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Post by Boomzilla on Feb 19, 2022 6:17:03 GMT -5
It (speaker internal wire size) has to do with resistance. Too big is as bad or worse than too small. OK, but one might argue that the original speaker designer took into account the resistance of the internal wire in the original crossover calculations. On sub-$2K speakers, probably not, but certainly on any more expensive speaker, the speaker designer had the budget and tools to tweak the crossover for the desired sound. In GR Research kits, one typically throws away the original crossover anyway, and the wire included in the kit is suitable for the crossover being supplied. You pays your money, you takes your choice. |
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Post by fbczar on Feb 19, 2022 9:43:30 GMT -5
If you have a physics or electrical engineering background, you can see for yourself. I have not the time to teach college courses online, or review old material already shown to be erroneous. It is simply not worth it to me to go back and dredge up old videos and nitpick them to satisfy your distrust. I don't know if you have extensive technical background and feel Danny is correct in all his previous videos, or simply feel he is more credible than I based on what you believe. If the former, then we can debate the technical details, but again I am not willing to spend my time dredging up old videos and wading through them. It has been done by many people on other fora in the past. Currently you could check out ASR (https://www.audiosciencereview.com/forum/index.php), as I think there are a few threads there, and I contribute on ASR now and then. If the latter, then there is really no point in arguing, as you will believe whom you choose, purely a personal choice. In the interest of maybe having some resolution here, would you mind posting an example of Danny's credibility or lack thereof? I understand you don't have the time or inclination to go back and review everything, but one example that has specifics as to why his claim(s) are erroneous would be helpful. What I think is if you have something specific to address and call Danny out on it is fine. What is not fine is what you have done. You have plenty of time to assassinate Danny’s reputation, but you have no time make a point in any credible way that can be debated. “Belief” has nothing to do with it. |
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Post by fbczar on Feb 19, 2022 9:47:05 GMT -5
Still, not one specific. Nothing. Just a general condemnation that means nothing since it cannot be addressed. Convenient. Probably Danny's RF claims are the suspect ones. Don is a technical expert AFAIK. Technical expert or not, there is an ethical and unethical way to conduct yourself. Don makes no mention of anything he disagrees with Danny about. He just assassinated Danny’s reputation blithely and moved on. |
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Post by DavidR on Feb 19, 2022 10:24:48 GMT -5
According to Danny's Linked-In profile, which for some reason won't post, he did one year at a liberal arts college.
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Post by brutiarti on Feb 19, 2022 13:34:49 GMT -5
What reputation??
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Post by fbczar on Feb 19, 2022 17:38:37 GMT -5
It (speaker internal wire size) has to do with resistance. Too big is as bad or worse than too small. OK, but one might argue that the original speaker designer took into account the resistance of the internal wire in the original crossover calculations. On sub-$2K speakers, probably not, but certainly on any more expensive speaker, the speaker designer had the budget and tools to tweak the crossover for the desired sound. In GR Research kits, one typically throws away the original crossover anyway, and the wire included in the kit is suitable for the crossover being supplied. You pays your money, you takes your choice. It is interesting that Magnepan recommends 10 gauge speaker wire and, as you might guess, outfits their speakers with connectors that can handle up to 10 gauge wire. Yet they certainly do not use 10 gauge wire inside their speakers. GR-Research recommends braided, pure copper wire because they say braided wire acts as a noise filter. You always hear the , “What about the wire in the speaker argument”, but I do not think I have seen a paper arguing whether or not exotic wire configurations can act as a filter. EMI and RFI elimination are hot topics in audio in general, especially noise related to Ethernet and electrical line noise. Unfortunately, it seems you have only two sides to these arguments: People who listen and people who cite what they know about engineering and never listen. No doubt, these arguments will continue unabated since neither side seems willing to budge. And the variables involved from system to system are vast. However, you would think jitter would have been enough to convince some that not everything is known or measurable. |
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Post by DavidR on Feb 19, 2022 18:15:23 GMT -5
It is interesting that Magnepan recommends 10 gauge speaker wire and, as you might guess, outfits their speakers with connectors that can handle up to 10 gauge wire. Yet they certainly do not use 10 gauge wire inside their speakers. GR-Research recommends braided, pure copper wire because they say braided wire acts as a noise filter. You always hear the , “What about the wire in the speaker argument”, but I do not think I have seen a paper arguing whether or not exotic wire configurations can act as a filter. EMI and RFI elimination are hot topics in audio in general, especially noise related to either net and electrical line noise. Unfortunately, it seems you have only two sides to these arguments: People who listen and people who cite what they know about engineering and never listen. No doubt, these arguments will continue unabated since neither side seems willing to budge. And the variables involved from system to system are vast. However, you would think jitter would have been enough to convince some that not everything is known or measurable. Back in 1968 Bose had speaker wire recommendations for the 901. Gauge was dependent upon wire length/run.
I've never experienced EMI/RFI in my music nor do I wave my speaker wire around like Danny does in his video. I listen to my music. I run Emotiva CMX2 and CMX6 on each system for power supply - its clean.
There are many different wire wrap configurations. I fail to see how copper wire in a specific braid would/could act as a filter. Wire coverings with a shield is a different story.
