wasn't any clipping at all... The software looks a lot more carefully when it later analyzes the samples...
If you get the "Too Many Clipped Samples" error then you should turn the level down a dB or two and try again... But, yes, the newer version of the Dirac software is supported better... and the user interface has been improved.
(And the same goes for the XMC-2 itself.  ) After a bunch more fiddling I got a connection, but kept getting timeouts and the filters were junk. I will retry with a temporary wired network connection. Temporary network connection worked well, but could never get Dirac levels correct. The software either complained of clipping (there was none), or that levels were too low. This was never an issue in the past, with my previous HTPC. At this point, the best path seems to be to go to the XMC-2, I get the latest (supported) Dirac software and a new warranty. I went ahead and bought the upgrade. Certainly Emotiva is offering a very generous upgrade deal. |
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Post by bradleyaudio on Apr 28, 2021 13:10:39 GMT -5
Just FYI... the Dirac Live software for the XMC-1 shows you when there is significant or obvious clipping during the recording of the samples... However, the fact that you don't see obvious clipping, and there are no "red flashes" during the test tones, DOES NOT mean that there wasn't any clipping at all... The software looks a lot more carefully when it later analyzes the samples...
If you get the "Too Many Clipped Samples" error then you should turn the level down a dB or two and try again... But, yes, the newer version of the Dirac software is supported better... and the user interface has been improved.
(And the same goes for the XMC-2 itself. ) I tried this over and over, and it would go from too many clipped samples to too low a level fail with a small reduction in level, and back again when I raised it. The speaker waveform maxes were way below the max levels, so this seems like a false positive. I had never run into anything like it before on my previous HTPC. Presumably it won't recur with the XMC-2 and the new Dirac software. I am curious, if a speaker distorted, could the software flag this as a clip? Or is it strictly looking for hitting the max level. |
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Post by bradleyaudio on May 14, 2021 13:20:55 GMT -5
So my XMC-1 is now on its way to getting traded for an XMC-2. The manual isn't terribly extensive. A buddy with an XMC-2 looked at the UI and saw that the setting for a single back channel is no longer available. Can I safely passively sum the two back channel outputs?
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Post by sunfire on May 24, 2021 20:54:48 GMT -5
I have exactly the same problem/issue. I just purchased a refurbish XMC-1 I have now had it for about two weeks. That volume issue that you’re talking about is exactly what happens to mine. You can raise the volume to -20 and anything above that it does not increase the volume. It’s the strangest thing. I thought that some setting was wrong causing the issue so I factory reset the unit. Did not touch any settings, any trims, no nothing. Fired it back up and the same volume issue continues. Also It takes forever to switch between HDMI inputs. My brand new Sony Blu-ray player will not play at times, it just has a blank black screen and I need to cycle the processor on and off using the rocker switch on the back. I’ve only spent an hour or two at a time with this a day when I first got it. During the first four days it locked solid twice but I couldn’t do anything. Again having to use the rocker switch on the back of the processor to reboot and correct the issue. Yesterday I used Dirac for the first time. I just wanted to see how it would work and did the nine microphone points and I hit the button to make filters. It sent the information to the processor and oh my goodness did it sound like crap!. Also when it is in Dirac mode it pops in bangs between inputs and I mean loud. Also when you adjust the volume you can hear a loud clicking through the speakers as the volume knob ticks through its numbers while raising or lowering the volume. I cycled the rocker switch again and now most of the issues have fixed themselves. The volume now gets extremely loud but the strangest thing in 2 channel mode if I’m using stereo, reference stereo or direct, my subs do not work. I have read the manual forward and backwards and I understand that in reference Stereo the subwoofers and any processing is turned off and there’s only two channels. The manual states in direct and stereo bass management is available. They only work when watching movies. I’ve been to every menu in there trying to get my subwoofers to work. Should I be sending this unit back? Do you think I have a bad unit? I’m hoping the answer is yes because I cannot believe that this would be the norm with this processor. Do you think that these issues are going to happen with a different processor if they send me a new one? I just recently upgraded the front sound stage in my theater and that ate up most of my budget. The XMC-1 fits my budget to upgrade my processor from a Sunfire theater grand 2 which I had absolutely zero issues with for the last 20 years. I am upgrading it because It does not have HDMI switching and I’m tired of unplugging one source and plugging in another. The XMC-1 theater processor works great when I watch a movie it is as expected surround sound and it sounds good. I am a huge 2 channel person and more than half of the time I listen to music at rock concert levels. Is the Emotiva a proper fit for me?
Bill
XMC-1
2 Sunfire amps
Adcom 3 channel amp
Sony Blue ray player hdmi 3
Xfinity cable box hdmi 2
Amazon fire stick hdmi 1
Epson 5030 ub projector
133 in Dalite screen
Martin Logan motion 60 XTI
Martin Logan motion 50 XTI
Martin Logan dynamo 1100 X subwoofers (2)
Sonus Faber wall surround speakers (2 pairs)
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