BASX A2 fan noise?

[chippower]

I recently purchased an A2. It's paired with a Marantz NR-1200 as preamp and driving Polk R600 speakers. Over the last few weeks I've been gradually increasing the time and volume, and this evening I really "kicked it up a notch" playing an entire rock CD at a pretty high volume. For sure anyone walking by my house could hear the bass if not the rest of the tracks.

When the album ended, I heard a pretty loud noise coming from the A2 - like the fan noise that comes from a computer sometimes. So I turned it off for a few minutes. Then turned it on again and replicated it with some more volume. Obviously the noise isn't bothersome when the music is loud, but it's concerning because I've never had such a noise coming from audio equipment. Stupid question I suppose, but does the A2 even have a fan? Or am I hearing something else? I didn't hear the noise before using it. The top was warm but far from hot. 

In case anyone asks, the amp is in a furniture-style cabinet sitting on a wooden shelf with 5.5" of clearance above and 3+" on each side. 

[AudioHTIT]

Sept 7, 2022 20:01:36 GMT -5 chippower said:

I recently purchased an A2. It's paired with a Marantz NR-1200 as preamp and driving Polk R600 speakers. Over the last few weeks I've been gradually increasing the time and volume, and this evening I really "kicked it up a notch" playing an entire rock CD at a pretty high volume. For sure anyone walking by my house could hear the bass if not the rest of the tracks.

When the album ended, I heard a pretty loud noise coming from the A2 - like the fan noise that comes from a computer sometimes. So I turned it off for a few minutes. Then turned it on again and replicated it with some more volume. Obviously the noise isn't bothersome when the music is loud, but it's concerning because I've never had such a noise coming from audio equipment. Stupid question I suppose, but does the A2 even have a fan? Or am I hearing something else? I didn't hear the noise before using it. The top was warm but far from hot. 

In case anyone asks, the amp is in a furniture-style cabinet sitting on a wooden shelf with 5.5" of clearance above and 3+" on each side. 

I’ve not had one of the current BasX amps, but did have an A-700 from a previous series. I also heard fan noise during quiet passages, between songs, and when idling. I sent mine back, but most others have not complained about it. My amp had plenty of airspace around it.

Edit: If you have a calibrated mic and can take an SPL measurement at 1 Meter or other set distance, it might help if you contact Emotiva.

[ttocs]

My A-800 has two small fans inside. The only time I can ever hear them is when it's very quiet in the room. Maybe this weekend when I get my system all connected again I can measure the SPL.

[scythe944]

Sept 7, 2022 20:01:36 GMT -5 chippower said:

I recently purchased an A2. It's paired with a Marantz NR-1200 as preamp and driving Polk R600 speakers. Over the last few weeks I've been gradually increasing the time and volume, and this evening I really "kicked it up a notch" playing an entire rock CD at a pretty high volume. For sure anyone walking by my house could hear the bass if not the rest of the tracks.

When the album ended, I heard a pretty loud noise coming from the A2 - like the fan noise that comes from a computer sometimes. So I turned it off for a few minutes. Then turned it on again and replicated it with some more volume. Obviously the noise isn't bothersome when the music is loud, but it's concerning because I've never had such a noise coming from audio equipment. Stupid question I suppose, but does the A2 even have a fan? Or am I hearing something else? I didn't hear the noise before using it. The top was warm but far from hot. 

In case anyone asks, the amp is in a furniture-style cabinet sitting on a wooden shelf with 5.5" of clearance above and 3+" on each side. 

Hi, I have the same amp and yes, it certainly does have fans.  When I crank mine up like you did, I certainly hear it when the music ends.  It isn't loud but you can hear it. Just let it do its thing, it will cool the amp down and then shut off when it reaches a lower temperature.

[davidl81]

Oct 25, 2022 7:19:42 GMT -5 scythe944 said:

Sept 7, 2022 20:01:36 GMT -5 chippower said:

I recently purchased an A2. It's paired with a Marantz NR-1200 as preamp and driving Polk R600 speakers. Over the last few weeks I've been gradually increasing the time and volume, and this evening I really "kicked it up a notch" playing an entire rock CD at a pretty high volume. For sure anyone walking by my house could hear the bass if not the rest of the tracks.

