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Post by mccarty350 on Feb 5, 2022 17:59:37 GMT -5
Before I ask my question I want to discuss my intent/what I want to accomplish:
1. I have a Minidsp 4x10 that has 8 analog outputs that I use to feed amplification channels for an active Linkwitz LX521.4 speaker. I no longer desire to have to control volume at the minidsp, etc. I want it all coming into the XMC-1 via analog inputs and then to be output to 8 rca's going to my amp channels with no signal alteration.
2. I have mapped the 7.1 analog inputs to the 8 minidsp outputs hoping that I could use the subwoofer .1 input as a passthrough output.
3. I want to use the XMC-1 as the single point of volume control for everything i.e. I want the minidsp to feed it with 8 channels and then to take the 8 channels from 7.1 out and send them to 8 discrete amp channels.
Here is what I'm running into...the subwoofer .1 channel wants to do bass management or mirror left and right inputs, etc. I want to use it as just a straight up passthrough generic channel with no processing.
Is this possible?
I hope I articulated my question correctly. So far I have been unable to get the sub channel to just replicate the analog signal I have sent to it. It seems to always want to mirror left and right and output it as one based on bass management. Even if I go into the preset and set my subs to 'none' and set my mains to large it still exhibits this behavior.
Let me know if my question is unclear and if I need to restate it.
Thanks!
John
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Post by ttocs on Feb 5, 2022 18:32:14 GMT -5
Before I ask my question I want to discuss my intent/what I want to accomplish: 1. I have a Minidsp 4x10 that has 8 analog outputs that I use to feed amplification channels for an active Linkwitz LX521.4 speaker. I no longer desire to have to control volume at the minidsp, etc. I want it all coming into the XMC-1 via analog inputs and then to be output to 8 rca's going to my amp channels with no signal alteration. 2. I have mapped the 7.1 analog inputs to the 8 minidsp outputs hoping that I could use the subwoofer .1 input as a passthrough output. 3. I want to use the XMC-1 as the single point of volume control for everything i.e. I want the minidsp to feed it with 8 channels and then to take the 8 channels from 7.1 out and send them to 8 discrete amp channels. Here is what I'm running into...the subwoofer .1 channel wants to do bass management or mirror left and right inputs, etc. I want to use it as just a straight up passthrough generic channel with no processing. Is this possible? I hope I articulated my question correctly. So far I have been unable to get the sub channel to just replicate the analog signal I have sent to it. It seems to always want to mirror left and right and output it as one based on bass management. Even if I go into the preset and set my subs to 'none' and set my mains to large it still exhibits this behavior. Let me know if my question is unclear and if I need to restate it. Thanks! John This is where I get lost in where in the chain this is: Here is what I'm running into...the subwoofer .1 channel wants to do bass management or mirror left and right inputs, etc. I want to use it as just a straight up passthrough generic channel with no processing. Which device is wanting to do Bass Management? miniDSP or XMC-1? I suspect I know which, but want you to confirm please. The routing is miniDSP>>XMC-1>>Amplifiers ? If so, then you need to run the miniDSP Subwoofer Output into a "dumb" input on the XMC-1 so it does NOT engage BM. Further, this needs to be setup as Large, as you are already aware. edit: I just checked the XMC-1 manual and on page 71 it points out that the 7.1 Inputs are not managed. " 1. 7.1 Unbalanced Analog Audio Inputs (1 set)
Provides one set of unbalanced 7.1 channel surround audio inputs. The signals received at these inputs bypass all digital processing and are passed directly to the volume control and the preamp outputs. Typically, the analog surround sound outputs of an SACD player or external decoder are connected to these inputs." So something else must be happening. edit2: Some random thoughts. On page 14 of the manual: " Note: When using the Analog 7.1 Channel Inputs, the ONLY available mode is Analog Bypass, which passes the incoming analog channels directly to the output with no processing or bass management. In this mode, the LFE channel will be routed to both subs if you have two subs configured." So LFE is still being processed by the XMC-1? Not sure what this is saying, but wondering if LFE is being double processed? or if the XMC-1 is "seeing" the subwoofer output from miniDSP as LFE? I'm checking my miniDSP for some possible ideas. |
