|
Post by cipher on Nov 15, 2009 14:37:10 GMT -5
I'm researching equipment for my HT and I've been considering the speakers offered by Emotiva. However, I have a few questions as this is my first true surround speaker purchase.
1) If I decide to go with a 7.1 setup, rather than 5.1, does this mean I'm best off ordering 4 ERD-1's? It sounds logical, but I guess I'm wondering if the extra 2 channels are usually the same speaker type as the surrounds from a 5.1 setup.
2) If you are using the ERT 8.3 for the front Left and Right, are there any advantages to getting another ERT 8.3 for the center rather than the ERM 6.3? If it helps, my HT room dimension are going to be around 15x20.
Thanks
|
|
|
Post by Nemesis.ie on Nov 15, 2009 15:13:37 GMT -5
I think for side/rear you don't need them the same size/quality as the fronts, just tone-matched. The ERDs are matched to the others in the range and IME blend seamlessly.
They are a STEAL at the current price so I think for 7.1 (you are not going for 11.3? <G>) I think 4x of them would be perfect.
I personally believe the only advantage of the 8.3 is if you are not using a (good) sub.
If you can mount the 6.3s or put them on stands (or maybe even 6.2 for L/R to keep the price down even more) that is the way to go for HT in particular, spend the savings on a sub or indeed (s) or better ones or better amps.
|
|
|
Post by flamingeye on Nov 15, 2009 16:04:59 GMT -5
[quote author=nemes
I personally believe the only advantage of the 8.3 is if you are not using a (good) sub.
.[/quote]I used to think like that till I got a good set of towers and a good sub
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Nov 15, 2009 17:35:42 GMT -5
1) If I decide to go with a 7.1 setup, rather than 5.1, does this mean I'm best off ordering 4 ERD-1's? It sounds logical, but I guess I'm wondering if the extra 2 channels are usually the same speaker type as the surrounds from a 5.1 setup. 2) If you are using the ERT 8.3 for the front Left and Right, are there any advantages to getting another ERT 8.3 for the center rather than the ERM 6.3? If it helps, my HT room dimension are going to be around 15x20. Thanks Cipher Welcome to the Emotiva Lounge. 1) Yes, If you do go 7.1, then 4 ERD-1's is the only way to go. All four surround speakers should be the exact same speaker. However, with you room dimensions I would consider going with 5.1 only unless some of your seats are behind the main seats. in other words usually 7.1 is an advantage only if your room is long. Normally the 2 surround speakers are to the side walls, several feet higher than the seating position and slightly behind the seating position and the rear surround speakers would be on the rear wall. Going 5.1 versus 7.1 saves you the cost of two speakers and two amplifier channels. 2) In the perfect HT system all three front speakers, L, C and R are all the exact same speaker in the exact same orientation (vertical). However, this is almost never practical in a HT room and the center speaker is usually set over on its side. That is why the 6.3 and 6.2 and not the 8.3 are designed to be placed either in the vertical or horizontal orientation. In your system, unless your screen is higher than the height of the 8.3 then the 6.3 in the horizontal position is the correct center speaker to match the L and R 8.3. If for some reason your screen is very high (usually hard on the viewer's neck) and there is room for the 8.3 to be positioned vertically then yes it would be the perfect center channel since all three speakers would be identical and give the ultimate prefectly matched sound characteristics across the LCR front soundstage.
|
|
|
Post by bfisher on Nov 15, 2009 19:59:34 GMT -5
I agree with the others - I'd pick 3 of the same speaker for the front LCR, and def use ERD-1s for surrounds.
However I disagree that there is little value in 7.1. We went this route and have been very happy. It's a more enveloping soundstage and gives you awesome immersion. I did A/B test on 5.1 vs 7.1 several times once finished and wife and I agree - 7.1 is better. Not many movies are 7.1 natively... but with most processors you can get 7.1.
|
|
|
Post by Nemesis.ie on Nov 16, 2009 8:50:40 GMT -5
And indeed the same can be said for additional front channels yet it seems to get a bad press. Per the OP 3 x 8.3 would work well with an AT screen too of course, without any neck strain.
|
|
|
Post by cipher on Nov 16, 2009 22:10:08 GMT -5
Thanks everyone for the great replies.
I already decided a while back to get Emotiva amps so now I've been looking at which speakers to buy before making my purchases. The HT is fairly flexible in design at the moment, and I've been thinking about a AT screen, so it sounds like a 8.3 for the center would be best in this setup.
