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Post by strindl on Nov 21, 2009 0:15:42 GMT -5
as is mine hooked to 4 ohm 90 db efficient speakers. Dead silence until the music starts.
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Post by truwarrior22 on Nov 21, 2009 12:56:59 GMT -5
Continueing on the forward sound, can't the EQ be adjusted to give the sound you want? I noticed that with my Denon 2808 before I ran Audyssey, the male vocals wasn't as forward, but appears to have better seperation in the instruments. After I ran Audyssey the sound was more forward, specially vocals...thoughts?
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Post by bourbonncigars on Nov 21, 2009 18:34:56 GMT -5
Continueing on the forward sound, can't the EQ be adjusted to give the sound you want? Moot point since he already said he returned it, however.... Adjusting the EQ (in this case) to get the sound he wanted is nothing more than putting an audio band-aid on an amp. If the man didn't feel the need to EQ anything with the Bryston, then EQ'ing the Emotiva amp simply means he'd be compromising when he shouldn't have to. I seriously doubt anyone at Emotiva will look you in the eyes and say "We make the best sounding amplifiers.....period". I see absolutely no problem with someone posting about liking another amplifier (Especially a Bryston, which I've heard) more than an Emotiva amp on Emo's own website. Same goes for any piece of equipment. Many folks these days have limited means when it comes to actually auditioning equipment. Take me, for instance. I've lost nearly every dealer within a 3 hour radius in just the last couple of years, no doubt due to the economy and the internet. I have NO way of auditioning anything, and I find every single tidbit of information and user reviews to be extremely helpful. Having said that, I've owned two XPA-5s and thought they sounded great for home theater. Seriously considering ordering another one. I just think it's ludicrous to not fully understand how someone could like another amp more than an Emotiva amp. Too many forums get hung up on gushing over the equipment they own, while simultaneously forgetting there are superior products out there (albeit, usually more expensive) from other manufactures.
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Post by soulrider4ever on Dec 8, 2009 23:48:21 GMT -5
^^ Key word being price, the Bryston amp mentioned here was $2400 new in 1999 (which would probably be more in today's market), vs. $700ish, plus, let us not forget about amp / speaker synergy - this amp was very well praised on stereophile with the B&W 805's - so clearly these 2 play together quite nicely.
At any rate, Bryston makes great amps. I don't think anyone doubts that, too bad about the balanced interconnect thing, mine does the same thing - and I'm thinking about switching back to unbalanced just to get rid of the hissing.
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Post by Raven on Dec 13, 2009 17:10:29 GMT -5
^^ Key word being price, the Bryston amp mentioned here was $2400 new in 1999 (which would probably be more in today's market), vs. $700ish, plus, let us not forget about amp / speaker synergy - this amp was very well praised on stereophile with the B&W 805's - so clearly these 2 play together quite nicely. At any rate, Bryston makes great amps. I don't think anyone doubts that, too bad about the balanced interconnect thing, mine does the same thing - and I'm thinking about switching back to unbalanced just to get rid of the hissing. I've tried switching from XLR to RCA - no hiss difference, only sound stage on lower volume shrink a bit. Surprisingly hiss almost disappear when I've disabled Audyssey EQ and brought all speakers levels back to zero dB. BTW my system sounds more natural without EQ
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Post by hifiman on Jan 4, 2010 13:01:55 GMT -5
I agree with crazymike, I have made the switch to Bryston 4B-St Much smoother, especially with a Conrad-Johnson preamp.. Canadian and American made are vastly superior, just shop around.....Chinese subcontracted audio is in a class of it's own....bad
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moookie1051
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Post by moookie1051 on Jan 4, 2010 13:59:15 GMT -5
I agree with crazymike, I have made the switch to Bryston 4B-St Much smoother, especially with a Conrad-Johnson preamp.. Canadian and American made are vastly superior, just shop around.....Chinese subcontracted audio is in a class of it's own....bad I guess it's time to get rid of most of my audio & video equipment. Can't in good faith ask money for any of it, 'cause it's mostly bad s**t. Guess I could just give it away,... but only to enemies. Wouldn't want any friends to have to listen/view bad s**t. Thank god I can keep my Mirage speakers, 'cause their Canadian. But soon I'll have nothing to power them with, and nothing to play anything on. WTF?
