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Post by AudioHTIT on Feb 3, 2022 10:49:57 GMT -5
I saw this chart comparing the major music streaming platforms and thought it might be useful for anyone trying to make a choice. I believe all of these services offer lossless streaming (either default or optional). You’re welcome to comment on your personal experience with these or other platforms. I realize there are dedicated threads for some of these services and I don’t mean to replace them (I’ll try to add some links), and though there will be inevitable comments, I’m not encouraging ‘player’ discussion here (Roon, Audirvana, JRiver, etc), this is about the music service. Just for fun I’m adding a poll for just the services listed here (or ‘Other’), please choose up to three services you actually subscribe to or use. Edit: The Amazon Music subscription is actually called ‘Unlimited’, that’s what the poll refers to.  |
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Post by AudioHTIT on Feb 3, 2022 10:50:08 GMT -5
I currently subscribe to both Apple Music (via a family plan subscription to Apple One), and Amazon Music Unlimited (I’ll probably drop Amazon when my renewal comes up in the spring).
As someone who is deep into the Apple ecosystem, I find Apple Music’s ubiquitous availability and synchronization on all my devices very compelling. My iPhone, iPad, MacBook and Minis, CarPlay, TV, Watch all offer access to my library. Often at night I‘ll explore new music on my iPad or TV, if I like it and add it to my library, it’s then available on my iPhone when I’m skiing or driving the next day. It’s rare that I can’t find music I’m looking for, but it occasionally happens.
Music on iOS and iPadOS offer lossless and bitperfect playback up to 192/24, TV is lossless but resamples everything to 48/24 (though still sounds very good). My biggest gripe is that the macOS player is not bitperfect, and resamples anything different than the system settings (but this is a player limitation and this thread is about services). Apple Music is also available on Windows and Android, but I have no experience there.
Amazon Music is now priced very well (if you’re already a Prime subscriber), and it too offers Lossless/bitperfect playback on iOS, and iPadOS, but has the same bitperfect limitation on macOS and Windows (not sure about Android). I’ve been happy with the music selection and quality, but as it’s redundant I no longer use it.
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cawgijoe
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Post by cawgijoe on Feb 3, 2022 10:54:20 GMT -5
I currently subscribe to both Apple Music (via a family plan subscription to Apple One), and Amazon Music (I’ll probably drop Amazon when my renewal comes up in the spring). As someone who is deep into the Apple ecosystem, I find Apple Music’s ubiquitous availability and synchronization on all my devices very compelling. My iPhone, iPad, MacBook and Minis, CarPlay, TV, Watch all offer access to my library. Often at night I‘lol explore new music on my iPad or TV, if I like it and add it to my library it’s available on my iPhone when I’m skiing or driving the next day. It’s rare that I can’t find music I’m looking for, but it occasionally happens. Music on iOS and iPadOS offer lossless and bitperfect playback up to 192/24, TV is lossless but resamples everything to 48/24 (though still sounds very good). My biggest gripe is that the macOS player is not bitperfect, and resamples anything different than the system settings (but this is a player limitation and this thread is about services). Apple Music is also available on Windows and Android, but I have no experience there. Amazon Music is now priced very well (if you’re already a Prime subscriber), and it too offers Lossless/bitperfect playback on iOS, and iPadOS, but has the same bitperfect limitation on macOS and Windows (not sure about Android). I’ve been happy with the music selection and quality, but as it’s redundant I no longer use it. What you said above mirrors my experience. I use Apple Music as part of the Apple One plan pretty much exclusively. We do have Amazon Prime mainly for the faster shipping option, but I rarely if ever use the Music feature. |
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Post by AudioHTIT on Feb 3, 2022 11:04:31 GMT -5
What you said above mirrors my experience. I use Apple Music as part of the Apple One plan pretty much exclusively. We do have Amazon Prime mainly for the faster shipping option, but I rarely if ever use the Music feature. To be clear, the Amazon Prime Music listed above is not the ‘free’ version that comes with Amazon Prime, it’s an extra cost ‘lossless’ option, and I should have used Amazon Music ‘Unlimited’. |
