cawgijoe
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Post by cawgijoe on Mar 15, 2022 7:07:10 GMT -5
I would take Emotiva up on the repair. They know their unit much better than a local shop would. Ask them if you could send it back to them under their shipper agreement with with whoever they are using now....UPS/Fedex...ask if you can pay them for their discounted rate. All they can do is say no, if yes you should be ahead of the game.
Use the original packaging which I hope you still have. If not, buy it from Emotiva.
As others have said, talk to them about giving the unit a good look-over and replacing any suspect caps, resistors, etc.
Let us know what you do.
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Post by leonski on Mar 15, 2022 15:25:23 GMT -5
The ONLY trouble with EMO is that Parts are NOT PARTS. By this? I'd only use Top Tier PS Capacitors. Rubycon United Chemi-Con (or Nippon Chemi-Con) Nichicon Sanyo/Suncon Panasonic Hitachi FPCAP or Functional Polymer Capacitor (ex-Fujitsu caps segment, which was bought by Nichicon) ELNA Similar idea applies to OTHER parts as well. You'd want 1% or better film rsistors in critical places. Not 'generic' or Carbon. Use Vishay or  While many generic transistors are made which fill thousands of part numbers? Again? Tier 1 manufacturers. If EMO had done this to beging with, you MIGHT not be wanting to send it off NOW..... Just an example? My near-40 year old Kenwood Integrated? CAPS ARE FINE. And are ELNA OEM material. It makes a long-term difference. |
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Post by audiobill on Mar 15, 2022 21:02:16 GMT -5
Maybe high end doesn’t need rethinking?
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cawgijoe
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Post by cawgijoe on Mar 16, 2022 7:23:44 GMT -5
Do we know that Emotiva actually uses subpar parts? I guess the question is why would they do that when top tier caps, resistors, etc are not expensive. Maybe it's because if you save $50 (guess) per unit sold....good for the bottom line? I'd like someone at Emotiva to address this...quality of parts used...Keith? emotivalounge.proboards.com/thread/58597/xpa-2-capacitors-upgradeEdit: found the above thread from last year....may or may not answer questions.... |
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KeithL
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Post by KeithL on Mar 16, 2022 11:41:50 GMT -5
1.
The Gen2 amps have a 5v standby supply that runs the circuitry that controls the other circuitry. (So it runs the front panel and supplies the power that energizes the relays that power the main power supply.) This is a separate little 5V 1A switching supply on its own little board and, from your symptoms, it's probably the problem. (You can check it with a meter, once you get at it, but be careful - there is potentially lethal voltage on it in several places.)
This is a cheap little module, which nobody bothers to fix, and for which any repair shop could easily find a suitable replacement. We don't sell them separately, and I can't officially recommend one, but something like this one would probably work: www.ebay.com/itm/161111723937
2. We use good quality commercial parts in our products... but we generally avoid "expensive premium parts".
"Premium parts" cost a lot more, usually won't sound any better, and may or may not actually last longer. Using them would make it very difficult to achieve our goal - which is to deliver high-end sound quality at affordable prices.
Modern electrolytic capacitors offer vastly superior electrical performance to their counterparts from decades ago (5x to 10x the capacitance value for equal size). However, in return, they may not last quite as long (for a part of similar price and performance). And, to be quite blunt, you aren't going to get an electrolytic capacitor that will last fifty years - at ANY price. (It's also worth noting that many parts these days are only produced by a limited number of factories - regardless of whose name, and price tag, ends up on them.)
Both the performance and reliability of most other parts have actually improved steadily and significantly over the years. (You don't even want to know what a 1% metal film resistor cost in 1950. In 1960 a "regular" resistor was +/-20% and 5% was considered "special".)
