6.3 as center with KEF 104.2

[mariof16]

Hi fellas, i am new to posting on this forum, been reading for awhile but never posted. I was on the soundandvision forum but they all bow down to a few of the senior posters there and it is annoying to read. Whatever is said by a few of the posters is taken as "ABSOLUTE TRUTH" and anyone who questions it or gives a different opinion is wrong. Don't get me wrong, I respect guys who have worked in Audio their whole lives, but don't tell me that I am wrong or basically dumb for liking and buying what I like.

Anyways, I have looking at EMO stuff for awhile, got on the preorder for the UMC-1 along time ago. I am U.S. Air force stationed in the UK and have been a home theater enthusiasts since I was young. Had LD player and early dolby surround sound when I was 15. Helps that dad likes audio as well. So, since being on me own I have tried many electronics and speaker set-ups. I've had Sony, HK, Marantz, Pioneer Elite, and now Pioneer LX (Euro Elite, need the multi-voltage) receivers. I've had a Marantz MM9000 amp and now have an ADCOM 7500 (Using Pioneer as Pre-Pro. I have a Pioneer BDP-51 Blu Ray player and a Belkin power conditioner. 50 inch Panny. That brings me to my speakers.

I've had JBL, Polk, Infinity, Axiom, and now Kef. I thought all my speakers had their good points but have never been completely satisfied. Except with my SVS sub (Very Happy). When I got here i was using Kef iQ5 for fronts, iQ6c center, and Q Compacts for surrounds. I had q8s for back surrounds but current room is not good for 7.1. So being in the UK i have access to all british speakers at a much higher lever, especially the used market. I have tried and sold off Missions, B&W, and KEF Ref. I found a pair of 104.2s that are mint so i bought them, i figured i would just use the iQ5s as surrounds and move the compacts to my office system. The 104.2s are by far the best stereo speakers i have ever heard, not bright like the iQ series tends to be towards the end of a long session. They have a ferro-fluid tweeter which is much more laid back then the metallic iQ tweeter. I love the 104.2s but the iQ6c does not match at all, not even close, and either do the iQ5s as surrounds, i can and even my wife can tell the huge difference during surround scenes. So i set out to find a center to match 24 year old Kef towers. I read everywear that the Kef 200C, and 100C were the best matches. I tried to find a 200C cause it is full range but they are impossible to find, my buddy has one and i offered him a good price and he said no way, so i found a mint 100C and it was way better than the iQ6c in every way, not because of matching, just a way better speaker to my ears. But it is a small single point speaker and can not hold it's own next to my 104.2s and the SVS. It gets lost in the big scenes. So, I was going to order either the MTS center or the EMO 6.3 and keep the one I liked better or send them both back and keep looking for a 200C if they were both mismatches. I got the 6.3 first cause of the ferro-fluid tweeter thinking it would be a better match. i plugged it in set the switches to high, 0,0 and boundary control on and WOW. It is not a perfect match, but really close, and I could not be more happy with the speakers looks, sound, and build quality. Especially with the sale price. EMOs customer service was great, just like i read about, and the speaker got to England in 5 days. That is great. So i will be getting the erd-1s as surrounds and the UMC-1 when it is available. i am happy with the ADCOM 7500 as my amp, and i cannot get a XPA-5 shipped here anyways. Maybe when i get back to the States i can try one out and see how it compares to my ADCOM. The Pionner blu ray player i have sounds and looks great, even with CDs (has good DACs) so i am happy there. Maybe a ERC-1 down the line with XPA-2 and USP-1 for a stereo set up, move the 104.2s to that system and get the 8.3s. But either way, i am a convert to Emotiva products because of quality, bang for buck, and most importantly, customer service. SVS also is great in all these departments, but i like the 6.3 so no need to audition the MTS center. I cannot imagine a better match for the 104.2s. Sorry for the long post, but i hope to be posting and sharing on this forum for a long time, i love this very expensive, frustrating at times, and rewarding hobby.

[mariof16]

Ordered my ERD-1s last night. Can't wait to get them here. Moving my iQ5s to my office set up. Also, I signed up for the UMC-1 in May and I was told I should receive a payment request around the first of the year.

