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Post by ttocs on Oct 21, 2024 15:02:28 GMT -5
While it might be de rigueur, the problem I have with the 15.1, 19.5, etc. nomenclature in this thread, is that it's too ambiguous. We've seen the rear panel of the RMC-1+, and have no reason to believe the XMC-2+ will be any different (except slots and thingies). This tells us that while 7.1.6 will work, that 7.3.6, or 7.2.6 won't (even though they're within the channel count), so people shouldn't get their hopes up that they might — if they also want to use DLBC. With the RMC-1+ (sans cards) or the XMC-2+ (no options), I had hoped for 7.2.6 or 9.2.4, out of the box*. —AudioHTIT : 7.2.4 ... aspiring to 9.3.6 1 The sub counts greater than x.1.x are for DLBC (if and when available) 2 Do we know if the bi-amp option is there, or if the bug is fixed? The XMC-2+ and RMC-1+ have the same default channel configs as current. Please see photo of RMC-1+ back panel from Emofest. Any x.6.x without expansion modules will need to use the Left/Right Sub Outputs as Heights to get the Height channel count to 6. 2 When you ask if the bug is fixed, if you are referring to when using Reference Stereo while using the Width channels for bi-amping, this is not a bug. The Width channels are part of the digital signal path and will not function without a delay when used for bi-amping along with the Front L&R channels in any analog signal setting, but will work with digital signal paths. Will this situation be treated differently in the new +Series? Doubtful. |
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Post by tngiloy on Oct 21, 2024 15:20:29 GMT -5
I have the same problem as Stephen Park. Roon does not recognize the RMC-1L and as such won't allow dsd to be sent over hdmi- either 'native' or 'DoP'. It offers DoP, but it doesn't work. I need to 'convert to pcm' in the Roon Nucleus. My Oppo 103 is recognized by Roon and allows dsd over hdmi. Does this mean that Emotiva has worked with Roon re the XMC-2 but not the RMC-1's ?? View Attachmentstephen Parks- Does the RMC-1 have the same chips (?) as the Onkyo?? Does that allow you to pass dsd over hdmi? Ahhhhhhhhhhh, DSD, tried it, but don't use it. View AttachmentDoes Roon recognize your XMC-2 as an XMC-2 when you 'identify this device' in Roon? Or did you just set it up generically and name it as XMC-2? I understand you're not using dsd, but I'm wondering if Emotiva actually took the effort to get the XMC-2 into Roon's database, but didn't do it for the RMC-1/L's. That would be weird. |
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Post by AudioHTIT on Oct 21, 2024 15:25:15 GMT -5
While it might be de rigueur, the problem I have with the 15.1, 19.5, etc. nomenclature in this thread, is that it's too ambiguous. We've seen the rear panel of the RMC-1+, and have no reason to believe the XMC-2+ will be any different (except slots and thingies). This tells us that while 7.1.6 will work, that 7.3.6, or 7.2.6 won't (even though they're within the channel count), so people shouldn't get their hopes up that they might — if they also want to use DLBC. With the RMC-1+ (sans cards) or the XMC-2+ (no options), I had hoped for 7.2.6 or 9.2.4, out of the box*. —AudioHTIT : 7.2.4 ... aspiring to 9.3.6 1 The sub counts greater than x.1.x are for DLBC (if and when available) 2 Do we know if the bi-amp option is there, or if the bug is fixed? The XMC-2+ and RMC-1+ have the same default channel configs as current. Please see photo of RMC-1+ back panel from Emofest. Any x.6.x without expansion modules will need to use the Left/Right Sub Outputs as Heights to get the Height channel count to 6. 2 When you ask if the bug is fixed, if you are referring to when using Reference Stereo while using the Width channels for bi-amping, this is not a bug. The Width channels are part of the digital signal path and will not function without a delay when used for bi-amping along with the Front L&R channels in any analog signal setting, but will work with digital signal paths. Will this situation be treated differently in the new +Series? Doubtful. Yes on the first two, and somewhat the point I'm making, without expansion modules this is what we can do (some here have commented or hoped it would be different). And yes on the Reference mode 'bi-amp feature', so I'm asking "Is the Bi-Amp option still there?" and "Is it still limited by the digital path?". I still call it a bug, because I don't think it's documented except here in various threads. I managed to use the bi-amp feature it in a way where this wasn't a problem, but although there were two amps involved, I doubt most would call it bi-amping. |
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Post by PaulBe on Oct 21, 2024 15:37:23 GMT -5
While it might be de rigueur, the problem I have with the 15.1, 19.5, etc. nomenclature in this thread, is that it's too ambiguous. We've seen the rear panel of the RMC-1+, and have no reason to believe the XMC-2+ will be any different (except slots and thingies). This tells us that while 7.1.6 will work, that 7.3.6, or 7.2.6 won't (even though they're within the channel count), so people shouldn't get their hopes up that they might — if they also want to use DLBC. With the RMC-1+ (sans cards) or the XMC-2+ (no options), I had hoped for 7.2.6 or 9.2.4, out of the box*. —AudioHTIT : 7.2.4 ... aspiring to 9.3.6 1 The sub counts greater than x.1.x are for DLBC (if and when available) 2 Do we know if the bi-amp option is there, or if the bug is fixed? The XMC-2+ and RMC-1+ have the same default channel configs as current. Please see photo of RMC-1+ back panel from Emofest. Any x.6.x without expansion modules will need to use the Left/Right Sub Outputs as Heights to get the Height channel count to 6.
