KeithL
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Post by KeithL on Oct 29, 2024 11:59:17 GMT -5
1. While DLBC is "on the way" for the new plus processors we currently have no plans to make it retroactively available for the current models. 2. I don't know exactly how the DLBC license will be "tied to the license on the unit"... but I'm sure that won't be a problem... (The unit itself does have a unique ID which "owns" the license. ) (We'll tell you how it works when the details are finalized. ) … When support for DLBC is available on the processors... it will be a "software upgrade" that is purchased directly from Dirac... (And I have no idea how the licensing works on that.) This will be an important detail to have worked out, as the included Processor based license model Emotiva uses does not seem common, that is, most vendors require you to buy the Dirac Live license as well. If you go to purchase DLBC (now $299 for any number of subwoofers), the first thing it has you do is to ‘Find Your License’, where you scroll though all the known Dirac Live licensed models. Presumably, we will have activated our Dirac Live license, and the Emotiva models will be available to choose, but certainly a process that needs to go smoothly for a good user experience. DLBC is one of the most anticipated options undelivered from the current G3 processors, I hope delivery of this product is well under way and anticipated with or near the Plus model release. Here’s the final text before clicking ‘Buy’ Dirac Live Bass ControlFeatures: * Supports unlimited subwoofers * Corrects sound gaps and bass decline * Enhances bass crossover area for smoother reproduction * Utilizes machine learning for phase co-optimization * Bass Control is available as an expansion for users who already have a Dirac Live Room Correction license Buy now $299 I chose Marantz AV10 to get to this page: Dirac License Options |
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KeithL
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Post by KeithL on Oct 29, 2024 12:21:29 GMT -5
Absolutely... It's also worth noting that, when it comes to some tweaks, there often isn't even a clear claim about what they supposedly "correct" or "adjust". For example you will find near endless discussions about "sound stage" and "this or that piece of gear delivering a better sound stage". However, what we humans perceive as sound stage is really a combination of many different factors. And, because of that, you cannot "measure sound stage" or "measure how sound stage differs from one component to another". So there is no measurement you can provide as "proof that a certain component has a better sound stage than another". And, in fact, since multiple factors are involved, different people may hear the exact same thing, but describe or interpret it quite differently. As an example I once had a pair of rather unusual speakers that had very wide horizontal dispersion. They also had an unusual profile that tended to encourage higher frequencies to wrap over the top of the speaker and bounce off the rear wall. As a result, in a typical room, with typical content, some instruments sounded like they came from "way past the outside of the speakers". In typical parlance we might say that "they produced a very wide sound stage". They also tended to deliver the illusion of great depth in the sound field (whether it was present in the recording or not). But some people might find that to be a virtue... while others may prefer "a more focused sound stage"... And it would be extremely difficult to try to determine whether it was "accurate" or not for a given piece of content. These particular speakers tended to make everything sound that way... which strongly suggests that it was "an effect" rather than "accuracy". I always described them as "making even poor quality content sound nice but failing to highlight the quality of exceptionally good quality content". (This is obviously part of why different speakers appeal to different people.) I would also suggest that things like "being tone deaf" are more cognitive than auditory. I can hear the difference between slightly different pitches quite clearly... I just don't notice, or find it especially annoying, when they're not exactly what they should be... And, as many people have observed, there is the matter of "training"... Which often simply means being made aware of something that you hadn't noticed before... Like the funny little sound or distortion that you never noticed... but, once someone points it out to you, "you can never un-hear it". This is a common situation with DACs... because DACs can sound different in ways that analog circuitry just never does... So, once you listen for a certain thing, which you might never have listened for before, you may start to notice it... (And, yes, guys, analog things like vinyl have their own specific "flaws" and "quirks" too...) All “audiophiles” should take a hearing test to determine where their hearing deficiencies are before commenting on what can and cannot be heard from a resistor or anything else. Almost everyone is deficient at one frequency or the other. A 60 year old audiophile arguing with a 25 year old audiophile on what can be heard is crazy. No doubt, communication on a number of audio tweaks would be far more civil if they did. The absolute value of physical hearing frequency response is only one factor in a person’s ability to evaluate sound. Relevant examples of people who exhibit greater levels of hearing discrepancy are sound engineers, musicians, and conductors. Having better hearing is no guaranty of an ability to listen. People with the best hearing can still be tone deaf. Communication on a number of audio tweaks would be far more civil if people discovered or knew their limitations - limitations in more areas than just physical hearing frequency response. |
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Post by fbczar on Oct 29, 2024 13:27:31 GMT -5