Do we know that Emotiva actually uses subpar parts? I guess the question is why would they do that when top tier caps, resistors, etc are not expensive. Maybe it's because if you save $50 (guess) per unit sold....good for the bottom line? I'd like someone at Emotiva to address this...quality of parts used...Keith? emotivalounge.proboards.com/thread/58597/xpa-2-capacitors-upgradeEdit: found the above thread from last year....may or may not answer questions.... |
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Post by leonski on Mar 16, 2022 14:41:13 GMT -5
Do we know that Emotiva actually uses subpar parts? I guess the question is why would they do that when top tier caps, resistors, etc are not expensive. Maybe it's because if you save $50 (guess) per unit sold....good for the bottom line? I'd like someone at Emotiva to address this...quality of parts used...Keith? emotivalounge.proboards.com/thread/58597/xpa-2-capacitors-upgradeEdit: found the above thread from last year....may or may not answer questions.... It all adds up. Building the SAME amp from the SAME schematic....but one of 2 very different ways might result in a different 'signature' and almost certainly different reliability........ Difference in cost in the least or Nearly Least expensive tier of serious hifi? It's a game of Pennies. It wouldnt' surprise me to learn that the amp built with all top tier parts had FEWER warranty claims, too. Parts are rated in MTBF....Mean Time Between Failure and higher is better. This is a statistical measure, and NO guarantee of individual performance. Every place and part of the amp is up for inpsection. NO stainless hardware. NO FR10 circuit boards. Some carbon resistors in non-critical places. Put more $$ where it can be SEEN. Maybe speaker binding posts? I don't know actual $$ savings potential, it varies by amp. But I'll stand by 'parts ain't parts'....... At RADIO SHACK, before they went away, I was able to buy a roll of various 1% resistors....1/2 watt? I dont' rememer. But it was VERY inexpensive. Vishay makes 'em as a commodity cheap part. I worked for a company making power devices. MOSFET and IGBT and even FRED (a special diode). ALL available basically as commodity devices. Not like a current generation CPU from Intel which'll run you to over 400$. CPU only. |
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cawgijoe
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Post by cawgijoe on Mar 17, 2022 7:21:19 GMT -5
Do we know that Emotiva actually uses subpar parts? I guess the question is why would they do that when top tier caps, resistors, etc are not expensive. Maybe it's because if you save $50 (guess) per unit sold....good for the bottom line? I'd like someone at Emotiva to address this...quality of parts used...Keith? emotivalounge.proboards.com/thread/58597/xpa-2-capacitors-upgradeEdit: found the above thread from last year....may or may not answer questions.... It all adds up. Building the SAME amp from the SAME schematic....but one of 2 very different ways might result in a different 'signature' and almost certainly different reliability........ Difference in cost in the least or Nearly Least expensive tier of serious hifi? It's a game of Pennies. It wouldnt' surprise me to learn that the amp built with all top tier parts had FEWER warranty claims, too. Parts are rated in MTBF....Mean Time Between Failure and higher is better. This is a statistical measure, and NO guarantee of individual performance. Every place and part of the amp is up for inpsection. NO stainless hardware. NO FR10 circuit boards. Some carbon resistors in non-critical places. Put more $$ where it can be SEEN. Maybe speaker binding posts? I don't know actual $$ savings potential, it varies by amp. But I'll stand by 'parts ain't parts'....... At RADIO SHACK, before they went away, I was able to buy a roll of various 1% resistors....1/2 watt? I dont' rememer. But it was VERY inexpensive. Vishay makes 'em as a commodity cheap part. I worked for a company making power devices. MOSFET and IGBT and even FRED (a special diode). ALL available basically as commodity devices. Not like a current generation CPU from Intel which'll run you to over 400$. CPU only. I'm not going to argue with you as you seem much more in the know on this then I am. I personally have not had any issues with failed capacitors, resistors, etc. in any of the Emotiva products I've owned so far. I do like the idea of "name brand" parts however. Even if they are not any better than the parts Emotiva uses, it's nice to have a warm and fuzzy. Shoot, Emotiva could even use this in their marketing as other companies have done. Please take all this with a big grain of salt.... With the help of an EE friend I've refurbished a Mcintosh 1900 receiver and we used capacitors purchased from Mouser that were name brand. Also very inexpensive. |
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Post by leonski on Mar 17, 2022 14:09:10 GMT -5
You're OK, cawgijoe.
I have an opinion, of course, about how stuff should be built and specd. The REAL deep end manufacturers.....those who make 5 digit amps or pre amps....that sort of thing, will go to some trouble testing different parts of the same spec.
They are 'voicing' the gear. EMO aims for what they call a 'neutral' sound. Keith has said words to that effect, several times.
The REAL test would be to build the same amp from the same schamatic.....TWO DIFFERENT WAYS.
As EMO builds it? AND With a selection of more expensive parts to which I'd include 'premium' circuit boards and mostly film resistors.
Could you tell the difference BY EAR?? Maybe. Should the premium version last longer? I'd suspect so......
Wasn't the Mc1900 an Early stereo receiver? How's that working out?
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cawgijoe
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Post by cawgijoe on Mar 17, 2022 14:30:10 GMT -5
You're OK, cawgijoe. I have an opinion, of course, about how stuff should be built and specd. The REAL deep end manufacturers.....those who make 5 digit amps or pre amps....that sort of thing, will go to some trouble testing different parts of the same spec. They are 'voicing' the gear. EMO aims for what they call a 'neutral' sound. Keith has said words to that effect, several times. The REAL test would be to build the same amp from the same schamatic.....TWO DIFFERENT WAYS. As EMO builds it? AND With a selection of more expensive parts to which I'd include 'premium' circuit boards and mostly film resistors. Could you tell the difference BY EAR?? Maybe. Should the premium version last longer? I'd suspect so...... Wasn't the Mc1900 an Early stereo receiver? How's that working out? Yes....built in the 1973 - 1979. pretty easy to service. Sounds great. Schematics are available. Heavy duty, high quality beast. |
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Post by leonski on Mar 17, 2022 21:21:24 GMT -5
From '73 to maybe '93 the stereo receiver was KING. Many available. And a VERY competitive space. Me? I'd go for one of the High $$ Japanese models....... www.ebay.com/itm/353924711980?hash=item52678e862c:g:AlsAAOSwZ5liEndjthis Pioneer? THEY want an imaginary 15 Grand for it. but just LOOK at all those buttons, knobs and Switches! And 2 sets of meters! |
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