ken51
Minor Hero
Posts: 37
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Post by ken51 on Jun 13, 2023 13:59:17 GMT -5
I recently purchased a Music Hall 1.5 TT that came with a rebadged AT3600L ( Melody Maker). Though competent, it sounded a bit thin. I am a budget guy; always thinking my financial situation is going to go belly up. So, I went to my local hifi shop and bought an Ortofon Red. Huge difference. I was immediately impressed and was reengaged to the music. Now I’m thinking of returning it and just getting the Ortofon Blue. Buy once, cry once. So, my question is about DACs? I have listened to DACs that cost about $500 and couldn’t tell the difference between them and the DACs that come with my Yamaha S300 CDP, Bluesound Node 2i, or the DAC in my Emotiva PT100. Where as the $100 difference in a cartridge was huge, where is that difference in a DAC?
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Post by AudioHTIT on Jun 13, 2023 14:27:53 GMT -5
I recently purchased a Music Hall 1.5 TT that came with a rebadged AT3600L ( Melody Maker). Though competent, it sounded a bit thin. I am a budget guy; always thinking my financial situation is going to go belly up. So, I went to my local hifi shop and bought an Ortofon Red. Huge difference. I was immediately impressed and was reengaged to the music. Now I’m thinking of returning it and just getting the Ortofon Blue. Buy once, cry once. So, my question is about DACs? I have listened to DACs that cost about $500 and couldn’t tell the difference between them and the DACs that come with my Yamaha S300 CDP, Bluesound Node 2i, or the DAC in my Emotiva PT100. Where as the $100 difference in a cartridge was huge, where is that difference in a DAC? I’ll just say that a cartridge is a transducer (converting mechanical movement into an electrical signal), and as such has a much more difficult job than a DAC. So (like speakers) it’s easier to hear the differences (and improvements) in transducers than pure electronic devices. |
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Post by vcautokid on Jun 13, 2023 19:21:45 GMT -5
Yep most DACs around $500.00 or so, sound really close. My home boys made sure of that. Plus they are so good, fighting for every last sliver of customer out there. So their best foot forward. Analog is allot more fun, but you are going to be allot more busy, vs. a tablet, a mouse and a confuser.....er...uh..computer. Digital is about efficiency and packaging. Can't be beat. Where you want to go? Analog you build collection to be done in a local manner. You can't bring your turntable with you on a flight. But getting the right setup on your vinyl play is heavenly. Don't look for the DAC front to get easier to chose from anytime soon. I am looking at a Fiio K9 for my Headphone and DAC for my TEAC A-7300 reel to reel and reel and more. I don't know if I want the pro or the regular for less. Then there is the XDA-3 coming. Hmmm, bet that will be special too. Though it will be full rack width, I like the half rack size these days. But if the XDA-3 is special enough, size won't matter.
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ken51
Minor Hero
Posts: 37
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Post by ken51 on Jun 14, 2023 5:25:27 GMT -5
Thanks for the replies. Fortunately, I was born without golden ears, though I do have Goldenear speakers. With speakers, my ears are discerning. I know what I like and can hear differences. But with electronics, amps and such, I can’t hear too much differences, even at substantial price differences. Like $500-$1000. When I bought my Emotiva gear at a shop, it was auditioned against integrated amps at those price differences. I bought the BasX A300 with pre amp for $700. The vinyl experience has been fun. Going in I vowed not to buy albums I had previously bought, but explore artists I had missed out on. So I’ve been getting into Ry Cooder, David Lindley, Taj Mahal, Keb Mo, and more bluesy stuff. Their records in VG+ condition at the shops and shows have been priced between $3-$8. Again, thanks for the replies.
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Post by doc1963 on Jun 14, 2023 8:19:05 GMT -5
... I went to my local hifi shop and bought an Ortofon Red. Huge difference. I was immediately impressed and was reengaged to the music. Now I’m thinking of returning it and just getting the Ortofon Blue. Buy once, cry once... You've already gotten solid feedback concerning DACs, but I'll give you some advice on this... You don't necessarily need to break down your table and return the 2M Red to get to the Blue. Save yourself the time and effort involved (and about 50 bucks) and just order the "Blue" replacement stylus. The "motor" is exactly the same between the 2M Red and Blue and the stylus is interchangeable between them. The only thing you'll need to adjust is the tracking force (which is less effort than mounting and aligning the entire cartridge). The same is true for the "Bronze" and "Black" as those two share the same motor (which is different than that of the Red/Blue). For not much more in the way of cost, you can have both the Blue and the Red. Hope this helps...  |
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Post by 405x5 on Jun 14, 2023 8:26:50 GMT -5
“So, my question is about DACs? I have listened to DACs that cost about $500 and couldn’t tell the difference between them and the DACs that come with my Yamaha S300 CDP, Bluesound Node 2i, or the DAC in my Emotiva PT100.” you answered your own question |
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ken51
Minor Hero
Posts: 37
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Post by ken51 on Jun 14, 2023 12:40:18 GMT -5
Doc1963: I would exchange the Red. At $179 for the the Blue stylus, I would paying $279 for the Red with the Blue stylus. Thanks for the reply.