All “audiophiles” should take a hearing test to determine where their hearing deficiencies are before commenting on what can and cannot be heard from a resistor or anything else. Almost everyone is deficient at one frequency or the other. A 60 year old audiophile arguing with a 25 year old audiophile on what can be heard is crazy. No doubt, communication on a number of audio tweaks would be far more civil if they did. The absolute value of physical hearing frequency response is only one factor in a person’s ability to evaluate sound. Relevant examples of people who exhibit greater levels of hearing discrepancy are sound engineers, musicians, and conductors. Having better hearing is no guaranty of an ability to listen. People with the best hearing can still be tone deaf. Communication on a number of audio tweaks would be far more civil if people discovered or knew their limitations - limitations in more areas than just physical hearing frequency response. I definitely agree with you. Listening is a skill. Proof of that can be found in those who do not yet appreciate soundstage and the like. My point was that you can only hear a frequency that your ears will allow you to hear. So when people argue over what can and cannot be heard it would be helpful to know whether something can be heard by anyone or whether it just can’t be heard by you. Almost all older folks have some hearing loss. Young people may suffer from noise induced hearing loss. Whatever, it would be good for everyone to check. Good tests are available online and, of course at your doctor. The new hearing test Apple provides for the AirPod Pro 2 is a good way to check as well. |
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Post by lowellg on Oct 29, 2024 13:50:19 GMT -5
I gave up. Since the Emotiva event there had been limited details about the upgrade path. Which based on history gives me room to pause. So I bailed and my AVM 90 will be in this week. I am not going bag on my XMC-2, it was a very good upgrade from my Denon 4400 I was using as a pre-amp. The XMC-2 sounded great and took my sound to the next level, but I have also heard great things about the Anthem and got to good of deal to turn down. Anybody know what a good suggest selling price would be? I am thinking $1000 maybe $1200. Also, does anybody know how I describe to a potential buyer how the DIRAC license transfer works? I read in this forum it's tied to the Processor MAC address. Thanks, Does your XMC2 have the eARC board? The AVM90 is a quite an upgrade from an Emotiva prepro. I’m interested in the sound quality difference. Yes, it has the HDMI 2.0b board and the upgraded power supply. |
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Post by lowellg on Oct 29, 2024 13:50:59 GMT -5
The Dirac Live license on our current XMC-2, RMC-1, and RMC-1L processors is associated with the MAC address of the processor. (This is the "hardware identifier" of the Ethernet network card... so acts much like a hardware serial number.) In other words, the processor has a Dirac Live license, rather than the user. And, when you run the software, it verifies that the processor it is connecting to has a valid license. So, if you sell the processor, the license "goes with it" (with no action on your part). This is NOT the case with our older XMC-1 . And I don't know the exact details of how it will work with the new "plus processors"., ........................... Also, does anybody know how I describe to a potential buyer how the DIRAC license transfer works? I read in this forum it's tied to the Processor MAC address. Thanks, Thank you for the info on the license. |
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hemster
Global Moderator
Particle Manufacturer
...still listening... still watching
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Post by hemster on Oct 29, 2024 15:29:33 GMT -5
The absolute value of physical hearing frequency response is only one factor in a person’s ability to evaluate sound. Relevant examples of people who exhibit greater levels of hearing discrepancy are sound engineers, musicians, and conductors. Having better hearing is no guaranty of an ability to listen. People with the best hearing can still be tone deaf. Communication on a number of audio tweaks would be far more civil if people discovered or knew their limitations - limitations in more areas than just physical hearing frequency response. I definitely agree with you. Listening is a skill. Proof of that can be found in those who do not yet appreciate soundstage and the like. My point was that you can only hear a frequency that your ears will allow you to hear. So when people argue over what can and cannot be heard it would be helpful to know whether something can be heard by anyone or whether it just can’t be heard by you. Almost all older folks have some hearing loss. Young people may suffer from noise induced hearing loss. Whatever, it would be good for everyone to check. Good tests are available online and, of course at your doctor. The new hearing test Apple provides for the AirPod Pro 2 is a good way to check as well. I agree that hearing acuity is different for different people. I've been through my fare share of loud concerts in my younger days and know my hearing has suffered as a result. Last year I happened to come across a community health fair where an audiologist was offering hearing tests. Well, unexpectedly mibne came out.. let's just suboptimal. She recommended an ear lavage (French for ear cleaning!) which I gladly accepted. After that I had her perform the same hearing test and I did much better! It's not about being hygenic and keeping your ears clean. There is earwax in everyone's ears but a good purge once in a while does wonders!  |
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Post by aswiss on Oct 29, 2024 18:35:47 GMT -5
I have suffered from tinnitus for 20 years, and on top of that I suffered a tear in my left eardrum while serving in the military.
