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Post by drumace on Oct 31, 2022 17:14:48 GMT -5
Hey folks,
In 2018 I bought a used XPA-1L amp and soon found out it had a humming issue (other than that it worked fine). Then it was put into storage for 3 years along with the rest of my audio equipment. A few months ago I rebuilt my audio system with the same equipment (except for new Emotiva speakers) and everything seemed to be working fine (the amp was still humming though).
About a month ago the humming amp went into protection mode. I disconnected everything from the amp, checked the cables, reconnected the cables and the amp continued to work as usual. Then I contacted Emotiva support about the humming issue and they suggest that I try loosen or tighten the transformer bold which I did (and also added some extra padding). That seemed to make the amp quieter. A few days later the amp went into a protection mode again. Again, disconnecting and reconnecting cables seemed to do the trick. Last week this happened again, only this time the amp won’t get back to normal. At a certain point the amp stopped blinking in amber and red, just returned to standby each time I’d try to turn it on. I opened up the amp to see if there’s anything unusual and noticed the 2 fuses were blown. I replied the fuses with new ones, turned on the power and seconds later both fuses blew up.
I contacted Emotiva support and they suggested that I send the amp for a repair. Since I’m not in the US (I’m based in Canada), shipping both ways plus the repair cost would be $450 USD.
Before making any decisions, I wanted to hear your thoughts on that. As far as I can see my options are either spend that amount which might not make sense because it’s probably close to the market value of this amp, or to try selling the amp for parts, but shipping might be too expensive for the buyer.
I’d also like to know if there’s anything I can test myself (e.g. using multimeter) to detect what’s wrong with the amp.
Thanks
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Post by knucklehead on Oct 31, 2022 19:24:06 GMT -5
I'd find an electronics tech close to you to have it checked out. Might be as simple as a capacitor or bad transistor. Should be cheaper than shipping to/from Emotiva.
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Post by drumace on Oct 31, 2022 20:30:31 GMT -5
I'd find an electronics tech close to you to have it checked out. Might be as simple as a capacitor or bad transistor. Should be cheaper than shipping to/from Emotiva. I tried that and none of them wanted to deal with that, and saying that it might be even more expensive than it’d be to have it fixed by Emotiva. |
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cawgijoe
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Post by cawgijoe on Oct 31, 2022 21:41:14 GMT -5
Only you can make the decision. Emotiva should be able to fix the amp. They have the test equipment and the expertise. Is the $450 worth restoring the amp versus buying a new amp?
You may also want to ask them what they would give you as trade in value to apply toward a new amp.
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Post by Boomzilla on Oct 31, 2022 22:15:27 GMT -5
Don't spend $450 to repair an XPA-1L. Instead, consider some of the BasX units.
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Post by drumace on Oct 31, 2022 22:31:05 GMT -5
Don't spend $450 to repair an XPA-1L. Instead, consider some of the BasX units. As far as I can see, the basix line is no way near the quality of the older XPA amps, especially the fully balanced ones like the XPA-1/1L and unfortunately Emotiva chose to go with cheaper components on its newer lines. I have a basix A-500 which I use for rear and surround channels and it’s fine but the XPA-1L has more power and built like a proper high end amp (huge transformer, lots of capacitance, fully balanced. |
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Post by Boomzilla on Oct 31, 2022 22:38:43 GMT -5
Don't think that "built like a proper high end amp" ensures "sounds like a high end amp." I've owned a BUNCH of Emotiva amps over the years and the three best sounding ones I've heard are (no order = all three are equivalent): The XPA-1, generation 2 The PA-1 (class D built on a B&O ICE module) The BasX series Each has strengths and weaknesses, but I think the three are equivalent. The old XPA has smoothness and power, but the other two have agility, detail, air, and life. Since you can't buy the first two anymore, I'd say the BasX line is the bargain to look at. No, you won't be able to hand them down as heirlooms to your grandchildren, but so what? How did the "quality" of the XPA-1L work out for you? The (only) other amp you should look at is the Odyssey Stratos. If I were in the market for a new amp just now, Odyssey would be my first go-to. |
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Post by vcautokid on Oct 31, 2022 23:06:58 GMT -5