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Post by ttocs on Feb 5, 2022 19:24:56 GMT -5
I get it now. It wasn't clear to me that your speakers are 4-way and you need all eight channels to feed them. I can only assume now that there is LFE content in the audio and this is messing things up. The XMC-1 should not be adding any BM, but apparently is still handling LFE if it's in the signal. The miniDSP 10x10HD allows LFE to be stripped away in one of the routing matrixes, but I can't find any info as to whether the 4x10HD will do the same. Look about 3/4 of the way down this page: www.minidsp.com/applications/home-theater-tuning/surround-equalization-with-10x10hd |
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Post by mccarty350 on Feb 5, 2022 21:23:46 GMT -5
Thank you so much for the rapid reply. Let me read and digest this overnight and then I'll respond line by line. I've been troubleshooting and re-cabling my system to assimilate the XMC-1 and I have gone so much down the rabbit hole that I am no longer capable of critical thinking - you've probably been there before.
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Post by mccarty350 on Feb 6, 2022 16:06:03 GMT -5
Before I ask my question I want to discuss my intent/what I want to accomplish: 1. I have a Minidsp 4x10 that has 8 analog outputs that I use to feed amplification channels for an active Linkwitz LX521.4 speaker. I no longer desire to have to control volume at the minidsp, etc. I want it all coming into the XMC-1 via analog inputs and then to be output to 8 rca's going to my amp channels with no signal alteration. 2. I have mapped the 7.1 analog inputs to the 8 minidsp outputs hoping that I could use the subwoofer .1 input as a passthrough output. 3. I want to use the XMC-1 as the single point of volume control for everything i.e. I want the minidsp to feed it with 8 channels and then to take the 8 channels from 7.1 out and send them to 8 discrete amp channels. Here is what I'm running into...the subwoofer .1 channel wants to do bass management or mirror left and right inputs, etc. I want to use it as just a straight up passthrough generic channel with no processing. Is this possible? I hope I articulated my question correctly. So far I have been unable to get the sub channel to just replicate the analog signal I have sent to it. It seems to always want to mirror left and right and output it as one based on bass management. Even if I go into the preset and set my subs to 'none' and set my mains to large it still exhibits this behavior. Let me know if my question is unclear and if I need to restate it. Thanks! John This is where I get lost in where in the chain this is: Here is what I'm running into...the subwoofer .1 channel wants to do bass management or mirror left and right inputs, etc. I want to use it as just a straight up passthrough generic channel with no processing. Which device is wanting to do Bass Management? miniDSP or XMC-1? I suspect I know which, but want you to confirm please. The routing is miniDSP>>XMC-1>>Amplifiers ? If so, then you need to run the miniDSP Subwoofer Output into a "dumb" input on the XMC-1 so it does NOT engage BM. Further, this needs to be setup as Large, as you are already aware. edit: I just checked the XMC-1 manual and on page 71 it points out that the 7.1 Inputs are not managed. " 1. 7.1 Unbalanced Analog Audio Inputs (1 set)
