MC-1

[bolle]

It is quite insane, over here in Germany even used car prices have gone significantly up, due to the chip shortage. Cars are produced partially, parked in hundreds and thousands to wait for the final electronics to be integrated when the parts are available again.

Our company luckily stockpiled in advance for 2 years of production where it was possible...

Really crazy at the moment. Everything getting more expensive and a lot being in short supply.

[Chris]

I got my MC-1 this week. I needed this because I really needed EARC support to work with my 2021 Sony A80J OLED TV. The MC-1 is a win and works without issue with my Sony. I have been suffering for better part of a year with the XMC-2 which only worked with ARC after lots of drama each time it turned on. MC-1 now just works as it should. I run all my apps on the built in Google TV and things like Atmos from Netflix are now working. I am hearing some low-end rumble sounds from the LFE sub on certain apps like YouTube TV which is still only 2.0 audio when using the Dolby Upmixer on the MC-1. I can't figure out why the LFE sounds so loud? I think this is a bug. Audio from apps using 5.1 mixes works and sounds fine.

There are still some pops when audio formats switch. Seems less than XMC-2 but still there. I have several other ARC devices hooked up to other TVs in my home and they never pop? Why can't Emotiva fix this is a puzzle to me?

I am not using the MC-1 for two channel listening.

Now I have setup an HT Bypass using the great Channel Islands PLC-1 passive preamp. I have an RPi Zero 2 W feeding a Khadas Toneboard as a Roon endpoint. I also have my Oppo 203 analog output connected for Roon and SACD. Finally, I have my two turntables feeding my Gold Note PH-10 phono amp hooked into the PLC-1. This sounds fantastic.

With the HT Bypass, I now have the best of both worlds in two channels and 5.1 surround audio.

[predator290]

Did you run emo q? It boosted my rel sub to +10db. Way too loud. Had to bring it down to 0. Think it’s a bug or something.

[Chris]

Feb 12, 2022 15:10:57 GMT -5 predator290 said:

Did you run emo q? It boosted my rel sub to +10db. Way too loud. Had to bring it down to 0. Think it’s a bug or something.

I do not run any EQ or automated setup. Set distance and levels manually "the old fashioned way" with laser pointer and sound level meter.

My LFE setting in the MC-1 is at zero. My Martin Logan Grotto i subwoofer is about 1/3 volume using LFE input only. My main Martin Logan ESL 13a speakers are set to Bypass for the crossover. These low bass rumbles are not coming out of the Martin Logan front speakers. All other speakers are "small" with 80hz crossover default and slopes.

The sound I am hearing is a very low frequency rumble that comes and goes on 2.0 channel upmixed audio. It is very low in frequency. I just don't think it should be there at the volume level it is playing.

When I play 5.1 mixed audio tracks the LFE sub levels are just about pefect and correct.

Very confused. This processor stuff is still too buggy considering it is 2022?

More info. I just tried setting my center speaker (Martin Logan Motif) to "Large" i.e. Bypass. This may have helped a little. I don't consider the Motif a large speaker ((73–20,000 Hz ± 3db) but how much low frequency sound is sent to a center speaker? The low rumble effect is very evident on comercials such as the brand-new Samsung S22 ads. I am going to experiment with the center speaker as large to see if it mitigates things a bit.

I still think something fishey is going on?

[jbrunwa]

Feb 12, 2022 16:00:39 GMT -5 Chris said:

Feb 12, 2022 15:10:57 GMT -5 predator290 said:

Did you run emo q? It boosted my rel sub to +10db. Way too loud. Had to bring it down to 0. Think it’s a bug or something.

I do not run any EQ or automated setup. Set distance and levels manually "the old fashioned way" with laser pointer and sound level meter.

My LFE setting in the MC-1 is at zero. My Martin Logan Grotto i subwoofer is about 1/3 volume using LFE input only. My main Martin Logan ESL 13a speakers are set to Bypass for the crossover. These low bass rumbles are not coming out of the Martin Logan front speakers. All other speakers are "small" with 80hz crossover default and slopes.

The sound I am hearing is a very low frequency rumble that comes and goes on 2.0 channel upmixed audio. It is very low in frequency. I just don't think it should be there at the volume level it is playing.