Okay lets think about this here. The XPA-1L is a monoblock, so the BAS-X A1 would be your closest target form factor wise and so on. But no balanced input and the design is totally different then the XPA-1L.   Inside both of these amplifiers. The XPA-1L starts with 90,000 uF of capacitance and a 450 VA heavy duty toroidal transformer. I am looking very closely myself at the the A1 for my center channel, should be bitchin'. But compared to the XPA-1L, the BAS-X is out gunned in the power supply department and the output stages. It is that much more amplifier. It is what happens when the UPA-1 was not enough and the XPA-1 was not the deal either. So there was the XPA-1L. I assume there is at least of pair of these in play. So it would make sense to get it fixed. If you don't give the tech in your area any documentation like Schematics, parts list if applicable, he won't work on it. If I were the tech, I wouldn't work on it. Like going on a trip with no guidance. Techs are also expensive as their time and skill has to be paid for. So if you plan to get this fixed locally which I suspect makes more sense. Then you need documentation. Maybe Emotiva Support will help you out there. Other than the unique microprocessor controller inside, it is pure Class A AB amplification. Pretty straight forward and nothing too hard to get right. But getting the documentation will be a big plus. I mentioned the controller, it works the protection circuit and some other electronic goodness. Hopefully that is not the issue. I think the XPA-1L was/is a cool amplifier and the BAS-X A1 given its environment will do well. It will in my place. Everyone's mileage may vary. It might be simple, it might need more but without the schematics for a tech to trouble shoot with, he is not going to touch it. That simple. P.S. as a light refresher. www.audioholics.com/amplifier-reviews/emotiva-audio-xpa-1l-pre |
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Post by drumace on Nov 4, 2022 21:40:55 GMT -5
Okay lets think about this here. The XPA-1L is a monoblock, so the BAS-X A1 would be your closest target form factor wise and so on. But no balanced input and the design is totally different then the XPA-1L. View AttachmentView AttachmentInside both of these amplifiers. The XPA-1L starts with 90,000 uF of capacitance and a 450 VA heavy duty toroidal transformer. I am looking very closely myself at the the A1 for my center channel, should be bitchin'. But compared to the XPA-1L, the BAS-X is out gunned in the power supply department and the output stages. It is that much more amplifier. It is what happens when the UPA-1 was not enough and the XPA-1 was not the deal either. So there was the XPA-1L. I assume there is at least of pair of these in play. So it would make sense to get it fixed. If you don't give the tech in your area any documentation like Schematics, parts list if applicable, he won't work on it. If I were the tech, I wouldn't work on it. Like going on a trip with no guidance. Techs are also expensive as their time and skill has to be paid for. So if you plan to get this fixed locally which I suspect makes more sense. Then you need documentation. Maybe Emotiva Support will help you out there. Other than the unique microprocessor controller inside, it is pure Class A AB amplification. Pretty straight forward and nothing too hard to get right. But getting the documentation will be a big plus. I mentioned the controller, it works the protection circuit and some other electronic goodness. Hopefully that is not the issue. I think the XPA-1L was/is a cool amplifier and the BAS-X A1 given its environment will do well. It will in my place. Everyone's mileage may vary. It might be simple, it might need more but without the schematics for a tech to trouble shoot with, he is not going to touch it. That simple. P.S. as a light refresher. www.audioholics.com/amplifier-reviews/emotiva-audio-xpa-1l-preThanks for the feedback. A few updates: I got the schematics and yet the local technician says it’s a very complex work (amp rebuild) and his estimation is even higher that what it would cost to have it fixed at Emotiva plus the shipping! I guess he’s just not interested in that work. Unfortunately I haven’t found any other recommended technician in my area. The amp is one of 3 XPA-1L amps I have for the front channels (the one that died is one I bought separately from the 2 others). For now, I use my A-500’s 5th channel to power my C2+ but that’s not enough power for such a big and hungry center speaker. I considered the A1 but it has slightly less power than the XPA-1L, is not balanced and even doesn’t have balanced inputs. Outlaw have a nice little monoblock with balanced inputs but unfortunately it’s not a universal voltage amp like the Emotiva amps and this is important for me because I might move to some other place with different voltage in the future. |
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Post by leonski on Nov 7, 2022 14:18:03 GMT -5
Any chance of getting EMO to part with a schematic so IF you go to a local tech, they've got some documentation?