Provides one set of unbalanced 7.1 channel surround audio inputs. The signals received at these inputs bypass all digital processing and are passed directly to the volume control and the preamp outputs. Typically, the analog surround sound outputs of an SACD player or external decoder are connected to these inputs." So something else must be happening. edit2: Some random thoughts. On page 14 of the manual: " Note: When using the Analog 7.1 Channel Inputs, the ONLY available mode is Analog Bypass, which passes the incoming analog channels directly to the output with no processing or bass management. In this mode, the LFE channel will be routed to both subs if you have two subs configured." So LFE is still being processed by the XMC-1? Not sure what this is saying, but wondering if LFE is being double processed? or if the XMC-1 is "seeing" the subwoofer output from miniDSP as LFE? I'm checking my miniDSP for some possible ideas. Okay, so in this case the LInkwitz LX521.4 is a fully turnkey system, I don't want to do any bass management anywhere. I just want to use the 8 inputs as passthroughs to the 8 outputs and send them out to my amp channels. Signal Path: PC -> toslink -> Minidsp 4x10HD -> 8 RCA outputs with individual xovers on each channel -> 7.1 analog input on Emotiva XMC-1 ->7.1 analog output on Emotiva XMC-1 -> 2 x Outlaw 5k's, one for each side/speaker. Unfortunately I have 8 channels out output required and the XMC-1 doesn't have any 7.1 in's/out's so that I can avoid leveraging the subwoofer input. Mappings for RCA's from Minidsp: Left: 1 -> Tweeters 2-> Upper Midrange 3-> Lower Midrange 4->Woofers Right: 5->Tweeters 6->Upper Midrange 7->Lower Midrange 8->Woofers I read the same about the 7.1 analog inputs being passthrough yet I did the following test: Went into my tweeters output 1 on the Minidsp and cleared the crossover settings and peq's so that it had flat output. Fed the output straight into input 1 on the 7.1. Went into my woofer output 8 on the Minidsp and cleared the crossover settings and peq's so that it had flat output. Fed the output straight into the .1 sub input on the 7.1. Took 7.1 analog output 1 and fed it straight to my left channel on my power amp. Took 7.1 analog output sub and fed it straight to the right channel on my power amp.] Set speakers to large to in theory disengage bass management although if these were passthrough this should have had no effect. Applied preset one for 7.1 and set subwoofer to 'none'. Now...in theory both of these should behave exactly the same if there was no processing involved. Here's what I found: 1. When you set the sub to mono - even though one doesn't exist - I get audio out of both channels when I mute the tweeter output from the minidsp. This tells me that the XMC is duplicating bass out of both outputs even though it's only receiving an input from the .1 sub channel. 2. When I set it to stereo subs this goes away and only comes out of one channel. But still shows bass management is engaged. 3. When I set it to stereo and then unmute the tweeter output I am getting discrete left and right outputs that are full range or so it seems however - 4. Volume levels are different out of left and right channels. When I go into bass management and set the sub level it does change the volume on the channel that comes from the .1 again supporting that despite what the manual says that bass management is enaged. Sorry I went dark yesterday...my frustration level had hit 'brain shutdown mode'. Now, I have some work arounds i.e. I can do this: PC HDMI -> XMC-1 -> Optical output -> Minidsp 4x10HD with volume control disabled -> RCA outputs to amps. However here is why I still want to pursue this: 1. I have an 'experiment' that I want to pursue where I eliminate all external DSP's. How? 2. Buy multichannel dac or audio interface fed by USB to PC. 3. Use audiolense or jriver convolver (lots of ways to skin this cat) to do all crossovers and peq's. Instead of being limited to 5 peq's per channel and input/output peq's on minidsp I can use a PC to do pretty much as many peq's as I want in software and eliminate all external hardware/devices. 4. Ideally I'd feed the multichannel dac to the 7.1 on the XMC-1 and then feed my amps directly from it as I'm trying to do with the minidsp. 5. This is why I'm doing this 'feasibility study'...I'd love to simplify my system and reduce the amount of devices involved. Does this give context that is more clear? Thanks! John |
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Post by mccarty350 on Feb 6, 2022 16:10:53 GMT -5
