ntrain42
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Post by ntrain42 on Nov 17, 2009 16:48:22 GMT -5
I'm going to strongly disagree with you on that one. The erd's are a perfect surround speaker Far from it. Twin tweeters and a small SINGLE 5.25" driver really limits its ability. Not a fan of em at all. Or any dipole/bipole speaker. We havent recommended, sold,setup or installed any of these types of speakers since discreet 5.1 came out over 10 years ago. I'd take a set of 6.2's or the discontinued twin 5.25" driven Emotiva monitors any day over the ERD's.
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ntrain42
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Post by ntrain42 on Nov 17, 2009 16:53:19 GMT -5
Are you just here to argue or what? Your opinion is your opinion. You are not stating facts. Excuse me? I'm not stating facts? So your telling me that home movie disc audio channels arent recorded full range? Or proper install of speakers? Should they be installed BELOW the parallel line of the users ears? Or maybe the dipole/bipole speakers? THey weren't designed to procure a diffused ambient effect? Which here isnt a fact? Maybe I should work for Creative Labs stamping "THX" certification logos on equipment? ;D
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Post by strindl on Nov 17, 2009 18:32:30 GMT -5
I'm not about to argue with you on it. We're just going to have to agree to disagree here.
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ntrain42
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Post by ntrain42 on Nov 17, 2009 19:03:10 GMT -5
I'm not about to argue with you on it. We're just going to have to agree to disagree here. Yep, and Im ok with that. Its just a product I would never sell, recommend or install. I'd rather have a good solid properly mounted monitor with a wide linear off axis frequency response. I will add one thing though, that the only arrangement I would even consider would be a bipolar speaker IF the tweeter woofer arrangement were identical to the LCR's(So if an LCR had one tweeter and say 2 6.5" drivers like the 6.2's, then the bipolar speaker would have 2 tweeters and 4 6.5" woofers)but this is hard to find and to be honest, 2 pairs of identical monitors can do the same thing. In fact there have been many times where I have taken 2 pairs of identical monitors and wired them in parallel with each other and created an omnidirectional sound pattern arrangement with them. Thats basically what a Bipolar speaker is trying to do. And 2 pairs of monitors will do a better job because you can point and tune them to give the directional pattern you need for your HT environment.
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DYohn
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Post by DYohn on Nov 17, 2009 21:13:14 GMT -5
I'm not about to argue with you on it. We're just going to have to agree to disagree here. Yep, and Im ok with that. Its just a product I would never sell, recommend or install. I'd rather have a good solid properly mounted monitor with a wide linear off axis frequency response. I will add one thing though, that the only arrangement I would even consider would be a bipolar speaker IF the tweeter woofer arrangement were identical to the LCR's(So if an LCR had one tweeter and say 2 6.5" drivers like the 6.2's, then the bipolar speaker would have 2 tweeters and 4 6.5" woofers)but this is hard to find and to be honest, 2 pairs of identical monitors can do the same thing. In fact there have been many times where I have taken 2 pairs of identical monitors and wired them in parallel with each other and created an omnidirectional sound pattern arrangement with them. Thats basically what a Bipolar speaker is trying to do. And 2 pairs of monitors will do a better job because you can point and tune them to give the directional pattern you need for your HT environment. Again, in your opinion... you are simply not correct for 100% of all cases.
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DYohn
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Post by DYohn on Nov 17, 2009 21:13:43 GMT -5
Are you just here to argue or what? Your opinion is your opinion. You are not stating facts. Excuse me? I'm not stating facts? So your telling me that home movie disc audio channels arent recorded full range? Or proper install of speakers? Should they be installed BELOW the parallel line of the users ears? Or maybe the dipole/bipole speakers? THey weren't designed to procure a diffused ambient effect? Which here isnt a fact? Maybe I should work for Creative Labs stamping "THX" certification logos on equipment? ;D Looks like you answered my question...