2 When you ask if the bug is fixed, if you are referring to when using Reference Stereo while using the Width channels for bi-amping, this is not a bug. The Width channels are part of the digital signal path and will not function without a delay when used for bi-amping along with the Front L&R channels in any analog signal setting, but will work with digital signal paths. Will this situation be treated differently in the new +Series? Doubtful. Since we are trying to speak clearly here, I think the correct terminology is "Any x.x.6...". Not "Any x.6.x...". |
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Post by PaulBe on Oct 21, 2024 15:38:37 GMT -5
The XMC-2+ and RMC-1+ have the same default channel configs as current. Please see photo of RMC-1+ back panel from Emofest. Any x.6.x without expansion modules will need to use the Left/Right Sub Outputs as Heights to get the Height channel count to 6. 2 When you ask if the bug is fixed, if you are referring to when using Reference Stereo while using the Width channels for bi-amping, this is not a bug. The Width channels are part of the digital signal path and will not function without a delay when used for bi-amping along with the Front L&R channels in any analog signal setting, but will work with digital signal paths. Will this situation be treated differently in the new +Series? Doubtful. Yes on the first two, and somewhat the point I'm making, without expansion modules this is what we can do (some here have commented or hoped it would be different). And yes on the Reference mode 'bi-amp feature', so I'm asking "Is the Bi-Amp option still there?" and "Is it still limited by the digital path?". I still call it a bug, because I don't think it's documented except here in various threads. I managed to use the bi-amp feature it in a way where this wasn't a problem, but although there were two amps involved, I doubt most would call it bi-amping.I wouldn't call it bi-amping. |
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ttocs
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Post by ttocs on Oct 21, 2024 15:40:16 GMT -5
Does Roon recognize your XMC-2 as an XMC-2 when you 'identify this device' in Roon? Or did you just set it up generically and name it as XMC-2? I understand you're not using dsd, but I'm wondering if Emotiva actually took the effort to get the XMC-2 into Roon's database, but didn't do it for the RMC-1/L's. That would be weird. You will see XMC-2 labels (two of them) within the attachment image I posted. I didn't name those, Roon did. I don't see "identify this device" anywhere in my Roon app like I see when I search for this phrase. I only see help for this phrase when the device is "unknown". In your attachment I can see RMC-1L shown in the lower right corner of the image. |
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ttocs
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Post by ttocs on Oct 21, 2024 15:54:25 GMT -5
The XMC-2+ and RMC-1+ have the same default channel configs as current. Please see photo of RMC-1+ back panel from Emofest. Any x.6.x without expansion modules will need to use the Left/Right Sub Outputs as Heights to get the Height channel count to 6. 2 When you ask if the bug is fixed, if you are referring to when using Reference Stereo while using the Width channels for bi-amping, this is not a bug. The Width channels are part of the digital signal path and will not function without a delay when used for bi-amping along with the Front L&R channels in any analog signal setting, but will work with digital signal paths. Will this situation be treated differently in the new +Series? Doubtful. Yes on the first two, and somewhat the point I'm making, without expansion modules this is what we can do (some here have commented or hoped it would be different). And yes on the Reference mode 'bi-amp feature', so I'm asking "Is the Bi-Amp option still there?" and "Is it still limited by the digital path?". I still call it a bug, because I don't think it's documented except here in various threads. I managed to use the bi-amp feature it in a way where this wasn't a problem, but although there were two amps involved, I doubt most would call it bi-amping. I did see Bi Amp Front in the menu system, but until an Emotivian confirms one way or another how it operates - same or different - it'll be a mystery. I don't expect a change. For there to be a possibility of being used with an analog signal path it would require a complete board redesign to put Width channels within a analog signal path (this was explained to me by Lonnie last year at AXPONA). I take a soft approach to Bi-Amp. It's all bi-amping when two amps are used for one speaker, but it's either passive or active depending on the manner being employed. |
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Post by tngiloy on Oct 21, 2024 16:00:13 GMT -5
