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Post by PaulBe on Nov 21, 2022 10:55:58 GMT -5
Before updating to FW 3.1, from FW 2.3, it was an occasional problem for me; maybe once every week or two. After updating to FW 3.1 it occurs everyday. I have no conclusions yet beyond the FW update. I need more data. Paul...I'm sure you have listed the equipment you have....maybe not....that might help someone here to troubleshoot....including type and length of HDMI cables....just a suggestion....don't shoot me... No problems. I used to have a list here. I took it down. The lists seemed more like ego trips than helping people troubleshoot. I think your suggestion of cables and lengths is valuable. So, I will make a list of a few things that may help others. Cables - 1. Zeskit MAYA 8K HDMI, 2 meters - from three 4K Bluray components to processor. 2. Optical 6' - from phono to processor. 3. Ruipro ultra-slim HDMI Active Optical Cable 4K, 20 meters - from processor to 4K TV |
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patlar
Seeker Of Truth
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Post by patlar on Nov 21, 2022 11:08:40 GMT -5
Here are the issues I have encountered since the 3.1 firmware update.
1 - The updating fonts issue at cold boot.
2 - The sound level of "All Stereo" was very low (-9db approx.) with firmware 2.5 and now it is much lower with firmware 3.1 (-16db approx.) but the low frequencies are much higher. In "Surround" all the levels are ok.
3 - My computer can't connect at 4k60Hz on every inputs but when an input works the screen goes black and the sound cuts at every x number of minutes. At 4k30Hz everything seems ok. No issue before the update.
Thanks.
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Post by rew452 on Nov 21, 2022 11:25:43 GMT -5
Well Folks, it obvious the selection of the Beta test team was flawed.
One would expect something like the following:
1. Roughly 50/50 of the group would be both the Old and New HDMI boards
2. A good mix of typically installed components:
a. TV/Projectors
b. Cable TV Boxes
c. BluRay/DVD players
d. Android Players
e. Apple IOS Players
f. Roku Players
g. Some High ended playback units
I would have to guess this was not as easy as it sounds for Emotiva since any Beta software could render
a system totally unusable and would require sending units back to the factory to reprogram to fix.
So I would again think that would make it a rather small geographical area to be practical.
Another method would be to supply a beta test unit for testing Emotiva firmware to testers.
Or keep a rather large number of testing components.
Obviously this can get quite expensive and time consuming.
I for one, would think it is time for Emotive to find a way to allow users/testers to revert back to older firmware versions, regardless of version. I know this may be a Tall Order but considering the numerous issues of this and previous releases would be the best corrective action to be taken in the future.
This would make new firmware testing that any user could try and report issues without any or far less bricked issues which may require sending unit back to the factory.
This could also accelerate firmware development with new and better features. With less frustrations for all and a much better Emotiva product, removing the main Achilles Heel of the present system.
It is becoming obvious we also really need some simple way to do a complete AV System wide CEC reset. This convenance, when it works; it too easily becomes a nightmare in these circumstances.