Danny did turn me on to Miflex copper capacitors and used some in a cascade configuration with the restoration of my MicroAcoustic FRM-1A speakers. They really dig into the music. Many of his claims are considered __________ by other speaker designers. Just because he says "Oh, boy" and turns his head doesn't sell me on some of his voodoo. I think he pushes Sonicap as his former partner makes and sells them. I find they don't have a lot of detail. Another cheap cap he likes is ERSE. They are inexpensive for a reason - materials, materials, materials and assembly.
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Post by fbczar on Feb 19, 2022 18:28:24 GMT -5
It is interesting that Magnepan recommends 10 gauge speaker wire and, as you might guess, outfits their speakers with connectors that can handle up to 10 gauge wire. Yet they certainly do not use 10 gauge wire inside their speakers. GR-Research recommends braided, pure copper wire because they say braided wire acts as a noise filter. You always hear the , “What about the wire in the speaker argument”, but I do not think I have seen a paper arguing whether or not exotic wire configurations can act as a filter. EMI and RFI elimination are hot topics in audio in general, especially noise related to either net and electrical line noise. Unfortunately, it seems you have only two sides to these arguments: People who listen and people who cite what they know about engineering and never listen. No doubt, these arguments will continue unabated since neither side seems willing to budge. And the variables involved from system to system are vast. However, you would think jitter would have been enough to convince some that not everything is known or measurable. Back in 1968 Bose had speaker wire recommendations for the 901. Gauge was dependent upon wire length/run.
I've never experienced EMI/RFI in my music nor do I wave my speaker wire around like Danny does in his video. I listen to my music. I run Emotiva CMX2 and CMX6 on each system for power supply - its clean.
There are many different wire wrap configurations. I fail to see how copper wire in a specific braid would/could act as a filter. Wire coverings with a shield is a different story.
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Danny did turn me on to Miflex copper capacitors and used some in a cascade configuration with the restoration of my MicroAcoustic FRM-1A speakers. They really dig into the music. Many of his claims are considered __________ by other speaker designers. Just because he says "Oh, boy" and turns his head doesn't sell me on some of his voodoo. I think he pushes Sonicap as his former partner makes and sells them. I find they don't have a lot of detail. Another cheap cap he likes is ERSE. They are inexpensive for a reason - materials, materials, materials and assembly.
When I a added a MicroRendu to my system I learned you do not necessarily experience noise in the sense we most often describe it. That is like hiss or hum. Rather, I think it is more accurately described as experiencing less noise or an absence of noise. The result can be eye opening. |
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Post by donh50 on Feb 19, 2022 18:34:15 GMT -5
Speaker wires are an interesting subject. I have owned Maggies since 1979 though mine are in storage now. They are almost purely resistive so, albeit low impedance and very insensitive so need some power, are a fairly easy load. Typical speakers have impedance curves that vary widely (perhaps "wildly" is more appropriate) over the audio band, making them more sensitive to the driving impedance (amplifier plus speaker wires). Braided cable, or true Litz cable, has higher capacitance than standard "zip" cord and the wrap/weave can improve common-mode noise rejection. That is rarely an issue for amplifiers and speakers, given the high voltage levels and very low impedances, but can help in some situations. It can also hurt; I was at CES in the early 1980's when the "Cobra Cable" guy hooked them (woven cables) to an early wideband amplifier and the capacitance killed the amp (it oscillated; heard a "chirp" and it was dead). Most amps should handle them just fine, however. Years ago I used large coax (RG-8) for a long speaker run at friend's house. He lived near a radio tower and was getting noise coupled into his system via the speaker cables and into the feedback circuit of the amplifier. Normally, I would add a noise filter on the amp's output, but the cables did the trick without having to mess with the amp. Crossovers are routinely designed to be driven by a near ideal voltage source since that is what the outputs of most (SS) amplifiers look like. If you use small wire and/or long cables such that their impedance gets too large for the crossover, and the impedance varies over frequency (like most speakers), then the frequency response that you hear will vary. The sound will also be attenuated since some energy is lost in the wire, but that is usually a non-issue in a home installation. Tube amplifiers have very high output impedance (often several ohms) so are more sensitive to the speaker, but since their output impedance is already so high, they are typically less sensitive to the speaker cables. Some manufacturers specify a maximum impedance and/or minimum wire gauge (that depends on length) to minimize this issue. Low impedance drive (cables plus amps) also helps with back-EMF, the reverse current generated when a speaker driver moves and then is pushed back by the air force, and also when the driver "overshoots" the stopping point and returns to the starting point (kicking back some charge in the process). How much of that actually gets out the speakers terminals and back to the amp depends upon the design and power level; it is usually only woofers. Both those issues, terminating the input of the crossover and letting the amplifier control back-EMF, require an amplifier with low output impedance and heavy (thick, low enough in resistance) cables to keep the impedance low all the way to the speaker terminals. Using thicker cables (lower numerical AWG) provides lower resistance. Roger Russell and others have tables for that, though tend to emphasis pure loss (attenuation) and less so the impact the crossover might have. What the speaker sees as a driving impedance is the amp plus the speaker cable. After the crossover, inside the speaker, the connecting wires to a conventional driver are going to a big (long) coil of very thin wire (the voice coil), so the argument can be made that wire inside the speaker after the crossover does not matter (much). It needs to handle the current, and low voltage drop is desirable, but the distance is very short so most loudspeakers I have seen do not have real heavy wiring inside the box from crossover to drivers. It is something speaker designers have to manage, natch, especially with varying driver sensitivity and impedances. The crossover does a lot more than just split the frequencies for each driver; it must also match sensitivity and align phase to provide flat output over frequency. I am not a speaker designer, though have done a few, and it is a complex subject. I took a couple of grad courses in acoustics thinking it would be fun; they were educational, but not as "fun" as I had hoped! The math gets deep... Planar dynamics like Magnepan essentially go to wires or foil traces mounted on a thin diaphragm after the crossover. The wires are separated, kind of like unrolling a voice coil and spreading it over a large area with the central magnet replaced by many strips of smaller magnets behind the panel (up to the 20/30 series, which have magnets on both sides). True ribbons are similar though their construction is quite different. The result is a dipole that produces a "wall of sound" in front and in back, with dispersion to sides and top/bottom limited above the frequency determined by the dimensions of the panel. Less energy to the sides means more energy toward the user so they tend to lose less energy (sound) with distance, helping offset their low sensitivity, at least a little. ESLs also use a thin diaphragm, but in a voltage field, and the panel itself basically forms a giant capacitor. They need very high voltage so a transformer is used between amp and speaker, thus the load may not look purely capacitive, but gets very low at high frequencies (often well under 1 ohm) so need heavy wiring and amps stable into very low-impedance loads. (Some ribbon speakers, notably the big Apogee models, also had very low impedance, but they were closer to Maggies in being almost purely resistive, albeit at around 1 ohm!) Some speaker cables (MIT comes to mind) have Zobel networks to help match impedance; I have never been a fan as speaker impedances vary so much, and most are designed to be driven by a low-impedance source anyway, so the network simply modifies the frequency response the designer intended. As for me, I tend to choose as heavy wire as I can afford and am willing to deal with, typically stranded 14 or 12 AWG cables though I have a few larger ones around. At audio frequencies, things like skin effect and complex impedance rarely matter (but are a big part of marketing some esoteric cables -- Monster Cable got slapped down in the 80's or 90's for showing bandwidth plots that were fractions of a dB out to MHz, basically blowing up the curves to show a huge difference that was totally inaudible). Additional shielding I have only needed in pro setups, e.g. when speaker and power cables where together in a channel or trench of 100' or more, and in a few cases where RFI was very ( very) high or the amplifier was especially susceptible (poor amp design). I tend to pay more attention to amplifier output impedance (or damping factor), since I have no control over that, but can always change speaker cables. Here is a short overview of how that can impact frequency response, and helps to illustrate why some amplifier/speaker combinations sound different and why wire might matter: www.audiosciencereview.com/forum/index.php?threads/amplifier-output-impedance-damping-factor-and-speakers.23968/#post-807327 Note the wire is in series with the amplifier's output, raising the impedance the speaker sees. Many years ago I set up and participated in a few double-blind studies. I was in my "every grain of copper matters" stage and it was humbling and revealing to discover how little speaker cable mattered once you had large enough cables to do the job. There was basically no difference among the 20 or so listeners from cheap lamp cord to what today would be multi-thousand dollar cables (like the Fulton Gold I had back then, and are in a box, someplace) once sufficiently low resistance was achieved (nothing else really mattered). Use thin cable, and it would change the frequency response of some speakers, but beyond that it was pretty much a wash. FWIWFM - Don p.s. Here is a link to the classic writing of Roger Russell, McIntosh chief engineer (R.I.P.): roger-russell.com/wire/wire.htm |
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Post by fbczar on Feb 19, 2022 19:30:15 GMT -5
Speaker wires are an interesting subject. I have owned Maggies since 1979 though mine are in storage now. They are almost purely resistive so, albeit low impedance and very insensitive so need some power, are a fairly easy load. Typical speakers have impedance curves that vary widely (perhaps "wildly" is more appropriate) over the audio band, making them more sensitive to the driving impedance (amplifier plus speaker wires). Braided cable, or true Litz cable, has higher capacitance than standard "zip" cord and the wrap/weave can improve common-mode noise rejection. That is rarely an issue for amplifiers and speakers, given the high voltage levels and very low impedances, but can help in some situations. It can also hurt; I was at CES in the early 1980's when the "Cobra Cable" guy hooked them (woven cables) to an early wideband amplifier and the capacitance killed the amp (it oscillated; heard a "chirp" and it was dead). Most amps should handle them just fine, however. Years ago I used large coax (RG-8) for a long speaker run at friend's house. He lived near a radio tower and was getting noise coupled into his system via the speaker cables and into the feedback circuit of the amplifier. Normally, I would add a noise filter on the amp's output, but the cables did the trick without having to mess with the