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Post by garbulky on Jul 22, 2021 11:58:59 GMT -5
Hello all,
I know I had a thread. But I'm now going for a mesh router. I want to get the best one I can afford, hopefully one that is a little overkill. I would need it to support at least 50 smart home devices while encountering video/facetime traffic from a pc, two fire tvs and iphone.
AND it needs to be rock solid. I would prefer the option to wire the mesh devices together, but honestly most of them would need to communicate wirelessly to each other. On every router I tried including the TP Link AX 6600 I encountered problems with smart devices losing connection. The wifi strength is adequate. Most of these are 2.4 ghz devices.
Willing to spend up to $800 though hoping the sweet spot is about $500-600.
Please give me some recommendations.
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Post by AudioHTIT on Jul 22, 2021 13:26:40 GMT -5
When your smart devices “loose connections” where are they located? Are they close to the router you’re using, or do only the ones that are further away disconnect?
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Post by AudioHTIT on Jul 22, 2021 13:30:39 GMT -5
Also have you used a WiFi scanner to see what WiFi signals you’re competing with? I use iStumbler, but don’t know if it’s available for Windows, I’m sure there’s something good there. Also you can do a WiFi scan with your iPhone and the Apple AirPort Utility (even if you don’t have an Airport). You need to learn your environment better before throwing more hardware at it.  |
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Post by creimes on Jul 22, 2021 13:40:47 GMT -5
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Post by garbulky on Jul 22, 2021 14:22:25 GMT -5
Also have you used a WiFi scanner to see what WiFi signals you’re competing with? I use iStumbler, but don’t know if it’s available for Windows, I’m sure there’s something good there. Also you can do a WiFi scan with your iPhone and the Apple AirPort Utility (even if you don’t have an Airport. You need to learn your environment better before throwing more hardware at it. View AttachmentThat's a good question. I don't know about competing wifi signals. The devices that lose connection, some are reasonably close to the router - say 15 ft, while others are further away 50 ft. |
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KeithL
Administrator 
Posts: 10,261
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Post by KeithL on Jul 22, 2021 15:03:06 GMT -5
The "problem" is that you may be looking at a variety of different issues - which may require different solutions.
For example, if there is a lot of interference in a particular frequency band, then a router that covers multiple bands will probably help. (But, if the particular device that you're having trouble with only supports one of those bands, then it may not.)
Likewise, signal is weakened by distance, but also to a large degree by specific materials between you and the router. To take the extreme case, if you have a closet, lined with tinfoil, then NOTHING will work inside it - unless the router is inside the box with you. And, more realistically, if you have a room with a tin ceiling it's probably not going to get reception from a router located in the room above.
And, unfortunately, if a particular wall has lots of pipes and wires in it, it may act a lot like that. Some materials, like thick cement, may weaken the signal... but large metal areas will almost totally block the signal...
(The solution there is to locate the router where it has a "clear line of sight" to your device - line of sight for radio waves.)
And, finally, SOME WiFi enabled devices just plain don't get solid reception... And, if it's the device that gets poor reception, the best router in the world may not fix it.
You may just have to be extra-careful where you position that device when you use it.
To go back to "line of sight"... With some devices the way in which you face the device itself makes a major difference... For example most modern laptop computers have excellent WiFi antennas that work from most directions... But WiFi cards for desktop computers tend to not work nearly as well... In part because, if the computer is angled wrong, the metal body of the computer may block the signal from the antenna.
(And, in that case, using a detachable antenna, which you can locate on top of the computer, or on a shelf above it, may solve the problem.)
And, yes, a better router, or multiple routers, may well improve the situation, but may still not be a complete solution. And, regardless of what various vendors like to claim, 50 feet is a pretty good distance for a WiFi signal to reach...
That router may easily reach 250 feet over "open water"... but it it's fifty feet away, and it's competing with a source of interference that's ten feet away, the story may end differently.
(So, if you have a detached garage, you're far better off running a wire to a separate router in the garage, rather than trying to reach it with a wireless link from a repeater or mesh.)