my 2cents
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Post by marcl on Nov 21, 2022 11:39:34 GMT -5
Well Folks, it obvious the selection of the Beta test team was flawed. One would expect something like the following: 1. Roughly 50/50 of the group would be both the Old and New HDMI boards 2. A good mix of typically installed components: a. TV/Projectors b. Cable TV Boxes c. BluRay/DVD players d. Android Players e. Apple IOS Players f. Roku Players g. Some High ended playback units I would have to guess this was not as easy as it sounds for Emotiva since any Beta software could render a system totally unusable and would require sending units back to the factory to reprogram to fix. So I would again think that would make it a rather small geographical area to be practical. Another method would be to supply a beta test unit for testing Emotiva firmware to testers. Or keep a rather large number of testing components. Obviously this can get quite expensive and time consuming. I for one, would think it is time for Emotive to find a way to allow users/testers to revert back to older firmware versions, regardless of version. I know this may be a Tall Order but considering the numerous issues of this and previous releases would be the best corrective action to be taken in the future. This would make new firmware testing that any user could try and report issues without any or far less bricked issues which may require sending unit back to the factory. This could also accelerate firmware development with new and better features. With less frustrations for all and a much better Emotiva product, removing the main Achilles Heel of the present system. It is becoming obvious we also really need some simple way to do a complete AV System wide CEC reset. This convenance, when it works; it too easily becomes a nightmare in these circumstances. my 2cents Your suggestions are very logical. A couple points ... It's very rare that a firmware release has to be done in such a way that users can't revert. In the nearly three years I've had my XMC-2 I don't recall this ever happening. I don't think any company would do this if they had a choice not to. Maybe KeithL can chime in on the viability of a system-wide CEC reset. However ... you're assuming two things: that the beta test process differs significantly from your recommendations; and, that the beta test team failed to identify and report the issues that users are now finding with 3.1. |
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ttocs
Global Moderator 
I always have a wonderful time, wherever I am, whomever I'm with. (Elwood P Dowd)
Posts: 8,168
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Post by ttocs on Nov 21, 2022 11:43:40 GMT -5
It is becoming obvious we also really need some simple way to do a complete AV System wide CEC reset. This one is easy. Pull the power from all devices. I know my tv needs at least 5 minutes to forget. This valuable info from Doc is worth a repost. One important thing that many either don’t know, or neglect to do, is to UNPLUG YOUR DISPLAY FROM THE WALL. It may be a little known fact, but your display is the CEC controller and stores the CEC map. All functions that rely on CEC, including HDMI-ARC, start there. Take five minutes and unplug your display from the wall while you’re doing this firmware update. Doing so will reset the CEC controller and CEC map. This five minutes might go a long way to solving some of these problems. And for those who use HDFURY devices… There can be only ONE “audio processor” in the CEC chain. If you’re using your G3P connected directly to your display to support HDMI-ARC, then make sure your HDFURY is set to be an HDMI “switch” rather than “audio processor”. If you were using your HDFURY to support ARC, then it is certainly set as an audio device. When your CEC controller (your display) sees two connected “audio processors”, it will send audio to neither. |
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Post by rew452 on Nov 21, 2022 11:44:27 GMT -5
No, I am not faulting Beta test team, I am only pointing out practical limitations of this current way of testing.
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Post by rew452 on Nov 21, 2022 11:50:59 GMT -5
It is becoming obvious we also really need some simple way to do a complete AV System wide CEC reset. This one is easy. Pull the power from all devices. I know my tv needs at least 5 minutes to forget. This valuable info from Doc is worth a repost. One important thing that many either don’t know, or neglect to do, is to UNPLUG YOUR DISPLAY FROM THE WALL. It may be a little known fact, but your display is the CEC controller and stores the CEC map. All functions that rely on CEC, including HDMI-ARC, start there. Take five minutes and unplug your display from the wall while you’re doing this firmware update. Doing so will reset the CEC controller and CEC map. This five minutes might go a long way to solving some of these problems. And for those who use HDFURY devices… There can be only ONE “audio processor” in the CEC chain. If you’re using your G3P connected directly to your display to support HDMI-ARC, then make sure your HDFURY is set to be an HDMI “switch” rather than “audio processor”. If you were using your HDFURY to support ARC, then it is certainly set as an audio device. When your CEC controller (your display) sees two connected “audio processors”, it will send audio to neither. True but CEC is not only the TV, Making this reset part of the firmware update would clear many issues. I admit I don't know if this is possible or not. Keep in mind from a electronics point of view, equipment hardware tend to fail on Power On/Off cycle. |
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Post by marcl on Nov 21, 2022 11:54:09 GMT -5
No, I am not faulting Beta test team, I am only pointing out practical limitations of this current way of testing. I understand what you're saying. I'm just saying that you're assuming that the problem is with the testing methodology. It "may" not be. I managed large software test teams for many years. There are LOTS of reasons why software is released with defects. It very, very rarely has to do with inadequate testing. It's usually something else ... most often a business decision. |
