ntrain42
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Post by ntrain42 on Nov 18, 2009 10:31:24 GMT -5
Brian works for SECRETS of Home Theater & HiFi and has no affiliation with THX that I am aware of. And if you are in Saugus, stop by the cineplex and I'll give you a tour of my projection booths and provide some digital 2k/3D action. Well, this new spreadsheet shows cymbals reaching down to around 130hz? This is still different from your original statement. But its still not 100% accurate or complete(doesnt show rolloffs etc)and is nothing more than a basic generalization. I mean, even the different types and sizes of cymbals will make a difference in frequency response. Hard cymbal crashes start in the sub frequencies. I mean if I really have to I am sure I can post up links and spectral graphs that show just how low down the frequency response is on the initial impact of the stick hitting the cymbal itself and it can start in the 20-40hz range and lower even. The "THX" comment was meant to be off the wall/off topic sarcastic, nothing more..... ;D It actually wasn't even directly pointed at you.
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Post by jmilton on Nov 18, 2009 10:39:47 GMT -5
kHz.- You said 50kHz was a sub bass frequency?
"...actually extends out to well beyond 50khz!"
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ntrain42
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Post by ntrain42 on Nov 18, 2009 10:41:30 GMT -5
More cable/hassle though. ;-) In addition to which, I was told by one of the well-know sub makers that genrally the x-overs in most subs are really bad and they do not suggest using the line-lee inputs if you can avoid them. Much better to have it done electronically in the processor. Actually you will use alot less cable(No long sub cable run). And using speaker line level inputs in not a problem at all. Again, serious misconception here. As for quality of subwoofer xovers, I agree that not all are great, and and not all are made equal, but they are no worse(and most times better) than the junk passive xovers all your speakers have built into them internally to seperate the high and midrange frequencies from the different drivers. I also agree that its better to do the xovers in the electronic domain. And its something I am doing over time bit by bit as funds become available with my friend's HT system stated above. Right now he runs 7 Bryston mono blocks powering his main monitors and some(4 to be exact) RANE AC 24's to xover the low/high pass between the midrange drivers and the subs. In the next few months we are going to add 7 more Bryston monoblocks and REMOVE the passive xovers completely from all his monitors and Xover every driver electronically with no resistors,caps, or inductors in the signal path whatsoever. Best way to do it.
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ntrain42
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Post by ntrain42 on Nov 18, 2009 10:44:36 GMT -5
kHz.- You said 50kHz was a sub bass frequency? "...actually extends out to well beyond 50khz!" You need to reread what I said, it states a cymbal crash STARTS in the sub bass frequencies and EXTENDS out to beyond 50khz........
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Post by jmilton on Nov 18, 2009 10:55:07 GMT -5
All the charts and articles are wrong. Who knew? ...just having fun. We can put the cymbals away now.
Back to our regularly scheduled program, folks!
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ntrain42
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Post by ntrain42 on Nov 18, 2009 11:39:35 GMT -5
All the charts and articles are wrong. Who knew? ... just having fun. We can put the cymbals away now. Back to our regularly scheduled program, folks! I never stated they were outright wrong, I just stated they are very basic and generalized at best. For exapmle a 20" crash is going to have very different frequency response than a 24" crash or a 10" high hat........I mean, lets use some common sense here...........
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Post by jmilton on Nov 18, 2009 11:45:45 GMT -5
"And your information once again is flawed and WRONG." True, you did not say "outright". An interesting discourse all the same. So, does anyone else have an opinion on coach Belichek's decision to go for it on 4th down? Wazzup with that?
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ntrain42
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Post by ntrain42 on Nov 18, 2009 12:20:09 GMT -5
"And your information once again is flawed and WRONG." True, you did not say "outright". An interesting discourse all the same. So, does anyone else have an opinion on coach Belichek's decision to go for it on 4th down? Wazzup with that?Yeah, I did say that originally. Because you stated originally that: And this is flawed and completely WRONG. Even your generalized(and incomplete) spread sheet showed that. Your taking my comments way out of context. As for Belichicks decision to go for it on 4th down, I agree with his call actually. I would have done the same thing. Peyton and Wayne were in a zone and they were shredding the Pats D. In its been proven that the Patriots did actually make that 4th and 2 conversion. The moronic ref that gave a piss poor ball spot who said Faulk "juggled" the ball was wrong. Faulks back was to the ref and there was no way he could have seen how the ball was handled. Replays showed Faulk bat the ball up in the air then catch it. He caught and had control of the ball about a yard past the first down marker. In the end a bad call by the refs changed the outcome of the game. They need to change the rules on instant replay when it comes to plays at the 2 minute mark, it should have been reviewed and overturned, either by challenge or the review booth.
