Drastic center channel volume decrease RMC 1

[seaya69]

Hello

I have looked around to find if this has been asked before and i could not find it. Anyhow on my RMC 1 I have great center channel audio decrease on some things. Enough of a decrease to actually shut my cc amp off. The certain devices effected is a BuzzTV 4k and a Roku 4k along with a Cambridge Audio UDP. If i put the volume to anything greater than -30db the amp (XPA 1 Gen 3) the amp shuts off.

When I have it on another output with  dishnet playing I have no issues and can go over the -30 db threshold without a shutoff on the amp. This is the 2nd amp i have tried, I have changed the interconnects (xlr) The center Channel speaker is a Klipsch (RC 64 III)


The RMC is running the current software

Any help in fixing this would be more than greatly appreciated. Everythingg the wife wants to watch a movie we almost need hearing aids to hear it and are usually forced (after restarting the amp) 8 times to theold trusty bedroom video..lol

If you need any further info I will gladly post, once again thank you

seaya

[405x5]

Jun 14, 2021 13:06:30 GMT -5 seaya69 said:

Hello

I have looked around to find if this has been asked before and i could not find it. Anyhow on my RMC 1 I have great center channel audio decrease on some things. Enough of a decrease to actually shut my cc amp off. The certain devices effected is a BuzzTV 4k and a Roku 4k along with a Cambridge Audio UDP. If i put the volume to anything greater than -30db the amp (XPA 1 Gen 3) the amp shuts off.

When I have it on another output with  dishnet playing I have no issues and can go over the -30 db threshold without a shutoff on the amp. This is the 2nd amp i have tried, I have changed the interconnects (xlr) The center Channel speaker is a Klipsch (RC 64 III)


The RMC is running the current software

Any help in fixing this would be more than greatly appreciated. Everythingg the wife wants to watch a movie we almost need hearing aids to hear it and are usually forced (after restarting the amp) 8 times to theold trusty bedroom video..lol

If you need any further info I will gladly post, once again thank you

seaya

It sounds like an HDMI output configuration issue for your center channel on a specific HDMI input. Without Dirac, have you checked your original configuration settings?

[seaya69]

I find that would be weird as it is on 4 inputs, also I could be watching something on the andriod box (and that content is very low center channel) then I change the channel on the same box and suddenly the ceneter channel is normal again (might be another movie or just network TV)

[doc1963]

Jun 15, 2021 6:44:02 GMT -5 seaya69 said:

I find that would be weird as it is on 4 inputs, also I could be watching something on the andriod box (and that content is very low center channel) then I change the channel on the same box and suddenly the ceneter channel is normal again (might be another movie or just network TV)

That sounds to me that it's the way the audio content is mixed. Just because you're receiving a 5.1 audio stream does not necessarily mean that all 5.1 channels are active. There are often times where content providers (or the source device itself) will place 2.0 within a 5.1 container to avoid constant mode switching at the playback device. If this isn't done, and the playback device isn't lightning quick, you will momentarily lose audio during that DSP transition (5.1 > 2.0 > 5.1).

So... if you have 2.0 within a 5.1 container, odds are that the audio will be focused in the L/R channels with little to no content in the center or surrounds.

FWIW, I have local channels in my area that do this same thing... One station will have the commentary audio spread to the L/R and another will have the commentary audio dead center.

[KeithL]

It's odd how that only happens with some shows...

I still notice it with South Park, on Comedy Central, on XFinity cable....

There is always a switch between 5.1 and 2.0, and a big jump in volume, between commercials and the show.

(Even though I rarely notice it on anything else on the same channel.) 

Jun 15, 2021 9:16:39 GMT -5 doc1963 said:

Jun 15, 2021 6:44:02 GMT -5 seaya69 said:

I find that would be weird as it is on 4 inputs, also I could be watching something on the andriod box (and that content is very low center channel) then I change the channel on the same box and suddenly the ceneter channel is normal again (might be another movie or just network TV)

That sounds to me that it's the way the audio content is mixed. Just because you're receiving a 5.1 audio stream does not necessarily mean that all 5.1 channels are active. There are often times where content providers (or the source device itself) will place 2.0 within a 5.1 container to avoid constant mode switching at the playback device. If this isn't done, and the playback device isn't lightning quick, you will momentarily lose audio during that DSP transition (5.1 > 2.0 > 5.1).