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ntrain42
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Post by ntrain42 on Nov 17, 2009 23:32:46 GMT -5
Yep, and Im ok with that. Its just a product I would never sell, recommend or install. I'd rather have a good solid properly mounted monitor with a wide linear off axis frequency response. I will add one thing though, that the only arrangement I would even consider would be a bipolar speaker IF the tweeter woofer arrangement were identical to the LCR's(So if an LCR had one tweeter and say 2 6.5" drivers like the 6.2's, then the bipolar speaker would have 2 tweeters and 4 6.5" woofers)but this is hard to find and to be honest, 2 pairs of identical monitors can do the same thing. In fact there have been many times where I have taken 2 pairs of identical monitors and wired them in parallel with each other and created an omnidirectional sound pattern arrangement with them. Thats basically what a Bipolar speaker is trying to do. And 2 pairs of monitors will do a better job because you can point and tune them to give the directional pattern you need for your HT environment. Again, in your opinion... you are simply not correct for 100% of all cases. So why don't you tell me what "cases" Im not right on? Lets hear your "expanded" views and opinion.
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Post by jmilton on Nov 18, 2009 8:22:47 GMT -5
www.audioholics.com/education/surround-sound/7-1-surround-soundThankfully, most of us use "bass mgt." Why force all that extra work on your amplifiers? Relieving the speakers of the bass will increase their efficiency and improve the treble/mid-range performance. Others would argue that a "diffuse" surround field is preferable to a point source monitor. To each, his own.
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Post by strindl on Nov 18, 2009 8:28:37 GMT -5
shhh..quit trying to confuse him with facts.
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ntrain42
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Post by ntrain42 on Nov 18, 2009 8:34:09 GMT -5
www.audioholics.com/education/surround-sound/7-1-surround-soundThankfully, most of us use "bass mgt." Why force all that extra work on your amplifiers? Relieving the speakers of the bass will increase their efficiency and improve the treble/mid-range performance. Others would argue that a "diffuse" surround field is preferable to a point source monitor. To each, his own. LOL! I'll take a quote from that link: Don't need to do this anymore. This isn't the Prologic era of the 80's......
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ntrain42
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Post by ntrain42 on Nov 18, 2009 8:54:49 GMT -5
www.audioholics.com/education/surround-sound/7-1-surround-soundThankfully, most of us use "bass mgt." Why force all that extra work on your amplifiers? Relieving the speakers of the bass will increase their efficiency and improve the treble/mid-range performance. Others would argue that a "diffuse" surround field is preferable to a point source monitor. To each, his own. Again, this is coming from someone with very little experience. Have you ever heard a 5.1 or 7.1 HT setup running a full compliment of subs/sats? We both know the answer to this question. Your answer is very naive, its actually a big misconception that running your amps to play a slightly narrower bandwidth with make them run any more "efficient", or necessarily improve treble or mid range performance from the amp. Did you that midrange and treble sounds actually start with extreme low frequencies? Take a hard cymbol crash, the frequency response many times starts BELOW 15-20hz! By having full range sound your getting a bigger more detailed and complete "audio" picture. But anyway, Since we are going to start tossing out links, here is a good one that gives some basics on HT and a little history. www.hometheaterhifi.com/volume_7_2/feature-article-misunderstood-lfe-channel-april-2000.html
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Post by jmilton on Nov 18, 2009 9:04:02 GMT -5
My co-worker states:" The purpose of the LFE remains one of headroom (going back to our water faucet example). By supplying deep bass information on a segregated track, the system effectively permits a higher output level of deep bass information while not imposing on the performance or levels of the rest of the system. This whole system is optimized for a theater’s configuration, but thanks to the flexibility of our home processors, we don’t need to match that configuration to get good results. In the home, we are in much more intimate settings and at reasonable levels, we can comfortably use one or two subwoofers to produce all the deep bass of the soundtrack, including the LFE channel. There is nothing we need to do as consumers to set up our systems properly beyond the simple procedures provided by AVIA and Video Essentials."...which is the point. Thanks!
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DYohn
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Post by DYohn on Nov 18, 2009 9:12:23 GMT -5
ntrain42, there is no need to be abusive.