Also have you used a WiFi scanner to see what WiFi signals you’re competing with? I use iStumbler, but don’t know if it’s available for Windows, I’m sure there’s something good there. Also you can do a WiFi scan with your iPhone and the Apple AirPort Utility (even if you don’t have an Airport. You need to learn your environment better before throwing more hardware at it. View AttachmentThat's a good question. I don't know about competing wifi signals. The devices that lose connection, some are reasonably close to the router - say 15 ft, while others are further away 50 ft. |
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Post by Boomzilla on Jul 22, 2021 15:09:42 GMT -5
Netgear Orbi.
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Post by AudioHTIT on Jul 22, 2021 15:23:56 GMT -5
Also have you used a WiFi scanner to see what WiFi signals you’re competing with? I use iStumbler, but don’t know if it’s available for Windows, I’m sure there’s something good there. Also you can do a WiFi scan with your iPhone and the Apple AirPort Utility (even if you don’t have an Airport. You need to learn your environment better before throwing more hardware at it. View AttachmentThat's a good question. I don't know about competing wifi signals. The devices that lose connection, some are reasonably close to the router - say 15 ft, while others are further away 50 ft. You’ve mentioned thin walls and neighbors before, so I assume you’re in a ‘hostile environment” (lots of other WiFi networks around). Start with your iPhone and the Airport utility, look at what networks you can see, including yours. Note what channels they’re on and their strength (RSSI); typically you’ll see 2.4GHz channels 1, 6, 11 and 5GHz channels between about 36 and 160. What you want is that the channels you’re using are stronger than the same channels someone else is using. So if your 2.4 wifi is using channel 6 at -50dBm, you want to see your closest neighbor using channel 11, and you want the next channel 6 to be much lower. There are many more 5GHz channels so that’s less of a problem, hopefully you won’t have conflicts there. But most of your Smart stuff probably only works on 2.4 so that where you need to focus. The reason ‘rebooting’ your router often fixes things, is because when the router boots it looks at what channels are around you and chooses a channel that’s hopefully not in use, or that is weaker than the others. |
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Post by jbrunwa on Jul 22, 2021 16:04:26 GMT -5
That's a good question. I don't know about competing wifi signals. The devices that lose connection, some are reasonably close to the router - say 15 ft, while others are further away 50 ft. You’ve mentioned thin walls and neighbors before, so I assume you’re in a ‘hostile environment” (lots of other WiFi networks around). Start with your iPhone and the Airport utility, look at what networks you can see, including yours. Note what channels they’re on and their strength (RSSI); typically you’ll see 2.4GHz channels 1, 6, 11 and 5GHz channels between about 36 and 160. What you want is that the channels you’re using are stronger than the same channels someone else is using. So if your 2.4 wifi is using channel 6 at -50dBm, you want to see your closest neighbor using channel 11, and you want the next channel 6 to be much lower. There are many more 5GHz channels so that’s less of a problem, hopefully you won’t have conflicts there. But most of your Smart stuff probably only works on 2.4 so that where you need to focus. The reason ‘rebooting’ your router often fixes things, is because when the router boots it looks at what channels are around you and chooses a channel that’s hopefully not in use, or that is weaker than the others. I haven’t used this particular software but this is similar to professional tools I’ve used to analyze and map the WiFi in offices where there were other WiFi access points from neighboring offices, and even other floors pand obstructions. So something like this might help www.netspotapp.com/features.html |
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Post by garbulky on Jul 22, 2021 16:09:17 GMT -5
That's a good question. I don't know about competing wifi signals. The devices that lose connection, some are reasonably close to the router - say 15 ft, while others are further away 50 ft. You’ve mentioned thin walls and neighbors before, so I assume you’re in a ‘hostile environment” (lots of other WiFi networks around). Start with your iPhone and the Airport utility, look at what networks you can see, including yours. Note what channels they’re on and their strength (RSSI); typically you’ll see 2.4GHz channels 1, 6, 11 and 5GHz channels between about 36 and 160. What you want is that the channels you’re using are stronger than the same channels someone else is using. So if your 2.4 wifi is using channel 6 at -50dBm, you want to see your closest neighbor using channel 11, and you want the next channel 6 to be much lower. There are many more 5GHz channels so that’s less of a problem, hopefully you won’t have conflicts there. But most of your Smart stuff probably only works on 2.4 so that where you need to focus. The reason ‘rebooting’ your router often fixes things, is because when the router boots it looks at what channels are around you and chooses a channel that’s hopefully not in use, or that is weaker than the others. My router is in another room than all the other devices. So what happened was the router was working great for about three days. No glitches etc. Then it started dropping devices intermittenly just like the other one. I tried rebooting and it would work for a short time and start again. I wonder because I ahve so many devices on the 2.4 ghz band whether it's causing the radio to burn out. |
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Post by garbulky on Jul 22, 2021 16:20:50 GMT -5
The "problem" is that you may be looking at a variety of different issues - which may require different solutions. For example, if there is a lot of interference in a particular frequency band, then a router that covers multiple bands will probably help. (But, if the particular device that you're having trouble with only supports one of those bands, then it may not.) Likewise, signal is weakened by distance, but also to a large degree by specific materials between you and the router. To take the extreme case, if you have a closet, lined with tinfoil, then NOTHING will work inside it - unless the router is inside the box with you. And, more realistically, if you have a room with a tin ceiling it's probably not going to get reception from a router located in the room above.
