cawgijoe
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"When you come to a fork in the road, take it." - Yogi Berra
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Post by cawgijoe on Feb 9, 2024 8:00:09 GMT -5
So...I know DLBC can be used even if you only have one sub...I don't have any plans to get another sub...is DLBC worth buying for just one sub?
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Post by doc1963 on Feb 9, 2024 8:20:22 GMT -5
So...I know DLBC can be used even if you only have one sub...I don't have any plans to get another sub...is DLBC worth buying for just one sub? From what I've read about DLBC in other forums, yes, even if you only have one subwoofer. If you add one or more additional subwoofers down the road, you can always upgrade your license from "single sub" to "multi sub".
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Post by PaulBe on Feb 9, 2024 8:41:14 GMT -5
I could have been Gallagher/Carlin in another life... I was serious. I hope you who are laughing have the last laugh. I don't want to be right on this one. No, not FUNNY, funny! Okay let's back up. Not withstanding the fact that you're not interested in anything Dirac, what is your point regarding me relaying this message from Keith? Is it about the fact that he told me I could share what he told me about DLBC ... instead of posting himself? Or is it that you don't believe Emotiva will deliver DLBC? What is your point? And BTW ... I think we have a unique opportunity to have the interaction we have with the folks at Emotiva. It's a mature relationship where we have some dialogue and express our wishes about product features and get some answers to questions; and they get feedback - and at times beta testing - and the benefit that we represent a network of informed users who can help guide potential new customers. Along with all of this ... we implicitly cut each other some slack ... My point is you are acting as an unofficial spokesman. It is an inappropriate and immature business way to handle company pronouncements. I think it can have business and personal consequences we least expect or want. My 'limited' interest in Dirac is a dead horse that a few of you keep beating. It's not part of this equation. It's YOU who are saying I'm "not interested in anything Dirac". Where is the slack I should get for having an opinion that is different than yours? Is this a cult? I do appreciate the folksy dialogue with Emotive.
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Post by lrobertson on Feb 9, 2024 8:45:14 GMT -5
The link zdoggz provided assumes ART to be the best subwoofer eq program over even dlbc multi sub which tracks with everything else I've heard. If I have to buy expansion slots for my subs I sure hope they at least eventually provide ART. I wonder if there is a similar upgrade path to ART like the ability to upgrade dlbc single to multi sub. Would keeping a minidsp in line for solely BEQ to the subs screw up anything or is it all good as long as the frequencies boosted stick to the subwoofers only. My towers go down to 28hz so I imagine I have to make sure I high pass them higher for art or dlbc if I plan on using minidsp for BEQ. Would probably be a lot simpler if Emotiva's web ui was able to include BEQ like monoprice. I do like the idea of utilizing someone's tedious work in applying an elaborate array of peq filters for bass over a generic broad bass knob adjustment.
I am also maybe naively assuming Emotiva is going to nail down the 11.1.8 expansion considering they advertised the RMC as capable of that years ago.
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Post by marcl on Feb 9, 2024 8:55:30 GMT -5
No, not FUNNY, funny! Okay let's back up. Not withstanding the fact that you're not interested in anything Dirac, what is your point regarding me relaying this message from Keith? Is it about the fact that he told me I could share what he told me about DLBC ... instead of posting himself? Or is it that you don't believe Emotiva will deliver DLBC? What is your point? And BTW ... I think we have a unique opportunity to have the interaction we have with the folks at Emotiva. It's a mature relationship where we have some dialogue and express our wishes about product features and get some answers to questions; and they get feedback - and at times beta testing - and the benefit that we represent a network of informed users who can help guide potential new customers. Along with all of this ... we implicitly cut each other some slack ... My point is you are acting as an unofficial spokesman. It is an inappropriate and immature business way to handle company pronouncements. I think it can have business and personal consequences we least expect or want. I do appreciate the folksy dialogue with Emotive. Definitely no consequences for me personally. And a privately held company can do business as they wish (within the law), so they can pass along information any way they choose. Magnepan - for example - did this for a long time with someone in a particular forum acting as a go-between because Wendell didn't want to participate in forums or social media. And there's currently a dealer who shares information regularly. Tranquilo!