When I play 5.1 mixed audio tracks the LFE sub levels are just about pefect and correct.

Very confused. This processor stuff is still too buggy considering it is 2022?

More info. I just tried setting my center speaker (Martin Logan Motif) to "Large" i.e. Bypass. This may have helped a little. I don't consider the Motif a large speaker ((73–20,000 Hz ± 3db) but how much low frequency sound is sent to a center speaker? The low rumble effect is very evident on comercials such as the brand-new Samsung S22 ads. I am going to experiment with the center speaker as large to see if it mitigates things a bit.

I still think something fishey is going on?

I don’t know if this is what you are hearing but . I’ve heard rumble on some broadcast content. I thought it might be their content normalization to make it louder as sometimes it seemed more pronounced when there was only ambient sound in the content.

[Chris]

Feb 12, 2022 16:38:01 GMT -5 jbrunwa said:

Feb 12, 2022 16:00:39 GMT -5 Chris said:

I do not run any EQ or automated setup. Set distance and levels manually "the old fashioned way" with laser pointer and sound level meter.

My LFE setting in the MC-1 is at zero. My Martin Logan Grotto i subwoofer is about 1/3 volume using LFE input only. My main Martin Logan ESL 13a speakers are set to Bypass for the crossover. These low bass rumbles are not coming out of the Martin Logan front speakers. All other speakers are "small" with 80hz crossover default and slopes.

The sound I am hearing is a very low frequency rumble that comes and goes on 2.0 channel upmixed audio. It is very low in frequency. I just don't think it should be there at the volume level it is playing.

When I play 5.1 mixed audio tracks the LFE sub levels are just about pefect and correct.

Very confused. This processor stuff is still too buggy considering it is 2022?

More info. I just tried setting my center speaker (Martin Logan Motif) to "Large" i.e. Bypass. This may have helped a little. I don't consider the Motif a large speaker ((73–20,000 Hz ± 3db) but how much low frequency sound is sent to a center speaker? The low rumble effect is very evident on comercials such as the brand-new Samsung S22 ads. I am going to experiment with the center speaker as large to see if it mitigates things a bit.

I still think something fishey is going on?

I don’t know if this is what you are hearing but . I’ve heard rumble on some broadcast content. I thought it might be their content normalization to make it louder as sometimes it seemed more pronounced when there was only ambient sound in the content.

Okay, I think I have found my error on the low end rumbling bass I am hearing. My Martin Logan Grotto i subwoofer has a control labled 25hz level. I had ignored it because I am only using the LFE input and erroneously thought it was not operative in LFE mode. I had the control cranked at max at 10+. Dialing that back to about -3 seems to have gone a long way to eliminating my excessive rumble. So chalk it up to user error. Thanks.

[pauli]

I'm a new MC-1 owner with a 5.1.4 configuration, The MC-1 replaced a working UMC-200.

Did you other buyers get a printed MC-1 manual? I didn't, so I'm going by the online manual on the product page.

Page 32 discusses available sound fields. Pure, Direct, Stereo, and All Stereo modes are listed, along with a description of their audio characteristics. But there is no All Stereo option available on the MC-1

In the specifications on page 35 it lists sound fields again. Here the list includes Pure, Direct, Multi Channel, Dolby Upmix and DTS Neural:X. But there is no explanation of what these sound fields are.

I have tried playing Atmos tracks on both Multi Channel and Dolby Upmix. Both seem to provide the same sound field including active height channels. Is there a difference? I believe Dolby Upmix can also be selected for stereo or 5.1 signals. And then it seems to function as an upmixer similar to the old PLIIx. Is there a way to downmix Atmos to straight 5.1 other than specifying the system as being only 5.1 capable in setup?

Can anyone point me to some clarification?

On another note I have had no issues or glitches as of yet. The new Emo-Q is a welcome upgrade, though it keeps trying to set my sub as being 27 feet away, when its only 10. I'm still dialing in the bass.

[pauli]

So I got some time to do some experimenting. Here are my conclusions so far:

There is no input/mode combination that does not perform bass management (BM). I assume this means all analog inputs get digitized. I believe, based on the ASR test results, any digital input greater than 48kHz is downsampled to 48kHz or possibly 44.1Hhz.