And, unfortunately, if a particular wall has lots of pipes and wires in it, it may act a lot like that. Some materials, like thick cement, may weaken the signal... but large metal areas will almost totally block the signal...
(The solution there is to locate the router where it has a "clear line of sight" to your device - line of sight for radio waves.)
And, finally, SOME WiFi enabled devices just plain don't get solid reception... And, if it's the device that gets poor reception, the best router in the world may not fix it.
You may just have to be extra-careful where you position that device when you use it.
To go back to "line of sight"... With some devices the way in which you face the device itself makes a major difference... For example most modern laptop computers have excellent WiFi antennas that work from most directions... But WiFi cards for desktop computers tend to not work nearly as well... In part because, if the computer is angled wrong, the metal body of the computer may block the signal from the antenna.
(And, in that case, using a detachable antenna, which you can locate on top of the computer, or on a shelf above it, may solve the problem.)
And, yes, a better router, or multiple routers, may well improve the situation, but may still not be a complete solution. And, regardless of what various vendors like to claim, 50 feet is a pretty good distance for a WiFi signal to reach...
That router may easily reach 250 feet over "open water"... but it it's fifty feet away, and it's competing with a source of interference that's ten feet away, the story may end differently.
(So, if you have a detached garage, you're far better off running a wire to a separate router in the garage, rather than trying to reach it with a wireless link from a repeater or mesh.)
That's a good question. I don't know about competing wifi signals. The devices that lose connection, some are reasonably close to the router - say 15 ft, while others are further away 50 ft. So wouldn't several mesh routers in each part of the house solve the problem of reception or wifi interference? My wifi router is located in a room and it's hard to move it out of there. Other than about 4 devices every other device is in other rooms of the house. |
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Post by garbulky on Jul 22, 2021 16:35:29 GMT -5
Also am I correct that the mesh routers don't need to be routed via cables? They communicate via wifi to each other right?
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Post by AudioHTIT on Jul 22, 2021 17:39:13 GMT -5
You’ve mentioned thin walls and neighbors before, so I assume you’re in a ‘hostile environment” (lots of other WiFi networks around). Start with your iPhone and the Airport utility, look at what networks you can see, including yours. Note what channels they’re on and their strength (RSSI); typically you’ll see 2.4GHz channels 1, 6, 11 and 5GHz channels between about 36 and 160. What you want is that the channels you’re using are stronger than the same channels someone else is using. So if your 2.4 wifi is using channel 6 at -50dBm, you want to see your closest neighbor using channel 11, and you want the next channel 6 to be much lower. There are many more 5GHz channels so that’s less of a problem, hopefully you won’t have conflicts there. But most of your Smart stuff probably only works on 2.4 so that where you need to focus. The reason ‘rebooting’ your router often fixes things, is because when the router boots it looks at what channels are around you and chooses a channel that’s hopefully not in use, or that is weaker than the others. My router is in another room than all the other devices. So what happened was the router was working great for about three days. No glitches etc. Then it started dropping devices intermittenly just like the other one. I tried rebooting and it would work for a short time and start again. I wonder because I ahve so many devices on the 2.4 ghz band whether it's causing the radio to burn out. Do you have other networks around you? (Scanning with your iPhone would tell you). If so then interference from them can cause dropped connections, not your radio burning out. If you buy three mesh routers and start to interfere with your neighbor, what if he buys four? Mesh can be either wired or wireless, one does need to connect to your modem or WAN line. Maybe you should just try something. Or try scheduling your router to reboot every night (like cable boxes), that’s not uncommon. |
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Post by davidl81 on Jul 22, 2021 17:54:26 GMT -5
I run the eero mesh system in the house. Each unit can either be hard wired to a cat 5 connection, or tie into the WiFi network. I run three in a two story 3700 square foot house and they work great. One unit will replace your current router, and the extra units will be placed where you best see fit for coverage. My main need for it was good coverage outside after we built the pool and patio. One unit is in the kitchen which is about 10’ away from the rear door. Highly recommend and super simple to set up.