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Post by PaulBe on Feb 9, 2024 8:57:35 GMT -5
My point is you are acting as an unofficial spokesman. It is an inappropriate and immature business way to handle company pronouncements. I think it can have business and personal consequences we least expect or want. I do appreciate the folksy dialogue with Emotive. Definitely no consequences for me personally. And a privately held company can do business as they wish (within the law), so they can pass along information any way they choose. Magnepan - for example - did this for a long time with someone in a particular forum acting as a go-between because Wendell didn't want to participate in forums or social media. And there's currently a dealer who shares information regularly. Tranquilo! I edited my post with some additional words.
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Post by marcl on Feb 9, 2024 9:01:00 GMT -5
So...I know DLBC can be used even if you only have one sub...I don't have any plans to get another sub...is DLBC worth buying for just one sub? You would have to read some forums and see what people say regarding whether it's worth it. But I can see how it would be very valuable even with one sub because of the additional phase correction that DLBC does - beyond what Dirac Live alone does - to align pairs of speakers to each other and then align the sub to them. Once again ... other methods of dealing with subs do not do phase alignment, and certainly nothing to integrate the other speakers better.
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cawgijoe
Emo VIPs
"When you come to a fork in the road, take it." - Yogi Berra
Posts: 4,927
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Post by cawgijoe on Feb 9, 2024 9:08:40 GMT -5
So...I know DLBC can be used even if you only have one sub...I don't have any plans to get another sub...is DLBC worth buying for just one sub? You would have to read some forums and see what people say regarding whether it's worth it. But I can see how it would be very valuable even with one sub because of the additional phase correction that DLBC does - beyond what Dirac Live alone does - to align pairs of speakers to each other and then align the sub to them. Once again ... other methods of dealing with subs do not do phase alignment, and certainly nothing to integrate the other speakers better. Thanks marcl...I will most likely get it, if available when we go the next processors. it's only money, right? I'll do some research in the meantime.
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Post by foggy1956 on Feb 9, 2024 9:16:14 GMT -5
No, not FUNNY, funny! Okay let's back up. Not withstanding the fact that you're not interested in anything Dirac, what is your point regarding me relaying this message from Keith? Is it about the fact that he told me I could share what he told me about DLBC ... instead of posting himself? Or is it that you don't believe Emotiva will deliver DLBC? What is your point? And BTW ... I think we have a unique opportunity to have the interaction we have with the folks at Emotiva. It's a mature relationship where we have some dialogue and express our wishes about product features and get some answers to questions; and they get feedback - and at times beta testing - and the benefit that we represent a network of informed users who can help guide potential new customers. Along with all of this ... we implicitly cut each other some slack ... My point is you are acting as an unofficial spokesman. It is an inappropriate and immature business way to handle company pronouncements. I think it can have business and personal consequences we least expect or want. My 'limited' interest in Dirac is a dead horse that a few of you keep beating. It's not part of this equation. It's YOU who are saying I'm "not interested in anything Dirac". Where is the slack I should get for having an opinion that is different than yours? Is this a cult? I do appreciate the folksy dialogue with Emotive. Perhaps he's not the one beating a dead horse, you don't like Dirac, we get it
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Post by doc1963 on Feb 9, 2024 9:22:46 GMT -5
You would have to read some forums and see what people say regarding whether it's worth it. But I can see how it would be very valuable even with one sub because of the additional phase correction that DLBC does - beyond what Dirac Live alone does - to align pairs of speakers to each other and then align the sub to them. Once again ... other methods of dealing with subs do not do phase alignment, and certainly nothing to integrate the other speakers better. Thanks marcl...I will most likely get it, if available when we go the next processors. it's only money, right? I'll do some research in the meantime. You might try sending a PM to our forum member "wilburthegoose" to get his opinion. He used to be very active here (and still does post from time to time), but has moved on from his Emotiva XMC-2 processor to a Monolith HTP-1. He's pretty active in the HTP-1 owners thread over on the AVS Forum and I know (for sure) he has DLBC and only one subwoofer. Send him a PM... I'm sure he'd gladly share his thoughts.
