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Post by Boomzilla on Jan 24, 2023 2:17:59 GMT -5
We have Cox cable service with their box. Lately (six to eight months), we've been having audio dropouts. The audio will suddenly go silent for up to a second or so while the picture continues normally. Then the audio returns without issue and plays anywhere from a few minutes to a few hours with no further dropouts. Lately, the dropout frequency seems to be increasing.
The setup is:
Cox coaxial cable to a surge suppressor / ground interruptor
Jumper coaxial cable from the surge suppressor to the Cox box
HDMI cable from the Cox box to the Samsung box (Samsung uses a "collector box" for HDMI inputs that connects to the screen with their proprietary cable)
Samsung box to screen cable
Screen itself (with internal audio)
This issue could come from:
Cox themselves or their set-top box
The HDMI cable from the box to the Samsung box
The Samsung box itself
The proprietary cable from the Samsung box to the screen
The screen itself
Tests I might try:
Put a disc in the disc player and see if the dropouts continue from that source
Swap HDMI cables from the Cox box to the Samsung box
Replace the Cox box with a new one (free from Cox)
I strongly suspect that everything up to the screen (other than the Cox signal itself or their box) is OK - otherwise I'd lose video too - not just audio. If I'm right, then the problem is from the Cox signal itself, the Cox box, or my screen. I think that were this a cable problem (coax, HDMI, or the Samsung connecting cable) that I'd lose both audio and video - not just audio alone. But I might be wrong?
Ideas?
Thanks - Glenn
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Post by vcautokid on Jan 24, 2023 5:48:04 GMT -5
Do you have another AV device of which to see if the dropouts persist? If so and it does, sounds like Cox to me.
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Post by 405x5 on Jan 24, 2023 9:21:25 GMT -5
The first thing I do when something like that happens is think about how long I’ve had the cable box. If it’s been more than a year, I just pull the plug and take it down to the office and swap it out for a new one. It’s free with most companies to do that and it keeps you up-to-date with the equipment from the office.
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Post by Boomzilla on Jan 24, 2023 11:13:26 GMT -5
The first thing I do when something like that happens is think about how long I’ve had the cable box. If it’s been more than a year, I just pull the plug and take it down to the office and swap it out for a new one. It’s free with most companies to do that and it keeps you up-to-date with the equipment from the office. I'm strongly suspecting that it IS the cable box. Not only have we had the audio dropouts, but also we get occasional freezes where the channel won't change. If I unplug and restart the cable box, the proper function returns for a while. The need to reset the cable box has also increased in frequency lately. Since new boxes are free on request, I may try changing the cable box and remote first. Thanks for the reminder. |
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Post by Boomzilla on Jan 24, 2023 11:21:41 GMT -5
Do you have another AV device of which to see if the dropouts persist? If so and it does, sounds like Cox to me. Yeah - I can do that. My strategy is: Change the cable box first. If I still get dropouts, test the audio with a Blu-ray Disc to see if the dropouts persist. If they don't happen with the disc, then Cox is most likely the problem. If I get dropouts with the disc also, then the TV is the problem. If I need to replace the TV, what size is the best in "inches per dollar spent?" I've currently got a 65", and it's OK for my room, but a larger screen (particularly for movies) would be nice. I don't want a projector based system because my wife leaves the TV on about 18 hours per day. She even often sleeps on the living room couch with the TV on. The number of hours on a projector bulb (and the sound system) would get expensive in a hurry. Why the sound system? Because I have a vacuum tube integrated amplifier and tubes age quickly. |
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KeithL
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Post by KeithL on Jan 24, 2023 11:54:06 GMT -5