I did not fully test EQ characteristics yet, but I believe EQ is applied to any source not set to bypass in the Input setup or when the processor is set to Pure mode.

For stereo digital inputs (HDMI & coax) and stereo Analog inputs,
Pure = BM
Direct = BM + EQ
Stereo = BM + EQ
Multi Channel = "all Stereo" Height channels are active as stereo
Dolby Upmix = Faux surround with active Height channels

Incidentally if you set any input to "no Video" in setup such as a turntable, you will lose the On Scree Display (OSD) from the MC-1. To get around this, set the video for those sources to an unused but enabled HDMI input. The OSD will the become accessible.


For 5.1 inputs
Pure = BM, all floor channels are active
Direct = BM + EQ, all floor channels are active
Stereo = BM + EQ, downmixes to Stereo, surrounds are not active, heights are not active
Multi channel = BM + EQ, processes to an "all stereo" mode. Height channels are active as stereo
Dolby Upmix = BM + EQ, keeps base 5.1 channels. Upmixes Faux surround to height channels

Setting 5.1 to play as Multi channel and getting "All Stereo" seems odd.

Atmos Inputs
Pure = BM, all floor channels are active, Heights are active
Direct = BM + EQ, all floor channels are active, Heights are active
Stereo = BM + EQ, downmixes to Stereo, surrounds are not active, heights are not active
Multi Channel = BM + EQ, keeps base 5.1 channels and height channels. Seems identical to Direct and Dolby Upmix.
Dolby Upmix = BM + EQ, keeps base 5.1 channels and height channels. Seems identical to Direct and Multi Channel.

IMO the loss of a true "Pure" mode as can be found on my UMC-200 is significant, especially for an analog source.
I also am not fond of there being no way to downmix Atmos to straight 5.1

[cofford]

Has anyone heard when these might be back in stock? I got the standard answer from Emotiva of "our restock times may vary". Totally understand with the current challenges, but I was hoping someone had more info.

[AudioHTIT]

Feb 19, 2022 0:04:32 GMT -5 pauli said:

…
I have tried playing Atmos tracks on both Multi Channel and Dolby Upmix. Both seem to provide the same sound field including active height channels. Is there a difference? …

I believe by Dolby’s definition, an Atmos track will only use the Atmos processor, and not the DSU — which is intended for non-Atmos material. So to me it seems your processor is working properly.

[pauli]

So lets talk EMO-Q with the MC-1.

The MC-1 has some new options and capabilities, but I'm not sure I full understand them. I'm also not sure there aren't glitches involved. I hope someone from Emotiva Tech service reads this and responds.

I also own a UMC-200 which is still active in the system. When my UMC-200 runs its EMO-Q routine, it automatically sets what it feels are the best options for the Bass Management crossover settings. It can also determine if a given speaker is out of phase with the rest of the system. As far as I can tell, the MC-1 does not do any of this. The manual only states that the default settings should work for most systems. So crossover settings need to be checked and set manually. No big deal. I can always run the UMC-200 routine and transfer the resulting settings to the MC-1. Or alternately, choose by ear.

New in the MC-1 is a graphic representation of the response curves. Though the manual does not explain this (at least not the on-line manual), the raw measurement for the channel being analyzed is given by the red curve. The applied correction filters are in given in the filter listing and shown graphically by the light blue curve. The computed corrected response is given by the dark blue curve. This is a nice enhancement.

As with the UMC-200 you can run the EMO-Q as a full routine, where it sets levels, delays, and EQ across all channels sequentially. New with the MC-1 is the capability for individual measurements. So one can choose say, the Front Left channel and run the routine only for that channel. This is a welcome improvement as well. One can also run the routine for channel level and distance separately from the EQ routine. Also a nice option to have.

There are a few additional options on the EMO-Q control screen. One can choose to measure with "no EQ" or a measurement "with EQ". I assumed the "no EQ" option would simply measure the response of the chosen channel with no EQ applied (flat). Conversely, selecting the "with EQ" option would measure the response with the applied EQ. But it doesn't seem to work that way. When I activate either of these options, it simply plays some test tones and asks me if I want to save the results? HUH?? Nothing seems to update. It does not update the response plot. I'm not sure of the point here. Am I doing something wrong? Maybe there is some reset step I'm skipping? The manual doesn't even mention this stuff.

