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Post by davidl81 on Sept 10, 2021 16:24:52 GMT -5
He's comparing apples and oranges. Would you compare ride quality of a motorcycle with that of a sedan? If I bought the XMC-2, the priority would be for two channel PCM audio though it will still get used in HT. So in this case, yes, I would want it to perform at the distortion levels of DACs. I remember when the XMC-1 came out that I thought hey finally here's a purchase I could strive for that would measure as well as DACs and be fully balanced. Now, I'm not so sure. AudioHTITSadly, if I'm reading this right, it appears that the dolby filters cannot be turned off when it is not Dolby. Like in direct mode and stuff it looks like these filters are just allowed to be left in the loop. Does Reference Stereo not bypass all of this stuff? |
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Post by garbulky on Sept 10, 2021 16:28:04 GMT -5
If I bought the XMC-2, the priority would be for two channel PCM audio though it will still get used in HT. So in this case, yes, I would want it to perform at the distortion levels of DACs. I remember when the XMC-1 came out that I thought hey finally here's a purchase I could strive for that would measure as well as DACs and be fully balanced. Now, I'm not so sure. AudioHTITSadly, if I'm reading this right, it appears that the dolby filters cannot be turned off when it is not Dolby. Like in direct mode and stuff it looks like these filters are just allowed to be left in the loop. And if you bought a motorcycle your top priority would be the comfort and ride quality? Two channel DACS and multichannel processors are designed for very different things. It's also a reason why so many with HTP's of ANY brand also get a two channel DAC. Integrating the two can be a pain if not unfeasible. It is a sad state that processors lag such a ways behind DACs, but there are still good quality units. The XMC-2 ad description says [/font]This is why I would be interested in a component like this. Something that does it all without any compromise. |
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Post by garbulky on Sept 10, 2021 16:29:47 GMT -5
If I bought the XMC-2, the priority would be for two channel PCM audio though it will still get used in HT. So in this case, yes, I would want it to perform at the distortion levels of DACs. I remember when the XMC-1 came out that I thought hey finally here's a purchase I could strive for that would measure as well as DACs and be fully balanced. Now, I'm not so sure. AudioHTITSadly, if I'm reading this right, it appears that the dolby filters cannot be turned off when it is not Dolby. Like in direct mode and stuff it looks like these filters are just allowed to be left in the loop. Why would the dolby processing be used in a non-dolby format? If I'm playing 2 channel pcm without any up mixing then shouldn't there be a cleaner, less processed result? I don't know the answer to that. |
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Post by AudioHTIT on Sept 10, 2021 16:43:44 GMT -5
If I bought the XMC-2, the priority would be for two channel PCM audio though it will still get used in HT. So in this case, yes, I would want it to perform at the distortion levels of DACs. I remember when the XMC-1 came out that I thought hey finally here's a purchase I could strive for that would measure as well as DACs and be fully balanced. Now, I'm not so sure. AudioHTIT Sadly, if I'm reading this right, it appears that the dolby filters cannot be turned off when it is not Dolby. Like in direct mode and stuff it looks like these filters are just allowed to be left in the loop. And if you bought a motorcycle your top priority would be the comfort and ride quality? Two channel DACS and multichannel processors are designed for very different things. It's also a reason why so many with HTP's of ANY brand also get a two channel DAC. I think you both make good points, a device should be tested in a way appropriate for its use. However, some of us have considered the XMC & RMCās a way to consolidate parts of our two channel and home theatre systems into a single device. I started with the XMC-1 and sold my XDA and XSP, however I retain separate power amps and speakers. So I very much consider the RMC a āPre-Proā, and not only want a good HT processor (with associated CODECs), but a clean straight DAC & analog preamp as well. I had never considered that the USB DAC might always have Dolby processing (or maybe circuitry) in line. That said, like many others, Iāve been very pleased with the sound of my RMC-1 and know that some of this is āacademicā, but now I might wonder what a great two channel DAC might sound like through the balanced inās? |
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Post by geebo on Sept 10, 2021 16:44:19 GMT -5
And if you bought a motorcycle your top priority would be the comfort and ride quality? Two channel DACS and multichannel processors are designed for very different things. It's also a reason why so many with HTP's of ANY brand also get a two channel DAC. Integrating the two can be a pain if not unfeasible. It is a sad state that processors lag such a ways behind DACs, but there are still good quality units. The XMC-2 ad description says [/font]This is why I would be interested in a component like this. Something that does it all without any compromise. [/quote] Two channel DACS and home theater processors are different. Test a two channel DAC as if it were a multi channel processor and it would fail miserably.And the XMC-2 sounds as good as it always has. And that is very good. It didn't all of a sudden get worse a few days ago because of one review. Does the XMC-2 sound bad to you? |
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Post by beast001 on Sept 10, 2021 17:09:58 GMT -5