I get it now. It wasn't clear to me that your speakers are 4-way and you need all eight channels to feed them. I can only assume now that there is LFE content in the audio and this is messing things up. The XMC-1 should not be adding any BM, but apparently is still handling LFE if it's in the signal. The miniDSP 10x10HD allows LFE to be stripped away in one of the routing matrixes, but I can't find any info as to whether the 4x10HD will do the same. Look about 3/4 of the way down this page: www.minidsp.com/applications/home-theater-tuning/surround-equalization-with-10x10hdYes sir, the speakers are a bizarre 4 way design and I need all 8 channels. You got it. No LFE content being sent via the analog inputs, just 1 to 1 mappings to minidsp outputs. Indeed, the XMC-1 shouldn't be adding bass management but given what I saw above it seems to be. I am new to posting in this forum I tried to do some searches for other threads but the search function seems to not work very well or I'm doing it wrong, either way is possible. The MiniDSP 4x10 I don't think has that capability. The 4x10 allows: Inputs: Two channel analog inputs Coax/Toslink/AES-EBU digital inputs Outputs: 8 x unbalanced RCA 8 x balanced via phoenix connector 1 x digital coax/toslink It has no cognizance of multichannel audio, it takes in two channel and outputs analog across a maximum of 8 outputs or you can take the digital in two channel and output it digital out two channel. So the issues are all within the XMC-1 as far as I can tell and it's lack of desire to 'back off' on bass management  Thanks, John |
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Post by ttocs on Feb 6, 2022 16:30:41 GMT -5
I get it now. It wasn't clear to me that your speakers are 4-way and you need all eight channels to feed them. I can only assume now that there is LFE content in the audio and this is messing things up. The XMC-1 should not be adding any BM, but apparently is still handling LFE if it's in the signal. The miniDSP 10x10HD allows LFE to be stripped away in one of the routing matrixes, but I can't find any info as to whether the 4x10HD will do the same. Look about 3/4 of the way down this page: www.minidsp.com/applications/home-theater-tuning/surround-equalization-with-10x10hdYes sir, the speakers are a bizarre 4 way design and I need all 8 channels. You got it. No LFE content being sent via the analog inputs, just 1 to 1 mappings to minidsp outputs. Indeed, the XMC-1 shouldn't be adding bass management but given what I saw above it seems to be. I am new to posting in this forum I tried to do some searches for other threads but the search function seems to not work very well or I'm doing it wrong, either way is possible. The MiniDSP 4x10 I don't think has that capability. The 4x10 allows: Inputs: Two channel analog inputs Coax/Toslink/AES-EBU digital inputs Outputs: 8 x unbalanced RCA 8 x balanced via phoenix connector 1 x digital coax/toslink It has no cognizance of multichannel audio, it takes in two channel and outputs analog across a maximum of 8 outputs or you can take the digital in two channel and output it digital out two channel. So the issues are all within the XMC-1 as far as I can tell and it's lack of desire to 'back off' on bass management  Thanks, John It seems that it would be nice to hack into being able to use the Record Inputs or the stand-alone Analog Inputs and combine those with 6 of the 7.1 Inputs. It's not like the old days when this kinda stuff might've been possible. I'm at a loss for the moment. If only that .1 Input could be used just like the other 7 channels. Timing might be an issue, but, Can the Analog Inputs be used and sent to Zone 2? Then, Zone 2 Follows Zone 1 and I think the volume is the same. edit: nope. the volume is different. |
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Post by mccarty350 on Feb 6, 2022 16:41:57 GMT -5
That was a great idea though. Crap. Are there any emotiva staff members that hit this forum that we could pose this to? I'm so unfamiliar with the forum.
Agreed, it would be great to be able to aggregate inputs. I wish. My goal is lofty however, the multichannel dac solution would be amazing.
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Post by mccarty350 on Feb 6, 2022 20:15:28 GMT -5
Just ran into another stumbling block trying to route audio from optical out from the XMC-1 to the minidsp optical in. The XMC-1 doesn't seem to apply volume control to the optical out. There goes another scenario up in smoke.
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Post by ttocs on Feb 6, 2022 20:30:45 GMT -5
oops. sorry.