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Post by monkumonku on Nov 18, 2009 12:35:06 GMT -5
All the charts and articles are wrong. Who knew? ... just having fun. We can put the cymbals away now. Back to our regularly scheduled program, folks! I never stated they were outright wrong, I just stated they are very basic and generalized at best. For exapmle a 20" crash is going to have very different frequency response than a 24" crash or a 10" high hat........I mean, lets use some common sense here........... And don't forget about the gongs, too! ;D
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Post by jmilton on Nov 18, 2009 12:41:01 GMT -5
Frequency (Hz) Octave Description 16 to 32 1st (octave)- The human threshold of feeling, and the lowest pedal notes of a pipe organ. 32 to 512 2nd to 5th- Rhythm frequencies, where the lower and upper bass notes lie. 512 to 2048 6th to 7th- Defines human speech intelligibility, gives a horn-like or tinny quality to sound. 2048 to 8192 8th to 9th- Gives presence to speech, where labial and fricative sounds lie. 8192 to 16384 10th- Brilliance, the sounds of bells and the ringing of cymbals. In speech, the sound of the letter "S" (8000-11000 Hz) (from Wiki) ------------------- I agree. I think Belichek made the correct call and the ref mis-spotted the ball. We will face Manning again and this time, we will prevail... mark my words! At least Bob Kraft didn't "finger" the opposing side!!!
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DYohn
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Post by DYohn on Nov 18, 2009 12:51:15 GMT -5
;And your information once again is flawed and WRONG Do you not understand how offensive that is, or do you just not care?
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Post by jmilton on Nov 18, 2009 12:51:51 GMT -5
I never stated they were outright wrong, I just stated they are very basic and generalized at best. For exapmle a 20" crash is going to have very different frequency response than a 24" crash or a 10" high hat........I mean, lets use some common sense here........... And don't forget about the gongs, too! ;D - You're not helping.....
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ntrain42
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Post by ntrain42 on Nov 18, 2009 12:57:25 GMT -5
Frequency (Hz) Octave Description 16 to 32 1st (octave)- The human threshold of feeling, and the lowest pedal notes of a pipe organ. 32 to 512 2nd to 5th- Rhythm frequencies, where the lower and upper bass notes lie. 512 to 2048 6th to 7th- Defines human speech intelligibility, gives a horn-like or tinny quality to sound. 2048 to 8192 8th to 9th- Gives presence to speech, where labial and fricative sounds lie. 8192 to 16384 10th- Brilliance, the sounds of bells and the ringing of cymbals. In speech, the sound of the letter "S" (8000-11000 Hz) (from Wiki) ------------------- I agree. I think Belichek made the correct call and the ref mis-spotted the ball. We will face Manning again and this time, we will prevail... mark my words! I'm not disagreeing with the wiki definition. But they again are kind of over generalizing things. The main body of a cymbols frequency response is of course up in the higher octaves, but the initial hit of the stick against the cymbal goes well into the bass frequencies. Here is a test you or anyone else can perform. Find an audio track with an isolated HARD, LOUD and deliberate cymbal crash(like from a marching band etc). Set your subs for a 40hz low pass if not done already, put the specific audio track on an AB repeater localizing the hard deliberate note of the cymbal being struck(by a drum stick or another cymbol being clasped together) and put your hand gently on the surround of the sub and see what information its picking up. You will be many times very surprised at how much information that sub is picking up and reproducing even with it crossed over low. On to football, if the Patriots go into the playoffs relatively healthy with their key personel and happen to meet the Colts on their own turf I am looking for some serious revenge, they are the better team in my mind still. We should have a healthy Fred Taylor and Sammy Morris back by that time, and the defense should be that much better as well. The team is still gelling IMO.