Does Roon recognize your XMC-2 as an XMC-2 when you 'identify this device' in Roon? Or did you just set it up generically and name it as XMC-2? I understand you're not using dsd, but I'm wondering if Emotiva actually took the effort to get the XMC-2 into Roon's database, but didn't do it for the RMC-1/L's. That would be weird. You will see XMC-2 labels (two of them) within the attachment image I posted. I didn't name those, Roon did. I don't see "identify this device" anywhere in my Roon app like I see when I search for this phrase. I only see help for this phrase when the device is "unknown". In your attachment I can see RMC-1L shown in the lower right corner of the image. I named it as RMC-1L in 'zone setup'. The 'identify this device' is in device setup. When I try to identify it there, I get 'no device found', and neither Emotiva or RMC-1 get a result. With the Roon usb connection (to the MA X-SPDIF3 used as a ddc from usb to i2s) it is recognized by brand and model. When I connect directly by usb to my dac it recognized the chip, (but not the actual machine) and offered the appropriate choices for dsd. It is very possible that Roon has different setup for Apple and its own Nucleus OS. I don't see your attachment. |
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Post by aswiss on Oct 21, 2024 16:11:22 GMT -5
Does Roon recognize your XMC-2 as an XMC-2 when you 'identify this device' in Roon? Or did you just set it up generically and name it as XMC-2? I understand you're not using dsd, but I'm wondering if Emotiva actually took the effort to get the XMC-2 into Roon's database, but didn't do it for the RMC-1/L's. That would be weird. Do you mean recognition in Roon, while the PC is connected over HDMI or over the USB DAC of the RMC-1?
What I had tested back when it was new, that Multichannel DSD was only working over the oppo-203. But if I remember properly, DSD from Roon to RMC-1 was not working native.
I have a dedicated Streamer (Hifi Rose RS150) and this one plays Stereo DSD flawless with Roon. But MCH was never working. And just saying, DoP or native does not make any audible difference.
I don't have that much SACD (all ripped now) in Multichannel, so I gave up on further trying. I don't think it is working.
And Emotiva processors are not Roon tested or certified because there is no Streaming End Point built in, so the information you see is probably what HDMI will send to Roon.
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ttocs
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Post by ttocs on Oct 21, 2024 16:13:37 GMT -5
I have a feeling with the 11.1.8 expansion it's only going to increase the current layout options by 1 just due to the programing complexity. I don't think it's going to free up the 2 internal subs so someone can do 9.3.8 or 11.3.6. I think if programming was simple then the wide channels would have been optionally subs as well. The only way I see you doing 9.1.8 is if you eliminate the wides and those can't be reassigned unless something changes. My guess is the back sides and the back tops will be the same. You can maybe turn off a set but that probably takes only 2 speakers away instead of substituting 2. Using the Width channels for subs is something I mentioned to Emotiva back in 2020!! I think this is a great idea! But, as I now am scratching the surface of understanding since talking with Lonnie at Emofest, is something that requires the bass path to be directed to these two channels and to have all things SUBWOOFER applied. I can see it as being easier (easy for me to say) to have a choice of two assignments for a channel, but not a third, and since the subwoofer path isn't going to the Width channels on our current boards, alas, I don't see this happening, ever. sad |
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ttocs
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Post by ttocs on Oct 21, 2024 16:16:29 GMT -5
You will see XMC-2 labels (two of them) within the attachment image I posted. I didn't name those, Roon did. I don't see "identify this device" anywhere in my Roon app like I see when I search for this phrase. I only see help for this phrase when the device is "unknown". In your attachment I can see RMC-1L shown in the lower right corner of the image. I named it as RMC-1L in 'zone setup'. The 'identify this device' is in device setup. When I try to identify it there, I get 'no device found', and neither Emotiva or RMC-1 get a result. With the Roon usb connection (to the MA X-SPDIF3 used as a ddc from usb to i2s) it is recognized by brand and model. When I connect directly by usb to my dac it recognized the chip, (but not the actual machine) and offered the appropriate choices for dsd. It is very possible that Roon has different setup for Apple and its own Nucleus OS. I don't see your attachment. I don't see an option for me to 'identify this device'. It just doesn't show up. The attachment is on my last post, previous page. |
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Post by aswiss on Oct 21, 2024 16:25:40 GMT -5
I named it as RMC-1L in 'zone setup'. The 'identify this device' is in device setup. When I try to identify it there, I get 'no device found', and neither Emotiva or RMC-1 get a result. With the Roon usb connection (to the MA X-SPDIF3 used as a ddc from usb to i2s) it is recognized by brand and model. When I connect directly by usb to my dac it recognized the chip, (but not the actual machine) and offered the appropriate choices for dsd. It is very possible that Roon has different setup for Apple and its own Nucleus OS. I don't see your attachment. I don't see an option for me to 'identify this device'. It just doesn't show up. The attachment is on my last post, previous page. you need to open the device setup screen
In the next screen, click on the Link |
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ttocs
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Post by ttocs on Oct 21, 2024 16:29:08 GMT -5
