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Post by Wideawake on Feb 7, 2010 15:18:12 GMT -5
Would you please post FR and other measurements of your speakers?
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lonnie
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Post by lonnie on Feb 7, 2010 15:21:50 GMT -5
Thanks for the review. We spent a lot of time on the EQs to get them right. You are correct, they do have a Q of 1 so they are somewhat narrow band but not so narrow as to be a notch. The pre-amp and audio section of the UMC was really important to me during the design and testing so I am really glad to hear you like it. ;D Here is a tip for you that I don't think most people know. With any of the analog inputs, if you select Direct, it becomes a pure analog path. You will loose the bass management and EQs but if you like a pure path, its the way to go. So if you ever try it, let me know what you think.  Interesting, I did not know that. I'll try it later today and see if there is a noticeable difference. IMO you got the audio section just right. I am very impressed with the performance and with the flexibility of the EQ. I also love the multiple EQ memory registers and the fact that I can assign different curves to different inputs. Very sweet. Glad you like it. Give the analog a try and let me know what you think. Just remeber it is pure analog so no bass management or EQ.  |
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Post by Deleted on Feb 7, 2010 20:50:17 GMT -5
Lonnie: One could also use the Multi Channel inputs and the sub input (from the 2nd ERC output jack) if I wanted to use the ERC-1. What would yield a purer path, the "Direct" option or the Multi Channel inputs ? Yes, you could do that as well. Both options are pure paths through the volume control to the outputs, so neither is better than the other as far as performance. Thanks Lonnie. I thought of the Multi Channel inputs because I can then have sub control, whereas with "Direct" you can't have that. |
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Post by cattleya on Feb 8, 2010 4:21:50 GMT -5
[ Here is a tip for you that I don't think most people know. With any of the analog inputs, if you select Direct, it becomes a pure analog path. You will loose the bass management and EQs but if you like a pure path, its the way to go. So if you ever try it, let me know what you think. Dear Lonnie! Did I read that right? I was under the strong impression that all stereo inputs would be digitized and one difference of the XMC would be to offer one "pure analogue stereo input". So I could use my external DAC for CDs and the signal would stay in the analogue domain in the UMC? This would be great! In fact the only reason I did not order the UMC would be gone! But: What is then the difference to the "pure analogue stereo unput" of the XMC? Thanks in advance for a confirmation and answer. |
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Chris
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Post by Chris on Feb 8, 2010 12:16:27 GMT -5
[ Here is a tip for you that I don't think most people know. With any of the analog inputs, if you select Direct, it becomes a pure analog path. You will loose the bass management and EQs but if you like a pure path, its the way to go. So if you ever try it, let me know what you think. Dear Lonnie! Did I read that right? I was under the strong impression that all stereo inputs would be digitized and one difference of the XMC would be to offer one "pure analogue stereo input". So I could use my external DAC for CDs and the signal would stay in the analogue domain in the UMC? This would be great! In fact the only reason I did not order the UMC would be gone! But: What is then the difference to the "pure analogue stereo unput" of the XMC? Thanks in advance for a confirmation and answer. OMG, could Emotiva please settle this once and for all! Between this and the confusion over whether the UMC-1 can handle DSD natively I'm about to tear my hair out! I have a very high end vinyl rig and had planned to use the Multi channel input on the UMC-1 since I had been led to understand that all other analog inputs were converting to digital. Now you seem to say that using the "Direct Mode" you can use the two channel analog inputs as "pure" that is "no digital conversion" inputs? I really would plead with Emotiva to publish a complete and accurate specifications matrix for the UMC-1 that clearly states what makes the UMC-1 tick! It is only fair for the customer. What's the point of having features "that I don't think most people know"? Buying hi-fi components shouldn't be a treasure hunt? I know everyone is busy at Emotiva but how hard is it to properly document the UMC-1 feature set at this point? You've done the hard work and gotten working units out the door. Please take a few moments to finish the job with proper technical specifications documentation. Thanks. -CB |
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DYohn
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Post by DYohn on Feb 8, 2010 12:48:52 GMT -5
It seems like Lonnie's comment: "With any of the analog inputs, if you select Direct, it becomes a pure analog path." pretty much settles the question doesn't it?
