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Post by Deleted on Dec 14, 2009 19:44:25 GMT -5
Sheesh! What is it with you and facts?  Well, Jim I got jumped on last night by two folks for one of my posts and called son today ( ;D) and so it seems to me like it must be nitpick Chuckienut week. I was pretty sure my use of the term standing waves traditionally applied to the lower bass frequencies and those are most common in full range speakers. Yes, they can affect bookshelf speakers but not as much as the big towers. The lower the frequency the more problems with standing waves. I could have responded to his statement that standing waves had nothing to do with full range speakers by coming back with, well I disagree. But then we would have just gone round in circles. So I thought a few quotes might confirm that my senior citizen mind wasn't so fuzzy after all. So have we beat this horse to death now? Here below is a touching example of a standing wave.  |
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Post by mnwild on Dec 14, 2009 20:03:30 GMT -5
I don't know if this was mentioned on another thread already, but ntrain42 really needs to get his own avatar.
I've been reading roadrunner's posts for a long time and I really respect his opinions. I don't want to get the two mixed up, like I almost did on this thread.
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Post by jmilton on Dec 14, 2009 20:19:09 GMT -5
...so you don't respect ntrain? Cold, brother, cold.  |
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Post by jmilton on Dec 14, 2009 20:25:51 GMT -5
Your "standing wave" can sit on my lap anytime.
Your point was well stated. Fulls work for some and not for others. Viva la difference!
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Post by flamingeye on Dec 14, 2009 21:02:43 GMT -5
I agree that one or the other can work great and one can work better then the other it all depends on the room what one wants out of there system and how much work they want to put into it , unfortunately I have all the time in the world but limited physical ability to do it now , thank goodness I had my son to do the heavy lifting before he want to college
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Post by jmilton on Dec 14, 2009 21:19:18 GMT -5
Rock on, Eye!  |
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Post by RayoVac on Dec 14, 2009 21:26:21 GMT -5
I don't know if this was mentioned on another thread already, but ntrain42 really needs to get his own avatar. I've been reading roadrunner's posts for a long time and I really respect his opinions. I don't want to get the two mixed up, like I almost did on this thread. ;D ;D ;D ;D |
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Post by briank on Dec 14, 2009 21:31:36 GMT -5
+2 on ntrain getting his own Avatar. RR's had that one for so long, I think RR when I see it, at least until I start reading the post. ;D
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Post by Nemesis.ie on Dec 16, 2009 6:40:14 GMT -5
CN: I took your comment to mean "all signals they are sent (within their rated spec)". |
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ntrain42
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Post by ntrain42 on Dec 16, 2009 21:22:26 GMT -5
Sorry maybe I misread, but I thought we were talking in a post above about having a HT system with all full range speakers operating down to as far as 40Hz. Try eliminating standing waves (or sitting or kneeling waves) in the 40-80 range for all 5 or 7 speakers without moving them. Regardless of running full range speakers, or sat/sub systems, I have NEVER run into "standing wave issues". There may be areas in the room where you run into reinforcement or cancellation, no question about it, but at the seating positions themselves I have never had an issue getting full blown full range floor standers or sub/sat systems to integrate seamlessly. |
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Post by Deleted on Dec 16, 2009 22:19:01 GMT -5
Regardless of running full range speakers, or sat/sub systems, I have NEVER run into "standing wave issues". There may be areas in the room where you run into reinforcement or cancellation, no question about it, but at the seating positions themselves I have never had an issue getting full blown full range floor standers or sub/sat systems to integrate seamlessly. Ntrain42, I wish I had your luck! ;D I'm Irish, but no such luck. Most of my setups have had peaks to be eliminated. That is why all the EQ systems in receivers, pre-pro's and now in subs. |
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Post by tchaik on Dec 16, 2009 22:41:41 GMT -5
what about sitting or kneeling waves?
tchaik................