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Post by rew452 on Nov 21, 2022 12:01:59 GMT -5
No, I am not faulting Beta test team, I am only pointing out practical limitations of this current way of testing. I understand what you're saying. I'm just saying that you're assuming that the problem is with the testing methodology. It "may" not be. I managed large software test teams for many years. There are LOTS of reasons why software is released with defects. It very, very rarely has to do with inadequate testing. It's usually something else ... most often a business decision. Granted, That why having a firmware package which could be tested and be revertible is really the best choice. Everyone wins. |
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Post by PaulBe on Nov 21, 2022 12:04:32 GMT -5
Well Folks, it obvious the selection of the Beta test team was flawed. One would expect something like the following: 1. Roughly 50/50 of the group would be both the Old and New HDMI boards 2. A good mix of typically installed components: a. TV/Projectors b. Cable TV Boxes c. BluRay/DVD players d. Android Players e. Apple IOS Players f. Roku Players g. Some High ended playback units I would have to guess this was not as easy as it sounds for Emotiva since any Beta software could render a system totally unusable and would require sending units back to the factory to reprogram to fix. So I would again think that would make it a rather small geographical area to be practical. Another method would be to supply a beta test unit for testing Emotiva firmware to testers. Or keep a rather large number of testing components. Obviously this can get quite expensive and time consuming. I for one, would think it is time for Emotive to find a way to allow users/testers to revert back to older firmware versions, regardless of version. I know this may be a Tall Order but considering the numerous issues of this and previous releases would be the best corrective action to be taken in the future. This would make new firmware testing that any user could try and report issues without any or far less bricked issues which may require sending unit back to the factory. This could also accelerate firmware development with new and better features. With less frustrations for all and a much better Emotiva product, removing the main Achilles Heel of the present system. It is becoming obvious we also really need some simple way to do a complete AV System wide CEC reset. This convenance, when it works; it too easily becomes a nightmare in these circumstances. my 2cents Your suggestions are very logical. A couple points ... It's very rare that a firmware release has to be done in such a way that users can't revert. In the nearly three years I've had my XMC-2 I don't recall this ever happening. I don't think any company would do this if they had a choice not to. Maybe KeithL can chime in on the viability of a system-wide CEC reset. However ... you're assuming two things: that the beta test process differs significantly from your recommendations; and, that the beta test team failed to identify and report the issues that users are now finding with 3.1. There has been one other RMC FW update where we couldn’t revert. I don’t recall which one. The last time I updated FW on my oppo 205, I couldn’t revert. I assume the beta test team did NOT fail to identify and report the issues that users are now finding with 3.1. They agreed to NDA’s. We got bad FW – bad business decision. The beta team should feel used. I see that some of them are defending their abuser. It may be that there is no way to update FW in G3P with everything wanted. How about just make it work with what is needed? Basics? |
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cawgijoe
Emo VIPs 
"When you come to a fork in the road, take it." - Yogi Berra
Posts: 5,035
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Post by cawgijoe on Nov 21, 2022 13:08:07 GMT -5
No, I am not faulting Beta test team, I am only pointing out practical limitations of this current way of testing. I understand what you're saying. I'm just saying that you're assuming that the problem is with the testing methodology. It "may" not be. I managed large software test teams for many years. There are LOTS of reasons why software is released with defects. It very, very rarely has to do with inadequate testing. It's usually something else ... most often a business decision. 3.1 is a disapointment to those who wanted everything fixed now, those who had new problems crop up, and those who can't live with an extra couple boot up minutes in low power mode. This software was released because of the long wait and the clamoring for an update. Emotiva knew and was transparent that not everything was going to be fixed after they hired an HDMI expert who I'm sure worked hard for two weeks or so to fix what he could for now. The release decision was made to get the ball rolling. I'm also sure that the other issues are being addressed. I personally think they made a mistake not mentioning the Fonts Updating issue, however it's really not the end of the world and will be fixed. It's unfortunate that 3.1 caused issues for some. It seems to be inevitable in this day and age of computers. 3.1 has been an improvement for me. The one thing that has not been solved is the very low volume issue in VRO when NOT USING the amps. This low volume issue may be related to other low volume issues mentioned in this thread. I use the amps all the time, however my wife would not watching her shows. She has been condtioned to use them for now till it's fixed. Not the end of the world. Just my .02 for what it's worth. |
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Post by PaulBe on Nov 21, 2022 13:08:35 GMT -5
FWIW - the new FW3.1 now makes some CD's skip. Sound-silence-sound; on startup and track-to-track. Thanks EMO. You can't even make a CD play properly. This used to happen only on ATMOS and DTS:X discs. SMH...