When the album ended, I heard a pretty loud noise coming from the A2 - like the fan noise that comes from a computer sometimes. So I turned it off for a few minutes. Then turned it on again and replicated it with some more volume. Obviously the noise isn't bothersome when the music is loud, but it's concerning because I've never had such a noise coming from audio equipment. Stupid question I suppose, but does the A2 even have a fan? Or am I hearing something else? I didn't hear the noise before using it. The top was warm but far from hot. 

In case anyone asks, the amp is in a furniture-style cabinet sitting on a wooden shelf with 5.5" of clearance above and 3+" on each side. 

Hi, I have the same amp and yes, it certainly does have fans.  When I crank mine up like you did, I certainly hear it when the music ends.  It isn't loud but you can hear it. Just let it do its thing, it will cool the amp down and then shut off when it reaches a lower temperature.

There are a fairly large batch of these amps with bad fans, I had one and it was much louder than normal fan noise. I would call Emotiva and see if they will repair it. It is fairly loud.

[405x5]

Ahh Yes….these LITTLE fans….
Everywhere they are put to use they are the veritable double edged sword because where they go…..DIRT always follows.
Sorry 😢…. I just can’t help myself because I’ve had so much experience with these things both good, necessary and bad that you can’t help but ponder it.
Working backwards from here, my amplifiers of choice have made use of fans totally unnecessary from day one so no noise and no mess.
The CPU fans for the computers is another story all together. Every year, the ritual comes around of taking the PC tower out the front door with the vac. and the Dust Off, to get rid of all that scary stuff collected inside.
Then, we go to the refrigerator fan….Now that’s a scary one! Around that little fan the most frightening collection of gooy ooowy stuff ever seen by Man gathererd around. If you don’t get to it in time. The fan jambs up and stops then the heat in the motor burns it out and no defrost cycle until fixed.
And there’s more with little fans from my tenure in the commercial food business but that’s another story for another day.

[leonski]

Many years ago I bought a Lian Li computer case. It came with enough fans that when added to the fans on the PowerSupply and CPU AND graphics card?
It sounded like a Helicopter landing on the roof.
But the fans on the FRONT of the case blowing INTO the case? FILTERED. And needed cleaning montly if not more often. This helped the whole dust situation, but
I still had to crack the case periodically and just CLEAN........CPU fan was the worst.

For a Stereo? Why a fan? Probably because Heat Sink is expensive AND you must build larger and stronger to make it work.
A fan might be cheaper short term......but I suspect a PIA in the long run.....

I would TEND to avoid fans in my stereo / hifi.....

[ttocs]

I discovered something about this issue today.

For the last couple years since getting a BasX A-800 amp, it has never gotten warm. It's always been just slightly warmer than room temperature. So I've had my XMC-2 sitting on top of it for almost that entire time, and it still never gets warm.

It has always made a slight noise, however, that I always thought was caused by the two fans inside. Well, it's not.

A few weeks ago I moved my components from the front of the room to the rear, in sort of an alcove. Since then I've been thinking that the fans were making more noise, so I contacted Emotiva about this and was told to send it in for service. I can't find the box, so it may have been discarded when I had someone organizing my basement early this year. So, because I was thinking I wouldn't send it in for repair due to the trouble of getting a replacement box etc, last night I decided to pop the top and see if the fans just needed cleaning, but they're perfectly clean. No dust at all. Why? Because they don't turn on, because they aren't needed for what the amp is expected to power, apparently.

But the amp still makes noise - even though the fans are not moving!  Whaaaaat?!

In my case, apparently what's happening is since moving the components to this alcove, the alcove must be acting like a horn and directing the sound towards my seat, so the noise seems louder.

What's making this noise? I don't know! But it's not little, itty bitty fans!

So now I'm not sure what to do here. If it's always made this noise, is it a problem, or an expected design issue?

[AudioHTIT]

Oct 26, 2022 11:07:44 GMT -5 ttocs said:

I discovered something about this issue today.

For the last couple years since getting a BasX A-800 amp, it has never gotten warm. It's always been just slightly warmer than room temperature. So I've had my XMC-2 sitting on top of it for almost that entire time, and it still never gets warm.

It has always made a slight noise, however, that I always thought was caused by the two fans inside. Well, it's not.

A few weeks ago I moved my components from the front of the room to the rear, in sort of an alcove. Since then I've been thinking that the fans were making more noise, so I contacted Emotiva about this and was told to send it in for service. I can't find the box, so it may have been discarded when I had someone organizing my basement early this year. So, because I was thinking I wouldn't send it in for repair due to the trouble of getting a replacement box etc, last night I decided to pop the top and see if the fans just needed cleaning, but they're perfectly clean. No dust at all. Why? Because they don't turn on, because they aren't needed for what the amp is expected to power, apparently.