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Post by marcl on Feb 9, 2024 9:25:54 GMT -5
You would have to read some forums and see what people say regarding whether it's worth it. But I can see how it would be very valuable even with one sub because of the additional phase correction that DLBC does - beyond what Dirac Live alone does - to align pairs of speakers to each other and then align the sub to them. Once again ... other methods of dealing with subs do not do phase alignment, and certainly nothing to integrate the other speakers better. Thanks marcl...I will most likely get it, if available when we go the next processors. it's only money, right? I'll do some research in the meantime. So my plan .... Well right now I have two Outlaw subs - 12" center front and 10" center rear - integrated with a miniDSP. My plan over the next few months is to assemble two open baffle dipole subs with parts from GR Research. Three 12" drivers each, with the Rhythmik servo amp. I'll probably start by sidelining the Outlaw subs and integrate the OB Dipoles exactly the same way ... but place them at my known minimum resonance points in the front of the room inboard of my Magnepan 3.7s. Once I see what they can do below 30Hz - and hopefully below 20Hz a bit - I'll decide whether or not to keep the 12" Outlaw sub to support the very bottom end. If DLBC becomes available, it will by far be my main reason to upgrade to a XMC-2+. I would get the multisub DLBC license and go from there. I also have another decision to make and that will depend somewhat on the performance of the OB Dipoles. I currently have the subs playing LFE only for multichannel video. I use my large fronts with the subs separately integrated with them to play below 50Hz only. All bass management in the room goes to the large fronts, and the subs play only the bottom 50Hz of that. But with the new subs and possibly DLBC, I may go to a conventional approach of sending all the bass management to the subs. DLBC will be a factor for sure, and may end up influencing or changing that decision.
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cawgijoe
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"When you come to a fork in the road, take it." - Yogi Berra
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Post by cawgijoe on Feb 9, 2024 9:38:23 GMT -5
Thanks marcl...I will most likely get it, if available when we go the next processors. it's only money, right? I'll do some research in the meantime. You might try sending a PM to our forum member "wilburthegoose" to get his opinion. He used to be very active here (and still does post from time to time), but has moved on from his Emotiva XMC-2 processor to a Monolith HTP-1. He's pretty active in the HTP-1 owners thread over on the AVS Forum and I know (for sure) he has DLBC and only one subwoofer. Send him a PM... I'm sure he'd gladly share his thoughts. Thanks! Will do.
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cawgijoe
Emo VIPs
"When you come to a fork in the road, take it." - Yogi Berra
Posts: 4,927
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Post by cawgijoe on Feb 9, 2024 9:55:07 GMT -5
Alright...this may or may not be the correct thread to ask on, but here goes...I'm planning on Atmos in a brand new home hopefully by year's end or slightly thereafter if plans go accordingly.
I have an Emotiva XPA-5 Gen 3 amp. I had planned to send it in and add two stereo modules for the 4 Emotiva Vaulta speakers I bought awhile back.
However, I also have two (2) Emotiva BASX Flex amps...the older versions laying around. Besides saving $500 to add amps internally to the XPA-5, what would be the pluses/minuses to go in the additional amps direction?
I know I would have to purchase XLR to RCA converter cables....
Thanks!