It could be that the box itself is failing... Or it could just be a momentary Internet glitch... Here on XFinity I frequently see momentary refusals to change channels, or to display the guide, or delete a program from the DVR. They usually correspond to a brief Internet outage. Even though the cable content itself is separate our local cable boxes now rely on the Internet to send and acknowledge commands. (So, if the Internet goes down, or just glitches, the cable goes wonky too.) The first thing I do when something like that happens is think about how long I’ve had the cable box. If it’s been more than a year, I just pull the plug and take it down to the office and swap it out for a new one. It’s free with most companies to do that and it keeps you up-to-date with the equipment from the office. I'm strongly suspecting that it IS the cable box. Not only have we had the audio dropouts, but also we get occasional freezes where the channel won't change. If I unplug and restart the cable box, the proper function returns for a while. The need to reset the cable box has also increased in frequency lately. Since new boxes are free on request, I may try changing the cable box and remote first. Thanks for the reminder. |
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cawgijoe
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Post by cawgijoe on Jan 24, 2023 11:58:30 GMT -5
Do you have another AV device of which to see if the dropouts persist? If so and it does, sounds like Cox to me. Yeah - I can do that. My strategy is: Change the cable box first. If I still get dropouts, test the audio with a Blu-ray Disc to see if the dropouts persist. If they don't happen with the disc, then Cox is most likely the problem. If I get dropouts with the disc also, then the TV is the problem. If I need to replace the TV, what size is the best in "inches per dollar spent?" I've currently got a 65", and it's OK for my room, but a larger screen (particularly for movies) would be nice. I don't want a projector based system because my wife leaves the TV on about 18 hours per day. She even often sleeps on the living room couch with the TV on. The number of hours on a projector bulb (and the sound system) would get expensive in a hurry. Why the sound system? Because I have a vacuum tube integrated amplifier and tubes age quickly. You can get 75" lcd/led tv's at a decent price these days. If you want an OLED, then expect to pay around $1,000 more than a 65" OLED for a 77". 65" appears to be the "sweet spot" currently in terms of value. If you are keeping the TV on for long periods of time, I would stick with an LED set just to make sure you avoid burn in. Go to Rtings.com to see their recommendations. |
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Post by LuisV on Jan 24, 2023 13:09:10 GMT -5
If it's the cable box, put it on a, insert brand name here, wall wart smart device and reboot the cable box on a schedule while sleeping.
HDMI cables, grab another brand; I've been having excellent luck with Amazon Basics or Cable Matters.
Besides the new wireless TV released at CES this year, I've never seen a TV with a separate box and proprietary cable. What model do you have?
Looking for a new TV? Micro-LED if it's in a bright room, OLED if you can control the ambient light. Super Bowl sales are going on now... so maybe this is perfect timing for you?
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Post by vcautokid on Jan 24, 2023 15:57:07 GMT -5
Big things I see when I monitor a client ISP service is latency, data loss, and also virtualization performance. The last one really for us. Most ISPs are middling in area of Latency about 20-30ms. Data loss anywhere from 0 to 25% average. Peaking 100% when the lights go out and worse. It is amazing how much I see in crappy service from ISPs. Speed isn't all there is here. My analogy is what good is a highway you do 200mph on if I fall into a hole the size of your car every 200ft? ISPs can really be poor when they want to be. In fairness, the fiber networks tend, but not always be better than the legacy ones. I had TDS out in Smryna, Just killed in performance. All fiber. What everyone liked. And this was shared among 3 of us. No drops, no aritfacts, it was solid as it got.