"It's A New World"!
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Post by geebo on Nov 21, 2022 13:37:19 GMT -5
FWIW - the new FW3.1 now makes some CD's skip. Sound-silence-sound; on startup and track-to-track. Thanks EMO. You can't even make a CD play properly. This used to happen only on ATMOS and DTS:X discs. SMH... "It's A New World"! You say some CD's. Which CD's are skipping. Maybe some of us here can test them out to see if it's happening for them. I've had no issues with CD's but I probably haven't played the ones you're speaking of. And what player are you using? |
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Post by jim80z on Nov 21, 2022 13:44:59 GMT -5
Waiting to upgrade until I get a feel for new issues. For those who have upgraded, is the current 3.1 version worth the upgrade? No *adding more info after realising my short "no" answer isn't very helpful* I don't use ARC, I have a single projector in a dedicated room. My output complexity is much less than other people and I boot my system from scratch each time. So the prior version of the firmware was fairly stable and worked except for things like interface slowness, upmixing/latest codecs, bass management, clicks/pops.........The slowness wasn't a problem once the system was setup, same for bass management (although some of the options didn't work right eg LFE, Enhanced etc). Codec item was a nice to have as the current deployment covers most/all that I need right now. Clicks and pops were the worst issue for me and people saying that this had improved under 3.1 drove me to update my FW. I should note for completeness that an output expansion board was an item I was waiting for as well, but with the announcement of G4 I doubt this is now coming in any FW incarnation wrt G3 processors. So I now have 3.1 and: - clicks and pops still here and as annoying as ever - so the one thing that I thought was fixed and ultimately drove me to 3.1 isn't fixed. Although there may be some minor improvement between certain audio format changes?? - yes interface is faster - had some bass issues. Im starting to think they are related to Nvidia Shield only and am still tracking it down. - yes I have an older HDMI board and therefore the font issue....although annoying that its there I get Siri to boot the system while Im on my way to the room....by the time I grab a drink, nibbles, pitstop etc and get there its all booted anyway - Im sure it will get fixed. So overall No, but at the moment not a show stopper. |
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ttocs
Global Moderator
I always have a wonderful time, wherever I am, whomever I'm with. (Elwood P Dowd)
Posts: 8,168
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Post by ttocs on Nov 21, 2022 13:50:28 GMT -5
I've been as positive and as helpful as I can be. But all this whining is too destructive, so I'll take a break from my attempts at being helpful. good luck.