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Post by drumace on Nov 7, 2022 14:47:39 GMT -5
Any chance of getting EMO to part with a schematic so IF you go to a local tech, they've got some documentation? As I mentioned, I do have the schematics and I have it to that local technician. Unfortunately he’s not interested in that work. I’m trying to find someone else but audio technicians are a rare species here. |
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Post by selind40 on Nov 7, 2022 14:53:37 GMT -5
Where about in Canada are you? If close to Buffalo, I’ve got an extra PA-1 mono in like new condition I’d be willing to let go.
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Post by drumace on Nov 7, 2022 14:58:00 GMT -5
Where about in Canada are you? If close to Buffalo, I’ve got an extra PA-1 mono in like new condition I’d be willing to let go. Manitoba :-) Also, prefer to stay with class A/AB amp. |
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Post by JKCashin on Nov 7, 2022 23:36:16 GMT -5
Any chance of getting EMO to part with a schematic so IF you go to a local tech, they've got some documentation? As I mentioned, I do have the schematics and I have it to that local technician. Unfortunately he’s not interested in that work. I’m trying to find someone else but audio technicians are a rare species here. Any chance I can get a copy of that schematic? I have one dead XPA-1L that I'd really like to fix |
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Post by drumace on Nov 8, 2022 1:40:08 GMT -5
As I mentioned, I do have the schematics and I have it to that local technician. Unfortunately he’s not interested in that work. I’m trying to find someone else but audio technicians are a rare species here. Any chance I can get a copy of that schematic? I have one dead XPA-1L that I'd really like to fix Please PM. |
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Post by leonski on Nov 8, 2022 17:44:11 GMT -5
I hadn't seen the estimate of repair PLUS shipping.....
450$ IS a alot for an amp which best case is worth HOW MUCH? I don't know that I'd spend that much on a used XPA 1L amp.....even if it had 'just been gone over'.
Total Power Supply RECAP might help, but would not be the 'decider'.....
Too bad you can't find a LOCAL guy.......
Suggestion? Call or even JOIN any local audio club. they are all over the place, and even though I have relatives IN Buffalo area, I don't hold THAT against the place......
Local Audiophiles should have a couple go-to techs and maybe a local used gear market......sometimes good stuff comes up 'just because'.....
Mentally set a 'not to exceed' price than consider NEW from some other manufacturer. Boom likes the Stratos, but while he is reliable? I don't know that he knows anything about
you and your values. I could recommend stuff, too, but mainly stuff I LIKE already....
And with ALL DUE RESPECT to Boom? I'm a little odd about 'build quality'. 2 manufacturers could make amps from the SAME SCHEMATIC and come up with 2 way different products with
both different sound AND different reliability.
Man#1? Highest quality circuit boards (heavy traces and GR10) HIGH MTBF Semiconductors. Tier 1 PS Capacitors.....highly rated and is an airy arrangement so they NEVER get warm.....Overdo the HeatSink on the output devices......They'll NEVER over heat and do NOT need a fan. Fast Recovery Diodes.....(FRED) in some locations.....
Man#2? Cheesy boards made from compressed cardboard. (Unfixable if damaged) 2nd line Generic parts for semis. Carbon Resitors in non-critial locations. Film resitor ONLY where it really matters. 2nd String PS caps. Cut corners on heat sinks and might even use a lower rated (in VA) power transformer. More crowded board leads to higher operating temps and maybe lower reliability......