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DYohn
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Post by DYohn on Feb 8, 2010 12:49:40 GMT -5
Would you please post FR and other measurements of your speakers? I'd love to but I don't have any of them saved. Next time I set up the RTA I'll grab an in-room sweep for ya. |
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lonnie
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Post by lonnie on Feb 8, 2010 13:57:43 GMT -5
[ Here is a tip for you that I don't think most people know. With any of the analog inputs, if you select Direct, it becomes a pure analog path. You will loose the bass management and EQs but if you like a pure path, its the way to go. So if you ever try it, let me know what you think. Dear Lonnie! Did I read that right? I was under the strong impression that all stereo inputs would be digitized and one difference of the XMC would be to offer one "pure analogue stereo input". So I could use my external DAC for CDs and the signal would stay in the analogue domain in the UMC? This would be great! In fact the only reason I did not order the UMC would be gone! But: What is then the difference to the "pure analogue stereo unput" of the XMC? Thanks in advance for a confirmation and answer. Yes, any of the analog inputs when selected to run in Direct mode are pure analog and do not get A/D and D/A. Any other mode or format will run through the DSP, but Direct is pure analog. |
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lonnie
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Post by lonnie on Feb 8, 2010 14:00:27 GMT -5
Dear Lonnie! Did I read that right? I was under the strong impression that all stereo inputs would be digitized and one difference of the XMC would be to offer one "pure analogue stereo input". So I could use my external DAC for CDs and the signal would stay in the analogue domain in the UMC? This would be great! In fact the only reason I did not order the UMC would be gone! But: What is then the difference to the "pure analogue stereo unput" of the XMC? Thanks in advance for a confirmation and answer. OMG, could Emotiva please settle this once and for all! Between this and the confusion over whether the UMC-1 can handle DSD natively I'm about to tear my hair out! I have a very high end vinyl rig and had planned to use the Multi channel input on the UMC-1 since I had been led to understand that all other analog inputs were converting to digital. Now you seem to say that using the "Direct Mode" you can use the two channel analog inputs as "pure" that is "no digital conversion" inputs? I really would plead with Emotiva to publish a complete and accurate specifications matrix for the UMC-1 that clearly states what makes the UMC-1 tick! It is only fair for the customer. What's the point of having features "that I don't think most people know"? Buying hi-fi components shouldn't be a treasure hunt? I know everyone is busy at Emotiva but how hard is it to properly document the UMC-1 feature set at this point? You've done the hard work and gotten working units out the door. Please take a few moments to finish the job with proper technical specifications documentation. Thanks. -CB With all due respect I believe I have covered this many, many times before. But what harm can one more time do. Cirrus as a company has chosen not to support DSD, thus the UMC will not decode DSD, but will decode high bandwidth Multi-channel PCM. You can use any of the analog inputs and when run in Direct mode will be pure analog and not run through the DSP. Hope this helps. |
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Chris
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Post by Chris on Feb 8, 2010 21:00:36 GMT -5
With all due respect I believe I have covered this many, many times before. But what harm can one more time do. Cirrus as a company has chosen not to support DSD, thus the UMC will not decode DSD, but will decode high bandwidth Multi-channel PCM. You can use any of the analog inputs and when run in Direct mode will be pure analog and not run through the DSP. Hope this helps. Hi Lonnie, I am extremely grateful for your direct reply on these topics. Yes, you stated in the other thread that there was no DSD support in the UMC-1 but then there was still a lot of discussion and there's still a guy there that still thinks he's getting DSD because his Oppo displays DSD while the UMC-1 displays PCM! Anyway, I'm fine with PCM. I just wanted to know. Also, there have been myriad threads where people quoted various conversations with Emotiva's employees over the months that seemed to indicate that the only way to get pure Analog direct was using the UMC-1 multi-channel inputs. You have now revealed that this is not so and that using "Direct Mode" one can get pure analog through the UMC-1 and avoid needless A/D and D/A. This is an amazing revelation for me and quite welcome indeed. I'm just suggesting you could avoid at least some confusion among some of your more dim witted customers (which I will happily admit that I am one), if you would just publish a page with a check list of specifications that we could consult. Thank you for your consideration. -CB |
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NorthStar
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Post by NorthStar on Feb 8, 2010 21:27:19 GMT -5
^ That is a great post here just above.
