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Post by derwin on Sept 6, 2021 10:38:27 GMT -5
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DYohn
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Post by DYohn on Sept 6, 2021 10:52:33 GMT -5
ASR is a joke site. Do not go by what you find there.
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Post by donh50 on Sept 6, 2021 10:54:27 GMT -5
Already under discussion, sort-of: emotivalounge.proboards.com/thread/59158/asr-xmc-2-reviewTwo comments: 1. Supposedly the RMC-1 is based on the same architecture and measured better (after some fixes driven by the review and back and forth between Amir and Emotiva) so there is hope this can be cured in FW. 2. While poor relative to many other products, this level of noise and distortion is still very unlikely to be audible. I keep waiting for the bugs to be worked out to trade in my XMC-1. |
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Post by audiosyndrome on Sept 6, 2021 11:00:54 GMT -5
I think Amir was more upset by the poor ergonomics rather than the poor measurements. I have a 4K Oppo 205, taking the plunge this week on a 4K LG OLED or Samsung QLED and was thinking of trading in my six year old XMC-1 to complete the 4K acquisition. Don’t know now. 😳
Maybe just upgrade the XMC-1 to 4K. 🤞
Russ
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Post by audiosyndrome on Sept 6, 2021 11:14:55 GMT -5
ASR is a joke site. Do not go by what you find there. One might say you’re post is a joke as you provide no supporting evidence to your subjective statement. Russ |
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DYohn
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Post by DYohn on Sept 6, 2021 11:18:06 GMT -5
ASR is a joke site. Do not go by what you find there. One might say you’re post is a joke as you provide no supporting evidence to your subjective statement. Russ Ah, therefor it would be loved by the ASR cult if I included a spurious measurement graph?  |
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Post by derwin on Sept 6, 2021 11:18:47 GMT -5
ASR is a joke site. Do not go by what you find there. I do tend to agree the groupthink there is kind of terrifying. But those measurements, if objective and repeatable, are bad. Since they’re all I’ve seen they’re all I have to go on now. Particularly the LF noise. The crazy THD could be a software thing, but noise is usually HW. |
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Post by JKCashin on Sept 6, 2021 11:21:43 GMT -5
I don't know why people think I am trying to denigrate the ASR author. I was ASKING, not accusing. Is he credible. Apparently taking the shortcut of asking "Is this guy a quack?" as opposed to "does this person know what they are talking about" struck some kind of nerve.
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Post by JKCashin on Sept 6, 2021 11:27:16 GMT -5
To get back on topic, what I really would like to understand is how did this XMC-2 measure so differently than the RMC-1, assuming all other things were equal. As some have pointed out it would be nice to know what FW version was used in both case so we could know just how "equal" the two batteries of tests were.
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DYohn
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Post by DYohn on Sept 6, 2021 11:31:24 GMT -5
The reason ASR is a joke is not because of the cult mentality but because the site refuses to discuss or reveal their measurement techniques or test conditions so they might be repeated in a bonafied lab situation, the site simply lists test equipment used and a "trust me, I used to work for Microsoft" attitude. I used to work for THX, Sony and Blaupunkt, but even if I wanted to brag about that experience and purchase an Audio Precision tester and go into business attacking equipment on the Internet, I would not. Because I have integrity.
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Post by creimes on Sept 6, 2021 11:51:50 GMT -5
He recently tested the Chane A1.5 and gave them a poor review both by graph and his dislikes of them being highly bright speakers but I have yet to read an actual poor review from an end user, so there is also that whole thread going on as well(not here) but there are so many owners chiming in on how they do not have the same feelings about the speaker, I'm not too well versed on that site or Amir himself but it seems if he tests something and gets poor results he is biased to the product ?? that's why I prefer to just listen to it, to this day I cannot believe how good my XMC-1 sounds for 2ch use, but then again those are my findings and who the hell am I haha, but many have the same findings considering it is a HT processor first and foremost. I wonder if he ever tested the Marantz AV7702, because to me that thing was dull and lifeless for 2ch use  Chad |
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Post by JKCashin on Sept 6, 2021 11:52:57 GMT -5
ASR is a joke site. Do not go by what you find there. I do tend to agree the groupthink there is kind of terrifying. But those measurements, if objective and repeatable, are bad. Since they’re all I’ve seen they’re all I have to go on now. I'd like to address this "measurements, if objective and repeatable". Perhaps I am misunderstanding the word "objective"... I can take a measurement and show how it's undexpected and "bad", but if the thing I am measuring is not audible, does it matter? |
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Post by derwin on Sept 6, 2021 11:55:29 GMT -5