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Post by davidl81 on Jul 22, 2021 18:01:34 GMT -5
Also am I correct that the mesh routers don't need to be routed via cables? They communicate via wifi to each other right? Yes, generally they can do either. |
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Post by garbulky on Jul 22, 2021 20:25:30 GMT -5
I run the eero mesh system in the house. Each unit can either be hard wired to a cat 5 connection, or tie into the WiFi network. I run three in a two story 3700 square foot house and they work great. One unit will replace your current router, and the extra units will be placed where you best see fit for coverage. My main need for it was good coverage outside after we built the pool and patio. One unit is in the kitchen which is about 10’ away from the rear door. Highly recommend and super simple to set up. How many wifi devices in your house? |
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Post by davidl81 on Jul 22, 2021 20:37:12 GMT -5
I run the eero mesh system in the house. Each unit can either be hard wired to a cat 5 connection, or tie into the WiFi network. I run three in a two story 3700 square foot house and they work great. One unit will replace your current router, and the extra units will be placed where you best see fit for coverage. My main need for it was good coverage outside after we built the pool and patio. One unit is in the kitchen which is about 10’ away from the rear door. Highly recommend and super simple to set up. How many wifi devices in your house? Best guess is 25-30. 5 Apple TV’s, 4 iPads, 2 iPhones, various video game consoles, laptops, AVRs. I’m not home right now but I can check tomorrow. The Eero app shows you exactly which device is connected to which hotspot. |
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hemster
Global Moderator
Particle Manufacturer
...still listening... still watching
Posts: 51,951
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Post by hemster on Jul 22, 2021 20:38:20 GMT -5
I have been using a Netgear Orbi router with 2 satellites. I have around 35 wifi devices at a give time. Most of the smart devices are on 2.4 GHz but laptops, streamers on 5 GHz. I always have 5 bars in the home everywhere. I do plug in my work laptop via Ethernet. Backhaul is also via Ethernet. Reception is pretty good out to the edge of my driveway. Being mesh however, the sequence in which you power on Orbi will decide if you get a star topology (each satellite connecting directly to the router) or daisy chain (1 satellite to another and that one to the router). All in all, I have been happy with it but being around 3 years old, it's not wifi-6. When I get some wifi-6 devices I will upgrade then. |
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Post by novisnick on Jul 22, 2021 20:42:45 GMT -5
I finally opted to try the TP-Link Deco WiFi 6 Mesh WiFi System(Deco X20) - Covers up to 5800 Sq.Ft. , Replaces WiFi Routers and WiFi Extenders, Works with Alexa, 3-Pack. It’s been rock solid so far.
$225 including 9.95% tax. I purchased via Amazon and has a return window of 30 days. Each satellite has two Ethernet ports on them. The first one connects to your modem and all the other Ethernet ports can be used to run Ethernet. Either to the next satellite or a device needing/wanting an Ethernet cable.
TP-Link claims 150 device connectivity. I have about 30 devices and cover about 2,800 sq ft on two floors.
I’d recommend at least try this unit as you can return it within 30 days.
Good luck!
Nick
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Post by audiosyndrome on Jul 23, 2021 6:44:44 GMT -5
Get up off your butt and turn the lights on and off manually. Zero $$$.
Russ
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