Integrating the two can be a pain if not unfeasible. It is a sad state that processors lag such a ways behind DACs, but there are still good quality units. The XMC-2 ad description says [/font]This is why I would be interested in a component like this. Something that does it all without any compromise. [/quote] Two channel DACS and home theater processors are different. Test a two channel DAC as if it were a multi channel processor and it would fail miserably.And the XMC-2 sounds as good as it always has. And that is very good. It didn't all of a sudden get worse a few days ago because of one review. Does the XMC-2 sound bad to you? [/quote] we know two channel DACS and home theater processors are different. We didnāt make the claim that the XMC-2 has ābetter performance equal to or better than the best stereo equipment currently on the marketā, Emotiva did. |
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Post by Lsc on Sept 10, 2021 17:15:08 GMT -5
If I bought the XMC-2, the priority would be for two channel PCM audio though it will still get used in HT. So in this case, yes, I would want it to perform at the distortion levels of DACs. I remember when the XMC-1 came out that I thought hey finally here's a purchase I could strive for that would measure as well as DACs and be fully balanced. Now, I'm not so sure. AudioHTITSadly, if I'm reading this right, it appears that the dolby filters cannot be turned off when it is not Dolby. Like in direct mode and stuff it looks like these filters are just allowed to be left in the loop. Why would the dolby processing be used in a non-dolby format? If I'm playing 2 channel pcm without any up mixing then shouldn't there be a cleaner, less processed result? Thatās my point as well. If a prepro is designed to have excellent 2 channel in addition to surround sound processing, the extra noise thatās introduced by the surround sound related chips or whatever needs to be isolated where the 2 channel sound is as clean as a stereo preamp. Seems like this Dolby upmixer introduced this noise post RMC1 test but Emotiva was not able to filter it out. Thus compromising its raisen dātere or how ever itās spelled š. |
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Post by audiosyndrome on Sept 10, 2021 17:22:11 GMT -5
[quote timestamp="1631306324" author=" geebo" source="/post/10 Two channel DACS and multichannel processors are designed for very different things. It's also a reason why so many with HTP's of ANY brand also get a two channel DAC. Integrating the two can be a pain if not unfeasible. It is a sad state that processors lag such a ways behind DACs, but there are still good quality units.. [/quote] Excellent sounding two channel DAC analog OUT any HT processor analog IN. Easy peasy. š Russ Thatās how I currently use my Oppo 205 (analog out) XMC-1 Analog in. |
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Post by foggy1956 on Sept 10, 2021 18:13:13 GMT -5
[quote timestamp="1631306324" author=" geebo " source="/post/10 Two channel DACS and multichannel processors are designed for very different things. It's also a reason why so many with HTP's of ANY brand also get a two channel DAC. Integrating the two can be a pain if not unfeasible. It is a sad state that processors lag such a ways behind DACs, but there are still good quality units.. Excellent sounding two channel DAC analog OUT any HT processor analog IN. Easy peasy. š Russ Thatās how I currently use my Oppo 205 (analog out) XMC-1 Analog in. [/quote] Thought the Oppo did multi channel analog out? |
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Post by geebo on Sept 10, 2021 18:16:28 GMT -5
[/font]This is why I would be interested in a component like this. Something that does it all without any compromise. [/quote] Two channel DACS and home theater processors are different. Test a two channel DAC as if it were a multi channel processor and it would fail miserably.And the XMC-2 sounds as good as it always has. And that is very good. It didn't all of a sudden get worse a few days ago because of one review. Does the XMC-2 sound bad to you? [/quote] we know two channel DACS and home theater processors are different. We didnāt make the claim that the XMC-2 has ābetter performance equal to or better than the best stereo equipment currently on the marketā, Emotiva did.[/quote] Have you compared the sound quality of the XMC-2 against a two channel DAC? |
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Post by garbulky on Sept 10, 2021 18:45:06 GMT -5
Integrating the two can be a pain if not unfeasible. It is a sad state that processors lag such a ways behind DACs, but there are still good quality units. The XMC-2 ad description says [/font]This is why I would be interested in a component like this. Something that does it all without any compromise. [/quote] I don't know. I haven't had the opportunity to hear it. I thought the XMC-1, sounded quite good in the brief time I had to hear it. |
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Post by garbulky on Sept 10, 2021 18:48:00 GMT -5
[quote timestamp="1631306324" author=" geebo" source="/post/10 Two channel DACS and multichannel processors are designed for very different things. It's also a reason why so many with HTP's of ANY brand also get a two channel DAC. Integrating the two can be a pain if not unfeasible. It is a sad state that processors lag such a ways behind DACs, but there are still good quality units.. Excellent sounding two channel DAC analog OUT any HT processor analog IN. Easy peasy. š Russ Thatās how I currently use my Oppo 205 (analog out) XMC-1 Analog in. [/quote] So here's the thing with that. If you use an HT processor you are likely using bass management with subs. Most processors will digitize your analog signal if you want to do bass management. Lots of dacs won't even use an analog volume control. So once again you have digitization. When you do, I think there's little point to a two channel DAC. Why not just use the one in the processor which is going to be doing the DAC work anyway, right. I do not currently have subs. I think if I did go surround I will probably add dual subs - if I can swing the WAF. |