To get back on topic, what I really would like to understand is how did this XMC-2 measure so differently than the RMC-1, assuming all other things were equal. As some have pointed out it would be nice to know what FW version was used in both case so we could know just how "equal" the two batteries of tests were. I’d love to understand the causes as well. It could be anything from old firmware, a faulty unit, cheap parts, poor QC, faulty tests, or many other explanations, including that the XMC-2 is just not as good a prepro as we all had hoped. Other than sharing what firmware he used, assuming the testing methods are the same as other ASR reviews, I think it is on Emotiva to explain this, not ASR. If they have units in the wild that perform this way, the review website isn’t responsible for debugging it. |
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Post by derwin on Sept 6, 2021 11:59:15 GMT -5
I do tend to agree the groupthink there is kind of terrifying. But those measurements, if objective and repeatable, are bad. Since they’re all I’ve seen they’re all I have to go on now. I'd like to address this "measurements, if objective and repeatable". Perhaps I am misunderstanding the word "objective"... I can take a measurement and show how it's undexpected and "bad", but if the thing I am measuring is not audible, does it matter? Audibility and objective measurements are two very different things. I, like many here, wanted to buy a device that was audibly transparent beyond all certainty. I thought I was paying for a unit that provided close to 100 dB of THD+N performance. I’d feel more comfortable saying that is certainly transparent beyond audibility. Whether you care about that is a different question. These measures say the thing I actually purchchased performed far worse than I thought. |
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Post by creimes on Sept 6, 2021 12:04:34 GMT -5
What or how you hear something compared to how it's scientifically measured are two totally different things, if something technically measures good but you don't like how it sounds or something technically measures bad but you do like how it sounds, or what about if it measures good and sounds good or measures bad and sounds bad, the end result is I will only enjoy it if I like how it sounds/performs in my system.
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Post by donh50 on Sept 6, 2021 12:10:54 GMT -5
I don't know why people think I am trying to denigrate the ASR author. I was ASKING, not accusing. Is he credible. Apparently taking the shortcut of asking "Is this guy a quack?" as opposed to "does this person know what they are talking about" struck some kind of nerve. brutiarti was the one questioning his technical expertise based upon his writing and proofing skills. But yes, to me asking if someone is credible, is better than asking if he is a quack, but that's just how I interpret things. The 'net is a horrible way to communicate; too much is lost without "being there" IMO. The tone and expression that go along with "Is he a quack?" can drastically change the perception. Many years ago my wife made some technically incorrect statement I labeled as "ignorant". I did not think anything of it, having had that label correctly applied to me many times, and it was in the middle of explaining something (I have no idea what after all this time). She immediately went ballistic because to her "ignorant" meant "stupid" (which she is not). I had to explain I was as ignorant of her field as she was as mine, and that lack of intelligence was not implied by the word, simply a lack of knowledge. So even in person words and interpretations can be a slippery slope... Back to the XMC-2, I doubt the issues are audible, but they may be easy to fix. One unknown is the FW rev used, but I suspect that discussion is already being held in the background. I am crossing my fingers it was another case of the unit shipping with older FW and needing an update. It is a little vexing that what, over a year after release, there are still significant FW bugs? But such is life these days... IME most AVRs do better, but then again the biggest counter example is Windows 10 and the number of on-going bugs years after release. |
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Post by derwin on Sept 6, 2021 12:11:38 GMT -5
What or how you hear something compared to how it's scientifically measured are two totally different things, if something technically measures good but you don't like how it sounds or something technically measures bad but you do like how it sounds, or what about if it measures good and sounds good or measures bad and sounds bad, the end result is I will only enjoy it if I like how it sounds/performs in my system. +100. Measurements are not the most relevant thing for everyone. I wouldn’t want to imply otherwise. But they are very relevant for many of us Edited: for tone |
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Post by monkumonku on Sept 6, 2021 12:17:52 GMT -5
A product sounds great to your ears and you are happy with your purchase. Then you see test results of your product and it does not measure very well. Do you (a) keep the product because as far as you are concerned, it sounds great to you, or (b) are you so bothered and afflicted by the test results that you don't like your product anymore? And, if you are an (a) and someone else is a (b), or vice versa, do you really care? Or does that bother you also?  |
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ttocs
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Post by ttocs on Sept 6, 2021 13:01:50 GMT -5
Based upon what is written in the review, the facts are these.
It's a broken XMC-2 with no video and delayed reaction to commands. It's a non-starter.
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Post by tabbycph on Sept 6, 2021 13:02:39 GMT -5
Based upon what is written in the review, the facts are these. It's a broken XMC-2 with no video and delayed reaction to commands. It's a non-starter. Yes the testet one must be broken. |
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. This isn't pretty, and not commensurate with the $$s paid for these things.
. This isn't pretty, and not commensurate with the $$s paid for these things.