amp. Crossovers are routinely designed to be driven by a near ideal voltage source since that is what the outputs of most (SS) amplifiers look like. If you use small wire and/or long cables such that their impedance gets too large for the crossover, and the impedance varies over frequency (like most speakers), then the frequency response that you hear will vary. The sound will also be attenuated since some energy is lost in the wire, but that is usually a non-issue in a home installation. Tube amplifiers have very high output impedance (often several ohms) so are more sensitive to the speaker, but since their output impedance is already so high, they are typically less sensitive to the speaker cables. Some manufacturers specify a maximum impedance and/or minimum wire gauge (that depends on length) to minimize this issue. Low impedance drive (cables plus amps) also helps with back-EMF, the reverse current generated when a speaker driver moves and then is pushed back by the air force, and also when the driver "overshoots" the stopping point and returns to the starting point (kicking back some charge in the process). How much of that actually gets out the speakers terminals and back to the amp depends upon the design and power level; it is usually only woofers. Both those issues, terminating the input of the crossover and letting the amplifier control back-EMF, require an amplifier with low output impedance and heavy (thick, low enough in resistance) cables to keep the impedance low all the way to the speaker terminals. Using thicker cables (lower numerical AWG) provides lower resistance. Roger Russel and others have tables for that, though tend to emphasis pure loss (attenuation) and less so the impact the crossover might have. What the speaker sees as a driving impedance is the amp plus the speaker cable. After the crossover, inside the speaker, the connecting wires to a conventional driver are going to a big (long) coil of very thin wire (the voice coil), so the argument can be made that wire inside the speaker after the crossover does not matter (much). It needs to handle the current, and low voltage drop is desirable, but the distance is very short so most loudspeakers I have seen do not have real heavy wiring inside the box from crossover to drivers. It is something speaker designers have to manage, natch, especially with varying driver sensitivity and impedances. The crossover does a lot more than just split the frequencies for each driver; it must also match sensitivity and align phase to provide flat output over frequency. I am not a speaker designer, though have done a few, and it is a complex subject. I took a couple of grad courses in acoustics thinking it would be fun; they were educational, but not as "fun" as I had hoped! The math gets deep... Planar dynamics like Magnepan essentially go to wires or foil traces mounted on a thin diaphragm after the crossover. The wires are separated, kind of like unrolling a voice coil and spreading it over a large area with the central magnet replaced by many strips of smaller magnets behind the panel (up to the 20/30 series, which have magnets on both sides). True ribbons are similar though their construction is quite different. The result is a dipole that produces a "wall of sound" in front and in back, with dispersion to sides and top/bottom limited above the frequency determined by the dimensions of the panel. Less energy to the sides means more energy toward the user so they tend to lose less energy (sound) with distance, helping offset their low sensitivity, at least a little. ESLs also use a thin diaphragm, but in a voltage field, and the panel itself basically forms a giant capacitor. They need very high voltage so a transformer is used between amp and speaker, thus the load may not look purely capacitive, but gets very low at high frequencies (often well under 1 ohm) so need heavy wiring and amps stable into very low-impedance loads. (Some ribbon speakers, notably the big Apogee models, also had very low impedance, but they were closer to Maggies in being almost purely resistive, albeit at around 1 ohm!) Some speaker cables (MIT comes to mind) have Zobel networks to help match impedance; I have never been a fan as speaker impedances vary so much, and most are designed to be driven by a low-impedance source anyway so the network simply modifies the frequency response the designer intended. As for me, I tend to choose as heavy wire as I can afford and am willing to deal with, typically stranded 14 or 12 AWG cables though I have a few larger ones around. At audio frequencies, things like skin effect and complex impedance rarely matter (but are a big part of marketing some esoteric cables -- Monster Cable got slapped down in the 80's or 90's for showing bandwidth plots that were fractions of a dB out to MHz, basically blowing up the curves to show a huge difference that was totally inaudible). Additional shielding I have only needed in pro setups, e.g. when speaker and power cables where together in a channel or trench of 100' or more, and in a few cases where RFI was very ( very) high or the amplifier was especially susceptible (poor amp design). I tend to pay more attention to amplifier output impedance (or damping factor), since I have no control over that, but can always change speaker cables. Here is a short overview of how that can impact frequency response, and helps to illustrate why some amplifier/speaker combinations sound different and why wire might matter: www.audiosciencereview.com/forum/index.php?threads/amplifier-output-impedance-damping-factor-and-speakers.23968/#post-807327 Note the wire is in series with the amplifier's output, raising the impedance the speaker sees. Many years ago I set up and participated in a few double-blind studies. I was in my "every grain of copper matters" stage and it was humbling and revealing to discover how little speaker cable mattered once you had large enough cables to do the job. There was basically no difference among the 20 or so listeners from cheap lamp cord to what today would be multi-thousand dollar cables (like the Fulton Gold I had back then, and are in a box, someplace) once sufficiently low resistance was achieved (nothing else really mattered). Use thin cable, and it would change the frequency response of some speakers, but beyond that it was pretty much a wash. FWIWFM - Don p.s. Here is a link to the classic writing of Roger Russell, McIntosh chief engineer (R.I.P.): roger-russell.com/wire/wire.htmGreat post. I never liked MIT with my equipment, maybe you have explained why. The highs were always somewhat dull with MIT. I have owned TDL Reference Standard speakers since the mid 1990’s. When I bought them I got two 15’ lengths of Mark Levinson 10 which is supposedly Litz cable. Very nice, superfine, supple cable. I plan to use it with a pair of Magnepan 3.7i’s if they are ever actually delivered. I use very short 10 gauge cables from my Emotiva XPA-1L amps now. I remember Fulton cable well. It seemed to be a favorite of Stereophile and Absolute Sound way back when. |