Well, it's nice to meet another Earthling who is able to find the breaking point of electro/mechanical devices.
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Post by mccarty350 on Feb 6, 2022 20:53:52 GMT -5
HAhahaha they are things that you'd think would be possible with a beast of this magnitude. So either the single optical out won't apply digital volume control or the minidsp that's taking it in isn't respecting it.
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grbh
Minor Hero
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Post by grbh on Feb 6, 2022 21:58:46 GMT -5
Before I ask my question I want to discuss my intent/what I want to accomplish: 1. I have a Minidsp 4x10 that has 8 analog outputs that I use to feed amplification channels for an active Linkwitz LX521.4 speaker. I no longer desire to have to control volume at the minidsp, etc. I want it all coming into the XMC-1 via analog inputs and then to be output to 8 rca's going to my amp channels with no signal alteration. 2. I have mapped the 7.1 analog inputs to the 8 minidsp outputs hoping that I could use the subwoofer .1 input as a passthrough output. 3. I want to use the XMC-1 as the single point of volume control for everything i.e. I want the minidsp to feed it with 8 channels and then to take the 8 channels from 7.1 out and send them to 8 discrete amp channels. Here is what I'm running into...the subwoofer .1 channel wants to do bass management or mirror left and right inputs, etc. I want to use it as just a straight up passthrough generic channel with no processing. Is this possible? I hope I articulated my question correctly. So far I have been unable to get the sub channel to just replicate the analog signal I have sent to it. It seems to always want to mirror left and right and output it as one based on bass management. Even if I go into the preset and set my subs to 'none' and set my mains to large it still exhibits this behavior. Let me know if my question is unclear and if I need to restate it. Thanks! John This is where I get lost in where in the chain this is: Here is what I'm running into...the subwoofer .1 channel wants to do bass management or mirror left and right inputs, etc. I want to use it as just a straight up passthrough generic channel with no processing. Which device is wanting to do Bass Management? miniDSP or XMC-1? I suspect I know which, but want you to confirm please. The routing is miniDSP>>XMC-1>>Amplifiers ? If so, then you need to run the miniDSP Subwoofer Output into a "dumb" input on the XMC-1 so it does NOT engage BM. Further, this needs to be setup as Large, as you are already aware. edit: I just checked the XMC-1 manual and on page 71 it points out that the 7.1 Inputs are not managed. " 1. 7.1 Unbalanced Analog Audio Inputs (1 set)
Provides one set of unbalanced 7.1 channel surround audio inputs. The signals received at these inputs bypass all digital processing and are passed directly to the volume control and the preamp outputs. Typically, the analog surround sound outputs of an SACD player or external decoder are connected to these inputs." So something else must be happening. edit2: Some random thoughts. On page 14 of the manual: " Note: When using the Analog 7.1 Channel Inputs, the ONLY available mode is Analog Bypass, which passes the incoming analog channels directly to the output with no processing or bass management. In this mode, the LFE channel will be routed to both subs if you have two subs configured." So LFE is still being processed by the XMC-1? Not sure what this is saying, but wondering if LFE is being double processed? or if the XMC-1 is "seeing" the subwoofer output from miniDSP as LFE? I'm checking my miniDSP for some possible ideas. |
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grbh
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Post by grbh on Feb 6, 2022 22:14:11 GMT -5
This to me seems fairly straight forward if I understand your question. (I have a XMC-1 by the way)
From the XMC-1 manual:
7.1 Unbalanced Analog Audio Inputs (1 set)
Provides one set of unbalanced 7.1 channel surround audio inputs. The signals received at these
inputs bypass all digital processing and are passed directly to the volume control and the preamp
outputs. Typically, the analog surround sound outputs of an SACD player or external decoder are
connected to these inputs.
*************************************************************************************************************************************************
Processing of any type is in the digital domain. The 7.1 analog inputs pass through a pure "unprocessed" analog signal though the volume control and then to the 7.1 analog outputs.