The only thing holding me back at the moment is that since I've chosen the PB-Ultra13 sub I was also considering a matching set of MTS speakers from SVS. Both Emotiva and SVS come in around 4k for their speaker sets so it's just a matter of which speakers will match better to the the SVS sub and Emotiva amps.
So many decisions, and with the recent sale, I even started to consider their mono-blocks rather than their 2 & 3 channel amps. Although, I must resist or I'm sure the gf will start looking at equivalently priced bags/shoes. Why can't they be more sensible! ;D
Thanks again
|
|
Animo
Emo VIPs
Gotta Love Me!!
Posts: 2,662
|
Post by Animo on Nov 16, 2009 23:07:58 GMT -5
cipher,
I have a slightly smaller room, coming in at 17x12x7. I have home made, full range main speakers, an ERM-6.3 center, and 4 ERD-1 surrounds. I also have a Dual 13 inch sealed subwoofer that I built from a kit by Elemental Designs.
First of all......I don't think you will have any problems with the Emotiva speakers matching up with the SVS subwoofer. Secondly, I doubt if you will have any problems with 8.3s matching with 6.3s and the ERD surrounds. They were of course designed to be able to do this. Ideally, as mentioned before, would be to have 3 identical speakers for your L/C/R, but I wouldn't worry to much about using a 6.3 for your center. Personally, I think the 6.3 would give you better midrange performance, which is exactly what you want for a center, as it is usually dialogue, and it locks the voices to the screen very well. My EMO speakers voice and blend seamlessly with the rest of my system.
|
|
|
Post by strindl on Nov 17, 2009 2:28:12 GMT -5
I'm researching equipment for my HT and I've been considering the speakers offered by Emotiva. However, I have a few questions as this is my first true surround speaker purchase. 1) If I decide to go with a 7.1 setup, rather than 5.1, does this mean I'm best off ordering 4 ERD-1's? It sounds logical, but I guess I'm wondering if the extra 2 channels are usually the same speaker type as the surrounds from a 5.1 setup. 2) If you are using the ERT 8.3 for the front Left and Right, are there any advantages to getting another ERT 8.3 for the center rather than the ERM 6.3? If it helps, my HT room dimension are going to be around 15x20. Thanks as others have already mentioned, you most definitely want to go with the 4 erd's for the surrounds. They are an exceptionally nice sounding speaker and their design is perfect for wall mounting as surrounds. The 8.3's are a great choice for your mains as well. I heard them at emofest and was suitably impressed. In the theater at emotiva headquarters, their sound system consists of an 8.3 for L&R , a 6.3 for the center channel, and 4 erd's for the surrounds. That sound knocked everyone's socks off. It didn't hurt that they were using three XPA-1's for the front three channels, and a pair of XPA-2's for the surrounds. The 6.3 may actually be a better choice for a center channel than the 8.3. It's certainly easier to place in the normal home theater .
|
|
ntrain42
Emo VIPs
Smoke me a kipper, I'll be home before breakfast!
Posts: 2,969
|
Post by ntrain42 on Nov 17, 2009 8:53:36 GMT -5
I'm researching equipment for my HT and I've been considering the speakers offered by Emotiva. However, I have a few questions as this is my first true surround speaker purchase. 1) If I decide to go with a 7.1 setup, rather than 5.1, does this mean I'm best off ordering 4 ERD-1's? It sounds logical, but I guess I'm wondering if the extra 2 channels are usually the same speaker type as the surrounds from a 5.1 setup. 2) If you are using the ERT 8.3 for the front Left and Right, are there any advantages to getting another ERT 8.3 for the center rather than the ERM 6.3? If it helps, my HT room dimension are going to be around 15x20. Thanks 1. Stay away from ERD's, dipole/bipole speakers are actually not recommended for stereo/dedicated surround channels using Dolby or DTS. Dipole/bipole speakers were popular back in the ProLogic days when the rear surrounds were mono mixed with minimal sound effects where these types of speakers helped to give a more immersive fill. Now with dedicated individual rear surround channels you want basic monitors or tower speakers that can deliver a solid point source between each of the surrounds and blend and move the image back and forth from the fronts to the rears and vice versa. 2. If you can afford another 8.3 then by all means do it, and that is regardless if you use a dedicated sub or not. The towers will give you full range sound and play more information with overall more detail through a wider spectrum of the audible sound frequency. Take a cymbol crash for instance. People in general think a cymbol crash or a tapping high hat is basically all upper frequencies focusing on the tweeter driver and upper midrange but its not. Many typical high frequency sounds actually start way down low around 20-40hz and LOWER. Its only for a split second but low frequency sub drivers are very important for proper high frequency extension and impact. I myself personally prefer to do full range monitors coupled with dedicated subwoofers for each channel, but for many the room or budget is not available. So doing full range towers is a good secondary option. But for a room your size I would consider another option. Since the room is medium sized, I'd run all 6.2 monitors for all channels, and run dedicated line level subs right below each channel speakers. 8.3's run what? $750, vs. $219 for a 6.2? Take the $500 saved for each speaker and buy a dedicated sub for the channel in question. Sound will be SIGNIFICANTLY better and more immersive if you have the room to go this route. I just recently did a 7.1 HT room for an old friend/client and he runs 7 identical monitors each with a dedicated sub in addition to 2 main subs run of the LFE/sub channel. The sound is phenominal, and it doubles as an equally impressive 2 channel stereo setup as well.