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Pauly
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Post by Pauly on Jan 4, 2010 14:50:42 GMT -5
I certainly would not call them "bad". Incredible performance per dollar, yes. You are comparing a few thousand dollar Bryston being run with a Conrad-Johnson preamp, to an 800 dollar amp? Might I just say...Duhhhhhhh! It's not because the Emo is in the "bad" class, it's because it's purely outclassed by much more expensive equipment in this case. They have never been accused of outperforming anything from Bryston. If you feel more comfortable spending that much more money on your gear, then fine, but I don't think it's very fair to Emo, to label them in the Bad Chinese subcontracted class. Because they certainly don't sound like it. The Emo stuff easily outperforms the majority of the receivers out there, and that is exactly what they were designed to do. Be an affordable way to get rid of your receiver, and step up to separates.
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Post by monkumonku on Jan 4, 2010 15:14:29 GMT -5
I agree with crazymike, I have made the switch to Bryston 4B-St Much smoother, especially with a Conrad-Johnson preamp.. Canadian and American made are vastly superior, just shop around.....Chinese subcontracted audio is in a class of it's own....bad I realize that the Chinese do not have as lengthy experience with audio equipment as in the U.S., but what necessarily makes them so bad? If the designs for everything come from the U.S. that they follow, why would it be any worse than making them here? Everyone talks about how low the quality is of American cars and wants to buy imported, so why would audio equipment be any different? Do you not think the same people who assemble cars are the same ones who might be assembling your amp? True, there is a lot of junk coming from China, but there is just as much junk made here in the U.S. of A., too.
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Post by Pauly on Jan 4, 2010 15:24:51 GMT -5
I know my DMR is the best sounding, most well built piece of gear that I've owned. A little better than my old Outlaw setup, which is made in the US I believe.
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Post by SDMonkey on Jan 4, 2010 16:27:31 GMT -5
When ever I hear this MADE IN THE USA is always better than designed and built in China, I have to laugh. Sure it's made in the USA but it's really more like assembled in the USA with parts from all over the world to include CHINA.
I found the review to be a contradiction of thoughts, the XPA was more musical and fun to listen to ( front row seat vs back row). The XPA did not have the details like the Bryston but the OP liked the vocals more. Blind test were done and set up by who? I personally think an RPA vs this Bryston would have been more of a comparison since the XPA's are more known for HT vs 2 channel.
"In my opinion he didn't describe any differences that would put the Bryston amp in a "different league" than the EMO amp..." +1
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Pauly
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Post by Pauly on Jan 4, 2010 16:32:29 GMT -5
Very true actually.
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Post by 0pter0n on Mar 1, 2010 17:56:05 GMT -5
At the risk of re-stating the obvious: I am unaware of anyone on these forums, including Emotiva staff, describing the Emotiva products as being in direct competition with Conrad-Johnson, Bryston, Dunleavy, etc.
What I think Emotiva delivers, especially in their amplifiers, is value. If crazymikie had to spend some time thinking about the sound before deciding that he preferred the Bryston, this is not a surprise and it speaks well of Emotiva that this was, apparently, a decision that required thought. I think we would all have been surprised if he said that he was throwing the Bryston in the trash in order to keep the Emotiva. There is no shame for anyone in his decision.
On the other hand, I don't know what to make of "Canadian and American made are vastly superior, just shop around.....Chinese subcontracted audio is in a class of it's own....bad "
I frankly doubt that the writer is in a position to make such a generalization without falling into his own trap. Spend enough and, chances are, you can get something better no matter where it is made.
Frankly, I believe that comparisions among supposed equals are valuable. When one side is ostensibly superior (and charges accordingly), it can be interesting to see what people think, but not nearly as helpful for the typical person who works within a budget.
To borrow from another sphere, I don't need someone to tell me that his Infinity out-performs my RSX, any more than he wants to hear that his Infinity doesn't make it next to a Ferrari.
'Nuff said - back to the real world.