Absolutely no processing at all, including any bass management is done to the 7.1 analog inputs. It is strictly analog pass through
I hope I was able to answer your question based on my interpretation.
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grbh
Minor Hero
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Post by grbh on Feb 6, 2022 22:50:29 GMT -5
On another point that was raised:
The XMC-1 volume control is done purely in the analog domain (or in the analog path if you will), but is digitally controlled. That is apparently why you are unable to control the volume on the digital inputs, as the volume control can't alter the level of a digital signal.
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Post by mccarty350 on Feb 6, 2022 23:04:08 GMT -5
This to me seems fairly straight forward if I understand your question. (I have a XMC-1 by the way) From the XMC-1 manual: 7.1 Unbalanced Analog Audio Inputs (1 set) Provides one set of unbalanced 7.1 channel surround audio inputs. The signals received at these inputs bypass all digital processing and are passed directly to the volume control and the preamp outputs. Typically, the analog surround sound outputs of an SACD player or external decoder are connected to these inputs. ************************************************************************************************************************************************* Processing of any type is in the digital domain. The 7.1 analog inputs pass through a pure "unprocessed" analog signal though the volume control and then to the 7.1 analog outputs. Absolutely no processing at all, including any bass management is done to the 7.1 analog inputs. It is strictly analog pass through I hope I was able to answer your question based on my interpretation. Yes, that was both of our suppositions from the above (really lengthy) set of replies but this is what occurred when I tried to leverage that .1 input/output: Here's what I found: 1. When you set the sub to mono - even though one doesn't exist - I get audio out of both channels when I mute the tweeter output from the minidsp. This tells me that the XMC is duplicating bass out of both outputs even though it's only receiving an input from the .1 sub channel. 2. When I set it to stereo subs this goes away and only comes out of one channel. But still shows bass management is engaged. 3. When I set it to stereo and then unmute the tweeter output I am getting discrete left and right outputs that are full range or so it seems however - 4. Volume levels are different out of left and right channels. When I go into bass management and set the sub level it does change the volume on the channel that comes from the .1 again supporting that despite what the manual says that bass management is enaged. It certainly seemed to be imposing bass management based on that. |
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Post by mccarty350 on Feb 6, 2022 23:07:15 GMT -5
On another point that was raised: The XMC-1 volume control is done purely in the analog domain (or in the analog path if you will), but is digitally controlled. That is apparently why you are unable to control the volume on the digital inputs, as the volume control can't alter the level of a digital signal. That's what I feared, that the resistor step ladder was the only means of volume control meaning I'd have to convert everything that went to another device out of the digital domain. I hate the idea of converting my music to analog coming out of the XMC and then back into digital again at the MiniDSP. Oh well. Lots of devices can control volume digitally you wouldn't think it would be hard since everything gets processed (can have gain altered by filters no less!) digitally and given that this thing has a veritable swiss army knife of features. |
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grbh
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Post by grbh on Feb 6, 2022 23:13:52 GMT -5
This to me seems fairly straight forward if I understand your question. (I have a XMC-1 by the way) From the XMC-1 manual: 7.1 Unbalanced Analog Audio Inputs (1 set) Provides one set of unbalanced 7.1 channel surround audio inputs. The signals received at these inputs bypass all digital processing and are passed directly to the volume control and the preamp outputs. Typically, the analog surround sound outputs of an SACD player or external decoder are connected to these inputs. ************************************************************************************************************************************************* Processing of any type is in the digital domain. The 7.1 analog inputs pass through a pure "unprocessed" analog signal though the volume control and then to the 7.1 analog outputs. Absolutely no processing at all, including any bass management is done to the 7.1 analog inputs. It is strictly analog pass through I hope I was able to answer your question based on my interpretation. Yes, that was both of our suppositions from the above (really lengthy) set of replies but this is what occurred when I tried to leverage that .1 input/output: Here's what I found: 1. When you set the sub to mono - even though one doesn't exist - I get audio out of both channels when I mute the tweeter output from the minidsp. This tells me that the XMC is duplicating bass out of both outputs even though it's only receiving an input from the .1 sub channel. 2. When I set it to stereo subs this goes away and only comes out of one channel. But still shows bass management is engaged. 3. When I set it to stereo and then unmute the tweeter output I am getting discrete left and right outputs that are full range or so it seems however - 4. Volume levels are different out of left and right channels. When I go into bass management and set the sub level it does change the volume on the channel that comes from the .1 again supporting that despite what the manual says that bass management is enaged. It certainly seemed to be imposing bass management based on that. |
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grbh
Minor Hero
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Post by grbh on Feb 6, 2022 23:40:37 GMT -5
I did quickly scan over the posts but as you say they were quite lengthy. Appreciate you following up my reply with your findings in point form.