Onkyo, I'm not sure if they always display properly what comes in, or even what goes out?
I know that mine is doing tricks on me, when I fastforward during a movie on Blu-ray!
There is a very annoying noise, like the digital audio from the DSP or DACs chip, is corrupted and making that whining noise.
Another thing; from one day to the next, it (my Onkyo AVR) seems to sound different too! I'm at lost as to know why; maybe it's just that my hearing had a rough ride these last few weeks!
One thing that I know for sure though, my Onkyo is not playing fair game with me; it simply ain't cooked properly. And there is no way for me to upgrade the firmware at home. And just forget it about sending my unit to the closest service center, which is in another country!
Seriously, this is my actual situation for both my Onkyo 805, and also 876 somehow too, just not as bad as my 805. And then, if I want one of the newer models from the XX07 series, they have different type of bugs, that cannot even be resolved by firmwares at home!
Ya, Onkyo, great price value, no wonder...
You know, that's how it goes in life, with everything; it's always a COMPROMISE that you have to make.
Nothing's perfect... Only in your head.
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Post by doc1963 on Feb 9, 2010 6:35:13 GMT -5
Hello All,
Just some clarification on SACD support for those who own the UMC-1 and the OPPO BDP-83.
I own the BDP-83 (and am awaiting my UMC-1) and can verify that the OPPO does support SACD and can deliver the signal two ways. One, through its own analog outputs. Two, digitally via HDMI.
If one chooses the HDMI route, you have two set-up options within the BDP-83. Bitstream the DSD signal or convert the DSD to PCM internally.
Those owners of the BDP-83 either have the DSD decoding being done internally, or the BDP-83 is sensing, via handshake, that the UCM-1 does NOT support DSD and doing the decoding automatically.
If this is, in fact, the case, the BDP-83 will display DSD (as that is the source format) and the UMC-1 will display PCM (as that is what it is receiving).
Hope this helps.
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Post by Nemesis.ie on Feb 9, 2010 6:38:33 GMT -5
That makes sense. Good first post. ;-)
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hemster
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Post by hemster on Feb 9, 2010 8:51:39 GMT -5
Thanks doc, that helps.
I do have both the UMC-1 and the OPPO BDP-83. I do no yet own any SACDs but am starting to look into buying them. At the risk of expecting an answer such as "..it depends on your hearing" I'll ask my question:
For SACDs, which is the better option? Use the analog connection from the OPPO into the UMC-1 or HDMI?
I'm hoping people will contribute pros/cons of each approach.
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Post by doc1963 on Feb 9, 2010 23:15:40 GMT -5
Honestly, It does somewhat depend on your "discernible ear". It also depends on the quality of the master recording (which is a result of the experience and artistry of the recording and mastering engineers.) Let's face it, these days, most recording are just plain "loud" with no tonal or dynamic "quality" whatsoever.
DSD is, in and of itself, a "high resolution" format capable of a perfect reproduction of the original master recording. However, I, personally, have found few recordings that are truly "head and shoulders" superior to their redbook CD counterpart. Your mileage may vary.
How you connect your BDP-83 will depend on the capabilities of the rest of your system. Since the UMC-1 does not support DSD, the BDP-83 will have to do the decoding internally.