|
|
|
Post by jmilton on Nov 17, 2009 10:05:36 GMT -5
I'm researching equipment for my HT and I've been considering the speakers offered by Emotiva. However, I have a few questions as this is my first true surround speaker purchase. 1) If I decide to go with a 7.1 setup, rather than 5.1, does this mean I'm best off ordering 4 ERD-1's? It sounds logical, but I guess I'm wondering if the extra 2 channels are usually the same speaker type as the surrounds from a 5.1 setup. 2) If you are using the ERT 8.3 for the front Left and Right, are there any advantages to getting another ERT 8.3 for the center rather than the ERM 6.3? If it helps, my HT room dimension are going to be around 15x20. Thanks 1. Stay away from ERD's, dipole/bipole speakers are actually not recommended for stereo/dedicated surround channels using Dolby or DTS. Dipole/bipole speakers were popular back in the ProLogic days when the rear surrounds were mono mixed with minimal sound effects where these types of speakers helped to give a more immersive fill. Now with dedicated individual rear surround channels you want basic monitors or tower speakers that can deliver a solid point source between each of the surrounds and blend and move the image back and forth from the fronts to the rears and vice versa. 2. If you can afford another 8.3 then by all means do it, and that is regardless if you use a dedicated sub or not. The towers will give you full range sound and play more information with overall more detail through a wider spectrum of the audible sound frequency. Take a cymbol crash for instance. People in general think a cymbol crash or a tapping high hat is basically all upper frequencies focusing on the tweeter driver and upper midrange but its not. Many typical high frequency sounds actually start way down low around 20-40hz and LOWER. Its only for a split second but low frequency sub drivers are very important for proper high frequency extension and impact. I myself personally prefer to do full range monitors coupled with dedicated subwoofers for each channel, but for many the room or budget is not available. So doing full range towers is a good secondary option. But for a room your size I would consider another option. Since the room is medium sized, I'd run all 6.2 monitors for all channels, and run dedicated line level subs right below each channel speakers. 8.3's run what? $750, vs. $219 for a 6.2? Take the $500 saved for each speaker and buy a dedicated sub for the channel in question. Sound will be SIGNIFICANTLY better and more immersive if you have the room to go this route. I just recently did a 7.1 HT room for an old friend/client and he runs 7 identical monitors each with a dedicated sub in addition to 2 main subs run of the LFE/sub channel. The sound is phenominal, and it doubles as an equally impressive 2 channel stereo setup as well. Cipher, This article may help you make a good choice: www.hometheatermag.com/bootcamp/25/index4.html...or www.dolby.com/consumer/setup/speaker-setup-guide/index.html...and this, from good ol' Aperion University: www.aperionaudio.com/AperionU/51vs71.aspx
|
|
|
Post by flamingeye on Nov 17, 2009 11:31:22 GMT -5
I think your getting good advise from the majority here , having the exact same speakers across the front or all around is more for or more important for multichannel music then movies so in saying that I would put the money you save from getting the 6.3 for the center and put it in your amp`s or pre/pro
|
|
ntrain42
Emo VIPs
Smoke me a kipper, I'll be home before breakfast!