Am looking forward to hearing from Emotiva as to how a 7.1 analog output has been modified on a supposed pure analog pass through.
At first glance, this does not seem to make any sense based on the description of the 7.1 analog inputs, and the supposed lack of any type of processing/channel management.
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KeithL
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Post by KeithL on Feb 7, 2022 10:30:22 GMT -5
OK.....
7.1 channel analog inputs on the XMC-1...
The 7.1 channel analog inputs on the XMC-1 are passed through to the outputs as analog signals - without any digital processing (there is no 8 channel ADC). And, yes, that means that the ".1" channel is full range in that mode.
If you have two subs configured than the input from the ".1" channel will be "fanned out" (copied) to both. The LEVEL controls, including Volume and Trims, ARE applied (level control in the XMC-1 is analog).
This is where I get lost in where in the chain this is: Which device is wanting to do Bass Management? miniDSP or XMC-1? I suspect I know which, but want you to confirm please. The routing is miniDSP>>XMC-1>>Amplifiers ? If so, then you need to run the miniDSP Subwoofer Output into a "dumb" input on the XMC-1 so it does NOT engage BM. Further, this needs to be setup as Large, as you are already aware. edit: I just checked the XMC-1 manual and on page 71 it points out that the 7.1 Inputs are not managed. " 1. 7.1 Unbalanced Analog Audio Inputs (1 set)
Provides one set of unbalanced 7.1 channel surround audio inputs. The signals received at these inputs bypass all digital processing and are passed directly to the volume control and the preamp outputs. Typically, the analog surround sound outputs of an SACD player or external decoder are connected to these inputs." So something else must be happening. edit2: Some random thoughts. On page 14 of the manual: " Note: When using the Analog 7.1 Channel Inputs, the ONLY available mode is Analog Bypass, which passes the incoming analog channels directly to the output with no processing or bass management. In this mode, the LFE channel will be routed to both subs if you have two subs configured." So LFE is still being processed by the XMC-1? Not sure what this is saying, but wondering if LFE is being double processed? or if the XMC-1 is "seeing" the subwoofer output from miniDSP as LFE? I'm checking my miniDSP for some possible ideas. Okay, so in this case the LInkwitz LX521.4 is a fully turnkey system, I don't want to do any bass management anywhere. I just want to use the 8 inputs as passthroughs to the 8 outputs and send them out to my amp channels. Signal Path: PC -> toslink -> Minidsp 4x10HD -> 8 RCA outputs with individual xovers on each channel -> 7.1 analog input on Emotiva XMC-1 ->7.1 analog output on Emotiva XMC-1 -> 2 x Outlaw 5k's, one for each side/speaker. Unfortunately I have 8 channels out output required and the XMC-1 doesn't have any 7.1 in's/out's so that I can avoid leveraging the subwoofer input. Mappings for RCA's from Minidsp: Left: 1 -> Tweeters 2-> Upper Midrange 3-> Lower Midrange 4->Woofers Right: 5->Tweeters 6->Upper Midrange 7->Lower Midrange 8->Woofers I read the same about the 7.1 analog inputs being passthrough yet I did the following test: Went into my tweeters output 1 on the Minidsp and cleared the crossover settings and peq's so that it had flat output. Fed the output straight into input 1 on the 7.1. Went into my woofer output 8 on the Minidsp and cleared the crossover settings and peq's so that it had flat output. Fed the output straight into the .1 sub input on the 7.1. Took 7.1 analog output 1 and fed it straight to my left channel on my power amp. Took 7.1 analog output sub and fed it straight to the right channel on my power amp.] Set speakers to large to in theory disengage bass management although if these were passthrough this should have had no effect. Applied preset one for 7.1 and set subwoofer to 'none'. Now...in theory both of these should behave exactly the same if there was no processing involved. Here's what I found: 1. When you set the sub to mono - even though one doesn't exist - I get audio out of both channels when I mute the tweeter output from the minidsp. This tells me that the XMC is duplicating bass out of both outputs even though it's only receiving an input from the .1 sub channel. 