Back to the level/distance measurement routine. My UMC-200 performs this and is spot on to within an inch or two on distance, every time. This is true of the MC-1 with the exception of the subwoofer measurement. Every time I run it, the MC-1 specifies 26.5 feet as the distance from the measurement spot to the sub. The true distance is right around 10.5 feet. The UMC-200 returns the distance correctly. Why would this be? What could be causing the MC-1 to measure a distance that is nearly 2.5x what it actually is? In a variation of this test, I ran the routine with the pickup mic only 8 inches from the subwoofer cone. The MC-1 returned a distance of 6 feet. I should point out that this is an old school Sunfire True Signature subwoofer. It has no DSP circuitry at all, so there can be no delay from the sub itself.

Lastly, once the EMO-Q routine is complete it would be typical to want to compare the system response with and without the EQ. To do this one only has to switch the sound field mode back and forth between Pure and Direct. Pure mode bypasses EQ, Direct mode applies EQ. Simple right? Not really. There is such a significant volume difference between the two modes. In my case the Pure mode is always louder, by 3-5 dB at least. Hence, the Pure mode always seems to sound better when trying to evaluate this way by ear. I dont recall the UMC-200 having this issue, but I'll have to re-check. You could conceivably enable an unused HDMI spot and specify the same audio & video as the source you want to compare. In that way you could also level match for volume using the options in the input setup menu. The problem with this is the 5 seconds or so it takes to switch HDMI inputs. Hardly a good way to make a comparison.

I'd really like to get comments on your experiences with these issues.

[texasninja956]

New MC1 owner here! It arrived earlier this week… I was a little apprehensive about buying an emotiva processor because of rumors I had heard about other models being buggy but I figured I’d give it a shot!

Overall, I was delighted to find that the sound quality is very good. As far as I can tell, it sounds every bit as good as the marantz av7705 it replaced. I am having a few cec issues with it not powering on/off with other devices or not switching inputs automatically but it’s not the end of the world to me. It’s used in my dedicated theater and my wife isn’t down there asking me how to switch inputs anyway.

One issue that I’ve noticed is that I fast forward too much in plex i get a screeching sound. I also notice it a little when I switch audio modes. Hopefully, they can get it worked out. I’ve read through all the pages of this thread though and it sounds like many of you feel like that probably won’t happen.

In any case, I’m very pleased with it and the fact that I can now use top mids. Now I’m just trying to sort through the 7.1.4 limitations of dts:x and this 7.1.4 pinning some studios are doing to figure out how to best utilize the top mids. Any chance this processor will get the dts:x pro firmware upgrade like the more expensive options?

[texasninja956]

Does anyone else use a Panasonic ub420 with their Mc1? For some reason, I can play Netflix through it just fine but lose picture whenever I try to play a 4k uhd disk. I can only get it to display an image when I press the Netflix button. I tried hdmi 3 and 4 as well as swapping hdmi cables. I’ve also turned off cec because it was too glitchy…. I don’t know this thing might be going back.

[cawgijoe]

Mar 27, 2022 18:58:38 GMT -5 texasninja956 said:

Does anyone else use a Panasonic ub420 with their Mc1? For some reason, I can play Netflix through it just fine but lose picture whenever I try to play a 4k uhd disk. I can only get it to display an image when I press the Netflix button. I tried hdmi 3 and 4 as well as swapping hdmi cables. I’ve also turned off cec because it was too glitchy…. I don’t know this thing might be going back.

Looking at the owner’s manual, it states that you can turn on/off the HDMI outputs. There is an “HDMI out” button on the remote that you can press to cycle through. See if that solves the issue.

[texasninja956]

I’ll give that a shot today but I shouldn’t have to do that every time I switch inputs. I learned that I have intermittent problems with hdmi switching with all of my hdmi inputs… power cycling the Mc1 helped, but the problem is more pronounced with the ub420. I have the least amount of trouble with the shield and firestick because I can press the menu buttons on their remotes to get the Mc1 to detect a signal. However, the ub420 seems to give me the most trouble. Using all monoprice certified hdmi cables that I used with my other receivers and av7705. Completely frustrated with it. They must be using the cheapest hdmi boards imaginable. I guess you get what you pay for.

