Buying speakers online... a bad idea??

[moookie1051]

I used to like this guy , and respect his opinions, but I can't agree with this article in toto.

news.cnet.com/8301-13645_3-10372574-47.html?tag=nl.e702

[reaganastrology]

In 2009 many people do not have access to a decent hi-end audio store. They have closed and been replaced with Best Buy.

I don't lament the demise of such stores. The priggish atmosphere, the outrageous prices, the smarmy M.I.T. wanna-be salesman full of ego and commission. Plus I always felt in-store auditions were overrated. The speakers always sound different from the store to your personal room.

Buying online is a valid option for many. Myself included.
I'm the market for some speakers right now. Does anyone know a respectable retailer who sells Magnepan online?

[Deleted]

He directly and indirectly works for the industry and I mean the audio/HT dealers industry. The new online direct to buyer dealers are shaking up the industry. If you don't think so look at all the subwoofer companies popping up in the last few years. They are riding the coattails of the some of the pioneers like HSU and SVS just to name several. However, just because they sell online and cheaper does not make them better. I recently went online to check on a sub that someone had mentioned right here in River City. No matter how hard I looked I could not find any specifications on the particular sub, just a product page that said how great it was.

So there are those that do it right like Emotiva, Oppo (no speakers), SVS, HSU, and many others. There are those that do it wrong, I won't mention any names.

That said I strongly disagree about having to listen to a speaker in a dealers demo room before buying. Much more important is listening to it in my own room and then being able to return it, no questions asked (try the no questions asked part at your local dealer's). I have in the past and was harassed with how could I be so deaf when all their other customers loved the sound and they would give me an in store credit but no refund, etc.

The secret to buying a speaker online is patience and how to read reviews. In the last 9 years I have bought four 5.1 systems online and have been each time very pleased. Only one of these was also available at the local dealer who would not give me the custom setup I wished (I wanted two complete 5.1 sets with all 5 speakers the same without the dedicated center speaker). It was a simple matter of a special order form the warehouse. The local dealer didn't have time to mess with it but the online dealer did. Who gave the best customer service?

The secret is to read all the pro reviews and the owner review (all with many grains of salt). Sometimes you cannot get a review on the exact model you are considering. for example, if you were looking at the Emotiva ERM-6.2 speakers you would find that there are no pro reviews. Too bad? No, wait a minute! Notice there is a review on the slightly smaller ERM-1 at Audioholics. The only difference is a slightly larger cabinet and 2ea 6.5 mid/woofers versus 2ea 5.25 mid/woofers, everything else is identical. You can almost perfectly predict how the 6.2 will sound compared to the ERM-1. The Audioholics review on the ERM-1 is exactly how I would have predicted it would sound based on the info I already knew about the ERM-1 before I read the review. Very heavy for its size, designed with help from Vance Dickason, heat sink cooled silk dome tweeter and the same tweeter as used in its top of the line speaker, two tri fiber (para-aramid...similar to Kevlar) 5.25 mid/woofer drivers, tweeter and room boundary switches, 4 ohm impedance, very high power handling, etc. These are the marks of a top quality smaller bookshelf speaker.

I spent many, many hours researching the Emo speakers before I bought one to test out and then bought the other four. They sounded almost exactly like I expected. The reason I say almost is that they in fact exceeded my expectations, I'm still amazed!

One my ask how I have all that time to spend on the internet doing research. I have lots of it by not getting in my car and driving all over the Seattle area to listen to speakers at the small handful of decent dealers.

I bought a sub three years ago. I spent well over a hundred hours researching and narrowing down my choices. One of the sub choices from my online studying was a local dealer only sub. I immediately eliminated it without ever hearing it because the front protective grill was so ugly, neither my wife or I would accept it in our room. (it was a great M&K sub with the most ugly/industrial looking metal grill I have ever seen). We even ordered some grill cloth from SVS for one of their water heater subs before we eliminated it (glitzy looking velvet type cloth). I read reviews on sub models near the model I was interested in and learned a lot about that brand's subs performance.

So my advice is to spend some time reading about any speaker or sub that catches your interest and then check it out as thoroughly as you can in reviews, pro and user before checking it out in your own home. Almost all speakers and subs will sound substantially different in your home than in the dealer's room, that is the nature of room acoustics. There are certain sound characteristics you can listen for, but you must have lots of experience to know exactly what to listen for. Study up on and understand the relationship of speaker impedance, power handling and speaker sensitivity (also called efficiency). How much a speaker weighs versus other speakers of the same size is usually a big tip off to build quality. If you have space or WAF problems then the small mini subs or medium size ones are OK. Otherwise, the larger subs usually go lower, louder and deeper. Driver size is not necessarily a definitive factor unless it also has a larger enclosure. In other words, I'll usually take the 12' driver sub versus the 15" driver sub if the enclosure is the same size. Ported and sealed sub can both be outstanding.