[bigred7078]

Welcome to the forum mariof16!

Sounds like you have had a great experience! Thanks for sharing
Let us know what you think of the ERD-1's. I have a pair and love them.

[headknocker]

Welcome to the lounge. Don't be a stranger.

As you obviously already know this forum is comprised of some really cool, mature individuals who aren't snooty audiphiles. I'm so glad I found Emo around nine months ago...for their products AND forum.

[strindl]

Those 104's are a wonderful speaker. My neighbor has a pair in gorgeous rosewood that he bought new in the mid 80's. I think the emotiva silk dome tweeter is a very good match sonically for the one in that KEF.

My neighbor also powers his with an Adcom power amp..in his case the GFA-555. He bought that about the same time as the speakers and it also still works great. We keep talking about trying one of my Emotiva amps with his speakers but haven't done that yet.

[mariof16]

If you do ever get a chance to haul either the heavy amp or heavy speakers to one anothers setup i would be interested to know the results. I am restricted to receiving packages under 70 lbs. here, so me trying out an XPA-5 or UPA-5 can't happen until I get back to the states.

[strindl]

I definitely will . The most likely candidate is the XPA-2 from my bedroom system. His system is strictly two channel so the XPA-5 would have three hands tied behind it's back, and the XPA-1's would be real overkill on those very efficient speakers. Plus...we'd have to lug two of those amps down the block.

[Animo]

Dec 11, 2009 11:42:40 GMT -5 strindl said:

Those 104's are a wonderful speaker. My neighbor has a pair in gorgeous rosewood that he bought new in the mid 80's. I think the emotiva silk dome tweeter is a very good match sonically for the one in that KEF.

My neighbor also powers his with an Adcom power amp..in his case the GFA-555. He bought that about the same time as the speakers and it also still works great. We keep talking about trying one of my Emotiva amps with his speakers but haven't done that yet.

I can safely say that Nichoplas322 replaced an Adcom amp with an XPA-2. The difference was like night and day.

[ntrain42]

Dec 10, 2009 4:33:32 GMT -5 mariof16 said:

Hi fellas, i am new to posting on this forum, been reading for awhile but never posted. I was on the soundandvision forum but they all bow down to a few of the senior posters there and it is annoying to read. Whatever is said by a few of the posters is taken as "ABSOLUTE TRUTH" and anyone who questions it or gives a different opinion is wrong. Don't get me wrong, I respect guys who have worked in Audio their whole lives, but don't tell me that I am wrong or basically dumb for liking and buying what I like.

Anyways, I have looking at EMO stuff for awhile, got on the preorder for the UMC-1 along time ago. I am U.S. Air force stationed in the UK and have been a home theater enthusiasts since I was young. Had LD player and early dolby surround sound when I was 15. Helps that dad likes audio as well. So, since being on me own I have tried many electronics and speaker set-ups. I've had Sony, HK, Marantz, Pioneer Elite, and now Pioneer LX (Euro Elite, need the multi-voltage) receivers. I've had a Marantz MM9000 amp and now have an ADCOM 7500 (Using Pioneer as Pre-Pro. I have a Pioneer BDP-51 Blu Ray player and a Belkin power conditioner. 50 inch Panny. That brings me to my speakers.