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Post by Jean Genie on Feb 3, 2022 11:10:48 GMT -5
Amazon Music is now priced very well (if you’re already a Prime subscriber), and it too offers Lossless/bitperfect playback on iOS, and iPadOS, but has the same bitperfect limitation on macOS and Windows ... If you could, can you explain the bitperfect limitation; what it is and how to check? I use Amazon Music HD and it sounds as good as my CD collection that I play via JRMC. Thanks |
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Post by bitsandbytes on Feb 3, 2022 11:34:17 GMT -5
Using Tidal through Roon for nearly all my musical listening in my living room. Enjoying the audio quality, interface and huge choice of recent releases. With a military discount, only $11.99 per month for their top tier listening  When driving or running on a treadmill, streaming Pandora through my Smartphone. Walt |
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Post by AudioHTIT on Feb 3, 2022 11:54:07 GMT -5
Amazon Music is now priced very well (if you’re already a Prime subscriber), and it too offers Lossless/bitperfect playback on iOS, and iPadOS, but has the same bitperfect limitation on macOS and Windows ... If you could, can you explain the bitperfect limitation; what it is and how to check? I use Amazon Music HD and it sounds as good as my CD collection that I play via JRMC. Thanks ‘Bitperfect’ is the term that is used when a music player has the ability to play each file at its native bit rate and depth. So for example if song 1 in the playlist is stored as 44/16 then that’s what’s passed on to the DAC and what the DAC converts, if song 2 is at 96/24 then the player also passes that rate / depth to the DAC. The alternative, and what I referred to above with the desktop versions of Apple and Amazon Music, is that whatever bitrate the file is in, it is first ‘resampled’ (up or down depending upon the system settings), and all files are sent to the DAC at the system rate. I suggested above that if you set your system (typically macOS or Windows) to 192/24 then the files would never be downsampled, which would be considered detrimental. The idea being that you don’t want any additional manipulation of the signal before you hear it. Bitperfect is the generic term used to imply that the player is sending the native bit rate, a common term used by some players to ‘turn on’ this feature is ‘Exclusive Mode’, meaning the player has exclusive use of the computer’s audio processing path. It has been discovered however, that even though Amazon Music now has an Exclusive mode, it doesn’t actually serve this purpose and files are still resampled by the system (I don’t know what their Exclusive mode actually does). An alternative viewpoint for setting your system rate might be that if ‘most’ of your files are say ripped CDs, then by setting your system to 44/16, most of your music would be bitperfect. However any higher rates would be downsampled. Ideally all players should have an Exclusive, Native, or some mode to send the files unaltered to the DAC. As you note, this is often an academic issue, as even when resampled the music can sound very good, this is especially true when it is upsampled. Sorry if this isn’t real clear, and I’m simplifying the explanation, but hope you get the idea. Edit: Oh, you can check by looking at the rate your DAC is receiving (if it tells you), if you see the same rate your system is set to then it is likely not bitperfect (again there’s a lot to this that I’m not going in to), and sorry, I don’t know JRiver, but believe it has an exclusive mode. Edit 2, I have a playlist made up of one song of each bitrate / depth for checking this. |
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cawgijoe
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Post by cawgijoe on Feb 3, 2022 12:14:31 GMT -5
What you said above mirrors my experience. I use Apple Music as part of the Apple One plan pretty much exclusively. We do have Amazon Prime mainly for the faster shipping option, but I rarely if ever use the Music feature. To be clear, the Amazon Prime Music listed above is not the ‘free’ version that comes with Amazon Prime, it’s an extra cost ‘lossless’ option, and I should have used Amazon Music ‘Unlimited’. Thanks for the clarification. |
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Post by geekmike on Feb 3, 2022 12:55:55 GMT -5
I had Amazon Music HD for about 9 months, did Tidal for 2 months, I've had a Spotify Family plan for years. I enjoyed the audio quality of the Amazon HD and Tidal streaming, but I found myself continuing to just listen to Spotify due to their playlist AI. The user interaction from Sportify is really hard to beat. If amazon's UI and playlist curation was better, i'd be there still.