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Post by Boomzilla on Jan 24, 2023 16:25:51 GMT -5
It could be that the box itself is failing... Or it could just be a momentary Internet glitch... Fortunately (?) the local cable provider (Cox) doesn't use any in-house internet connections. They may at their broadcast hub, but I wouldn't know about that. The only thing connected to my house is the coaxial cable. |
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Post by Boomzilla on Jan 24, 2023 16:33:32 GMT -5
If it's the cable box, put it on a, insert brand name here, wall wart smart device and reboot the cable box on a schedule while sleeping. I may try this if the new cable box evidences the same behavior as the old one. Thanks for the idea! HDMI cables, grab another brand; I've been having excellent luck with Amazon Basics or Cable Matters. I agree - I'm using Amazon Basics, but have others to try if needed. Besides the new wireless TV released at CES this year, I've never seen a TV with a separate box and proprietary cable. What model do you have? This is an older Samsung 65" - Don't recall the model off the top of my head. Looking for a new TV? Micro-LED if it's in a bright room, OLED if you can control the ambient light. Super Bowl sales are going on now... so maybe this is perfect timing for you? No interest in changing unless the TV I've got is about to go out. Should know in a day or two - Thanks for the suggestion! Glenn |
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Post by Boomzilla on Jan 24, 2023 16:43:42 GMT -5
Big things I see when I monitor a client ISP service is latency, data loss, and also virtualization performance. The last one really for us. Most ISPs are middling in area of Latency about 20-30ms. Data loss anywhere from 0 to 25% average. Peaking 100% when the lights go out and worse. It is amazing how much I see in crappy service from ISPs. Speed isn't all there is here. My analogy is what good is a highway you do 200mph on if I fall into a hole the size of your car every 200ft? ISPs can really be poor when they want to be. In fairness, the fiber networks tend, but not always be better than the legacy ones. I had TDS out in Smryna, Just killed in performance. All fiber. What everyone liked. And this was shared among 3 of us. No drops, no aritfacts, it was solid as it got. This is a "One ISP Town," pardner. Cox gave all the city councilmen free service to ensure that they had a monopoly on the cable business here. It's worked for Cox so far. Having a bought-and-paid-for monopoly, Cox isn't too concerned about providing high speed service (or high reliability service - or low cost service - or good customer support or ...). You get the idea... I pay for a "business premium" service plan and on a good day like today am getting 9.23 Mbps download and 8.52 Mbps upload. But let anything more than a breeze blow, and total outages are not unusual. AT&T offers "high speed fiber service" but my neighbor, a gamer, paid for it and it never worked (at least not reliably). One can also get Dish internet here, but from what I've heard, it's the worst of all worlds. At least I have a functional, relatively-high-speed internet. Many don't. Postscriptum - I drove to the Cox office this morning, and within a few minutes received a new cable box and remote. After two calls to Cox service to initialize the box and authorize the program package that we pay for, everything seems to be working fine. I'll know in a day or two whether audio dropouts and channel-changing freezes continue. The cable box seems to be the same make and model Cisco that I had previously. These boxes run hot. I may put some felt pads on the bottom of the factory feet to raise the box slightly more and get more cooling air throughput. |
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KeithL
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Post by KeithL on Jan 24, 2023 17:03:16 GMT -5
There are lots of ways to connect all that stuff together. All we have coming into the house with XFinity is a single coax cable. That coax carries both the cable content and the Internet connection (they all use the same "carrier channels".) That coax cable goes into a coax splitter - with one output going to the cable box and one output going to the cable internet modem. However the cable box gets its Internet connection directly from its own coax connection. Years ago you could still have the cable box working even if the Internet service was down. But, even though you can get cable programming service, and not get home Internet service at all... At some point, the cable programming became "dependent" internally on a working Internet connection. I don't actually know they split up the signal any more since we now have regular programming, on-demand, and cloud-based DVR on the same cable box. As an end user I have no way to actually determine whether some of the content is still "channelized" or whether it's now all being delivered via IP. The support people either don't know or aren't supposed to say... and the details really don't matter It used to be possible to lose Internet service and still have cable service... but that no longer seems to be true. It's also pretty obvious that, at least in my area, and at the moment, XFinity (Comcast) is now making an obvious effort to push everyone to streaming. They have upgraded their network, raised the default speed on all of their tiers of Internet service, and are now offering higher top tier Internet speeds... They are also giving their new streaming box to anyone who subscribes to their Internet service for free... And, at the same time, they seem to have discontinued all of the "multi-service promotions" that included a discount for including "regular cable"... It could be that the box itself is failing... Or it could just be a momentary Internet glitch... Fortunately (?) the local cable provider (Cox) doesn't use any in-house internet connections. They may at their broadcast hub, but I wouldn't know about that. The only thing connected to my house is the coaxial cable. |
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Post by mountain on Jan 24, 2023 17:05:10 GMT -5
I would try bypassing the surge protector first.