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Post by donh50 on Feb 19, 2022 22:21:15 GMT -5
Great post. I never liked MIT with my equipment, maybe you have explained why. The highs were always somewhat dull with MIT. I have owned TDL Reference Standard speakers since the mid 1990’s. When I bought them I got two 15’ lengths of Mark Levinson 10 which is supposedly Litz cable. Very nice, superfine, supple cable. I plan to use it with a pair of Magnepan 3.7i’s if they are ever actually delivered. I use very short 10 gauge cables from my Emotiva XPA-1L amps now. I remember Fulton cable well. It seemed to be a favorite of Stereophile and Absolute Sound way back when. Thank you. I was very lucky as a young college brat to work at a couple of high-end audio stores that allowed me to meet a bunch of legends (and get gear cheap). Cool thing about Robert Fulton: he also played trumpet (started on cornet), and built church sound systems, both things we have (had) in common. FMI was an interesting company, too. He died too young after a really bad car crash, rear ended by a semi IIRC, but he actually died from cancer in the late 1980's, I think. Maybe 1988; I seem to recall he died the year I got my MG-IIIa's. In addition to his cables, I have one of his record mats someplace. He made some speakers that I heard once or twice but do not remember. I had totally forgotten about ML's speaker cables. They were in the mix of the test I mentioned earlier. One of the stores I worked for (as a tech, they knew better than to let me out of the shop -- usually) sold his gear and he brought several versions of his cable by for us to try. I honestly do not remember them. Nor do I remember much about the TDL RS; I have a vague memory of a big angular sort of box with transmission-line woofers on the sides and a line of drivers on a fairly narrow front baffle? I struggled mightily trying to decide on Magnepan 3.7i, 20.x (not sure the .7 was out then), and a couple of other speakers. I knew Roger Sanders when he was in GA, and now he actually lives only an hour or two from my home in CO, but I've only emailed and spoken on the phone with he and Angie a few years ago when I was thinking about his Model 10. I ultimately picked up a pair (and then a few more) Revel Salon2's and have been happy with them. The Maggies will be a big change from the TDLs... Sticking with short cables and amps right behind them is still a good plan IMO. Be prepared to spend some time dialing in placement; the back wave makes it interesting. I have normally killed (damped, absorbed) the back wave unless in a very large room. It takes away some of their "spaciousness" but the comb filtering drove me nuts ( a short drive). Small world - Don |
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Post by localnet on Feb 19, 2022 22:22:46 GMT -5
I enjoy watching many of these folks, Thomas and Stereo is another good one, I find him entertaining.
Danny Richie is fun to watch, I have learned quite a bit from him. I'm not running out and buying a soldering iron any time soon, but it is interesting to see how various speakers measure. And I was surprised at the low quality parts being installed in some of these very expensive speakers. That was an eye opener. A $10 crossover in a $6000 pair of speakers with gorgeous cabinets? I think we know where the cost in the product is going, to the cabinets and the shipping boxes. The actual speaker components are simply an afterthought.
Then Sean at Zero Fidelity, he appears to be a straight shooter, another quality guy in my book with actual experience in the industry. I enjoy his take on things, and have found that after digging into a product, his opinion generally fits what others are saying, or have said.
We also have Steve Gutenberg, The Audiopheliac, I find him entertaining, but mainly watch to check out his latest shirt. Steve is a hoot!
And then we have Andrew Robinson and his wife Kristi... Yeah... Kristi is who I like to hear commenting, she tells it like it is, if it is crap, she says so, "It's CRAP". She never minces words, which is refreshing. She influenced two of my recent purchases when I gutted my 5.2 HT setup, everything except for the pair of SVS SB3000 subs are gone. The KLH Model 5 speakers and the XTZ Edge A2-400 Swedish designed B&O ICE amp.
Her comments were spot on, the KLH speakers ROCK THE HOUSE and the XTZ amp is an amp, she did not even know it was in the chain, and that is exactly what I was looking for, neutrality, and it is. And it really drives the KLH speakers to their full potential, which is incredible to say the least, especially when paired with the SVS subs. Also, Andrews review of the Cambridge Audio Network Streamer was spot on in regards to sound, the DAC in this thing is solid, I even put it up against the Schiit Gungnir, the Schiit went back into the box.
John Darko... Another favorite, he completely sold me on the Cambridge CXN V2 streamer, again, spot on. And I have learned quite a bit from him too, he has some very informative videos on general subjects. This industry changes by the day, and I think that is something we can all agree upon. I find him trustworthy and informative.
I take all of this stuff with a grain of salt, I look at it as entertainment. If they show something I am interested in, there are plenty of audio forums out here to get a feel for a specific product.