So... if you have 2.0 within a 5.1 container, odds are that the audio will be focused in the L/R channels with little to no content in the center or surrounds.

FWIW, I have local channels in my area that do this same thing... One station will have the commentary audio spread to the L/R and another will have the commentary audio dead center.

[seaya69]

Ok that is plausible but what about when a movie is played via the Cambridge UDP. Does not matter what movie, you can barely here the center and anything past -30db the center channel amp shuts off. Any thing on the 4k side gives me very faint center channel. Whereas the Dishnet 1080i even playing a 5.1 movie presents no issues. I have had the unit for 18months, no issues whatsoever until about 7 months back. Would it have been possible that a software update did not fully install or take?

[ttocs]

Jun 15, 2021 9:42:09 GMT -5 seaya69 said:

Ok that is plausible but what about when a movie is played via the Cambridge UDP. Does not matter what movie, you can barely here the center and anything past -30db the center channel amp shuts off. Any thing on the 4k side gives me very faint center channel. Whereas the Dishnet 1080i even playing a 5.1 movie presents no issues. I have had the unit for 18months, no issues whatsoever until about 7 months back. Would it have been possible that a software update did not fully install or take?

I'm really not understanding why -30dB volume is shutting off the amp. On my XMC-2, -30dB is a moderate volume. High volume is more like -12dB, and really high volume is -8dB.

Do you have the Levels set with +dB, and if so, how high are some of the channels?

[doc1963]

I have to echo what ttocs is thinking... have you calibrated your processor's audio output levels...? Like him, -30db on my system (which isn't driving high sensitivity Klipsch speakers) is what I consider to be a moderate volume level. -20db would be approaching quite loud.

[seaya69]

db on all channels is at 0 I have even taken the center channel and tried it left and right, no problems at all Running 3 XPA 1 (left ,right and center, 2 XPA 2 (in mono) and a XPA 5, along with a tonewinner 7 channel to cover the heights and widths. Have had the system up to -8db and no cuts that includes the center channel going into different placements

Put Remorse on (Amazon), At -34db Center channel amp shuts off, First thing heard is a little pop then shutdown. This is not an amp problem as I have swapped amps, not a speaker problem..swapped also..not an interconnect issue as those have also been swapped.I have pretty well almost eliminated external hardware issues.

This is not having the units run for extensive times...fresh on 5 minutes into a movie ...goes out

[seaya69]

also all the XPA are on their own dedicated 20 amp power supply

[ttocs]

Jun 15, 2021 11:49:50 GMT -5 seaya69 said:

db on all channels is at 0 I have even taken the center channel and tried it left and right, no problems at all Running 3 XPA 1 (left ,right and center, 2 XPA 2 (in mono) and a XPA 5, along with a tonewinner 7 channel to cover the heights and widths. Have had the system up to -8db and no cuts that includes the center channel going into different placements

Put Remorse on (Amazon), At -34db Center channel amp shuts off, First thing heard is a little pop then shutdown. This is not an amp problem as I have swapped amps, not a speaker problem..swapped also..not an interconnect issue as those have also been swapped.I have pretty well almost eliminated external hardware issues.

This is not having the units run for extensive times...fresh on 5 minutes into a movie ...goes out

Please tell us more about your setup.
Speakers: Which are setup as Large, Small?
Any subwoofers?
Please post a movie that would be a common one for us to test for free.
What is the audio track specs for the movie? DD5.1? DD TrueHD 5.1? 7.1? etc.
What audio mode is being used at the time of amp going into protection?
What SPL is experienced just prior to amp going into protection?
If all Levels are at 0.0dB, have they been tested to be at the same SPL?

[davidl81]

Jun 15, 2021 9:16:39 GMT -5 doc1963 said:

Jun 15, 2021 6:44:02 GMT -5 seaya69 said:

I find that would be weird as it is on 4 inputs, also I could be watching something on the andriod box (and that content is very low center channel) then I change the channel on the same box and suddenly the ceneter channel is normal again (might be another movie or just network TV)

That sounds to me that it's the way the audio content is mixed. Just because you're receiving a 5.1 audio stream does not necessarily mean that all 5.1 channels are active. There are often times where content providers (or the source device itself) will place 2.0 within a 5.1 container to avoid constant mode switching at the playback device. If this isn't done, and the playback device isn't lightning quick, you will momentarily lose audio during that DSP transition (5.1 > 2.0 > 5.1).