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ken51
Minor Hero
Posts: 37
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Post by ken51 on Jun 14, 2023 12:44:04 GMT -5
... I went to my local hifi shop and bought an Ortofon Red. Huge difference. I was immediately impressed and was reengaged to the music. Now I’m thinking of returning it and just getting the Ortofon Blue. Buy once, cry once... You've already gotten solid feedback concerning DACs, but I'll give you some advice on this... You don't necessarily need to break down your table and return the 2M Red to get to the Blue. Save yourself the time and effort involved (and about 50 bucks) and just order the "Blue" replacement stylus. The "motor" is exactly the same between the 2M Red and Blue and the stylus is interchangeable between them. The only thing you'll need to adjust is the tracking force (which is less effort than mounting and aligning the entire cartridge). The same is true for the "Bronze" and "Black" as those two share the same motor (which is different than that of the Red/Blue). For not much more in the way of cost, you can have both the Blue and the Red. Hope this helps... |
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ken51
Minor Hero
Posts: 37
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Post by ken51 on Jun 14, 2023 12:49:17 GMT -5
“So, my question is about DACs? I have listened to DACs that cost about $500 and couldn’t tell the difference between them and the DACs that come with my Yamaha S300 CDP, Bluesound Node 2i, or the DAC in my Emotiva PT100.” you answered your own question It seems like every reviewer is claiming DACs which are included in streamers or CD players are crap and you must upgrade. It also seems the world has gone DAC crazy. |
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KeithL
Administrator 
Posts: 10,261
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Post by KeithL on Jun 14, 2023 13:31:50 GMT -5
Phono cartridges are electro-mechanical (like speakers)... And, in addition to that, a phono preamp applies a lot of equalization, almost always using analog circuitry... As a result phono cartridges tend to sound very different. And even phono preamps often sound quite different. The differences between DACs tend to be far more subtle. There are a few low cost DACs that actually do sound audibly bad... But most modern DACs are actually at least pretty good... And, with that as a starting point, the benefits you'll get by spending a lot more are smaller and more subtle. It's also worth mentioning that it does depend on what you listen to. For example, if you stream from a source like Spotify, who uses lossy compression, then the source itself will impose a top limit on the sound quality. The lossy compression that Spotify uses actually sounds pretty good... but you won't gain much by listening to it through a really high-end DAC. Likewise, if you use Bluetooth to stream through your phone, then that is probably the limiting factor. And it's also going to depend on the sort of music you listen to. For example, if you know what to listen for, the differences between DACs may be audible with things like acoustic guitar music and jazz... But you're a lot less likely to notice them with heavily processed rock or pop music. And, even with a high quality source, like a computer or a good streamer, the difference between DACs is going to be far less dramatic than the difference between phono cartridges or preamps. And, finally, with DACs even more than with other audio components, price doesn't always correlate well with sound quality. There are some $100 DACs that sound very good... and a few that cost ten times that price that really don't... I haven't heard the DACs in your particular Yahama, or in the BlueSound, but I can tell you that the DACs in our PT-100 actually sound pretty good. So a separate $500 DAC might sound better... but I wouldn't bet on it either way. I recently purchased a Music Hall 1.5 TT that came with a rebadged AT3600L ( Melody Maker). Though competent, it sounded a bit thin. I am a budget guy; always thinking my financial situation is going to go belly up. So, I went to my local hifi shop and bought an Ortofon Red. Huge difference. I was immediately impressed and was reengaged to the music. Now I’m thinking of returning it and just getting the Ortofon Blue. Buy once, cry once. So, my question is about DACs? I have listened to DACs that cost about $500 and couldn’t tell the difference between them and the DACs that come with my Yamaha S300 CDP, Bluesound Node 2i, or the DAC in my Emotiva PT100. Where as the $100 difference in a cartridge was huge, where is that difference in a DAC? |
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ken51
Minor Hero
Posts: 37
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Post by ken51 on Jun 14, 2023 13:51:43 GMT -5
The DACs in my three components, to me, sound the same. I listen to lossless streaming and CDs. And that, too, sounds the same, as I will sync what I’m playing to A/B. I have always been blessed with non audiophile ears.
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Post by pedrocols on Jun 14, 2023 21:39:23 GMT -5
The DACs in my three components, to me, sound the same. I listen to lossless streaming and CDs. And that, too, sounds the same, as I will sync what I’m playing to A/B. I have always been blessed with non audiophile ears. You might not have "audiophile ears" but you sure have common sense! |
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KeithL
Administrator
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Post by KeithL on Jun 15, 2023 11:55:46 GMT -5
Agreed.... Too many audiophiles lately seem to have developed a habit of spending a lot of money for gear that sounds better to other people... (Which really isn't, or shouldn't be, the point of the whole exercise.  ) The DACs in my three components, to me, sound the same. I listen to lossless streaming and CDs. And that, too, sounds the same, as I will sync what I’m playing to A/B. I have always been blessed with non audiophile ears. You might not have "audiophile ears" but you sure have common sense! |
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