There are others, but those folks are my main source of entertainment, I try to stay away from politics, as I have been banned across the internet for my views, now I focus on audio, at least until they find me out and drag me off to a camp. ;-)
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Post by localnet on Feb 19, 2022 22:30:46 GMT -5
According to Danny's Linked-In profile, which for some reason won't post, he did one year at a liberal arts college. Education today, I would not put much stock in. Having been in the medical field as a surgical nurse, and seeing these new doctors and nurses in action compared to when I worked in the field is night and day, and it is not for the better. The same can be said about mechanics. All of the good ones are now retired or dead. And some of the best mechanics and engineers I personally know, are some of the best around and highly sought after. None were formally educated, and they have all stated that was a blessing, as they are able to think outside the box, and do. That is not something that is taught anymore, to think. So, I would go easy on Danny, probably the reason he is so successful, he does not follow the herd. Just my .02 |
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Post by donh50 on Feb 19, 2022 22:31:23 GMT -5
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Post by donh50 on Feb 19, 2022 22:50:30 GMT -5
Education today, I would not put much stock in. Having been in the medical field as a surgical nurse, and seeing these new doctors and nurses in action compared to when I worked in the field is night and day, and it is not for the better. The same can be said about mechanics. All of the good ones are now retired or dead. And some of the best mechanics and engineers I personally know, are some of the best around and highly sought after. None were formally educated, and they have all stated that was a blessing, as they are able to think outside the box, and do. That is not something that is taught anymore, to think. So, I would go easy on Danny, probably the reason he is so successful, he does not follow the herd. Just my .02 Interviewing candidates sometimes makes me wonder if analog circuit theory is even taught anymore. But, college is a good place to learn the basics, be it engineering or medicine (I was pre-med but ultimately stuck with engineering). My biggest personal complaint is that troubleshooting skills and practical knowledge seem to be in short supply in both professions. Too few labs, too few "what if" studies, too much focus on memorizing too many things (for my last organic chemistry class we were supposed to memorize some 300+ reaction equations, many of which were derivatives, but still...) Most of the engineers I have worked with have been fully degreed, but you need a lot of knowledge to make it in IC design. It is a cool career but pretty demanding. I sometimes look back and marvel at what I knew back then, it slips away and technology moves so fast. I crack open my acoustics texts now and then just to remind myself what I've forgotten. Fourth-order integrals are no longer routine... Now, even as an analog guy, I spend a lot of time writing (lousy) Python code. My issue with mechanics today is less about them and more about the way cars have changed. You need an electronics degree to work on a car any more, and the last service manual I bought was 1000+ pages in three volumes, ugh. Following the herd or breaking from it can cause problems. I have gotten in trouble going either way. I like the post above where the videos are viewed more as entertainment; it is very hard to know the veracity of technical details without a lot of knowledge, so it is hard to tell whom to believe. I tend to post when working and almost never watch YouTube videos. They are blocked at work, and at home I just never have the time as I am working, practicing, or trying to ignore the world. At the moment, almost 9 pm Saturday night, I am waiting for a test to finish so I can run in to work in the morning and swap test devices. |
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Post by localnet on Feb 19, 2022 23:09:59 GMT -5
Education today, I would not put much stock in. Having been in the medical field as a surgical nurse, and seeing these new doctors and nurses in action compared to when I worked in the field is night and day, and it is not for the better. The same can be said about mechanics. All of the good ones are now retired or dead. And some of the best mechanics and engineers I personally know, are some of the best around and highly sought after. None were formally educated, and they have all stated that was a blessing, as they are able to think outside the box, and do. That is not something that is taught anymore, to think. So, I would go easy on Danny, probably the reason he is so successful, he does not follow the herd. Just my .02 Interviewing candidates sometimes makes me wonder if analog circuit theory is even taught anymore. But, college is a good place to learn the basics, be it engineering or medicine (I was pre-med but ultimately stuck with engineering). My biggest personal complaint is that troubleshooting skills and practical knowledge seem to be in short supply in both professions. Too few labs, too few "what if" studies, too much focus on memorizing too many things (for my last organic chemistry class we were supposed to memorize some 300+ reaction equations, many of which were derivatives, but still...) Most of the engineers I have worked with have been fully degreed, but you need a lot of knowledge to make it in IC design. It is a cool career but pretty demanding. I sometimes look back and marvel at what I knew back then, it slips away and technology moves so fast. I crack open my acoustics texts now and then just to remind myself what I've forgotten. Fourth-order integrals are no longer routine... Now, even as an analog guy, I spend a lot of time writing (lousy) Python code. My issue with mechanics today is less about them and more about the way cars have changed. You need an electronics degree to work on a car any more, and the last service manual I bought was 1000+ pages in three volumes, ugh. Following the herd or breaking from it can cause problems. I have gotten in trouble going either way. I like the post above where the videos are viewed more as entertainment; it is very hard to know the veracity of technical details without a lot of knowledge, so it is hard to tell whom to believe. I tend to post when working and almost