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Post by monkumonku on Mar 1, 2010 18:13:44 GMT -5
At the risk of re-stating the obvious: I am unaware of anyone on these forums, including Emotiva staff, describing the Emotiva products as being in direct competition with Conrad-Johnson, Bryston, Dunleavy, etc. What I think Emotiva delivers, especially in their amplifiers, is value. If crazymikie had to spend some time thinking about the sound before deciding that he preferred the Bryston, this is not a surprise and it speaks well of Emotiva that this was, apparently, a decision that required thought. I think we would all have been surprised if he said that he was throwing the Bryston in the trash in order to keep the Emotiva. There is no shame for anyone in his decision. On the other hand, I don't know what to make of "Canadian and American made are vastly superior, just shop around.....Chinese subcontracted audio is in a class of it's own....bad " I frankly doubt that the writer is in a position to make such a generalization without falling into his own trap. Spend enough and, chances are, you can get something better no matter where it is made. Frankly, I believe that comparisions among supposed equals are valuable. When one side is ostensibly superior (and charges accordingly), it can be interesting to see what people think, but not nearly as helpful for the typical person who works within a budget. To borrow from another sphere, I don't need someone to tell me that his Infinity out-performs my RSX, any more than he wants to hear that his Infinity doesn't make it next to a Ferrari. 'Nuff said - back to the real world. I think the best thing to do would be a side-by-side A/B blind comparison between two amps, making sure the volumes were adjusted to be equal and using the same preamps, cables, source material, etc. When blindfolded, and with someone doing the switching between the two, at times keeping it on the same amp during the "switch," how many people from an original group of 100 who, non-blindfolded can hear a difference between the amps, would then be able to consistently identify which amp was which when blindfolded? I bet the number would decrease drastically when you take the psychological factor out of it.
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Post by Porscheguy on Mar 5, 2010 7:07:08 GMT -5
Audio is such a perception sometimes. Spend enough (especially on American or Canadian) brands and you will convince yourself that they are better - even though they might not be. Good boards, capacitors, transformers and the like are all available worldwide and I'm not so easily convinced that just because they are assembled here that they are better.
One thing for sure, the cost of manufacturing here is much more expensive than in China. Labor costs alone are 10-15 times higher here.
And when you are small high end audio company like Bryston, Krell, MacIntosh, Theta - you pick it, a lot of their pricing is driven by the need to make much bigger margins as their volumes are so low.
You are not necessarily getting better quality but you sure are paying a lot more. And if it's a product sold through a dealer network, they add even more margin.
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Post by ny1pr2009 on Mar 5, 2010 16:54:40 GMT -5
Well Guys, just because something is made overseas(specially in China) does not necessarily means that is lower quality.
Take for example the Stereophile Class A rated Parasound Halo JC1 Monoblocks. Outstanding Monoblocks. I know this because I used to own a pair for almost 3 years. I purchased mine used in mint condition from the original owner on Audiogon for $3800 back in 2005.
I bought them used because at the time these amps were costing $7000 a pair new and the best you were able to get them from an Authorized dealer was for maybe 10% off so if you could get them new for $6300 you were doing good.
And in order for you to get the 10 years warranty you have to get them from an authorized dealer and you had to be the original owner because the warranty is not transferable.
Now many people have no idea that these amps are made in Taiwan and not in San Francisco California as it says at the back of each amplifier.
I was reading an article in the internet one time about the Parasound Halo A21. Great two channel amplifier and if you can get one used for $1400 in mint condition you will see that they do not last long at that price. On the article that I was reading about the A21 it was explaining how the cost of making that amp was so low compare to the MSRP of $2000 at the time(now is $2400). Because of the amp being made in Taiwan the actual cost to Parasound for making that amp was only $380. Yes my Emotiva peers, just like you read only around $400 to make the A21.
However here in the States if we are able to get that amp new for $1900 from an authorized dealer you will be consider making a steal because remember that the dealers usually get around 35 to 40% of the MSRP from the manufacturer. So I am going to let you do the math. As you can see the one that pays the price is Us the customers.
The point that I am trying to make is, if Parasound was selling their A21 for lets say $500 anyone of us will think that the A21 is a piece of S%$# amp. Just because of the price. Now at $2400 well now we are talking!! It must be good to cost that much and if we can get it for even $1800 wow we are making a steal.
This my Emotiva peers is the mentality of many audiophiles. Trust me when I tell you that I used to owned the A21 and it is a great amp. No doubt about it, but I can also tell you that I will put the Emotiva XPA-2 against the A21 head on toe to toe and it will offer you the same perfomance and sound and perhaps even better sound that the A21 for way much less than the A21.
I am not knocking down any amplifier because at the end it is up to the listener to decide what is really the best amplifier to their ears. All I am saying is that dont think that because an amplifier is made in China or any other part of the world it is of lower quality and performance compare to the so call "high ends" made here or so called "made in the US".