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DYohn
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Post by DYohn on Feb 3, 2022 13:13:39 GMT -5
And, if you care about what these services pay in royalties to artists, Qobuz pays by far the highest royalty to artists:
STREAMING PLATFORM ROYALTY RATES
Amazon Music $0.00402 per stream
Apple Music $0.008 per stream
Tidal Music $0.01284 per stream
Deezer $0.0011 per stream
Pandora $0.00133 per stream
Qobuz $0.0439 per stream
YouTube Music $0.002 per stream
Spotify $0.00318 per stream
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Post by AudioHTIT on Feb 3, 2022 13:21:06 GMT -5
I had Amazon Music HD for about 9 months, did Tidal for 2 months, I've had a Spotify Family plan for years. I enjoyed the audio quality of the Amazon HD and Tidal streaming, but I found myself continuing to just listen to Spotify due to their playlist AI. The user interaction from Sportify is really hard to beat. If amazon's UI and playlist curation was better, i'd be there still. That’s a great point, and feature. I’m an album guy and most of the time find myself playing complete albums just as I did in the LP/Cassette/CD days. However, sometimes I want to listen to music, but don’t have anything particular in mind and I’ve been trying ‘My Station’ or ‘Your Station’, whatever, and have often enjoyed the playlist that was created … just for ME! I can see how the ‘intelligence’ behind this feature would also influence your platform choice. I also went back and looked at my Amazon bill, I see I was charged $79 for one year of Amazon Music Unlimited (which now includes free HD / Lossless). This means if you pay annually, Amazon Music comes out to $6.58 per month for Prime subscribers, pretty good deal. |
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Post by AudioHTIT on Feb 3, 2022 13:23:53 GMT -5
And, if you care about what these services pay in royalties to artists, Qobuz pays by far the highest royalty to artists: STREAMING PLATFORM ROYALTY RATES Amazon Music $0.00402 per stream Apple Music $0.008 per stream Tidal Music $0.01284 per stream Deezer $0.0011 per stream Pandora $0.00133 per stream Qobuz $0.0439 per stream YouTube Music $0.002 per stream Spotify $0.00318 per stream Another good point, is Qobuz also the one who pays a ‘bonus’ each month to the artist with the most streams? Edit: I found this, with the $20 Tidal subscription, 10% of your money goes directly to your highest-streamed artist that month. |
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Post by tropicallutefisk on Feb 3, 2022 13:59:30 GMT -5
I've been pretty happy with my Tidal subscription. My wife hates it though and prefers Spotify. While I like the huge library and sound quality of my Tidal subscription, those are things the wife doesn't care about. She prefers the interface of Spotify and she really likes the music suggestions it provides. I tend to find new music from friends, the Lounge and just randomly nosing through the Tidal catalog. My wife just wants to log in and get either stuff she knows or wants a suggestion from the app. Tidal is not great with this feature. It seems either their suggestions are with artists I already know or they are rap or R&B suggestions which I do not typically listen to.
