XDA-2 Gen 2 - No sound after cold power on

[bigfreaky]

Hi Folks,

I'm a happy owner of a few Emotiva DACs and amplifiers and preamps.

I'm having some issues with one of my DACs, the XDA-2 Gen2.
I love the sound of this DAC, but I'm having the same issue as described on this threads:

emotivalounge.proboards.com/thread/36995/xda-2-stuck-relay-problem
emotivalounge.proboards.com/thread/28977/xda-2-problems

When turning on the DAC from a cold start, I can't get any sound, even if the DAC is properly showing the sampling rate.
I can get sound when I simply put it in stand by and turn in on again.

That works every single time.

But I'm getting frustraded about not having the DAC working from its first startup.

I don't think this is related to the relay, I can hear it clicking when I turn on the DAC. Also, the relay seems to be operating fine when I connect and disconnect the headphone. I can hear the clicks even when it's not producing the sound from the first start.

Is there any way to solve this? I know this is an discontinued DAC and out of warranty, but the DAC looks to be working fine out of this annoying issue.

Tagging the DAC expert here: KeithL

Thanks!

[ttocs]

Have you tried the remote trick posted in the second post of the first link? Buttons on remotes do get stuck over time, so taking the remote out of the equation should be considered as one part of a problem solving routine. Rule out as many suspects as possible.

When it's first started up, is it not playing sound through speakers or headphones, or either?
What is the input when it doesn't play upon first startup?

[bigfreaky]

Sept 19, 2024 18:33:35 GMT -5 ttocs said:

Have you tried the remote trick posted in the second post of the first link? Buttons on remotes do get stuck over time, so taking the remote out of the equation should be considered as one part of a problem solving routine. Rule out as many suspects as possible.

When it's first started up, is it not playing sound through speakers or headphones, or either?
What is the input when it doesn't play upon first startup?

Hi there, I'm not even using the remote at all. I'm only using the front face buttons in the DAC.

Is not playing sound on either, speakers and headphones. Only works when I turn off (stand by) and on again.

The input is Optical 1. I already tried to move to Coax 1 and the problem persists.

I'm not sure the input could be the issue, since the dac is properly showing the correct sampling rate in the display.

Also, I tried different sources, and the problem is the same.

[KeithL]

I do have a few ideas... but they're all sort of just guesses...

1.
When you plug in the headphones I believe it actuates a switch that tells the unit to switch the output to the headphones.
That switch could be stuck...
So try plugging and unplugging the headphones a few times (that could unstick it).

2.
You CAN have "a remote control problem" even if you don't use the remote.
If something in the room is making infrared noise, it can be picked up by the IR sensor in the unit, and may be INTERPRETED as coming from the remote control.
If this happens it can confuse the main control processor and cause odd things to happen.
The most common causes of this would be sunlight, light from a compact fluorescent or LED bulb (or LED light strip), or light from a TV screen...
The easiest way to rule this out is to try the unit in another room... or simply turn it around so that the front panel is facing in a different direction.

3.
Other than that it could be that something inside the unit "takes a split second to catch"...
(And so "misses the catch the first time around when you turn it on".)
However, if that happens, it could be several things, and would require some actual troubleshooting inside to pin down.

Note that the display of the sample rate is generated by circuitry before the DAC chip itself...
(So it proves that the unit is "seeing the input" but not exactly how far that signal is getting.)

Sept 20, 2024 3:31:18 GMT -5 bigfreaky said:

Sept 19, 2024 18:33:35 GMT -5 ttocs said:

Have you tried the remote trick posted in the second post of the first link? Buttons on remotes do get stuck over time, so taking the remote out of the equation should be considered as one part of a problem solving routine. Rule out as many suspects as possible.

When it's first started up, is it not playing sound through speakers or headphones, or either?
What is the input when it doesn't play upon first startup?

Hi there, I'm not even using the remote at all. I'm only using the front face buttons in the DAC.

Is not playing sound on either, speakers and headphones. Only works when I turn off (stand by) and on again.

The input is Optical 1. I already tried to move to Coax 1 and the problem persists.

I'm not sure the input could be the issue, since the dac is properly showing the correct sampling rate in the display.

Also, I tried different sources, and the problem is the same.

[bigfreaky]

Sept 20, 2024 9:28:19 GMT -5 KeithL said:

I do have a few ideas... but they're all sort of just guesses...

1.
When you plug in the headphones I believe it actuates a switch that tells the unit to switch the output to the headphones.
That switch could be stuck...
So try plugging and unplugging the headphones a few times (that could unstick it).

2.
You CAN have "a remote control problem" even if you don't use the remote.
If something in the room is making infrared noise, it can be picked up by the IR sensor in the unit, and may be INTERPRETED as coming from the remote control.
If this happens it can confuse the main control processor and cause odd things to happen.
The most common causes of this would be sunlight, light from a compact fluorescent or LED bulb (or LED light strip), or light from a TV screen...
The easiest way to rule this out is to try the unit in another room... or simply turn it around so that the front panel is facing in a different direction.

3.
Other than that it could be that something inside the unit "takes a split second to catch"...
(And so "misses the catch the first time around when you turn it on".)
However, if that happens, it could be several things, and would require some actual troubleshooting inside to pin down.

Note that the display of the sample rate is generated by circuitry before the DAC chip itself...
(So it proves that the unit is "seeing the input" but not exactly how far that signal is getting.)

Sept 20, 2024 3:31:18 GMT -5 bigfreaky said:

Hi there, I'm not even using the remote at all. I'm only using the front face buttons in the DAC.

Is not playing sound on either, speakers and headphones. Only works when I turn off (stand by) and on again.