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Post by jmilton on Nov 18, 2009 13:04:12 GMT -5
When a tympani is struck, there is an initial high frequency response at the beginning, but I do not think the reverse is true with a cymbal. But I respect your opinion. I will endeavor to listen to some cymbals on my sub as you suggest...just to put my mind at ease.
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Post by monkumonku on Nov 18, 2009 13:17:47 GMT -5
Frequency (Hz) Octave Description 16 to 32 1st (octave)- The human threshold of feeling, and the lowest pedal notes of a pipe organ. 32 to 512 2nd to 5th- Rhythm frequencies, where the lower and upper bass notes lie. 512 to 2048 6th to 7th- Defines human speech intelligibility, gives a horn-like or tinny quality to sound. 2048 to 8192 8th to 9th- Gives presence to speech, where labial and fricative sounds lie. 8192 to 16384 10th- Brilliance, the sounds of bells and the ringing of cymbals. In speech, the sound of the letter "S" (8000-11000 Hz) (from Wiki) ------------------- I agree. I think Belichek made the correct call and the ref mis-spotted the ball. We will face Manning again and this time, we will prevail... mark my words! I'm not disagreeing with the wiki definition. But they again are kind of over generalizing things. The main body of a cymbols frequency response is of course up in the higher octaves, but the initial hit of the stick against the cymbal goes well into the bass frequencies. Here is a test you or anyone else can perform. Find an audio track with an isolated HARD, LOUD and deliberate cymbal crash(like from a marching band etc). Set your subs for a 40hz low pass if not done already, put the specific audio track on an AB repeater localizing the hard deliberate note of the cymbal being struck(by a drum stick or another cymbol being clasped together) and put your hand gently on the surround of the sub and see what information its picking up. You will be many times very surprised at how much information that sub is picking up and reproducing even with it crossed over low. On to football, if the Patriots go into the playoffs relatively healthy with their key personel and happen to meet the Colts on their own turf I am looking for some serious revenge, they are the better team in my mind still. We should have a healthy Fred Taylor and Sammy Morris back by that time, and the defense should be that much better as well. The team is still gelling IMO. Speaking purely from a layman's point of view, but also someone who used to play the drums, often when you strike a cymbal, you also kick the bass drum because that gives it a fuller sound. If you listen to just a plain cymbal crash versus using the kick drum at the same time, the difference is dramatic. On many recordings you will need to make sure that you are not hearing both at the same time. The cymbals just by themselves sound wimpy by comparison to when you hit the bass drum at the same time.
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ntrain42
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Post by ntrain42 on Nov 18, 2009 13:23:26 GMT -5
;And your information once again is flawed and WRONG Do you not understand how offensive that is, or do you just not care? Do you know how offensive "THX certification" is, or do you just not care? ;D
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ntrain42
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Post by ntrain42 on Nov 18, 2009 13:25:48 GMT -5
When a tympani is struck, there is an initial high frequency response at the beginning, but I do not think the reverse is true with a cymbal. But I respect your opinion.I will endeavor to listen to some cymbals on my sub as you suggest...just to put my mind at ease. Thats why I suggested finding some marching band material, specifically with an individual crashing 2 cymbals together by hand, being done of course with no accompanying background bass drums or other instruments. Just solo. Its pretty easy to find material like this, and it gets my point and demonstration across perfectly with good full range recordings.
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Post by jmilton on Nov 18, 2009 13:27:23 GMT -5
Do you not understand how offensive that is, or do you just not care? Do you know how offensive "THX certification" is, or do you just not care? ;D .... oh oh! ( I have to go and...polish my silverware or something. G'night everybody....)
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DYohn
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Post by DYohn on Nov 18, 2009 14:20:51 GMT -5
Do you not understand how offensive that is, or do you just not care? Do you know how offensive "THX certification" is, or do you just not care? ;D Oh snap. You win. Feel better now?
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ntrain42
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Post by ntrain42 on Nov 18, 2009 15:07:32 GMT -5
Do you know how offensive "THX certification" is, or do you just not care? ;D Oh snap. You win. Feel better now? LOL! Sorry bro, but it seems like everywhere on the internet boards where someone "disses" or doesn't bode well with the "THX certification process" in a thread, there always seems to be "someone" who pops up on the board/thread and states they work for THX/creative and gets into a big debate trying to defend the process with those who feel its completely unecessary..................you just happened to fall into that category.
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