But the amp still makes noise - even though the fans are not moving!  Whaaaaat?!

In my case, apparently what's happening is since moving the components to this alcove, the alcove must be acting like a horn and directing the sound towards my seat, so the noise seems louder.

What's making this noise? I don't know! But it's not little, itty bitty fans!

So now I'm not sure what to do here. If it's always made this noise, is it a problem, or an expected design issue?

When you mentioned having your XMC-2 sitting on top I thought this would turn out to be ‘mechanical’ hum, like a vibration from the power supply, but it sounds like you’ve explored that? So some component in the amp (other than the fans) is emitting this noise? Can you estimate a general frequency range, or better yet give us an AudioTools RTA (I know you want to! 🙂).

This reminds me of the high pitch sound we used to hear from CRT TVs, I believe it was the oscillator that produced the scan frequency? I’ve always wondered whether that could have contributed to tinnitus, as what I hear is very similar to that old TV sound — I had a friend in the 6th grade that would brag he could walk into a room blindfolded and with the volume off tell the TV was on. I soon realized that wasn’t much of a feat, as it was pretty obvious.

[ttocs]

Oct 26, 2022 11:41:38 GMT -5 AudioHTIT said:

Oct 26, 2022 11:07:44 GMT -5 ttocs said:

I discovered something about this issue today.

For the last couple years since getting a BasX A-800 amp, it has never gotten warm. It's always been just slightly warmer than room temperature. So I've had my XMC-2 sitting on top of it for almost that entire time, and it still never gets warm.

It has always made a slight noise, however, that I always thought was caused by the two fans inside. Well, it's not.

A few weeks ago I moved my components from the front of the room to the rear, in sort of an alcove. Since then I've been thinking that the fans were making more noise, so I contacted Emotiva about this and was told to send it in for service. I can't find the box, so it may have been discarded when I had someone organizing my basement early this year. So, because I was thinking I wouldn't send it in for repair due to the trouble of getting a replacement box etc, last night I decided to pop the top and see if the fans just needed cleaning, but they're perfectly clean. No dust at all. Why? Because they don't turn on, because they aren't needed for what the amp is expected to power, apparently.

But the amp still makes noise - even though the fans are not moving!  Whaaaaat?!

In my case, apparently what's happening is since moving the components to this alcove, the alcove must be acting like a horn and directing the sound towards my seat, so the noise seems louder.

What's making this noise? I don't know! But it's not little, itty bitty fans!

So now I'm not sure what to do here. If it's always made this noise, is it a problem, or an expected design issue?

When you mentioned having your XMC-2 sitting on top I thought this would turn out to be ‘mechanical’ hum, like a vibration from the power supply, but it sounds like you’ve explored that? So some component in the amp (other than the fans) is emitting this noise? Can you estimate a general frequency range, or better yet give us an AudioTools RTA (I know you want to! 🙂).

This reminds me of the high pitch sound we used to hear from CRT TVs, I believe it was the oscillator that produced the scan frequency? I’ve always wondered whether that could have contributed to tinnitus, as what I hear is very similar to that old TV sound — I had a friend in the 6th grade that would brag he could walk into a room blindfolded and with the volume off tell the TV was on. I soon realized that wasn’t much of a feat, as it was pretty obvious.

Yes I did run RTA! You know me well!  I'll post it when I get back home.

I actually ran RTA because I wanted to use the mic to "sniff" where the sound was the loudest to maybe pinpoint the source, and yes, I kept the mic above where the top lid of the amp would be so there'd be no lightning occurring.

And to be clear about this, the only difference from before a few weeks ago and since a few weeks ago it the location on the BasX Amp and XMC-2. They are stacked the same as always. But instead of being in a very open space, a few feet from the front wall and 12 feet from the left and right walls, the components are now in the right rear corner of the room with windows on the right and pushed back to the rear wall and a fridge cabinet to its left and the left-right space is only 5 feet, so that's why I say it's kinda like a horn.

Regarding your comment about mechanical vibration, I do think the metal top of the amp contributes and maybe "joins in" with making the noise more audible. Without the top on, the noise is less noticeable. But I only tinkered for a few minutes last night. I'll delve into it more tonight.