I don't see an option for me to 'identify this device'. It just doesn't show up. The attachment is on my last post, previous page. you need to open the device setup screen
In the next screen, click on the Link Please see the attachment in my last post at bottom of Page 176. It shows what I see when in Device Settings. |
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Post by AudioHTIT on Oct 21, 2024 16:53:46 GMT -5
Yes on the first two, and somewhat the point I'm making, without expansion modules this is what we can do (some here have commented or hoped it would be different). And yes on the Reference mode 'bi-amp feature', so I'm asking "Is the Bi-Amp option still there?" and "Is it still limited by the digital path?". I still call it a bug, because I don't think it's documented except here in various threads. I managed to use the bi-amp feature it in a way where this wasn't a problem, but although there were two amps involved, I doubt most would call it bi-amping. I did see Bi Amp Front in the menu system, but until an Emotivian confirms one way or another how it operates - same or different - it'll be a mystery. I don't expect a change. For there to be a possibility of being used with an analog signal path it would require a complete board redesign to put Width channels within a analog signal path (this was explained to me by Lonnie last year at AXPONA). I take a soft approach to Bi-Amp. It's all bi-amping when two amps are used for one speaker, but it's either passive or active depending on the manner being employed. I now seem to remember another issue that was reported when using the Wides to Bi-Amp, some programming (or software) thinks that because the Wide outputs are being used, that the system has Wides, and possibly misdirects channel information. As you might remember, I was using the Wides in Bi-Amp config to drive the L/R of my HT Speaker System, which allowed me to use the actual L/R outputs for my 2C system. This config eliminated double Y cables as I actually am Vertically bi-amping the 2C Maggie system. This meant I could use Reference Stereo with 2C / Stereo, but not with HT. I thought that a reasonable compromise as I'm typically using some ummixing when listening to music with the HT, and hence it's digital anyway. |
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Post by ttocs on Oct 21, 2024 16:54:13 GMT -5
tngiloy and aswiss I see it now. I had to completely shut down Roon to see a difference, although after doing so I now see I could've just scrolled up to see it, for some reason that window was always in the position shown in my screenshot, but after shutting it down and restarting it was in a position showing the top of the popup window. And yes, it shows Unidentified Device. But it still shows XMC-2 in several other areas, lower right corner of the main window, Audio as a output choice, and in Signal Path, and I didn't rename anything. It was tough enough for me to get Exclusive Mode working over a year ago (after a uninstall and reinstall, which didn't do anything I needed BTW) and haven't touched anything since.
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Post by marcl on Oct 21, 2024 17:09:16 GMT -5
I have a feeling with the 11.1.8 expansion it's only going to increase the current layout options by 1 just due to the programing complexity. I don't think it's going to free up the 2 internal subs so someone can do 9.3.8 or 11.3.6. I think if programming was simple then the wide channels would have been optionally subs as well. The only way I see you doing 9.1.8 is if you eliminate the wides and those can't be reassigned unless something changes. My guess is the back sides and the back tops will be the same. You can maybe turn off a set but that probably takes only 2 speakers away instead of substituting 2. Using the Width channels for subs is something I mentioned to Emotiva back in 2020!! I think this is a great idea! But, as I now am scratching the surface of understanding since talking with Lonnie at Emofest, is something that requires the bass path to be directed to these two channels and to have all things SUBWOOFER applied. I can see it as being easier (easy for me to say) to have a choice of two assignments for a channel, but not a third, and since the subwoofer path isn't going to the Width channels on our current boards, alas, I don't see this happening, ever. sad Bass routing was so broken that it would require a (long promised) rewrite of code just to fix it the way it is. Sure, as long as they were doing that they could maybe allow subs to be assigned to those channels. But we haven't seen the rewrite fix yet. In the new processors - while they were doing bass routing properly - it might have been possible to think more generically about it. But I guess we'll find out when the processors hit the street because we're not getting any indication of functional requirements that specific. |
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Post by tngiloy on Oct 21, 2024 17:52:16 GMT -5
Does Roon recognize your XMC-2 as an XMC-2 when you 'identify this device' in Roon? Or did you just set it up generically and name it as XMC-2? I understand you're not using dsd, but I'm wondering if Emotiva actually took the effort to get the XMC-2 into Roon's database, but didn't do it for the RMC-1/L's. That would be weird. Do you mean recognition in Roon, while the PC is connected over HDMI or over the USB DAC of the RMC-1?