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KeithL
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Post by KeithL on Jan 24, 2023 17:09:48 GMT -5
It's also not a bad idea to check the wires and connections. Make sure that all of the coax connections are nice and tight. And, if you have extra splitters, or wires "going to TVs that aren't there any more", disconnect or eliminate them. Splits that "go nowhere" use up signal strength and cause impedance mismatches that otherwise reduce the quality of the signal. I would try bypassing the surge protector first. |
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Post by Boomzilla on Jan 24, 2023 19:10:35 GMT -5
I would try bypassing the surge protector first. I'll do that - but ONLY as an absolute last resort. Why? Doing so introduces LOUD hum into my audio system. How are they connected? Through the )(*&^%$#QW#$%^&* HDMI cables. Both the disc player and the cable box connect to the TV through HDMI. That creates a common ground, leading to a ground loop. Then the disc player connects to the audio preamp via grounds in the RCA interconnect cables. The result is hum in the audio system that can only be overcome by disconnecting the disc player's HDMI from the TV. This is a PITA when one wants to watch a disc-based movie. The surge suppressor, however, isolates the cable ground from the cable box, therefore eliminating hum in the audio system. Given the choice between occasional audio dropouts in the TV signal and perpetual hum in the audio system, I'll take the former every time. |
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Post by Boomzilla on Jan 25, 2023 6:49:08 GMT -5
So with the NEW cable box, here's what's happening:
The screen goes black roughly every 30 minutes (no video, no audio). To get a picture back, I have to use the remote to turn off the cable box, then turn it on again. After that, things work OK for a while.
When public service announcements, such as weather alerts, interrupt the normal programming, the screen goes black (no video, no audio). Same sequence as above to get signal back. The alert comes up (the first part having been lost while the cable box was reset). When the display switches from the emergency announcement back to normal programming, the channels won't switch via the remote. To restore channel switching, I have to use the remote to turn off the cable box, then turn it on again. After that, things work OK for a while.
No audio dropouts yet, but will monitor those today.
Defective cable box?
Thanks - Glenn
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cawgijoe
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Post by cawgijoe on Jan 25, 2023 8:09:57 GMT -5
So with the NEW cable box, here's what's happening: The screen goes black roughly every 30 minutes (no video, no audio). To get a picture back, I have to use the remote to turn off the cable box, then turn it on again. After that, things work OK for a while. When public service announcements, such as weather alerts, interrupt the normal programming, the screen goes black (no video, no audio). Same sequence as above to get signal back. The alert comes up (the first part having been lost while the cable box was reset). When the display switches from the emergency announcement back to normal programming, the channels won't switch via the remote. To restore channel switching, I have to use the remote to turn off the cable box, then turn it on again. After that, things work OK for a while. No audio dropouts yet, but will monitor those today. Defective cable box? Thanks - Glenn Frustrating! 1) I assume you have checked all connections to make sure they are tight. 2) Assume you have tried different HDMI cables. 3) Check the Cox connection(s) that come into the house...it could be a bad connector on an RG6 cable (if the system uses coax). I've had this before, where the connector was loose and "gigling"it caused the signal to go in and out. This was particulary true prior to compression connections. To fix, I removed the old crimp connector and replaced it with a compression connector. You may end up having to go for a service call...video the issue ahead of time though,just in case they say "everything is fine". |
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Post by Boomzilla on Jan 25, 2023 8:58:02 GMT -5
Frustrating! 1) I assume you have checked all connections to make sure they are tight. Yes. 2) Assume you have tried different HDMI cables. Yes. 3) Check the Cox connection(s) that come into the house...it could be a bad connector on an RG6 cable (if the system uses coax). I've had this before, where the connector was loose and "gigling"it caused the signal to go in and out. This was particulary true prior to compression connections. To fix, I removed the old crimp connector and replaced it with a compression connector... The Cox tech came by recently (past month or two) and checked all connections from the trunk to the house. I don't think it's this because if it were, restarting the cable box wouldn't restore service. You may end up having to go for a service call... I think that Cox will try to give me another box prior to sending anyone - especially if I come to pick it up. |
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KeithL
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Post by KeithL on Jan 25, 2023 10:57:29 GMT -5