I've had JBL, Polk, Infinity, Axiom, and now Kef. I thought all my speakers had their good points but have never been completely satisfied. Except with my SVS sub (Very Happy). When I got here i was using Kef iQ5 for fronts, iQ6c center, and Q Compacts for surrounds. I had q8s for back surrounds but current room is not good for 7.1. So being in the UK i have access to all british speakers at a much higher lever, especially the used market. I have tried and sold off Missions, B&W, and KEF Ref. I found a pair of 104.2s that are mint so i bought them, i figured i would just use the iQ5s as surrounds and move the compacts to my office system. The 104.2s are by far the best stereo speakers i have ever heard, not bright like the iQ series tends to be towards the end of a long session. They have a ferro-fluid tweeter which is much more laid back then the metallic iQ tweeter. I love the 104.2s but the iQ6c does not match at all, not even close, and either do the iQ5s as surrounds, i can and even my wife can tell the huge difference during surround scenes. So i set out to find a center to match 24 year old Kef towers. I read everywear that the Kef 200C, and 100C were the best matches. I tried to find a 200C cause it is full range but they are impossible to find, my buddy has one and i offered him a good price and he said no way, so i found a mint 100C and it was way better than the iQ6c in every way, not because of matching, just a way better speaker to my ears. But it is a small single point speaker and can not hold it's own next to my 104.2s and the SVS. It gets lost in the big scenes. So, I was going to order either the MTS center or the EMO 6.3 and keep the one I liked better or send them both back and keep looking for a 200C if they were both mismatches. I got the 6.3 first cause of the ferro-fluid tweeter thinking it would be a better match. i plugged it in set the switches to high, 0,0 and boundary control on and WOW. It is not a perfect match, but really close, and I could not be more happy with the speakers looks, sound, and build quality. Especially with the sale price. EMOs customer service was great, just like i read about, and the speaker got to England in 5 days. That is great. So i will be getting the erd-1s as surrounds and the UMC-1 when it is available. i am happy with the ADCOM 7500 as my amp, and i cannot get a XPA-5 shipped here anyways. Maybe when i get back to the States i can try one out and see how it compares to my ADCOM. The Pionner blu ray player i have sounds and looks great, even with CDs (has good DACs) so i am happy there. Maybe a ERC-1 down the line with XPA-2 and USP-1 for a stereo set up, move the 104.2s to that system and get the 8.3s. But either way, i am a convert to Emotiva products because of quality, bang for buck, and most importantly, customer service. SVS also is great in all these departments, but i like the 6.3 so no need to audition the MTS center. I cannot imagine a better match for the 104.2s. Sorry for the long post, but i hope to be posting and sharing on this forum for a long time, i love this very expensive, frustrating at times, and rewarding hobby.

Being very familiar with Kef's for 20 years and owning a half dozen pairs(Including iQ series, XQ series, older 107's, Reference series Model 2's etc), I would say your best off going with a Kef Reference Model 90 or 100 for your center channel. You can find mint ones for around $100 USD. I like some of the Emotiva speakers(6.2's and 6.3's specifically), but I would take older KEF reference speakers or some of the newer iQ/xq speakers over them in a heartbeat. They have a smoother more neutral frequency response overall and I feel a better fundamental design with their point source driver array and curved cabinet design. Hell you can get some iQ30's for about $390 shipped a pair from places like accesories4less.com in the US , Best bargain out there.

[mariof16]

Yeah, I have a perfect 100C that i used before i decided to try the 6.3. The 100C is a great little speaker but like i said, i just think it was overpowered by the 104.2s and my sub. Just sounds small to me. I have a full 7.1 iQ setup but i wanted to get away from metallic tweeters, that's what led me to the 104.2s in the first place. If i could find a 200C for sale it may be a different story, i could get that and another pair of 104.2s for surrounds. that would be great, but i looked for a 200c for about a year and the only one i could find was my buddies, and he isn't selling. in fact, he countered with an offer for my 104.2s. So that led me to find an alternative and to my ears, i may be deaf (F-16s and F-15s are really loud) the 6.3 sounds really good with the 104.2s.

[mariof16]

Dec 11, 2009 14:00:41 GMT -5 Animo said:

Dec 11, 2009 11:42:40 GMT -5 strindl said:

Those 104's are a wonderful speaker. My neighbor has a pair in gorgeous rosewood that he bought new in the mid 80's. I think the emotiva silk dome tweeter is a very good match sonically for the one in that KEF.

My neighbor also powers his with an Adcom power amp..in his case the GFA-555. He bought that about the same time as the speakers and it also still works great. We keep talking about trying one of my Emotiva amps with his speakers but haven't done that yet.

I can safely say that Nichoplas322 replaced an Adcom amp with an XPA-2. The difference was like night and day.