Regards to all,
Carlos
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Post by Porscheguy on Mar 5, 2010 18:30:34 GMT -5
Well Guys, just because something is made overseas(specially in China) does not necessarily means that is lower quality. Take for example the Stereophile Class A rated Parasound Halo JC1 Monoblocks. Outstanding Monoblocks. I know this because I used to own a pair for almost 3 years. I purchased mine used in mint condition from the original owner on Audiogon for $3800 back in 2005. I bought them used because at the time these amps were costing $7000 a pair new and the best you were able to get them from an Authorized dealer was for maybe 10% off so if you could get them new for $6300 you were doing good. And in order for you to get the 10 years warranty you have to get them from an authorized dealer and you had to be the original owner because the warranty is not transferable. Now many people have no idea that these amps are made in Taiwan and not in San Francisco California as it says at the back of each amplifier. I was reading an article in the internet one time about the Parasound Halo A21. Great two channel amplifier and if you can get one used for $1400 in mint condition you will see that they do not last long at that price. On the article that I was reading about the A21 it was explaining how the cost of making that amp was so low compare to the MSRP of $2000 at the time(now is $2400). Because of the amp being made in Taiwan the actual cost to Parasound for making that amp was only $380. Yes my Emotiva peers, just like you read only around $400 to make the A21. However here in the States if we are able to get that amp new for $1900 from an authorized dealer you will be consider making a steal because remember that the dealers usually get around 35 to 40% of the MSRP from the manufacturer. So I am going to let you do the math. As you can see the one that pays the price is Us the customers. The point that I am trying to make is, if Parasound was selling their A21 for lets say $500 anyone of us will think that the A21 is a piece of S%$# amp. Just because of the price. Now at $2400 well now we are talking!! It must be good to cost that much and if we can get it for even $1800 wow we are making a steal. This my Emotiva peers is the mentality of many audiophiles. Trust me when I tell you that I used to owned the A21 and it is a great amp. No doubt about it, but I can also tell you that I will put the Emotiva XPA-2 against the A21 head on toe to toe and it will offer you the same perfomance and sound and perhaps even better sound that the A21 for way much less than the A21. I am not knocking down any amplifier because at the end it is up to the listener to decide what is really the best amplifier to their ears. All I am saying is that dont think that because an amplifier is made in China or any other part of the world it is of lower quality and performance compare to the so call "high ends" made here or so called "made in the US". Regards to all, Carlos + 1,000,000,000
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Post by wowfactor on Mar 5, 2010 23:06:47 GMT -5
+++++++++++ Makes you think doesn't it!
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Mar 6, 2010 9:30:24 GMT -5
Well Guys, just because something is made overseas(specially in China) does not necessarily means that is lower quality. Take for example the Stereophile Class A rated Parasound Halo JC1 Monoblocks. Outstanding Monoblocks. I know this because I used to own a pair for almost 3 years. I purchased mine used in mint condition from the original owner on Audiogon for $3800 back in 2005. I bought them used because at the time these amps were costing $7000 a pair new and the best you were able to get them from an Authorized dealer was for maybe 10% off so if you could get them new for $6300 you were doing good. And in order for you to get the 10 years warranty you have to get them from an authorized dealer and you had to be the original owner because the warranty is not transferable. Now many people have no idea that these amps are made in Taiwan and not in San Francisco California as it says at the back of each amplifier. I was reading an article in the internet one time about the Parasound Halo A21. Great two channel amplifier and if you can get one used for $1400 in mint condition you will see that they do not last long at that price. On the article that I was reading about the A21 it was explaining how the cost of making that amp was so low compare to the MSRP of $2000 at the time(now is $2400). Because of the amp being made in Taiwan the actual cost to Parasound for making that amp was only $380. Yes my Emotiva peers, just like you read only around $400 to make the A21. However here in the States if we are able to get that amp new for $1900 from an authorized dealer you will be consider making a steal because remember that the dealers usually get around 35 to 40% of the MSRP from the manufacturer. So I am going to let you do the math. As you can see the one that pays the price is Us the customers. The point that I am trying to make is, if Parasound was selling their A21 for lets say $500 anyone of us will think that the A21 is a piece of S%$# amp. Just because of the price. Now at $2400 well now we are talking!! It must be good to cost that much and if we can get it for even $1800 wow we are making a steal. This my Emotiva peers is the mentality of many audiophiles. Trust me when I tell you that I used to owned the A21 and it is a great amp. No doubt about it, but I can also tell you that I will put the Emotiva XPA-2 against the A21 head on toe to toe and it will offer you the same perfomance and sound and perhaps even better sound that the A21 for way much less than the A21. I am not knocking down any amplifier because at the end it is up to the listener to decide what is really the best amplifier to their ears. All I am saying is that dont think that because an amplifier is made in China or any other part of the world it is of lower quality and performance compare to the so call "high ends" made here or so called "made in the US". Regards to all, Carlos
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