never watch YouTube videos. They are blocked at work, and at home I just never have the time as I am working, practicing, or trying to ignore the world. At the moment, almost 9 pm Saturday night, I am waiting for a test to finish so I can run in to work in the morning and swap test devices. We do live in interesting times... Work... Seven days a week here, now a truck driver, imagine that? I own the truck, and blah, blah, blah... The only reason I am typing away here, they pay me to babysit a warehouse and a plant twenty miles away... 12 on, 12 off, thank God I have a sleeper, my T-Mobile Home Gateway for internet and a good mattress. The mechanics... I paid $38,000 to rebuild my trucks motor, they totally botched it, 70,000 miles later I was at my engineer friend's house rebuilding it in his driveway, as he had the proper cutting tool to set the new liners, something the licensed and certified Cummins shop totally skipped. It's sad, because Cummins gives all of the procedures to rebuild, trouble shoot and repair their motors for free. I rebuilt this motor with a bag of tools I brought from the house and my iPhone. And trust me, it is getting worse out here by the day in regards to repairs. The few times I have taken my truck in for simple stuff, I always seem to be out in the yard repairing their repairs. The education system is more into political indoctrination from my experience with the younger folks with degrees that I have the, ahem, pleasure of dealing with out here. Even in trucking, so many wiz bang kids out here with degrees in logistics, that know nothing about the industry. They think trucks run on hot air, or are able to break the laws of physics. I have hung up the keys more than a few times... And don't get me started on medicine. I can now see why they changed the Hippocratic Oath, they removed the most important line, at least this is my understanding, "first, do no harm". I will leave it at that. Yep, interesting times... ;-) |
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Post by donh50 on Feb 19, 2022 23:32:44 GMT -5
We do live in interesting times... Work... Seven days a week here, now a truck driver, imagine that? I own the truck, and blah, blah, blah... The only reason I am typing away here, they pay me to babysit a warehouse and a plant twenty miles away... 12 on, 12 off, thank God I have a sleeper, my T-Mobile Home Gateway for internet and a good mattress. The mechanics... I paid $38,000 to rebuild my trucks motor, they totally botched it, 70,000 miles later I was at my engineer friend's house rebuilding it in his driveway, as he had the proper cutting tool to set the new liners, something the licensed and certified Cummins shop totally skipped. It's sad, because Cummins gives all of the procedures to rebuild, trouble shoot and repair their motors for free. I rebuilt this motor with a bag of tools I brought from the house and my iPhone. And trust me, it is getting worse out here by the day in regards to repairs. The few times I have taken my truck in for simple stuff, I always seem to be out in the yard repairing their repairs. The education system is more into political indoctrination from my experience with the younger folks with degrees that I have the, ahem, pleasure of dealing with out here. Even in trucking, so many wiz bang kids out here with degrees in logistics, that know nothing about the industry. They think trucks run on hot air, or are able to break the laws of physics. I have hung up the keys more than a few times... And don't get me started on medicine. I can now see why they changed the Hippocratic Oath, they removed the most important line, at least this is my understanding, "first, do no harm". I will leave it at that. Yep, interesting times... ;-) I had my CDL once upon a time, but aside from helping a friend as co-driver across Kansas in the 80's never really used it. Now, I hate driving... On the rest, yah... Test is done, to work, and then to sleep, g'night - Don |
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Post by localnet on Feb 19, 2022 23:41:19 GMT -5
We do live in interesting times... Work... Seven days a week here, now a truck driver, imagine that? I own the truck, and blah, blah, blah... The only reason I am typing away here, they pay me to babysit a warehouse and a plant twenty miles away... 12 on, 12 off, thank God I have a sleeper, my T-Mobile Home Gateway for internet and a good mattress. The mechanics... I paid $38,000 to rebuild my trucks motor, they totally botched it, 70,000 miles later I was at my engineer friend's house rebuilding it in his driveway, as he had the proper cutting tool to set the new liners, something the licensed and certified Cummins shop totally skipped. It's sad, because Cummins gives all of the procedures to rebuild, trouble shoot and repair their motors for free. I rebuilt this motor with a bag of tools I brought from the house and my iPhone. And trust me, it is getting worse out here by the day in regards to repairs. The few times I have taken my truck in for simple stuff, I always seem to be out in the yard repairing their repairs. The education system is more into political indoctrination from my experience with the younger folks with degrees that I have the, ahem, pleasure of dealing with out here. Even in trucking, so many wiz bang kids out here with degrees in logistics, that know nothing about the industry. They think trucks run on hot air, or are able to break the laws of physics. I have hung up the keys more than a few times... And don't get me started on medicine. I can now see why they changed the Hippocratic Oath, they removed the most important line, at least this is my understanding, "first, do no harm". I will leave it at that. Yep, interesting times... ;-) I had my CDL once upon a time, but aside from helping a friend as co-driver across Kansas in the 80's never really used it. Now, I hate driving... On the rest, yah... Test is done, to work, and then to sleep, g'night - Don Good night Don, and you are not missing a thing. |
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Post by garbulky on Feb 20, 2022 1:39:14 GMT -5