My brain was able to compensate for the difference, but the measurement showed a difference of almost 20% between left and right. Hearing deteriorates with age, and an age scale is defined for this. According to the ear doctor, my healthy ear is at 120% and my damaged ear is at 100% in relation to age. Due to the damaged eardrum, I can no longer hear certain frequencies.
Don't ask which ones exactly, but I can no longer hear cicadas on my left, which is not necessarily a disadvantage at night.
Yes, you can train your hearing and improve it over the years. I can even center my ears today without any aids, and that's saying something at my age.
Unfortunately, there is no cure for tinnitus, and you just learn to live with it over the years. With good days and bad.
In relation to the sound of the RMC-1 and my Soulution Audio, there is still a lot of room for improvement.
But apart from MCH SA-CD, the processor is only used for film playback, and there I am happy with the sound and just hope that the RMC-1+ can maintain this level.
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Post by AudioHTIT on Oct 29, 2024 20:33:36 GMT -5
… The new hearing test Apple provides for the AirPod Pro 2 is a good way to check as well. Just happened to have taken one today, while it says I’m ok, it judges by your mid-range ability to hear conversation. It did confirm what I’ve know, that I have a high end roll off in my right ear. Typical hearing tests just go to 8K, I’m hoping the place I’m going for my next test can do up to 12K, haven’t found anyone going above that around here. |
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Post by fbczar on Oct 29, 2024 23:06:24 GMT -5
… The new hearing test Apple provides for the AirPod Pro 2 is a good way to check as well. Just happened to have taken one today, while it says I’m ok, it judges by your mid-range ability to hear conversation. It did confirm what I’ve know, that I have a high end roll off in my right ear. Typical hearing tests just go to 8K, I’m hoping the place I’m going for my next test can do up to 12K, haven’t found anyone going above that around here. Unfortunately you’re going to have difficulty finding a test that goes beyond 8Khz because almost all hearing aids do not go above 8Khz. I think Widex makes hearing aids that go higher than 10Khz, but I don’t know of any others. Widex hearing aids are designed with listening to live music in mind. They have much faster processing capability than any other hearing aid I know of. One nice feature of the new Apple hearing aid feature for the AirPod Pro 2 is the ability to scan an audiogram and download it so if you can get a 12Khz test. It will be interesting to see how the AirPods handle it. Just be sure to get a paper copy or computer file of the audiogram. There may be online tests, Widex definitely has one on their web site, that go above 8Khz. |
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Post by AudioHTIT on Oct 29, 2024 23:53:20 GMT -5
Just happened to have taken one today, while it says I’m ok, it judges by your mid-range ability to hear conversation. It did confirm what I’ve know, that I have a high end roll off in my right ear. Typical hearing tests just go to 8K, I’m hoping the place I’m going for my next test can do up to 12K, haven’t found anyone going above that around here. Unfortunately you’re going to have difficulty finding a test that goes beyond 8Khz because almost all hearing aids do not go above 8Khz. I think Widex makes hearing aids that go higher than 10Khz, but I don’t know of any others. Widex hearing aids are designed with listening to live music in mind. They have much faster processing capability than any other hearing aid I know of. One nice feature of the new Apple hearing aid feature for the AirPod Pro 2 is the ability to scan an audiogram and download it so if you can get a 12Khz test. It will be interesting to see how the AirPods handle it. Just be sure to get a paper copy or computer file of the audiogram. There may be online tests, Widex definitely has one on their web site, that go above 8Khz. I need to call the office and ask, the ENT I saw recently thinks this particular doctor can do a 12K test, otherwise I probably won’t bother, and just go to Costco. Besides todays AirPods test, I did have one test done a couple years ago, before they molded my ear to make AirPod Pros IEM inserts, that’s where I learned of the right ear drop. Though we should move this conversation over to the thread ttocs resurrected. the Hearing Loss Thead |
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Post by audiosyndrome on Oct 30, 2024 8:53:43 GMT -5
[ Though we should move this conversation over to the thread ttocs resurrected.
[href="https://emotivalounge.proboards.com/post/1117537/thread"]the Hearing Loss Thead[/a][/quote]
Excellent idea.
Russ
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NicS
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Will the G4 upgrade help quell my RMC1-L frustrations...?