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ntrain42
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Post by ntrain42 on Nov 18, 2009 9:13:52 GMT -5
My co-worker states:" The purpose of the LFE remains one of headroom (going back to our water faucet example). By supplying deep bass information on a segregated track, the system effectively permits a higher output level of deep bass information while not imposing on the performance or levels of the rest of the system. This whole system is optimized for a theater’s configuration, but thanks to the flexibility of our home processors, we don’t need to match that configuration to get good results. In the home, we are in much more intimate settings and at reasonable levels, we can comfortably use one or two subwoofers to produce all the deep bass of the soundtrack, including the LFE channel. There is nothing we need to do as consumers to set up our systems properly beyond the simple procedures provided by AVIA and Video Essentials."...which is the point. Thanks! Your "co workers" thoughts and views are a tad narrow. When you run dedicated POWERED subs to each channel.....guess which amplifier is doing the work? Is it the powered subs internal amp, or is it your main channels amp? Clock is ticking................. Regardless the only thing that really improves treble and midrange response(less intermodulation distortion etc) is to make sure the signals themselves do not pass through the midrange woofers and tweeters. It really doesnt matter if the full range signal passes through the amp or not. You do this how? By the passive Xovers built into the speakers themselves, and even the electronic xovers on pre/pros etc......
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Post by jmilton on Nov 18, 2009 9:25:21 GMT -5
Sorry, but my co-worker wrote the article you posted. A cymbal crash is 8192 to 16384 Hz in the 10th octave....
IMHO you should use IMHO more often.
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ntrain42
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Post by ntrain42 on Nov 18, 2009 9:37:34 GMT -5
Sorry, but my co-worker wrote the article you posted. A cymbal crash is 8192 to 16384 Hz in the 10th octave.... IMHO you should use IMHO more often. I find that hard to believe. You sure he doesn't work for "THX"? ;D And your information once again is flawed and WRONG. A cymbal crash does not start at 8192 and stop at 16384, LOL, the initial IMPACT of the crash starts in the sub bass region, and actually extends out to well beyond 50khz! Seriously, your views and much of the info your posting is lacking, incomplete, and sometimes just plain wrong. Here is a good article on instruments and the frequency range and extension etc: www.its.caltech.edu/~boyk/spectra/spectra.htm I mean, how bout this, your north of Boston right? Well so are we. Feel free to PM me, get directions and you can come by and check out 2-3 HT's I designed and installed for some of my close friends, especially the one I just completed that features 9 subwoofers(7 of which are on their own dedicated channel for the accompanying sats.),7 monoblock amps, 1 pre/pro, and a couple of RANE AC 24's in a roughly 3600 square foot HT room with a nice RUNCO HD front projector. We will gladly supply you with your booze and entertainment, feel free to bring over all your "known" test material and lets talk HT etc in person. ;D
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Post by jmilton on Nov 18, 2009 10:09:42 GMT -5
Brian works for SECRETS of Home Theater & HiFi and has no affiliation with THX that I am aware of. And if you are in Saugus, stop by the cineplex and I'll give you a tour of my projection booths and provide some digital 2k/3D action.
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Post by Nemesis.ie on Nov 18, 2009 10:13:04 GMT -5
I think your getting good advise from the majority here , having the exact same speakers across the front or all around is more for or more important for multichannel music then movies so in saying that I would put the money you save from getting the 6.3 for the center and put it in your amp`s or pre/pro Full range sound is just as important for movies as it is for music. The back/surround channels have alot of full range audio. If people ran full range towers or monitors to the backs they would realize how much more immersive the surround experience is and how much audio content they are missing from just running narrow band monitors. This is why I have been asking for multiple conigurable sub outputs, that way you can have dedicated "rear" sub as in many cases the budget will not stretch to one for each monitor or indeed full-range towers for each channel.
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ntrain42
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Post by ntrain42 on Nov 18, 2009 10:18:39 GMT -5
Full range sound is just as important for movies as it is for music. The back/surround channels have alot of full range audio. If people ran full range towers or monitors to the backs they would realize how much more immersive the surround experience is and how much audio content they are missing from just running narrow band monitors. This is why I have been asking for multiple conigurable sub outputs, that way you can have dedicated "rear" sub as in many cases the budget will not stretch to one for each monitor or indeed full-range towers for each channel. Still not necessary though, as you can take the L/R rear surround channels and wire them line level into a dedicated rear sub with runs off the sum of the L/R channels speaker inputs.
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Post by Nemesis.ie on Nov 18, 2009 10:24:41 GMT -5
More cable/hassle though. ;-)
In addition to which, I was told by one of the well-know sub makers that genrally the x-overs in most subs are really bad and they do not suggest using the line-level inputs/outputs if you can avoid them. Much better to have it done electronically in the processor.
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