To skip ahead to the punch line... If the technician has checked your feed and given it a clean bill of health... Then, if it's on your end, that sounds like it could well be the cable box just glitching now and then... And there's not a lot they can do to test that other than to replace it and see if the problem goes away. (Many modern boxes will log errors that they detect... and the cable company can often "read that remotely from the box"... but obviously only if the box detects the problem.) Here's the way the "original coax cable setup" works... The coaxial cable coming into the house carries a sort of high frequency two-way carrier signal. In general, both "a cable box", and "a cable modem", tap into some of the channels in this signal. What the technician with the meter is checking is essentially the "signal strength" and "signal purity" of this signal. (Signal strength is lost with long cables, and with every time you add a splitter, but a pretty wide range will work just fine.) At your home the "cable box" separates the cable programs from this carrier signal... And the "cable modem" separates the TCP/IP network connection (the Internet connection)... (You can think of it as your network connection "riding on some of the channels in the carrier signal".) But, at the "upstream" end, the network connection eventually connects to "the Internet" via routers and switches and other network gear... (Also keep in mind that "the Internet" is not exactly "a thing"; your ISP almost certainly connects to multiple points, or even multiple higher level ISPs, at different locations. And all of these routers and other gear can slow down, or fail and need to be reset, and they also reroute traffic to adjust to current traffic conditions... The way this works is really complicated... and it can sometimes result in the connection "freezing" for a few seconds... or even a few minutes. (The bottom line is that this sort of thing is expected and your equipment is supposed to be able to deal with it.) With modern cable and Internet service there are a lot more variations. For example, with some, the entire "service" is now just a high-speed network connection, and the content channels are really just Internet streams... (Basically it's just streaming... although certain streams may be outside your control or have priority.) You can find all sorts of cool programs that will tell you exactly which way your network traffic is going at any given moment... And, likewise, a lot of the details of exactly how your cable company is doing this is available, if you hunt around for it... (It's not exactly a secret but they tend not to actually want to give out that sort of details for a variety of reasons.) HOWEVER, since there's not much you can do about it, it's mostly really just "for academic interest"... (And, be warned, in terms of politics and technical details, it's a real warren of rabbit holes you can get lost down...) For example: - Is Comcast throttling Netflix in your area? - They say no but not everybody believes them. - And there are apps that can test for whether this seems to be happening (not with 100% reliability though). - And what could you do if it was happening? - You could use a VPN to encrypt your traffic. - Would that "fix" the "problem"? - Yes and no. The VPN encryption would prevent Comcast from seeing that you're watching Netflix. BUT virtually all VPN services are far slower than the speed you get when not using them. (And that will also depend on the time of day, how fast your particular VPN is at that time, and how fast your computer is.) (And, of course, if you are being throttled, they could be throttling Netflix, or throttling everything at busy times, or only Netflix at busy times.) (And it's also worth mentioning that deliberate throttling, which may be done at high-traffic times, is not the same as just plain slowdowns due to too much traffic.) (And, of course, it could just be that you have a slow router... or you've got your router configured wrong.) Just as an example.... My connection between my desktop computer and Proboards makes six stops ("network hops"). My connection between this computer and Netflix reports 12 different stops (then it reaches at least one that "doesn't want to talk to me"). (That's as reported by TraceRT, which is a free utility, and is still built into Windows at least, but isn't especially pushy... ) Frustrating! 1) I assume you have checked all connections to make sure they are tight. Yes. 2) Assume you have tried different HDMI cables. Yes. 3) Check the Cox connection(s) that come into the house...it could be a bad connector on an RG6 cable (if the system uses coax). I've had this before, where the connector was loose and "gigling"it caused the signal to go in and out. This was particulary true prior to compression connections. To fix, I removed the old crimp connector and replaced it with a compression connector... The Cox tech came by recently (past month or two) and checked all connections from the trunk to the house. I don't think it's this because if it were, restarting the cable box wouldn't restore service. You may end up having to go for a service call... I think that Cox will try to give me another box prior to sending anyone - especially if I come to pick it up. |
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