What I had tested back when it was new, that Multichannel DSD was only working over the oppo-203. But if I remember properly, DSD from Roon to RMC-1 was not working native.
I have a dedicated Streamer (Hifi Rose RS150) and this one plays Stereo DSD flawless with Roon. But MCH was never working. And just saying, DoP or native does not make any audible difference.
I don't have that much SACD (all ripped now) in Multichannel, so I gave up on further trying. I don't think it is working.
And Emotiva processors are not Roon tested or certified because there is no Streaming End Point built in, so the information you see is probably what HDMI will send to Roon.
I'm talking about DSD over hdmi from a Roon server (I use Nucleus, but computer also) doesn't work to my RMC-1L. It does work from Oppo 103. DSD into the Emotiva G3 processors' USB input was promised but was never fulfilled. USB only handles 2 channel anyway, but hdmi should handle M-CH DSD over DoP. Seems to be that Roon doesn't have Emo in its database because, as you said, they are not tested or certified. I'm not sure who's fault that is. I'm hoping that this is fxed with G4 processors, but we still don't have any processors in users' hands to test. Maybe they're in beta testers' hands, but they probably can't disclose any findings here. |
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Post by modicen on Oct 21, 2024 18:24:24 GMT -5
So with the delay again with the new upcoming gear does that mean no new software updates? I thought there was one that was coming out this past summer?
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Post by aswiss on Oct 21, 2024 18:27:47 GMT -5
Do you mean recognition in Roon, while the PC is connected over HDMI or over the USB DAC of the RMC-1?
What I had tested back when it was new, that Multichannel DSD was only working over the oppo-203. But if I remember properly, DSD from Roon to RMC-1 was not working native.
I have a dedicated Streamer (Hifi Rose RS150) and this one plays Stereo DSD flawless with Roon. But MCH was never working. And just saying, DoP or native does not make any audible difference.
I don't have that much SACD (all ripped now) in Multichannel, so I gave up on further trying. I don't think it is working.
And Emotiva processors are not Roon tested or certified because there is no Streaming End Point built in, so the information you see is probably what HDMI will send to Roon.
I'm talking about DSD over hdmi from a Roon server (I use Nucleus, but computer also) doesn't work to my RMC-1L. It does work from Oppo 103. DSD into the Emotiva G3 processors' USB input was promised but was never fulfilled. USB only handles 2 channel anyway, but hdmi should handle M-CH DSD over DoP. Seems to be that Roon doesn't have Emo in its database because, as you said, they are not tested or certified. I'm not sure who's fault that is. I'm hoping that this is fxed with G4 processors, but we still don't have any processors in users' hands to test. Maybe they're in beta testers' hands, but they probably can't disclose any findings here. I would not count on this for the G4. it's not a major issue, if it only works from Players. Theoretically, it must also work from Roon on a PC, which is configured to playback 7.1 in the Windows Settings. But I never managed it to work. I own around 60 SACD in MCH, and around 200 with Stereo only.
And as long the G4 supports DSD over HDMI from my oppo, that's fine for me. I don't use the PC to play anything diectly with Roon - all is streamed from my central Roon Server over Ethernet - the PC is just used as a Roon Remote in order to have everything on my large 77 inch TV.
I'm pretty sure, that its not related to Emotiva, its an generic issue. Cannot test it, as I don't have another AV in house.
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Post by aswiss on Oct 21, 2024 18:29:19 GMT -5
So with the delay again with the new upcoming gear does that mean no new software updates? I thought there was one that was coming out this past summer? Announced, that there might be another Software Update for the G3 - but I would not count on that. G4 is the the priority to be out by end of this year. |
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