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ntrain42
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Post by ntrain42 on Dec 16, 2009 23:59:36 GMT -5
Regardless of running full range speakers, or sat/sub systems, I have NEVER run into "standing wave issues". There may be areas in the room where you run into reinforcement or cancellation, no question about it, but at the seating positions themselves I have never had an issue getting full blown full range floor standers or sub/sat systems to integrate seamlessly. Ntrain42, I wish I had your luck! ;D I'm Irish, but no such luck. Most of my setups have had peaks to be eliminated. That is why all the EQ systems in receivers, pre-pro's and now in subs. Peaks are VERY EASY to eliminate, dips/cancellation takes more work. |
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Post by Deleted on Dec 17, 2009 0:09:04 GMT -5
what about sitting or kneeling waves?. Doc, here are some sitting waves. I'm still working on the kneeling wave. ;D  |
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Post by Deleted on Dec 17, 2009 3:35:41 GMT -5
Bingo! ;D  |
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Post by SDMonkey on Dec 26, 2009 3:44:10 GMT -5
This is the first time I have ever heard anything negative about any "Surround" speaker in general use for HT. SO, what is the deal here, why are they bad? I just placed an order for a set of ERD-1s, something I have wanted to do for a very long time. NOW they suck, stick to my little Energy Take 5 satellite speakers I have for surround duty over the ERD-1s? I don't get it, you lost me at Dipoles are something bad and to stick to full range speakers only. What to do, What to do........... MAN am I confused about what has been said in this thread. Oh well I guess I will just have to find out how bad the ERDs suck compared to my Energy Take 5 speakers.
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Post by Deleted on Dec 26, 2009 4:59:07 GMT -5
SDMonkey, I currently have the ERD-1's with my ERM-1's. Several systems ago I owned two complete Energy Take Five systems. So I am very familiar with both speakers. The Take Five system is one of the all-time best bang for the buck small size HT speaker systems every made. That small Energy 8" sub is a jewel. I also feel the same about the much higher performing Emotiva ERM and ERD 4 ohm series.
I'm a little confused because it says in your signature that you have the C-1's and the C-R1 would be the perfect voice match in the original series for the surround speaker. Then you say you have the take 5?
JMilton's posts hit it right on the nose. Yes, all things being equal, and that means having the room for all full range speakers (which 95% of folks do not), and the chosen position for placement of every speaker causing no significant room anomalies (standing waves, etc.)(this is almost never the case and 5 or 7 channel equalization is required in the 100Hz and below range), then yes having all full range speakers is great. However, this is almost always impractical for most folks on this planet.
The advent of high quality subwoofers, in single or multiple locations, along with the blended use of smaller speakers for 3, 5 or all 7 of the speakers has been a Godsend for affordable and practical 5.1+ or 7.1+ systems. When properly blended with sub/speaker crossovers and related EQ adjustments, great sounding HT systems utilizing small speakers for most or all speaker locations is possible.
What some don't realize is that the top performing subwoofer (from 125Hz or so to near or even below 20Hz) is simply extending the frequency range of the traditional full range floorstanding speaker (about 35-50Hz) and bookshelf speaker (about 50-100Hz) past the previous 30-40 Hz bottom of most musical sources. With the external powered sub the frequency range is now extended down to the 10-25Hz range (depending on the sub). This lower range is necessary to reproduce the lower fundamental tones in modern movie soundtracks and pipe organ and synthesized music. There are a number of advantages in passing the bass frequencies from 100Hz and below off to a quality subwoofer especially for the surround channels.
Small speakers like the ERD-1 are great speaker with very high power handling. The lowest bass is passed over to the sub thru the speakers setup procedures in your receiver or pre-pro.
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DYohn
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Post by DYohn on Dec 26, 2009 10:17:26 GMT -5
SDMonkey, here's my advice: ignore this thread. Order the ERD-1's and see if you like them. If they are not for you, re-sell them and move on.
It's not life threatening: it's only home theater.
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Post by TRT on Dec 26, 2009 11:11:18 GMT -5
I use ERD-1's for side surrounds along with Paradigm Studio Loudspeakers and they timbre match just fine.
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Post by Nemesis.ie on Dec 26, 2009 11:12:10 GMT -5
If you don't like the ERD-1 dipole sound, you can run them in bi-pole. |
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