What model ADCOM was it? I know the newer amps have a different sound than the older ones. Just Curious

[ntrain42]

Dec 11, 2009 17:13:44 GMT -5 mariof16 said:

Yeah, I have a perfect 100C that i used before i decided to try the 6.3. The 100C is a great little speaker but like i said, i just think it was overpowered by the 104.2s and my sub. Just sounds small to me. I have a full 7.1 iQ setup but i wanted to get away from metallic tweeters, that's what led me to the 104.2s in the first place. If i could find a 200C for sale it may be a different story, i could get that and another pair of 104.2s for surrounds. that would be great, but i looked for a 200c for about a year and the only one i could find was my buddies, and he isn't selling. in fact, he countered with an offer for my 104.2s. So that led me to find an alternative and to my ears, i may be deaf (F-16s and F-15s are really loud) the 6.3 sounds really good with the 104.2s.

Im surprised your saying you think the iQ series tweeters are metallic sounding(unless you have the original series and not the new ones with the waveguides), regardless of whichever you have, they are actually smoother than the older kef soft domes when set up corectly.

Yeah the 100C is pretty mellow with a low sensitivity, but it can take alot of power and has the capable output......

[strindl]

I can safely say that Nichoplas322 replaced an Adcom amp with an XPA-2. The difference was like night and day.

I've never heard an emotiva amp on those Kef's, but I'm fairly certain if my neighbor heard his 25 year old speakers driven by an XPA-2, he'd have his credit card out and be heading for the emotiva order page real quick. My XPA-2 replaced an Adcom 555 mk II in my bedroom system and there is most certainly a difference in the sound.

We had a KEF dealer in the Milwaukee area for many years called Flanner and Hafsoos. They've literally been in business for over a hundred years. I used to listen to the KEF offerings there when I was in the market for speakers.

The dealer is still around known as just Flanners now..Hafsoos seems to have vanished mysteriously, but I don't believe they carry KEF any longer. I shop there fairly often and haven't seen any KEF's on display in quite a few years.

[merton]

I use a Reference 100 with 104.2's and have been pretty happy with it. What made a huge difference was when I replaced my NAD T-762 receiver's amp section with an XPA-5. At some point I had used Denon POA-6600 monoblocks. I loved them but they started self-destructing. I also used some Adcom GFA-565 monoblocks (300-watt). As I posted previously, maybe their caps were dried out because they made Joan Armatrading sound like Joan Rivers - very harsh, like broken glass. I'm on the list for the UMC-1 and I'm sure it will also be an improvement, though I don't expect it to be as dramatic as the amp section improvement.

Mariof16, have you replaced your ferro fluid tweeters yet? They tend to dry out every decade or so. I bought mine new in 1989 and just replaced the tweeters with Morel's. I had replaced the original ones with T-33's 10-12 years ago.

I'm starting on a tour with a country music artist next week and will be back and forth to Nashville a lot over the next few months. I plan to take my 104.2's on one trip to A-B-C them with the 6.3's and 8.3's. I think the 104.2's are still strong speakers but will be interested in hearing them against the Emo's. I was really impressed with the Emo's when I stopped by their HQ to hear the XPA-5. I'd like some Martin-Logans but our den is just too small for them.

And BTW, I hear what you're saying about some of the other forums. I posted a question about my Denon's to the Audioholics forum. While I got some good responses, one individual decided he wanted to be my pen-pal. I responded once, then took a whole 40 hours before responding to his second PM (which would have taken a somewhat lengthy response). Next thing I know, I'm getting these flames hoping my amps blow up and how I'm one of the problems with their forum. I know this guy was surely an exception to the forum, but my initial impression did not make me want to return.

[mariof16]

Merton, I am the second owner of the 104.2s and the original owner had the speakers fully serviced including the tweeters by an authorized KEF dealer in the UK three years ago so I assume they are good to go. I think they are getting plenty of quality power, my ADCOM pushes 225 watts at 4 ohms. The 104.2s are not what I wasn't happy with, I wasn't happy with the centers I tried matching with them (iQ6C & Ref 100). The iQ6c is a total mismatch and I thought the 100c was over powered by the mains and sub in my room. The 6.3 is a way better match to my ears. I do plan on moving to an EMO XPA5 eventually and I am waiting for the UMC-1. I will also be getting the 8.3s to use in my home theater and move the KEFs to my 2-Channel system. I do really like the 104.2s, especially for music.