I enjoy watching many of these folks, Thomas and Stereo is another good one, I find him entertaining. Danny Richie is fun to watch, I have learned quite a bit from him. I'm not running out and buying a soldering iron any time soon, but it is interesting to see how various speakers measure. And I was surprised at the low quality parts being installed in some of these very expensive speakers. That was an eye opener. A $10 crossover in a $6000 pair of speakers with gorgeous cabinets? I think we know where the cost in the product is going, to the cabinets and the shipping boxes. The actual speaker components are simply an afterthought. Then Sean at Zero Fidelity, he appears to be a straight shooter, another quality guy in my book with actual experience in the industry. I enjoy his take on things, and have found that after digging into a product, his opinion generally fits what others are saying, or have said. We also have Steve Gutenberg, The Audiopheliac, I find him entertaining, but mainly watch to check out his latest shirt. Steve is a hoot! And then we have Andrew Robinson and his wife Kristi... Yeah... Kristi is who I like to hear commenting, she tells it like it is, if it is crap, she says so, "It's CRAP". She never minces words, which is refreshing. She influenced two of my recent purchases when I gutted my 5.2 HT setup, everything except for the pair of SVS SB3000 subs are gone. The KLH Model 5 speakers and the XTZ Edge A2-400 Swedish designed B&O ICE amp. Her comments were spot on, the KLH speakers ROCK THE HOUSE and the XTZ amp is an amp, she did not even know it was in the chain, and that is exactly what I was looking for, neutrality, and it is. And it really drives the KLH speakers to their full potential, which is incredible to say the least, especially when paired with the SVS subs. Also, Andrews review of the Cambridge Audio Network Streamer was spot on in regards to sound, the DAC in this thing is solid, I even put it up against the Schiit Gungnir, the Schiit went back into the box. John Darko... Another favorite, he completely sold me on the Cambridge CXN V2 streamer, again, spot on. And I have learned quite a bit from him too, he has some very informative videos on general subjects. This industry changes by the day, and I think that is something we can all agree upon. I find him trustworthy and informative. I take all of this stuff with a grain of salt, I look at it as entertainment. If they show something I am interested in, there are plenty of audio forums out here to get a feel for a specific product. There are others, but those folks are my main source of entertainment, I try to stay away from politics, as I have been banned across the internet for my views, now I focus on audio, at least until they find me out and drag me off to a camp. ;-) Yeah Andrew's wife is great in the reviews because she is SO FRANK. Like there is zero leeway given if it doesn't cut the mustard. Very refreshing. It's also funny that almost all the best sh*ttalk is done off camera to the side as Andrew listens. |
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Post by localnet on Feb 20, 2022 2:36:28 GMT -5
I enjoy watching many of these folks, Thomas and Stereo is another good one, I find him entertaining. Danny Richie is fun to watch, I have learned quite a bit from him. I'm not running out and buying a soldering iron any time soon, but it is interesting to see how various speakers measure. And I was surprised at the low quality parts being installed in some of these very expensive speakers. That was an eye opener. A $10 crossover in a $6000 pair of speakers with gorgeous cabinets? I think we know where the cost in the product is going, to the cabinets and the shipping boxes. The actual speaker components are simply an afterthought. Then Sean at Zero Fidelity, he appears to be a straight shooter, another quality guy in my book with actual experience in the industry. I enjoy his take on things, and have found that after digging into a product, his opinion generally fits what others are saying, or have said. We also have Steve Gutenberg, The Audiopheliac, I find him entertaining, but mainly watch to check out his latest shirt. Steve is a hoot! And then we have Andrew Robinson and his wife Kristi... Yeah... Kristi is who I like to hear commenting, she tells it like it is, if it is crap, she says so, "It's CRAP". She never minces words, which is refreshing. She influenced two of my recent purchases when I gutted my 5.2 HT setup, everything except for the pair of SVS SB3000 subs are gone. The KLH Model 5 speakers and the XTZ Edge A2-400 Swedish designed B&O ICE amp. Her comments were spot on, the KLH speakers ROCK THE HOUSE and the XTZ amp is an amp, she did not even know it was in the chain, and that is exactly what I was looking for, neutrality, and it is. And it really drives the KLH speakers to their full potential, which is incredible to say the least, especially when paired with the SVS subs. Also, Andrews review of the Cambridge Audio Network Streamer was spot on in regards to sound, the DAC in this thing is solid, I even put it up against the Schiit Gungnir, the Schiit went back into the box. John Darko... Another favorite, he completely sold me on the Cambridge CXN V2 streamer, again, spot on. And I have learned quite a bit from him too, he has some very informative videos on general subjects. This industry changes by the day, and I think that is something we can all agree upon. I find him trustworthy and informative. I take all of this stuff with a grain of salt, I look at it as entertainment. If they show something I am interested in, there are plenty of audio forums out here to get a feel for a specific product. There are others, but those folks are my main source of entertainment, I try to stay away from politics, as I have been banned across the internet for my views, now I focus on audio, at least until they find me out and drag me off to a camp. ;-) Yeah Andrew's wife is great in the reviews because she is SO FRANK. Like there is zero leeway given if it doesn't cut the mustard. Very refreshing. It's also funny that almost all the best sh*ttalk is done off camera to the side as Andrew listens. Kristi is a pistol, I think we know who wears the pants, LOL! If you have ever read her comments in the comment section, she can be a mean one, scratch your eyes out kind of gal, like most women. But, I actually listen for her take, Andrew only reviews stuff he likes, and Kristi is there to set him straight, they work good together. Her take on the KLH Model 5 speakers was spot on, even to go as far as stating it would be a better pick over their beloved Klipsch. Having heard the Klipsch myself, and seen the price tag, the KLH are a much nicer and better performing speaker to my ear and wallet, especially when fed healthy doses of power. She picked a winner! |
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