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Post by audiosyndrome on Sept 10, 2021 19:30:41 GMT -5
Integrating the two can be a pain if not unfeasible. It is a sad state that processors lag such a ways behind DACs, but there are still good quality units.. Excellent sounding two channel DAC analog OUT any HT processor analog IN. Easy peasy. š Russ Thatās how I currently use my Oppo 205 (analog out) XMC-1 Analog in. Thought the Oppo did multi channel analog out?[/quote] I send multichannel from the Oppo via HDMI to the XMC. Russ |
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Post by rbk123 on Sept 10, 2021 19:32:48 GMT -5
Hi Lonnie, Do you think it would be worth your time to send a RMC1, RMC1L and XMC2 to ASR for their test results? If his results arenāt as close to yours then it would answer the question of could ASRās testing be flawed? I'm happy to send him units to test but I can tell you his results will be vastly different from ours if he follows his current way of testing. Heck, I would be happy to send him our QA test to run on his system and at that point I would expect him to get the exact same results. Lonnie Amir's results would be different from yours most definitely, but I believe the intent of the request is for Amir to have all 3 at hand and see if he gets the same results between them, of his own tests. This is reasonable since so much time has elapsed between his testing of the RMC-1 and now the -2. Who knows how many things have changed. |
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Post by audiosyndrome on Sept 10, 2021 19:33:14 GMT -5
Integrating the two can be a pain if not unfeasible. It is a sad state that processors lag such a ways behind DACs, but there are still good quality units.. Excellent sounding two channel DAC analog OUT any HT processor analog IN. Easy peasy. š Russ Thatās how I currently use my Oppo 205 (analog out) XMC-1 Analog in. So here's the thing with that. If you use an HT processor you are likely using bass management with subs. Most processors will digitize your analog signal if you want to do bass management. Lots of dacs won't even use an analog volume control. So once again you have digitization. When you do, I think there's little point to a two channel DAC. Why not just use the one in the processor which is going to be doing the DAC work anyway, right. I do not currently have subs. I think if I did go surround I will probably add dual subs - if I can swing the WAF. [/quote] I donāt use bass management or subs. My front left right speakers are full range. Russ |
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Post by foggy1956 on Sept 10, 2021 19:52:26 GMT -5
Excellent sounding two channel DAC analog OUT any HT processor analog IN. Easy peasy. š Russ Thatās how I currently use my Oppo 205 (analog out) XMC-1 Analog in. Thought the Oppo did multi channel analog out? I send multichannel from the Oppo via HDMI to the XMC. Russ[/quote] Understood, but if the Oppo offers multi channel analog out, how does it differ from the g3 processors? |
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Post by audiosyndrome on Sept 10, 2021 21:51:33 GMT -5
Thought the Oppo did multi channel analog out? I send multichannel from the Oppo via HDMI to the XMC. Russ Understood, but if the Oppo offers multi channel analog out, how does it differ from the g3 processors?[/quote] I donāt understand your question. But, if I play a multichannel Blu-ray or multichannel SACD I use the Oppos HDMI out to the XMC. All two channel sources go directly to the Oppo. These include Ethernet (the Oppo is a Roon endpoint), USB, SACD disks, etc. The Oppo analog out goes to the XMC analog in set for Reference Stereo mode. The XMC simply acts as a volume control for a clean direct path. Ninety percent of our listening is two channel. The Oppo has its own volume control but not used above. Iām about to take the XMC (temporarily) out of the system and output the Oppo directly into two of my XPA-1Ls. The Oppo will go to the XLR ins, a new phono stage with volume control will go to the RCA ins. Iāll flip the switch on the back of the XPAs depending on whether Iām listening to vinyl or digital. No preamp, no processor. šĀ Just for the fun of it. Russ |
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Post by cwt on Sept 10, 2021 21:58:32 GMT -5
Thought the Oppo did multi channel analog out? I send multichannel from the Oppo via HDMI to the XMC. Russ Understood, but if the Oppo offers multi channel analog out, how does it differ from the g3 processors?[/quote] With an oppo say 205/105 - because it doesnt have any dolby/dts decoders you avoid any 0 dbfs signal level noise . Just feed the dacs to power amps directly and if you want room eq for your sub frequencies there are subs with built in auto PEQ or PEQ you can set with REW say[ SVS].. Or get a gotham with DARO  If its a simple system with limited hdmi inputs that is  |
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Post by Lsc on Sept 11, 2021 0:12:28 GMT -5
Whatās being quoted here? What the heck! š
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Post by foggy1956 on Sept 11, 2021 6:25:59 GMT -5
I send multichannel from the Oppo via HDMI to the XMC. Russ Understood, but if the Oppo offers multi channel analog out, how does it differ from the g3 processors? With an oppo say 205/105 - because it doesnt have any dolby/dts decoders you avoid any 0 dbfs signal level noise . Just feed the dacs to power amps directly and if you want room eq for your sub frequencies there are subs with built in auto PEQ or PEQ you can set with REW say[ SVS].. Or get a gotham with DARO If its a simple system with limited hdmi inputs that is [/quote] Thank you, that is what I was looking for. I thought the Oppo provided multi channel analog out also, in which case it would seem it would need to decode the Dolby? |
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