The input is Optical 1. I already tried to move to Coax 1 and the problem persists.

I'm not sure the input could be the issue, since the dac is properly showing the correct sampling rate in the display.

Also, I tried different sources, and the problem is the same.

Thanks for the inputs Keith, 

1. I can hear the relay clicks. When the sound is not working, even if I plug and unplug multiple times, I won't get sound until I reboot the unit. It doesn't seems to me that the relay is a problem, if that was the case, I probably would see situations were the unit would work in a first attempt, which never happens. Or situations that the unit is not working on a second attempt, which is also not the case. The unit ALWAYS works after the the first attempt.

2. I already moved the unit around multiple places in my house. And right now I even taped the sensor to block any interference. The problem persists. Also, if any interference was the case, I don't think I'd have the unit working in every second attempt, right?


3. That's where I believe the problem lives. When I turn off the unit, it takes sometime until the next start shows the problem again. Probably some internal cap is holding that state for a while and them the unit is back on cold and the next start will show the issue. What sort of troubleshoot can I do here? I know that I'm way out of warranty, But I'm not sure if Emotiva would still have some old replacement boards at this point that I could have access to.

From the threads I linked, I looks like other users had the exact same problem, not sure if you have access on how these previous issues were addressed.

Thanks

[bigfreaky]

Sept 20, 2024 14:53:23 GMT -5 bigfreaky said:

Sept 20, 2024 9:28:19 GMT -5 KeithL said:

I do have a few ideas... but they're all sort of just guesses...

1.
When you plug in the headphones I believe it actuates a switch that tells the unit to switch the output to the headphones.
That switch could be stuck...
So try plugging and unplugging the headphones a few times (that could unstick it).

2.
You CAN have "a remote control problem" even if you don't use the remote.
If something in the room is making infrared noise, it can be picked up by the IR sensor in the unit, and may be INTERPRETED as coming from the remote control.
If this happens it can confuse the main control processor and cause odd things to happen.
The most common causes of this would be sunlight, light from a compact fluorescent or LED bulb (or LED light strip), or light from a TV screen...
The easiest way to rule this out is to try the unit in another room... or simply turn it around so that the front panel is facing in a different direction.

3.
Other than that it could be that something inside the unit "takes a split second to catch"...
(And so "misses the catch the first time around when you turn it on".)
However, if that happens, it could be several things, and would require some actual troubleshooting inside to pin down.

Note that the display of the sample rate is generated by circuitry before the DAC chip itself...
(So it proves that the unit is "seeing the input" but not exactly how far that signal is getting.)

Thanks for the inputs Keith, 

1. I can hear the relay clicks. When the sound is not working, even if I plug and unplug multiple times, I won't get sound until I reboot the unit. It doesn't seems to me that the relay is a problem, if that was the case, I probably would see situations were the unit would work in a first attempt, which never happens. Or situations that the unit is not working on a second attempt, which is also not the case. The unit ALWAYS works after the the first attempt.

2. I already moved the unit around multiple places in my house. And right now I even taped the sensor to block any interference. The problem persists. Also, if any interference was the case, I don't think I'd have the unit working in every second attempt, right?


3. That's where I believe the problem lives. When I turn off the unit, it takes sometime until the next start shows the problem again. Probably some internal cap is holding that state for a while and them the unit is back on cold and the next start will show the issue. What sort of troubleshoot can I do here? I know that I'm way out of warranty, But I'm not sure if Emotiva would still have some old replacement boards at this point that I could have access to.

From the threads I linked, I looks like other users had the exact same problem, not sure if you have access on how these previous issues were addressed.

Thanks

KeithL

Here is a video I made about the issue: 
photos.app.goo.gl/Kw8fAKDGG3L3Hq1G9

[vcautokid]

Maybe I am missing something here. You said a "cold start". I am a bit dense here, but if you mean a cold start by using the power toggle switch in the back. I am curious why. If you are only using the front panel soft switch, like I think I would, you may resume your regularly scheduled program already in progress. I think you said you're only using the front panel switches, and not the remote necessarily. I never shut my DACs off completely and soft start them all the time. No issues. I have a few DACs and processors truth be told. All fly in standby mode when not in use.

I think the muting threshold is a bit wonky here. If you see the sample rate and bit rate don't remember if an XDA 2 does both. Then the communication handshake is good. It knows what to play. I am not going to say what parts it might need. Don't know. This is at the end of the day a network connection. Yeah I said the N word. You say it doesn't it matter the source. Is this a recent issue? Or has it been doing this
since day one. Just curious.

[bigfreaky]

Sept 21, 2024 7:01:21 GMT -5 vcautokid said:

Maybe I am missing something here. You said a "cold start". I am a bit dense here, but if you mean a cold start by using the power toggle switch in the back. I am curious why. If you are only using the front panel soft switch, like I think I would, you may resume your regularly scheduled program already in progress. I think you said you're only using the front panel switches, and not the remote necessarily. I never shut my DACs off completely and soft start them all the time. No issues. I have a few DACs and processors truth be told. All fly in standby mode when not in use.

I think the muting threshold is a bit wonky here. If you see the sample rate and bit rate don't remember if an XDA 2 does both. Then the communication handshake is good. It knows what to play. I am not going to say what parts it might need. Don't know. This is at the end of the day a network connection. Yeah I said the N word. You say it doesn't it matter the source. Is this a recent issue? Or has it been doing this
since day one. Just curious.

Hello Friend,

Cold start means enabling the DAC from a long period of inactivity.
By cold start I mean turning the DAC ON from any of these: front Standy by button, the back Power toggle and the trigger input. The problem is the same on any condition, first start will fail and a simple second start will always work.

Thanks