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Post by PaulBe on Feb 9, 2024 10:08:27 GMT -5
My point is you are acting as an unofficial spokesman. It is an inappropriate and immature business way to handle company pronouncements. I think it can have business and personal consequences we least expect or want. My 'limited' interest in Dirac is a dead horse that a few of you keep beating. It's not part of this equation. It's YOU who are saying I'm "not interested in anything Dirac". Where is the slack I should get for having an opinion that is different than yours? Is this a cult? I do appreciate the folksy dialogue with Emotive. Perhaps he's not the one beating a dead horse, you don't like Dirac, we get it No Sir. Again, it's you and a few other cultists who don't get it. You don't read what I write. You attack like a 'Lord of the Flies' gang of children. I started this thread concerned about what I think is an inappropriate way to handle company communication. My post had nothing to do with Dirac. I didn't mention Dirac. marcl turned it into a dead horse strawman about Dirac. You followed up with a statement about the strawman. Good grief. I have said, concerning Dirac: *I want Dirac to be a paid option. *I may try it when the processor and Dirac are less flawed and fiddly, using it up to about 4x the Schroeder Frequency of my room - This will require a G4P that actually works all the time. My G3P is too buggy, and the current Dirac Live is too fiddly. *I Don't Like the Dirac ART system - The Trinnov WF system makes more sense to me, and I can implement most of what Trinnov is trying to do without having to buy a Trinnov. * Dirac is Not the only way to manipulate array phase and line up impulse response. *I Don't Like the results of large EQ sound manipulations * I Don't Care what system you use. It's your money. This is a hobby. I spent the last three years accumulating parts and designing and building (fiddling with) my own designed 7 channel monitor speaker system - think something similar to a JBL M2. All 7 base channels are the same bi-amped speakers with 15" woofers and large format compression driver tweeters and horns, use DSP crossovers, separate 2 channel amps for each speaker, and have great controlled directivity. The horn heads are a separate module - it's tough to move 200lbs. of speaker in one package. I have little need for room correction software, and use a limited amount of passive room treatment. I wouldn't recommend my system to anyone, though you could buy 7 JBL DSP controlled and powered M2's and call it a day. It would be close enough but Much more costly. This is not a DIY speaker forum so I will say no more on the subject. It's just a little background to say I have my own interests and desires in fiddling with this hobby. I don't attack people who like to fiddle in different ways - like with Dirac. I do have strong, experienced, and educated opinions about what works and what doesn't work. I am still a student of psycho-acoustics. I don't care what system You use. I don't care if you use Dirac. It's Your money. This is a hobby. Perhaps you could stop caring that I don't use Dirac.
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KeithL
Administrator
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Post by KeithL on Feb 9, 2024 10:11:26 GMT -5
Hi everyone... This has all been very exciting... but now everyone needs to calm down... This is NOT some big news or some big new announcement. It's just a status update. We have always planned to have DLBC enabled in the new processors as soon as we could. And we have always expected (or hoped) that it would be ready by release date. But it hasn't been definite (and, until the code is finalized, and we actually test it, it still won't be definite). However, that part of things is progressing nicely, so it looks like it's really going to happen as planned. Once we get closer to release time, and the code is finished and tested, I'm sure there will be an official announcement. Marcl asked me what the current situation was... I gave him the latest information I have... He asked if he could share what I told him... And I told him he was welcome to do so... I also understand that some folks on this forum consider DLBC to be important. For us, Dirac Live is "an important feature", and DLBC is "a cost-extra optional upgrade for an important feature"... We see Dirac Live as "something you can do with our processor"; we do not see our processor as "a way to get Dirac Live" or "a way to get DLBC". I'm also going to add a bit of an editorial comment here... " Complaining when people share information is not a great way to encourage people to share information." We HAVE tried being "more transparent" and proving more detailed information more often. But, to be quite honest, the main result when we do so is usually hearing endless complaints when "forward looking predictions aren't met". That's one reason why you aren't going to start getting daily play-by-play news every time a line of code is finished. And, when something big happens, like we actually release something cool, you'll get an announcement about it. No, not FUNNY, funny! Okay let's back up. Not withstanding the fact that you're not interested in anything Dirac, what is your point regarding me relaying this message from Keith? Is it about the fact that he told me I could share what he told me about DLBC ... instead of posting himself? Or is it that you don't believe Emotiva will deliver DLBC? What is your point? And BTW ... I think we have a unique opportunity to have the interaction we have with the folks at Emotiva. It's a mature relationship where we have some dialogue and express our wishes about product features and get some answers to questions; and they get feedback - and at times beta testing - and the benefit that we represent a network of informed users who can help guide potential new customers. Along with all of this ... we implicitly cut each other some slack ... My point is you are acting as an unofficial spokesman. It is an inappropriate and immature business way to handle company pronouncements. I think it can have business and personal consequences we least expect or want. My 'limited' interest in Dirac is a dead horse that a few of you keep beating. It's not part of this equation. It's YOU who are saying I'm "not interested in anything Dirac". Where is the slack I should get for having an opinion that is different than yours? Is this a cult? I do appreciate the folksy dialogue with Emotive.