Board arrangement of the 2 products will be different. Construction quality will differ. ALL SORTS of 'spec'd' details, right down to the internal hookup wire and speaker posts / input connectors.
So MANY places to save a few pennies here and there. And in All Fairness.....some do not matter.
But most of those reviewers who remark on 'build quality' are, IMO, not as well informed as the might be....
I'm personally right on the EDGE of OCD. I'm looking at the VTA kits. The 125 watt monos SHOULD be fine for my panels. If I go to a high sensitivity speaker, power needs will drop as will costs.
But I'm already looking at hardware callout. I'd go to nylon spacers for driver board....or maybe ceramic....(I've got some in stock which should work) and go to higher grade tube sockets and hardware in general
It is IMPRESSIVE that they come with a new design STAINLESS chassis. And it is evolutionarily better.....with slots for airflow / convection. Along with ample room for a few modifications.......
Details matter....a lot.....
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Post by pedrocols on Nov 8, 2022 18:20:38 GMT -5
Okay lets think about this here. The XPA-1L is a monoblock, so the BAS-X A1 would be your closest target form factor wise and so on. But no balanced input and the design is totally different then the XPA-1L. Inside both of these amplifiers. The XPA-1L starts with 90,000 uF of capacitance and a 450 VA heavy duty toroidal transformer. I am looking very closely myself at the the A1 for my center channel, should be bitchin'. But compared to the XPA-1L, the BAS-X is out gunned in the power supply department and the output stages. It is that much more amplifier. It is what happens when the UPA-1 was not enough and the XPA-1 was not the deal either. So there was the XPA-1L. I assume there is at least of pair of these in play. So it would make sense to get it fixed. If you don't give the tech in your area any documentation like Schematics, parts list if applicable, he won't work on it. If I were the tech, I wouldn't work on it. Like going on a trip with no guidance. Techs are also expensive as their time and skill has to be paid for. So if you plan to get this fixed locally which I suspect makes more sense. Then you need documentation. Maybe Emotiva Support will help you out there. Other than the unique microprocessor controller inside, it is pure Class A AB amplification. Pretty straight forward and nothing too hard to get right. But getting the documentation will be a big plus. I mentioned the controller, it works the protection circuit and some other electronic goodness. Hopefully that is not the issue. I think the XPA-1L was/is a cool amplifier and the BAS-X A1 given its environment will do well. It will in my place. Everyone's mileage may vary. It might be simple, it might need more but without the schematics for a tech to trouble shoot with, he is not going to touch it. That simple. P.S. as a light refresher. www.audioholics.com/amplifier-reviews/emotiva-audio-xpa-1l-preDon't understand how come the BasX Monoblock don't even come close to double its 8 ohms power at 4 ohms. |
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Post by vcautokid on Nov 8, 2022 19:48:50 GMT -5
All kinds of things. It isn’t an XPA in scale. Not even a UPA in scale. I think that is okay. It is controlling your costs. If they made an XPA, like they used too it would be financially challenging all around. Also could cannibalize their current XPA versions. I think the BAS-X is great, but it is not going to be an XPA and that was never the goal from the start. The XPA-1L was a great amplifier of another time. And if you still have and enjoy them. Right on! It is one of my favorite amplifiers Emotiva made along with the XPRs. But as the profit Dylan said. Times, they be a Changin’.