With regards to CRT whine, when I was young I used to sit in a certain spot and adjust my head to reduce the high pitched whine of the CRT because it was annoying.

[ttocs]

It suddenly occurred to me that there is one other difference with where the BasX amp is now. When it was in the front of the room, it was on a platform with casters that had a rubber mat material, toolbox shelf liner, and now it's just on a wood shelf. So the shelf is something else it can resonate with.

[405x5]

Oct 26, 2022 11:07:44 GMT -5 ttocs said:

I discovered something about this issue today.

For the last couple years since getting a BasX A-800 amp, it has never gotten warm. It's always been just slightly warmer than room temperature. So I've had my XMC-2 sitting on top of it for almost that entire time, and it still never gets warm.

It has always made a slight noise, however, that I always thought was caused by the two fans inside. Well, it's not.

A few weeks ago I moved my components from the front of the room to the rear, in sort of an alcove. Since then I've been thinking that the fans were making more noise, so I contacted Emotiva about this and was told to send it in for service. I can't find the box, so it may have been discarded when I had someone organizing my basement early this year. So, because I was thinking I wouldn't send it in for repair due to the trouble of getting a replacement box etc, last night I decided to pop the top and see if the fans just needed cleaning, but they're perfectly clean. No dust at all. Why? Because they don't turn on, because they aren't needed for what the amp is expected to power, apparently.

But the amp still makes noise - even though the fans are not moving!  Whaaaaat?!

In my case, apparently what's happening is since moving the components to this alcove, the alcove must be acting like a horn and directing the sound towards my seat, so the noise seems louder.

What's making this noise? I don't know! But it's not little, itty bitty fans!

So now I'm not sure what to do here. If it's always made this noise, is it a problem, or an expected design issue?

I found out (quite a few years after the fact) that the layout on the chassis of my favorite amplifier at the time was reconfigured with a new and larger power supply. At first, I thought the upgrade had to do with the improve spec on the amp, but the reality of it turned out to be an effort to make the amplifier even quieter than it already is at idle.
If you moved your electronics into a smaller space, I’m sure that subtle nuance you’re talking about is now amplified and you were more aware of it. The other thing that could be happening is a weakening capacitor, low-level hum that gets a little louder over time is indicative of a failure on the way.

[ttocs]

Oct 26, 2022 12:23:34 GMT -5 405x5 said:

If you moved your electronics into a smaller space, I’m sure that subtle nuance you’re talking about is now amplified and you were more aware of it.

The other thing that could be happening is a weakening capacitor, low-level hum that gets a little louder over time is indicative of a failure on the way.

I'm sure that the smaller space is "amplifying" the noise vs having a large space in which to dissipate.

I don't know what the source of this noise is, but it's existed since day one. It sounds a bit like hiss from a distance, but up close it sounds more like something clicking extremely fast. It's a mechanical noise within the amp box itself, not one that is being sent to speakers.

[leonski]

Oct 26, 2022 11:07:44 GMT -5 ttocs said:

I discovered something about this issue today.

For the last couple years since getting a BasX A-800 amp, it has never gotten warm. It's always been just slightly warmer than room temperature. So I've had my XMC-2 sitting on top of it for almost that entire time, and it still never gets warm.

It has always made a slight noise, however, that I always thought was caused by the two fans inside. Well, it's not.

A few weeks ago I moved my components from the front of the room to the rear, in sort of an alcove. Since then I've been thinking that the fans were making more noise, so I contacted Emotiva about this and was told to send it in for service. I can't find the box, so it may have been discarded when I had someone organizing my basement early this year. So, because I was thinking I wouldn't send it in for repair due to the trouble of getting a replacement box etc, last night I decided to pop the top and see if the fans just needed cleaning, but they're perfectly clean. No dust at all. Why? Because they don't turn on, because they aren't needed for what the amp is expected to power, apparently.

But the amp still makes noise - even though the fans are not moving!  Whaaaaat?!

In my case, apparently what's happening is since moving the components to this alcove, the alcove must be acting like a horn and directing the sound towards my seat, so the noise seems louder.

What's making this noise? I don't know! But it's not little, itty bitty fans!

So now I'm not sure what to do here. If it's always made this noise, is it a problem, or an expected design issue?

HUMMMMM?    BUZZZZZ?   CHIRPPP?    SQUEEK?     

Transformers can be noisy.....especially toroids with a LITTLE bit of DC offset on the inputline.....Checking the holddown centerbolt for tension MAY help.....