Posts: 2,969
|
Post by ntrain42 on Nov 17, 2009 14:51:27 GMT -5
I think your getting good advise from the majority here , having the exact same speakers across the front or all around is more for or more important for multichannel music then movies so in saying that I would put the money you save from getting the 6.3 for the center and put it in your amp`s or pre/pro Full range sound is just as important for movies as it is for music. The back/surround channels have alot of full range audio. If people ran full range towers or monitors to the backs they would realize how much more immersive the surround experience is and how much audio content they are missing from just running narrow band monitors.
|
|
|
Post by jmilton on Nov 17, 2009 15:07:22 GMT -5
I think your getting good advise from the majority here , having the exact same speakers across the front or all around is more for or more important for multichannel music then movies so in saying that I would put the money you save from getting the 6.3 for the center and put it in your amp`s or pre/pro Full range sound is just as important for movies as it is for music. The back/surround channels have alot of full range audio. If people ran full range towers or monitors to the backs they would realize how much more immersive the surround experience is and how much audio content they are missing from just running narrow band monitors. Hmmm, if that were true, wouldn't movie theaters use full range speakers?
|
|
DYohn
Emo VIPs
Posts: 18,340
|
Post by DYohn on Nov 17, 2009 15:17:42 GMT -5
While it is true that dipole surrounds work best with Dolby PL systems, there is absolutely nothing wrong with using them with any surround scheme. Bi-pole work better for modern lossless codecs. And wonder of wonders, the ERD-1 can be configured either way! Using standard direct radiating speakers for surrounds can be a fine solution as long as they are set up correctly (above the listener's head level) but they really are only required if you listen to a lot of multi-channel music, and then I would recommend that all five (or seven) speakers be exactly the same. There is no full-range sound in rear surround channels, but there certainly can be full-range in side surround channels depending on how the soundtrack is mixed. In several pro cinema theaters I've designed, we actually used subwoofers in the back of the room for side surround augmentation. But for home theater this is overkill.
|
|
|
Post by flamingeye on Nov 17, 2009 15:29:26 GMT -5
I wasn`t saying that you shouldn`t get full-range speakers all around I guess I didn`t put it very well , but what I was trying to say is it`s not as important movie wise that they all be the exact same speaker all around like you would want for multichannel music , but that said look at my sig I do have 4 of my speakers mains and surrounds are the same tower speakers and if I could they all would be the same and my rear`s are full rang also just not the same as the rest , but I`m more into music then movies and from what I`ve researched having all your speakers be the exact same is ideal for multichannel music , but not as important for movies , but yes full range would be best in my opinion also
|
|
ntrain42
Emo VIPs
Smoke me a kipper, I'll be home before breakfast!
Posts: 2,969
|
Post by ntrain42 on Nov 17, 2009 15:30:37 GMT -5
Full range sound is just as important for movies as it is for music. The back/surround channels have alot of full range audio. If people ran full range towers or monitors to the backs they would realize how much more immersive the surround experience is and how much audio content they are missing from just running narrow band monitors. Hmmm, if that were true, wouldn't movie theaters use full range speakers? Hmmmmmm, THEY DO. At least the good ones do.
|
|
ntrain42
Emo VIPs
Smoke me a kipper, I'll be home before breakfast!
Posts: 2,969
|
Post by ntrain42 on Nov 17, 2009 16:19:52 GMT -5
While it is true that dipole surrounds work best with Dolby PL systems, there is absolutely nothing wrong with using them with any surround scheme. Bi-pole work better for modern lossless codecs. And wonder of wonders, the ERD-1 can be configured either way! Bipolar(in phase) and dipolar(out of phase) speakers are designed to create and "ambient effect", this works fine with limited range/track mono surround effect channels, but with 5.1/7.1 discreet audio, whether for music or movies its not desireable. Using standard direct radiating speakers for surrounds can be a fine solution as long as they are set up correctly (above the listener's head level) but they really are only required if you listen to a lot of multi-channel music, and then I would recommend that all five (or seven) speakers be exactly the same. Regardless of what type of speaker is used, all speakers should be above the parallel plane of a listeners head. And it doesnt matter if its movies or music. There is no full-range sound in rear surround channels, but there certainly can be full-range in side surround channels depending on how the soundtrack is mixed. In several pro cinema theaters I've designed, we actually used subwoofers in the back of the room for side surround augmentation. But for home theater this is overkill. Sure there is. Home systems and movies released for home play back are re-encoded to allow full range bass to all or any channels in addition to the LFE channel.
|
|
DYohn
Emo VIPs
Posts: 18,340
|
Post by DYohn on Nov 17, 2009 16:22:00 GMT -5
Are you just here to argue or what?
Your opinion is your opinion. You are not stating facts.
|
|
|
Post by strindl on Nov 17, 2009 16:42:28 GMT -5
I'm going to strongly disagree with you on that one. The erd's are a perfect surround speaker
|
|