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Post by leonski on Nov 8, 2022 23:31:09 GMT -5
Okay lets think about this here. The XPA-1L is a monoblock, so the BAS-X A1 would be your closest target form factor wise and so on. But no balanced input and the design is totally different then the XPA-1L. Inside both of these amplifiers. The XPA-1L starts with 90,000 uF of capacitance and a 450 VA heavy duty toroidal transformer. I am looking very closely myself at the the A1 for my center channel, should be bitchin'. But compared to the XPA-1L, the BAS-X is out gunned in the power supply department and the output stages. It is that much more amplifier. It is what happens when the UPA-1 was not enough and the XPA-1 was not the deal either. So there was the XPA-1L. I assume there is at least of pair of these in play. So it would make sense to get it fixed. If you don't give the tech in your area any documentation like Schematics, parts list if applicable, he won't work on it. If I were the tech, I wouldn't work on it. Like going on a trip with no guidance. Techs are also expensive as their time and skill has to be paid for. So if you plan to get this fixed locally which I suspect makes more sense. Then you need documentation. Maybe Emotiva Support will help you out there. Other than the unique microprocessor controller inside, it is pure Class A AB amplification. Pretty straight forward and nothing too hard to get right. But getting the documentation will be a big plus. I mentioned the controller, it works the protection circuit and some other electronic goodness. Hopefully that is not the issue. I think the XPA-1L was/is a cool amplifier and the BAS-X A1 given its environment will do well. It will in my place. Everyone's mileage may vary. It might be simple, it might need more but without the schematics for a tech to trouble shoot with, he is not going to touch it. That simple. P.S. as a light refresher. www.audioholics.com/amplifier-reviews/emotiva-audio-xpa-1l-preDon't understand how come the BasX Monoblock don't even come close to double its 8 ohms power at 4 ohms. Capacitance is a RED HERRING 'spec'. The REAL concern is stored energy. Which is a product of capacitance AND voltage. That's why a Tube Amp with what looks to be such a dearth of capacitors, can compete with SS. Fact is? When you get to a B+ of 400volts and higher? Energy storage goes WAY UP. This energy is measured in JOULES......and has nothing to do with Joules verne..... I'd have to SEE that amp with 90k mfd of capacitance......at 40 volts,. that is going to be 72 joules. a LOT...... A tube amp? 10000mfd @450v is over 1000 joules......almost 15x..... |
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KeithL
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Post by KeithL on Nov 9, 2022 12:17:44 GMT -5
When it comes to an audio amplifier both capacitance and stored energy are red herrings to a degree. What is important is having sufficient energy storage for the specific design of the amplifier you're designing. (Having insufficient capacitance or stored energy is going to handicap an amplifier...) However the design determines to a large degree what amount is sufficient to begin with... And most designs really don't benefit from more once you do have a sufficient amount... However, even beyond specifics like that, there are some more general characteristics of specific types of designs. For example the type of amplifier circuitry used in most modern solid state amplifiers has a relatively high immunity to power supply hum. And, with a properly designed push-pull tube amplifier, a lot of the hum that is present on the B+ supply cancels out in the output transformer. But, in a single-ended tube amp (like those SET designs), no such cancellation occurs, which makes them MUCH more sensitive to any hum that is present on the power supply. I should also point out that, with power supply filter capacitors, the cost and size tend to be proportional to the amount of energy storage involved. So that 10,000uF 450V capacitor is also going to be ten times the price, and ten times the size, of a 10,000uF 45V capacitor. (And a typical vintage 50 watt tube amp is going to use more like 100uF or 120uF at 450V.) And, for that matter, if you have an old tube amp... Having sufficient energy storage is important... But using a tube rectifier is going to limit the energy available to the output stage because it has a relatively high series impedance. You could avoid that limitation to some degree by using lot of capacitance... But too much extra capacitance is going to put a lot of extra strain on that rectifier tube as well being big and expensive... And you can achieve the same benefit much more easily by using a solid state rectifier instead... Don't understand how come the BasX Monoblock don't even come close to double its 8 ohms power at 4 ohms. Capacitance is a RED HERRING 'spec'. The REAL concern is stored energy. Which is a product of capacitance AND voltage. That's why a Tube Amp with what looks to be such a dearth of capacitors, can compete with SS. Fact is? When you get to a B+ of 400volts and higher? Energy storage goes WAY UP. This energy is measured in JOULES......and has nothing to do with Joules verne..... I'd have to SEE that amp with 90k mfd of capacitance......at 40 volts,. that is going to be 72 joules. a LOT...... A tube amp? 10000mfd @450v is over 1000 joules......almost 15x..... |
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