Be aware of reviews that say that a certain speaker or sub is the greatest product on the planet and blows everything else away. I see lots of sub companies out there that are new and seem to be lacking substance. Big boxes with big drivers and low prices and very little back up information.

Good luck. ;D (did I get carried away?.....what else do us old retirees have to do with our time?) ;D

[scottl]

"buying hi-fi without listening to it is a bad idea." Hmm. True, if:
a) You can't get at least 90% of your investment back, quickly and easily, if you decide the gear doesn't work for you.
or
b) You haven't listened to enough gear to understand, realistically, the value you're getting vs. the competition.
or
c) You need plenty of help to make your purchase perform up to it's potential.

Definitely not true in all instances, though.

"The better brick-and-mortar dealers provide service and hands-on help that online sites can't." This one's thorny, but it's false in the end. Online sites certainly can provide stunning levels of personal, responsive service, but it's not the norm - just as it is not the norm among brick-and-mortar retailers. You can't carry your gear in to a website, but you can't get an answer from tech support at 2AM at most retailer.

"Using a brick-and-mortar dealer to figure out what you want and then buying it online is downright unfair." True, if:
a) they carry the product you want.
and
b) their price is reasonable (higher than the web is not inherently unreasonable).

It's also rude.

On the whole, the article is definitely one-sided; Guttenberg seems to assume that price is the only reason people buy online.

I'd much rather work with a dealer I know and can visit, and be able to arrange in-home auditions for big purchases. I know that working with this stuff all day can give you really valuable insights, and a dealer who knows me can be a big help. If only they were easier to come by!

[orange5814]

Chuckienut is %100 right on... There are some great on-line speaker retailers. Axiom, SVS, HSU, Elemental Design, Emotiva, and Aperion are all good companies that sell some terrific products. Additionally, the have some really great policies about returning their gear if you are not totally satisfied. I have had a couple of ED subs and I have been really happy with the results. Besides, where is a better place to demo equipment than your own room.

[tchaik]

reaganastrology and chuckienut are absolutely right!

i do not miss the arrogance of "high End" stores. i can audition in my living room all that i need to in less than 30 days and figure out if the product is right for me.

certainly emo leads the way in a new era of high end audio experience and for some of us, online purchases will be our only option.

for me, i am glad i discovered a new way to pursue my passion.

tchaik.......................

[casey01]

When it comes to the current crop of online retailers, everything that has been said about the advantages of buying from them is dead on the money. Also as we have all found out, aside from the quality of the products, service and warranties, in my opinion, the most profound thing about these companies is their immense knowledge which is about eighteen levels above the vast majority of anyone in retail outlets, regardless of the type of product they sell. As time has gone on, I have found dealing with many of these retailers an exercise in frustration simply because they sold so many brands and as the electronics gets more complicated, they aren't taking the time to learn and be able to impart reasonably intelligent information about the very equipment they sell!

I found out far more about HDMI connections and their interaction with different manufacturers AVR/Pre-Pros from the people at Oppo than I could ever determine from ANY of the stores that I have done business with in the past.

[SteveB]

Steve Guttenberg apparently hasn't tried any of Emotiva's products........

[monkumonku]

I sure find nothing wrong with buying speakers from an ID company. Of course you need to do your due diligence, such as looking at whatever reviews you can find, and being clear about the trial and return policy but once you find a speaker that seems good on paper, what is wrong with taking the chance to see how it sounds in your listening environment? That's the key - you have to listen to them in their final destination, not a dealer's showroom.

Some companies will even pay the return freight if you don't like the speakers. Emo doesn't, but I think that is fine - that's just the cost you pay to audition the speakers delivered to your own home and I think it's reasonable. It's probably a lower cost than the hassle you might get when you try to return speakers to the brick and mortar store and either get the 3rd degree under a heatlamp or else be told you can get store credit but not a refund. I remember a local factory-direct company out in So Cal called Rogersound Labs. They used to advertise a money-back guarantee if you didn't like their speakers, no questions asked. My friend and I went to hear them and they sounded great, so he bought a pair. We took them back to his place and listened.. and were very disappointed because they sounded so different. He took them back and although he received a refund, it didn't come without a big hassle with the people at the store despite what their ads said.

The way I look at it, if you get the speakers and like them, then what more could you ask for? That's the main criteria, right? I love my Emo speakers. I think maybe I could find something better but I wouldn't be able to afford them! Then there are always going to be those people that second guess themselves no matter what speakers they buy, and will never be completely happy. It doesn't matter where they buy them, online or in the store.

Anyway, I believe the ID model is a good one. If it wasn't, there wouldn't be so much success for companies like Emotiva, Ascend, Hsu, Oppo, etc. In fact, you have to make a BETTER product because people are taking a leap of faith to buy it without trying it in a showroom (even though trying in a showroom is under much less than ideal conditions).