[cawgijoe]

Mar 28, 2022 9:53:23 GMT -5 texasninja956 said:

I’ll give that a shot today but I shouldn’t have to do that every time I switch inputs. I learned that I have intermittent problems with hdmi switching with all of my hdmi inputs… power cycling the Mc1 helped, but the problem is more pronounced with the ub420. I have the least amount of trouble with the shield and firestick because I can press the menu buttons on their remotes to get the Mc1 to detect a signal. However, the ub420 seems to give me the most trouble. Using all monoprice certified hdmi cables that I used with my other receivers and av7705. Completely frustrated with it. They must be using the cheapest hdmi boards imaginable. I guess you get what you pay for.

Maybe somebody else can jump in here to help sort things. I don't own an MC-1, just looked through the manual to try and help. I would think that the choice you make would "hold"...? so you wouldn't have to do it all the time.

Have you tried calling support?

[jbeemon]

This is just a wild guess because I'm not familiar with Panasonic UB420. When watching Netflix you're "probably" watching at 1080P (unless you've sprung for their highest tier, and even then if your internet speeds are not up to 2160P, Netflix will downgrade resolution automatically). When you swap to a 4k UHD movie, you are forcing a 4K signal and your cables are not up to it. They are ok for 1080P but not 2160P. I know you said you were using "certified" cables, but how old are they. Anything not made in the last two years or so is probably not certified by HDMI.org. You need cables that are labeled "Premium" or "Ultra" high speed and carry the proper certification label from HDMI.org. Your problem shows all the signs of HDMI handshaking problems. The two units fail to negotiate because the cables do net have the bandwidth to carry the 4K signal. I had the Marantz AV7704 and it would sometimes downgrade the resolution. I would feed it a 4K signal but my projector said it was projecting at 1080. That's when I started researching cables and ended up with BlueJeans premium HDMI cables. Problems went away. Like I said, this is just a wild guess, my two cents worth.

[bobcel]

Question. For those using any streaming device, Firestick, NVIDIA, ect.. How is the sound processing in your system? I have been waiting for an upgrade HDMI board for my XMC1,certainly not looking good, edging towards getting an MC1. Currently my work around is streaming directly to my Sony( for optimum video) and Optical out to the processor. Can I expect an improvement in sound with direct access to the processor when using a streaming device/service?
Just curious, thanks

[texasninja956]

Thank you guys for your responses. I believe the issue was my hdmi cable. HDMI switching is still a little slow and I might have to push the menu (or netflix) button to get the mc1 to detect a signal from the ub420. However, I have to do that much less often with the new hdmi cable. It was much more stable today. I have no issues with any of my streaming devices... I have an nvidia shield, atv4k, and firestick 4k all hooked up to the processor for different reasons. It's much easier to get the mc1 to detect the signal with those for some reason. I think the resolution changes someone alluded to above regarding netflix might have something to do with it detecting that a video signal is present.

In any case, I watched Sherlock Holmes today and it sounded fantastic!

[texasninja956]

Mar 28, 2022 17:48:36 GMT -5 bobcel said:

Question. For those using any streaming device, Firestick, NVIDIA, ect.. How is the sound processing in your system? I have been waiting for an upgrade HDMI board for my XMC1,certainly not looking good, edging towards getting an MC1. Currently my work around is streaming directly to my Sony( for optimum video) and Optical out to the processor. Can I expect an improvement in sound with direct access to the processor when using a streaming device/service?
Just curious, thanks

If I'm not mistaken, optical is capped at 5.1 and certain audio formats.  I pulled this from a quick google search: "Due to bandwidth restrictions, optical outputs do not support multichannel LPCM, Dolby Digital Plus, Dolby Atmos and DTS:X – or high-definition audio such as Dolby TrueHD and DTS-HD Master Audio."

Streaming services wouldn't be able to provide lossless formats, but you should benefit from the other formats--especially if you're using all 13 channels. The only streaming service I know of that provides lossless audio is Plex, but only via the nvidia shield.