Other than that?     Buzzing CAP?     Squeaky connection?     Is the DOG a ventriloquist?     Have YOU flipped?    

A little insulation on the inside of the new enclosure?    You're down to some pretty weird stuff here.....

[ttocs]

Oct 26, 2022 17:37:56 GMT -5 leonski said:

Transformers can be noisy.....especially toroids .....

Bingo. Magnetostriction. This is what I think is the root of the noise. I figured this out a few hours ago, but needed some material. Stay tuned.

edit: This afternoon is when I came to the conclusion that it's something to do with the toroidal transformer. As you say, these can be noisy, and lots of folks try to tame the noise with one solution or another. The hold-down bolt didn't have a rubber washer on the bottom, or the top, but it's the bottom that I wanted some amount of isolation between the bolt and the case, so I added a rubber washer. Also, I added some rubber mat material between the tranny and the case bottom, the tranny has a plastic "isolation" disc on the bottom and there's the same material at the top for the bolt to snug down to. After adding the rubber material, I hand tightened the center bolt, just snug enough.

When I place my ear against the side of the amp, there is a slight hum, normal. But it's the ticking sound that was annoying. I finally figured out what it's similar to - a geiger counter. Just think of how a geiger counter tick sounds, a bit erratic, but fast paced when it senses something. Well, this is how mine sounded. Now, so far, with the rubber mat in place under the tranny, the noise is greatly reduced.

Since this is a thermal issue, I believe, it'll take more time to run the amp over enough time to build some internal "heat" (nothing inside the amp ever gets hot), plus it probably needs some heat/cool cycles before a definite conclusion can be made, but it's sounding like a lot less noise. I put the components back exactly as before, with no added rubber mat between the shelf and amp. The only difference so far is a rubber washer between bolt and case, and rubber disc under the tranny. But the noise is less audible.

[ttocs]

AudioHTIT here's your RTA plot! This is after the DIY stuff on the amp. The low trace is with the amp off, and the mic is held just above the top of the amp in a couple spots with the case top installed so the amp is closed up.

[leonski]

If megnetostriction? Not 'heat' related, but a funciton of movement of the plates / laminations of the transformer TO the magntic field...which reverses AND may have some DC involved.

I've seen 'potted' transformers set in something like epoxy.....and baked in. Probably expensive as OEM, and impossible to do at home. Insulation maybe 105c rated but in any event?

30 minutes 'curing' in the oven at 250 f would probably cause damage.

If you could find a chunk of HeatShrink 6mm to 12mm greater in diameter than the tranny? Than SHRINK it on which would apply a uniform compression to the whole Enchilada and quiet it.....maybe?

I wouldn't worry about higher frequencies. What is the level from maybe 30hz to 480hz? Call it 4 octaves.....

[marcl]

In the late 60's my dad bought a 19" B&W Zenith TV for his bedroom. I watched the moon landing on that TV in '69.  It was one of the first TV's with a mechanical remote control ... pressing one of the buttons on the remote mechanically plucked a tuning fork that made a tone that the TV picked up with a sensor. Depending on the frequency, the stepping motors attached to the volume and tuning knobs on the front of the TV would advance or reverse one step for each press of the button. But I digress ...

The TV developed a high pitch whine that came from the upper right side. My dad would get up and pound the side of the TV with his fist, and the whine would stop ... for a while, anyway. Yeah, a transformer. The TV case was metal and was eventually dented in about an inch from the pounding.

So, just a suggestion 

[AudioHTIT]

Oct 27, 2022 5:30:56 GMT -5 marcl said:

In the late 60's my dad bought a 19" B&W Zenith TV for his bedroom. I watched the moon landing on that TV in '69.  It was one of the first TV's with a mechanical remote control ... pressing one of the buttons on the remote mechanically plucked a tuning fork that made a tone that the TV picked up with a sensor. Depending on the frequency, the stepping motors attached to the volume and tuning knobs on the front of the TV would advance or reverse one step for each press of the button. But I digress ...

The TV developed a high pitch whine that came from the upper right side. My dad would get up and pound the side of the TV with his fist, and the whine would stop ... for a while, anyway. Yeah, a transformer. The TV case was metal and was eventually dented in about an inch from the pounding.

So, just a suggestion 

My grandfather had an early one of those, also the 60s, I thought it pretty cool.

[405x5]

Maybe 🤔 some companies will return the option of banging on the thing to make it work (I miss that)