If you choose the analog path out of the BDP-83, you will have a few "pluses" and a few "minuses" on both ends to consider. First, the UMC-1 maintains a pure analog path on the 7.1 inputs (as well as the 2ch analog inputs when set to "direct") avoiding additional A/D-D/A conversions, so that's a big plus. However, you lose bass management, EQ and room correction. That may be a big minus since the BDP-83 can do none of that.
If you choose to set the BDP-83 to convert DSD to PCM and output via HDMI, you still maintain the quality of the original DSD signal (remember - the conversion MUST take place somewhere), but still retain all of the benefits of the UMC-1.
Personally, I don't know which route I will take since I don't have a UMC as of yet. I've had my BDP-83 upgraded to a "SE" and will also be using my USP-1 in conjunction with the UMC. So, I don't know which will sound better in "my" setup.
Hope this helps.
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hemster
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Post by hemster on Feb 9, 2010 23:21:39 GMT -5
^^ Thanks doc. That does help. Most likely I will choose to have the Oppo convert the DSD to PCM and send to UMC-1. So that I can use the bass management and room EQ.
Please post your observations once you get yours setup.
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DYohn
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Post by DYohn on Feb 12, 2010 12:38:30 GMT -5
Interesting, I did not know that. I'll try it later today and see if there is a noticeable difference. IMO you got the audio section just right. I am very impressed with the performance and with the flexibility of the EQ. I also love the multiple EQ memory registers and the fact that I can assign different curves to different inputs. Very sweet. Glad you like it. Give the analog a try and let me know what you think. Just remeber it is pure analog so no bass management or EQ. FYI, switching to Direct is a very clean signal path that is noticably different sounding, and I think the analog purists will be happy with the results. Me, i like adding my subwoofer into the mix and I like my EQ settings, so I'll leave the DSP in signal path. Nice flexibility to have, though! |
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DYohn
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Post by DYohn on Feb 23, 2010 14:13:38 GMT -5
UPDATE re: the periodic audio "drop outs" I experienced while watching the DirecTV HR20 DVR previously reported.
I noticed last night that when the "drop outs" occur, the UMC-1 displays that the audio mode has changed from Dolby Digital to Digital 2.0. Partly spurred by the discussion of bass management and how the settings in the Advanced Playback menu might affect this (thank you SolidState) I decided to try an experiment.
I entered the Advanced Playback menu and checked the default setting for "Digital 2.0" which is "Direct." Remembering the discussion of how "direct" modes bypass bass management I selected a new mode "Dolby Digital." Instantly, the switching between modes stopped. The audio drop outs stopped. I was able to watch 3 hours of the normally unstable NBC Olympics coverage without suffering through a single "drop out" issue.
My theory is there is an unstable audio stream coming from the DirecTV DVR that is causing the UMC-1 to switch back and forth between Dolby Digital and Digital 2.0 modes, creating what seems to be an audio drop-out that is really due to the second or two it takes to lock onto the new audio stream. With both modes set to the same decoding default, the UMC-1 no longer tries to switch between them as is sees them as the same, even if the DVR signal is unstable. I will do some more testing to verify that this work-around solves the issue, but for now it seems the power of the UMC-1 is able to compensate for the unstable HR20.
Also, I noticed the default setting for "PCM" was also "Direct," so I switched this to "PLIIX-Movies" just in case.
I encourage others who may be having similar audio issues to give this a try. Please report back if it has any effect on your systems.
David
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Post by tchaik on Feb 23, 2010 14:22:11 GMT -5
dyohn,
you have just settled my weary heart with your discovery of the direct tv issue.
i now feel with complete confidence that the umc will do what i need it to do without needless interruption or minimal problems.
thanks...........
tchaik.............
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topcat
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Post by topcat on Feb 23, 2010 14:27:58 GMT -5
dyohn, this is the kind of post that I appreciate most. My system was set up so "direct" was not the selection I had chosen but love having the info for me to "look" and see what I have for the option. Thanks for your time in doing this.
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