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Post by PaulBe on Nov 21, 2022 14:10:57 GMT -5
FWIW - the new FW3.1 now makes some CD's skip. Sound-silence-sound; on startup and track-to-track. Thanks EMO. You can't even make a CD play properly. This used to happen only on ATMOS and DTS:X discs. SMH... "It's A New World"! You say some CD's. Which CD's are skipping. Maybe some of us here can test them out to see if it's happening for them. I've had no issues with CD's but I probably haven't played the ones you're speaking of. And what player are you using? The latest is "The Christmas Revels, Music in Celebration of the Winter Solstice". This is time of year that I play a lot of Christmas music. Players are oppo 205, Panasonic UB420, and Sony UBP-X800M2. All tried today with the same results on this disc. Several other Christmas discs played yesterday. All of yesterday's discs were played on the UB420. We do not need to go down this fruitless road. It's not the discs. It's not the players. I have played these discs flawlessly for years. This problem has not occurred until yesterday, after FW3.1 was installed. |
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cawgijoe
Emo VIPs
"When you come to a fork in the road, take it." - Yogi Berra
Posts: 5,035
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Post by cawgijoe on Nov 21, 2022 14:17:40 GMT -5
You say some CD's. Which CD's are skipping. Maybe some of us here can test them out to see if it's happening for them. I've had no issues with CD's but I probably haven't played the ones you're speaking of. And what player are you using? The latest is "The Christmas Revels, Music in Celebration of the Winter Solstice". This is time of year that I play a lot of Christmas music. Players are oppo 205, and Panasonic UB420, and Sony UBP-X800M2. All tried today with the same results on this disc. Several other Christmas discs played yesterday. All of yesterday's discs were played on the UB420. We do not need to go down this fruitless road. It's not the discs. It's not the players. I have played these discs flawlessly for years. This problem has not occurred until yesterday, after FW3.1 was installed. I don't have that disc, but I'll play some cd's tonight from my Emotiva ERC-1, and Oppo 203 and see if I run into any issues. |
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Post by geebo on Nov 21, 2022 14:25:23 GMT -5
You say some CD's. Which CD's are skipping. Maybe some of us here can test them out to see if it's happening for them. I've had no issues with CD's but I probably haven't played the ones you're speaking of. And what player are you using? The latest is "The Christmas Revels, Music in Celebration of the Winter Solstice". This is time of year that I play a lot of Christmas music. Players are oppo 205, Panasonic UB420, and Sony UBP-X800M2. All tried today with the same results on this disc. Several other Christmas discs played yesterday. All of yesterday's discs were played on the UB420. We do not need to go down this fruitless road. It's not the discs. It's not the players. I have played these discs flawlessly for years. This problem has not occurred until yesterday, after FW3.1 was installed. I was hoping to try the disc on my system to see if I get the same results as you. Sorry I don't have that disc and sorry I offered to try to duplicate your issue. |
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Post by PaulBe on Nov 21, 2022 14:46:13 GMT -5
The latest is "The Christmas Revels, Music in Celebration of the Winter Solstice". This is time of year that I play a lot of Christmas music. Players are oppo 205, Panasonic UB420, and Sony UBP-X800M2. All tried today with the same results on this disc. Several other Christmas discs played yesterday. All of yesterday's discs were played on the UB420. We do not need to go down this fruitless road. It's not the discs. It's not the players. I have played these discs flawlessly for years. This problem has not occurred until yesterday, after FW3.1 was installed. I was hoping to try the disc on my system to see if I get the same results as you. Sorry I don't have that disc and sorry I offered to try to duplicate your issue. My bad. I appreciate your offer. I'm sure your time is just as valuable as everyone's. It should be clear by now that the major problem is the RMC and it's FW. It's not auxiliary equipment or source material; especially with something as simple as a CD, or several CD's. I flawlessly played a 4K movie on the same UB420 player last night. I do suspect that if there is enough recorded silence before sound begins, that the audio bounce is not heard. Concerning ttocs post above, noting serious systemic flaws is NOT whining. |
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Lonnie
Emo Staff
admin
Pay no attention to the man behind the curtain
Posts: 6,999
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Post by Lonnie on Nov 21, 2022 14:51:12 GMT -5
Hello one and all,
I was just catching up on the post from the weekend and wanted to jump in for a minute.
To those who have run into some issues, I and sorry. I have seen a few come through our in house ticket system and we will help you in anyway we can. If you have run into an issue, but have not contacted us directly, I encourage you to do so. We are happy to help.
I have seen a number of post making unfounded accusations about the credibility of the beta test group. Let me set the record straight. The Font loading on a cold boot for older HDMI boards was found by the beta group and brought to our attention. For many reasons (of which I will not explain), the decision was made to release the code. As I have stated before as well as many others, if you simply set your unit to Video Remains On, then it won't come up. If you choose to set the processor to low power standby, that is your choice, but honestly the processor does not draw enough juice in this mode to make any significant difference in your electric bill. Depending on where you live it is like a dollar a month. None-the-less, we are aware of this and we have identified what is causing it, so it will be resolved in the next firmware release.
To the 2000+ customers who have updated and are not having issues. The emails we have received and the kind comments, are very much appreciated and have been passed along to the engineering team.
Lonnie
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