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Post by NicS on Oct 31, 2024 15:33:05 GMT -5
Can somebody explain what "Music Steaming Capable" means in the context of upgrading to the G4? Does it mean that an additional board will become available in the future? Does it mean that it's a matter of a firmware upragde for access? Maybe I missed something in this thread that dealt with it....
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Post by AudioHTIT on Oct 31, 2024 21:17:25 GMT -5
Can somebody explain what "Music Steaming Capable" means in the context of upgrading to the G4? Does it mean that an additional board will become available in the future? Does it mean that it's a matter of a firmware upragde for access? Maybe I missed something in this thread that dealt with it.... That question went unanswered at Emofest, except one comment that it might require an expansion board in the RMC-1+, which would seem to imply the XMC-2+ is out of luck. Though some thought it would be handled by the RPi4, but really, without an official announcement, we don’t know. |
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NicS
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Will the G4 upgrade help quell my RMC1-L frustrations...?
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Post by NicS on Oct 31, 2024 21:44:24 GMT -5
Can somebody explain what "Music Steaming Capable" means in the context of upgrading to the G4? Does it mean that an additional board will become available in the future? Does it mean that it's a matter of a firmware upragde for access? Maybe I missed something in this thread that dealt with it.... That question went unanswered at Emofest, except one comment that it might require an expansion board in the RMC-1+, which would seem to imply the XMC-2+ is out of luck. Though some thought it would be handled by the RPi4, but really, without an official announcement, we don’t know. So, yet another misdirection. Because the literature implies the steaming applied to both the RMC & XMC. Or are my comprehension skills on the blink? Considering the board that is responsible for steaming functionality, is tiny, there shouldn’t be an excuse for not offering what is now considered basic functionality in an AVP. I must admit, I can feel a cloud of disappointment roll over me. |
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Post by AudioHTIT on Oct 31, 2024 22:22:45 GMT -5
That question went unanswered at Emofest, except one comment that it might require an expansion board in the RMC-1+, which would seem to imply the XMC-2+ is out of luck. Though some thought it would be handled by the RPi4, but really, without an official announcement, we don’t know. So, yet another misdirection. Because the literature implies the steaming applied to both the RMC & XMC. Or are my comprehension skills on the blink? Considering the board that is responsible for steaming functionality, is tiny, there shouldn’t be an excuse for not offering what is now considered basic functionality in an AVP. I must admit, I can feel a cloud of disappointment roll over me. I won’t use it because it won’t support Apple Music (nothing does … well Android got it this year), I’m fine running it on TV or Mac, but I’d like to hear and document what this bullet means. |
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NicS
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Will the G4 upgrade help quell my RMC1-L frustrations...?
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Post by NicS on Nov 1, 2024 10:33:45 GMT -5
So, there we have it. Direct from the fine people at Emotiva themselves: there is no on-board streaming capability in either the XMC-2+ or the RMC-1+. Unless of course the streamer is offered as an RMC-1+ expansion module. The claim "Music Steaming Capable", appears to mean that a streamer can be plugged in via the rear USB port. Ahhhhhh. OK. A little misleading, I think.
I'll be sticking to my outboard streamer solution I suppose.... or is this just a ruse to get us to buy the new Emotiva streaming box? Let's see, when the upgrade becomes available in Q2 of 2025.
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Post by AudioHTIT on Nov 1, 2024 10:45:38 GMT -5
So, there we have it. Direct from the fine people at Emotiva themselves: there is no on-board streaming capability in either the XMC-2+ or the RMC-1+. Unless of course the streamer is offered as an RMC-1+ expansion module. The claim "Music Steaming Capable", appears to mean that a streamer can be plugged in via the rear USB port. Ahhhhhh. OK. A little misleading, I think. I'll be sticking to my outboard streamer solution I suppose.... or is this just a ruse to get us to buy the new Emotiva streaming box? Let's see, when the upgrade becomes available in Q2 of 2025. Did you call them? Who at Emotiva said this, or what are you referencing? (my comments came from various posts and notes, not an announcement) |
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NicS
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Will the G4 upgrade help quell my RMC1-L frustrations...?
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Post by NicS on Nov 1, 2024 10:47:13 GMT -5
So, there we have it. Direct from the fine people at Emotiva themselves: there is no on-board streaming capability in either the XMC-2+ or the RMC-1+. Unless of course the streamer is offered as an RMC-1+ expansion module. The claim "Music Steaming Capable", appears to mean that a streamer can be plugged in via the rear USB port. Ahhhhhh. OK. A little misleading, I think. I'll be sticking to my outboard streamer solution I suppose.... or is this just a ruse to get us to buy the new Emotiva streaming box? Let's see, when the upgrade becomes available in Q2 of 2025. Did you call them? Who at Emotiva said this, or what are you referencing? (my comments came from various posts and notes, not an announcement) I got an email from Mike in sales at Emotiva this morning. |
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KeithL
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Post by KeithL on Nov 1, 2024 15:13:19 GMT -5
A bit of CLARIFICATION.... about the streaming options on the new XMC-2+ and RMC-1+.