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geebo
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"Too bad that all the people who know how to run the country are driving taxicabs and cutting hair"
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Post by geebo on Feb 9, 2024 10:15:25 GMT -5
No, not FUNNY, funny! Okay let's back up. Not withstanding the fact that you're not interested in anything Dirac, what is your point regarding me relaying this message from Keith? Is it about the fact that he told me I could share what he told me about DLBC ... instead of posting himself? Or is it that you don't believe Emotiva will deliver DLBC? What is your point? And BTW ... I think we have a unique opportunity to have the interaction we have with the folks at Emotiva. It's a mature relationship where we have some dialogue and express our wishes about product features and get some answers to questions; and they get feedback - and at times beta testing - and the benefit that we represent a network of informed users who can help guide potential new customers. Along with all of this ... we implicitly cut each other some slack ... My point is you are acting as an unofficial spokesman. It is an inappropriate and immature business way to handle company pronouncements. I think it can have business and personal consequences we least expect or want. Relaying a message does not a company spokesperson make. Is everyone that comes back from Axpona and tells us something they heard from an Emotiva representative acting as an official company spokesperson? Of course not.
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Post by jagman on Feb 9, 2024 10:22:49 GMT -5
The link zdoggz provided assumes ART to be the best subwoofer eq program over even dlbc multi sub which tracks with everything else I've heard. If I have to buy expansion slots for my subs I sure hope they at least eventually provide ART. I wonder if there is a similar upgrade path to ART like the ability to upgrade dlbc single to multi sub. Would keeping a minidsp in line for solely BEQ to the subs screw up anything or is it all good as long as the frequencies boosted stick to the subwoofers only. My towers go down to 28hz so I imagine I have to make sure I high pass them higher for art or dlbc if I plan on using minidsp for BEQ. Would probably be a lot simpler if Emotiva's web ui was able to include BEQ like monoprice. I do like the idea of utilizing someone's tedious work in applying an elaborate array of peq filters for bass over a generic broad bass knob adjustment. I am also maybe naively assuming Emotiva is going to nail down the 11.1.8 expansion considering they advertised the RMC as capable of that years ago. Yes yes yes! This ☝️. I have the same questions. I have 4 subs that at I apply BEQ to, but my MiniDSO is a 4x2HD. If BEQ can be applied natively to any sub channels (like In the MonoPrice pre/pro) AND Dirac/DLBC can also be used simultaneously, then it should work out well. If not, I'll have to get a second MiniDSP since DLBC will need independent control of each of the four sub channels.
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Post by PaulBe on Feb 9, 2024 10:36:01 GMT -5
Thanks marcl...I will most likely get it, if available when we go the next processors. it's only money, right? I'll do some research in the meantime. So my plan .... Well right now I have two Outlaw subs - 12" center front and 10" center rear - integrated with a miniDSP. My plan over the next few months is to assemble two open baffle dipole subs with parts from GR Research. Three 12" drivers each, with the Rhythmik servo amp. I'll probably start by sidelining the Outlaw subs and integrate the OB Dipoles exactly the same way ... but place them at my known minimum resonance points in the front of the room inboard of my Magnepan 3.7s. Once I see what they can do below 30Hz - and hopefully below 20Hz a bit - I'll decide whether or not to keep the 12" Outlaw sub to support the very bottom end. If DLBC becomes available, it will by far be my main reason to upgrade to a XMC-2+. I would get the multisub DLBC license and go from there. I also have another decision to make and that will depend somewhat on the performance of the OB Dipoles. I currently have the subs playing LFE only for multichannel video. I use my large fronts with the subs separately integrated with them to play below 50Hz only. All bass management in the room goes to the large fronts, and the subs play only the bottom 50Hz of that. But with the new subs and possibly DLBC, I may go to a conventional approach of sending all the bass management to the subs. DLBC will be a factor for sure, and may end up influencing or changing that decision. I have 2 of the Outlaw LFM-1 Subs. Unused right now but intended for rear use ala DBA or Trinnov style WF. The Subs are good. The internal amps are bad. I found the Subs to be much better at the very bottom end with resistance stuffed ports.