So... if you have 2.0 within a 5.1 container, odds are that the audio will be focused in the L/R channels with little to no content in the center or surrounds.

FWIW, I have local channels in my area that do this same thing... One station will have the commentary audio spread to the L/R and another will have the commentary audio dead center.

I think Doc is on the something here. I have the same issue with my Marantz downstairs. It has to do with taking a 2.0 source and up converting it to Dolby Surround. How many speakers are you running?

[doc1963]

Jun 15, 2021 11:49:50 GMT -5 seaya69 said:

db on all channels is at 0 I have even taken the center channel and tried it left and right, no problems at all Running 3 XPA 1 (left ,right and center, 2 XPA 2 (in mono) and a XPA 5, along with a tonewinner 7 channel to cover the heights and widths. Have had the system up to -8db and no cuts that includes the center channel going into different placements

Put Remorse on (Amazon), At -34db Center channel amp shuts off, First thing heard is a little pop then shutdown. This is not an amp problem as I have swapped amps, not a speaker problem..swapped also..not an interconnect issue as those have also been swapped.I have pretty well almost eliminated external hardware issues.

This is not having the units run for extensive times...fresh on 5 minutes into a movie ...goes out

I agree that we definitely need to have more information about your system makeup (what specific components) and exactly how you have everything configured and interconnected.

If you’re saying that the amp driving your center channel speaker (which I’m assuming from the post I’ve quoted is an XPA-1) is “physically” turning itself off, there’s only two ways an XPA-1 can do that. The first would be if there’s a “fault” condition that would force the amp into protection mode (which would be clearly indicated by the blue LED changing to “red”). The second would be if it is “triggered” to turn off by an external source (such as your RMC-1).

Since the RMC-1 has four fully configurable trigger outputs, could it be possible that this amp is connected to one of those trigger outputs and, if so, is it also possible that you have that particular trigger output programmed to turn off when a particular audio configuration is detected...? Other than for those two scenarios, there’s no way for an XPA-1 to turn itself off since there’s no other “auto on/off” circuitry in the signal path.

I also think that you should seriously consider calibrating and “balancing” your speaker output levels. If all of your levels (in the speaker setup menu, not the main zone “trim” levels) are really 0db as you’ve said, there’s no way that your system is accurately balanced if you’re using six different amplifiers with different output power ratings and input gain structures. And if they truly are at 0db, then even a modest -30db setting on the volume dial of your RMC-1 when using high sensitivity speakers such as your Klipsch should easily achieve very high volume levels.

I truly believe there’s a configuration issue that need to be discovered and addressed... but if you truly believe that there’s something awry with your RMC-1, then here’s something simple that you can try...

First, backup your settings to the internal flash memory. Then, initiate a factory reset. After the factory reset completes, fully power down your RMC-1 and turn off the main power switch on the back of the unit. Press and hold the “standby” button on the front of the RMC-1 for 10 seconds to fully drain any residual stored energy. Then, let it sit in a fully powered off state for five minutes. Then, turn the main power switch back on, wait 15 seconds and power up the system. After it fully boots, restore your user settings. You now have a “fresh” system.

[seaya69]

Thank you Doc I will exhaust all other leads you fine people have given me before I take the last step you have suggested.

Thanks again to all that have chipped in their time and expertise to help me out.


Thank you so much 

[doc1963]

Jun 16, 2021 7:16:34 GMT -5 seaya69 said:

Thank you Doc I will exhaust all other leads you fine people have given me before I take the last step you have suggested.

Thanks again to all that have chipped in their time and expertise to help me out.


Thank you so much 

Just to add... you might just wait a few more days before attempting that factory reset. There will be a new firmware release coming very soon and, at that point, you would want to do what I suggested above following those exact steps anyway (after applying the firmware update).

[seaya69]

perfect , again..Thank you so much!!!