I'm seeing a lot of comments about this... both based on what was said at Emofest... and since then.
And, to be quite honest, depending on who you ask, you may get slightly different answers...
For example engineering can talk about things that are "still on the drawing board" and that "we're working on"...
Whereas the guys in sales are more limited to discussing current and definite future products...
THE FOLLOWING IS THE LATEST INFORMATION ABOUT THIS SUBJECT ON OUR CURRENT ROADMAP.
In case anyone was wondering; at this point all of this refers to an audio-only streamer. We currently have no plans for a video streamer. The FIRST steaming option that we're going to be offering is our separate streamer product... the DRS-1. This is the streamer that we previewed at EmoFest. It runs on custom hardware, developed by Emotiva and Volumio, and runs Volumio software. The streamer is well into the production cycle and will definitely be available shortly. (And, yes, the DRS-1 has both analog and digital outputs, and will work with any processor or preamp.) The SECOND option will be a streamer expansion module for the RMC-1+. This will probably be a bit further out... but is definitely on the way as well. It will probably offer much the same feature options as the DRS-1... but the hardware will live in one of the RMC-1+ expansion slots. (And, since the XMC-2+ doesn't have any expansion slots, this will only be an option for the RMC-1+.) And, finally, we are looking into the possibility of running the streaming capability on the processor's internal engine. If this turns out to be practical then it may eventually become an option for both the XMC-2+ and / or the RMC-1+. At this point this is quite literally no more and no less than something that we are considering. We are still actively considering it, and hoping that it may turn out to be possible, but we really don't know if it's going to turn out to be practical or not... (But, at this point, there's no point in asking us to say much more about it, because there are still too many unknowns...  ) Did you call them? Who at Emotiva said this, or what are you referencing? (my comments came from various posts and notes, not an announcement) I got an email from Mike in sales at Emotiva this morning.
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NicS
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Will the G4 upgrade help quell my RMC1-L frustrations...?
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Post by NicS on Nov 1, 2024 15:35:28 GMT -5
A bit of CLARIFICATION.... about the streaming options on the new XMC-2+ and RMC-1+.
I'm seeing a lot of comments about this... both based on what was said at Emofest... and since then.
And, to be quite honest, depending on who you ask, you may get slightly different answers...
For example engineering can talk about things that are "still on the drawing board" and that "we're working on"...
Whereas the guys in sales are more limited to discussing current and definite future products...
THE FOLLOWING IS THE LATEST INFORMATION ABOUT THIS SUBJECT ON OUR CURRENT ROADMAP.
In case anyone was wondering; at this point all of this refers to an audio-only streamer. We currently have no plans for a video streamer. The FIRST steaming option that we're going to be offering is our separate streamer product... the DRS-1. This is the streamer that we previewed at EmoFest. It runs on custom hardware, developed by Emotiva and Volumio, and runs Volumio software. The streamer is well into the production cycle and will definitely be available shortly. (And, yes, the DRS-1 has both analog and digital outputs, and will work with any processor or preamp.) The SECOND option will be a streamer expansion module for the RMC-1+. This will probably be a bit further out... but is definitely on the way as well. It will probably offer much the same feature options as the DRS-1... but the hardware will live in one of the RMC-1+ expansion slots. (And, since the XMC-2+ doesn't have any expansion slots, this will only be an option for the RMC-1+.) And, finally, we are looking into the possibility of running the streaming capability on the processor's internal engine. If this turns out to be practical then it may eventually become an option for both the XMC-2+ and / or the RMC-1+. At this point this is quite literally no more and no less than something that we are considering. We are still actively considering it, and hoping that it may turn out to be possible, but we really don't know if it's going to turn out to be practical or not... (But, at this point, there's no point in asking us to say much more about it, because there are still too many unknowns... ) I got an email from Mike in sales at Emotiva this morning. Thanks for the comprehensive clarification Keith. As always, a fount of information. Just to clarify... no support for Roon is planned in any of the streaming options? And will the USB input accept DSD Audio, as I can see that this is natively supported on the Burr Brown PCM1795 DAC chip? |
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