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Post by ttocs on Feb 9, 2024 12:12:27 GMT -5
The link zdoggz provided assumes ART to be the best subwoofer eq program over even dlbc multi sub which tracks with everything else I've heard. If I have to buy expansion slots for my subs I sure hope they at least eventually provide ART. I wonder if there is a similar upgrade path to ART like the ability to upgrade dlbc single to multi sub. Would keeping a minidsp in line for solely BEQ to the subs screw up anything or is it all good as long as the frequencies boosted stick to the subwoofers only. My towers go down to 28hz so I imagine I have to make sure I high pass them higher for art or dlbc if I plan on using minidsp for BEQ. Would probably be a lot simpler if Emotiva's web ui was able to include BEQ like monoprice. I do like the idea of utilizing someone's tedious work in applying an elaborate array of peq filters for bass over a generic broad bass knob adjustment. I am also maybe naively assuming Emotiva is going to nail down the 11.1.8 expansion considering they advertised the RMC as capable of that years ago. Regarding the Dirac DLBC upgrade path, yes you may upgrade from Single to Multi Sub. For ART to function you will need to have a DLBC license, either a Single or Multi. From Dirac regarding what Room Correction, Bass Control, and ART each do. This makes clear that ART doesn't do what DLBC does. edit: Forgot to add that if one wants to use BEQ, it will need to be applied last, after DLBC or ART, whichever is the highest license purchased. Then BEQ can be applied.
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Post by marcl on Feb 9, 2024 12:14:24 GMT -5
So my plan .... Well right now I have two Outlaw subs - 12" center front and 10" center rear - integrated with a miniDSP. My plan over the next few months is to assemble two open baffle dipole subs with parts from GR Research. Three 12" drivers each, with the Rhythmik servo amp. I'll probably start by sidelining the Outlaw subs and integrate the OB Dipoles exactly the same way ... but place them at my known minimum resonance points in the front of the room inboard of my Magnepan 3.7s. Once I see what they can do below 30Hz - and hopefully below 20Hz a bit - I'll decide whether or not to keep the 12" Outlaw sub to support the very bottom end. If DLBC becomes available, it will by far be my main reason to upgrade to a XMC-2+. I would get the multisub DLBC license and go from there. I also have another decision to make and that will depend somewhat on the performance of the OB Dipoles. I currently have the subs playing LFE only for multichannel video. I use my large fronts with the subs separately integrated with them to play below 50Hz only. All bass management in the room goes to the large fronts, and the subs play only the bottom 50Hz of that. But with the new subs and possibly DLBC, I may go to a conventional approach of sending all the bass management to the subs. DLBC will be a factor for sure, and may end up influencing or changing that decision. I have 2 of the Outlaw LFM-1 Subs. Unused right now but intended for rear use ala DBA or Trinnov style WF. The Subs are good. The internal amps are bad. I found the Subs to be much better at the very bottom end with resistance stuffed ports. I have an LFM-1 Compact ... yes, stuffed the port; and Ultra X12 with a plug in one port and configured for extension to 17Hz (flip the switch and it limits to 20Hz but "higher output"). Both working fine. So maybe if the OB Dipoles are shy on the bottom I just used the Ultra X12 low passed at 30 or something like that.
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