2. When I set it to stereo subs this goes away and only comes out of one channel. But still shows bass management is engaged. 3. When I set it to stereo and then unmute the tweeter output I am getting discrete left and right outputs that are full range or so it seems however - 4. Volume levels are different out of left and right channels. When I go into bass management and set the sub level it does change the volume on the channel that comes from the .1 again supporting that despite what the manual says that bass management is enaged. Sorry I went dark yesterday...my frustration level had hit 'brain shutdown mode'. Now, I have some work arounds i.e. I can do this: PC HDMI -> XMC-1 -> Optical output -> Minidsp 4x10HD with volume control disabled -> RCA outputs to amps. However here is why I still want to pursue this: 1. I have an 'experiment' that I want to pursue where I eliminate all external DSP's. How? 2. Buy multichannel dac or audio interface fed by USB to PC. 3. Use audiolense or jriver convolver (lots of ways to skin this cat) to do all crossovers and peq's. Instead of being limited to 5 peq's per channel and input/output peq's on minidsp I can use a PC to do pretty much as many peq's as I want in software and eliminate all external hardware/devices. 4. Ideally I'd feed the multichannel dac to the 7.1 on the XMC-1 and then feed my amps directly from it as I'm trying to do with the minidsp. 5. This is why I'm doing this 'feasibility study'...I'd love to simplify my system and reduce the amount of devices involved. Does this give context that is more clear? Thanks! John |
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Post by mccarty350 on Feb 7, 2022 11:30:32 GMT -5
Thank you so much Keith. So basically to summarize it as I understand it the 7.1's are passed through full range frequency response but anything that comes through the .1 is going to be impacted by the subwoofer level control so there will be a level matching challenge potentially is that accurate? In my use case I should select 'stereo subs' so that I'm not duplicating the mono across both channels and I would have to find some way to adjust the level of the .1 channel to that of the main overall volume - any tips on how to do that?
Second question while you are here. I noticed that volume control on the XMC-1 overall doesn't translate to digital volume control on the optical output i.e. if I try to have a minidsp downstream from the XMC-1 fed by it's optical out the master volume set at the XMC-1 doesn't adjust the signal sent to the Minidsp meaning - from what I can tell - that instead of keeping it all in the digital domain I have to have the XMC-1 dump it to analog out of main zone 1/2 out (or another volume control out that is analog) and have it get re-digitized at the minidsp because the only volume control in the XMC is only implemented at the resistive ladder in analog is that an accurate statement? Likely no work around to having the XMC being the single source of volume control there?
Please don't let my questions make you think I dislike emotiva - the fact that I'm in this forum and getting such great support from others and that a hands on emotiva engineer is fielding my question speaks to the fact that I did make the right decision here. I am pretty confident that any product of this complexity and this class is going to have it's foibles and tradoffs, it just comes with the territory of having a swiss army knife of a product.
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