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Post by Jean Genie on Feb 3, 2022 16:02:01 GMT -5
If you could, can you explain the bitperfect limitation; what it is and how to check? I use Amazon Music HD and it sounds as good as my CD collection that I play via JRMC. Thanks ‘Bitperfect’ is . . . Very helpful and informative, especially the idea of the one of each sample/bit rate playlist. Thank you very much! |
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Post by davidl81 on Feb 3, 2022 21:52:21 GMT -5
I had Amazon Music HD for about 9 months, did Tidal for 2 months, I've had a Spotify Family plan for years. I enjoyed the audio quality of the Amazon HD and Tidal streaming, but I found myself continuing to just listen to Spotify due to their playlist AI. The user interaction from Sportify is really hard to beat. If amazon's UI and playlist curation was better, i'd be there still. I have Spotify, Apple Music, and Tidal. All for various reasons. By far Spotify has the best AI for autogenerated playlist. Their “daily mixes” are usually just perfect. Also Spotify Connect is fantastic and it is used for my outdoor music. If I would only have one service it would be Spotify. Apple Muisc is used on my HomePods and on my watch when I run so I can stream music without my phone. It’s a great feature that Spotify was able to do for a while but no longer supports. Tidal is really only used for critical music and it’s biggest use for me is the intergeneration it has with some DJ software I use. |
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Post by drtrey3 on Feb 4, 2022 9:40:12 GMT -5
I run Plexamp to run and share my own server. 23,00 tunes, a couple hundred movies and cartoons, and family photos. I do NOT find a lot of new to me music on it though lol
Trey
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Post by ttocs on Mar 29, 2022 21:28:42 GMT -5
Just began using Qobuz this week for the first time. Also trying Roon. Liking this combo so far. The jump up in quality over the other streaming combos I've tried is very noticeable.
Tried Qobuz on the Mac mini via Chrome last week but I immediately stopped due to not being gapless.
I'd been hesitant to try Roon for several years because of the vagueness on Roon's web site about how things work. So finally decided to try it as an avenue for Qobuz and it works extremely well. Three days into this and it's the best streaming experience I've had.
Had whatever the top tier was for Tidal, Amazon Music, and Apple Music. I started/stopped the Amazon iterations, and each time they had changed the name and quality of their top tier, always better each time I tried it out, but always went back to Tidal and more recently Apple Music. These three services had the same fault, tiny skips when streaming via ATV4K or in the car.
Tidal kept putting hurdles in the path to what I was seeking, and, it was easy to lose my way "back" to where I wanted to get back to without affecting what was Playing Now.
Amazon just wasn't great when I had it. Its GUI was not to my liking either. But I understand the quality is much better now.
Apple Music was the easiest to use on ATV4K so I used it most of the time, and simply for the ultra convenience of it. But I grew exhausted with the lacking quality with no workaround for it.
When using Tidal, Amazon or Apple Music via ATV4K there are way too many tiny "skips" where the audio misses a beat, like the audio tape was spliced with a 1/4 second missing.
The Roon/Qobuz GUI works well for me. And with Qobuz there has not been one instance of a glitch while playing music. There have been some instances where the track doesn't play immediately upon pressing Play, and it has taken as much as about 20 seconds in the worst case to begin playing. I'm guessing there was buffering going on? dunno. I've got Roon playing music "as is" with no sample rate conversion. The Mac mini is connected to the XMC-2 via HDMI, and there are no issues of any kind. And it's nice to know Qobuz pays artists well.
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cawgijoe
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Post by cawgijoe on Mar 29, 2022 21:51:14 GMT -5
Interesting. I don’t have any skipping when playing Apple Music either at home or with my phone walking or in the car.
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Post by ttocs on Mar 29, 2022 22:07:33 GMT -5
Interesting. I don’t have any skipping when playing Apple Music either at home or with my phone walking or in the car. "Skipping", as I call it, is when the song sounds like it sped up for a brief instant. There's no gap in sound, just missing a quarter beat or even less. Let's say it happened 4 times in one song, that song would be 1 second shorter. When I've tried to point it out to people, they didn't know it happened unless I was able to point it out several times and they paid attention. |
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cawgijoe
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Post by cawgijoe on Mar 30, 2022 5:28:20 GMT -5
Interesting. I don’t have any skipping when playing Apple Music either at home or with my phone walking or in the car. "Skipping", as I call it, is when the song sounds like it sped up for a brief instant. There's no gap in sound, just missing a quarter beat or even less. Let's say it happened 4 times in one song, that song would be 1 second shorter. When I've tried to point it out to people, they didn't know it happened unless I was able to point it out several times and they paid attention. I certainly haven’t noticed that, but I will look out for it and report back. |
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