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Post by WhiskeyScroggins on Feb 11, 2010 15:01:08 GMT -5
I guess Loopinfool suggests what he does in order for the EmoQ to not set the crossover at too high a frequency, by it mistaking a smaller dip higher up for the final low-end drop-off frequency. This may not be feasible or practical, but by programming the EmoQ to look for a larger drop (say 9dB instead of 3dB), one would mimimize the risk of this happening. Yes, although as Lonnie points out it would also defeat the purpose of automatically setting crossover... unless the algorithm did something like detect -9db and then set the crossover an octave above that... or something. In any case, the proper method is to let the auto function run, then enter the screens manually and make whatever changes you feel are necessary for your system. Or just live with the auto settings. Agreed that manual adjustments are always recommended after any auto room EQ, but if it's really setting things up with 250hz crossovers, etc. then it's really just broken! It's one thing to make minor adjustments to your particular liking, it's completely another if the settings look like they were just chosen at random! At the end of the day it's listed as a big feature and needs to work at least as well as all the other industry standard auto eq systems work from the likes of Denon, Yamaha, Onkyo, etc. |
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Post by jahays32 on Feb 11, 2010 15:09:40 GMT -5
Lonnie how are the discrete codes coming along. If I had the harmony codes installed I would be a very happy emot. ;D
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Post by pmd918 on Feb 11, 2010 15:11:59 GMT -5
Hello everyone, I just received the following email from preorders: Hello, Please be advised we have an estimated shipping date for your UMC-1 of: March 5th 2010 We will contact you 10-14 days prior to this date to complete your purchase. Thank you for your support and patience. Your friends at Emotiva The question is should I go ahead and pick one of these up. I just purchased the Denon 4810 and it works flawlessly but I am starting to become a big two channel listener and as always I'm curious and intrigued by separates. Any help would be appreciated. I signed up for the second preorder list in late September or October. Not really sure when. Or would I be better off purchasing the USP-1 and see how it stacks up to the Denon's analogue stage. I must say the issues so far with the UMC-1 has me a little concerned and the Denon sounds pretty good as well.  Your Denon receiver is a pretty nice unit. I would be surprised if there were a big difference in SQ. But if I were in your shoes, since you've already sunk the money into the 4810, I would definitely get the UMC-1 and do a side-by-side comparison. The only cost to you would be the shipping if you decided not to keep the UMC-1. This assumes, of course, that you have an amp that you can use for the comparison. |
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Post by gocolts on Feb 11, 2010 15:26:34 GMT -5
What are people setting their subwoofer crossovers to? Mine won't let me set it to anything but some odd numbers that you have to hold down the arrows forever to even let me change. Same thing for the rear surround crossovers.... You need to reload factory defaults to fix this problem. Thanks!  Bad news is that if I reload those, it'll take away all my custom labels and input settings, won't it? |
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DYohn
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Post by DYohn on Feb 11, 2010 15:32:56 GMT -5
You need to reload factory defaults to fix this problem. Thanks! Bad news is that if I reload those, it'll take away all my custom labels and input settings, won't it? Yes. You'll have to redo them. |
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Post by dkjohn on Feb 11, 2010 16:41:51 GMT -5
After all the trouble I had with the firmware upgrade and the computer not seeing the UMC-1 I hope everything works right I don't want that headache again anyone think it was just a fluke or maybe a better way to update would be nice or just find a USB driver that is not so touchy.
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Post by moe on Feb 11, 2010 17:45:26 GMT -5
You need to reload factory defaults to fix this problem. Thanks! Bad news is that if I reload those, it'll take away all my custom labels and input settings, won't it? Bad news? maybe 5 or 10 minutes of your time. |
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Post by thompson12 on Feb 11, 2010 18:11:10 GMT -5
Update finely worked yesterday, First tried it on a one week old hp dv6 laptop win 7 no luck, then an older dell laptop win xp pro no luck,a DIY HTPC gigabyte board with AMD 940 black 8 gig ram so plenty of speed no luck, a two year old Compaq laptop win 7 no luck, tried with winrar 32 & 64 and 7zip(the OS's were all 64 bit)
So I got out the restore discs for the Compaq laptop (vista 32 bit) restored it back to OE out of the box setup, downloaded winrar 32 and EMO updates again, did the update step by step and it worked with ease, I did not time it expecting it to not work, it only took a few minutes to update.
Prior to update auto emo-q was way off and different every time I ran it, After update and auto emo-q speaker distance was right on crossovers are still off it set front to full surrounds to 20 & 40 and center 40 sub to 60 and it is still adding a rear speaker that is not there, eq settings are off they just look like random settings one speaker was just flat line, I only ran emo-q one time as it was midnight till I got it set up after plowing and cleaning snow all day, SQ seamed to be better but not 100% sure on that as I did not listen more then a few minutes I'll play with it more tonight and a lot more this weekend
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klinemj
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Post by klinemj on Feb 11, 2010 18:29:56 GMT -5
I have some questions to those who have either already been successful getting their firmware updated OR those who might have already received their new UMC1 with factory-installed new firmware.
Specifically, there were a number of issues reported early on that led to the rapid firmware update. I am wondering how the new firmware has done in dealing with those issues.
Specific issues of interest to me that I read were:
1) EMO-Q: really loud tones that trigger amps to go into protect mode, getting strange x-over levels (like, 250 for fronts, 80 for surrounds...), distances not being right until after repeated runs. Note that I know from other threads that some are still reporting strange x-over levels, but what about the loud tones that trigger amps into protect mode & the distance errors? Gone now? And, how common is the "strange x-over" finding?
2) Sound on 7.1 inputs was reported by a few as poor (like blown speaker sounds, per Grapenuts...aka Adam...original review). A thing of the past now?
3) UMC remote triggering the USP...from what I hear from Emo's direct responses to me, this is not fixed yet but they are working on it - so unless someone says theirs magically is working right now, I'll take Emo's word...
4) Some reported the UMC reverting to 480p resolution after power off/back on cycles even though the TV could do 1080p...gone now?
5) Some reported audio cutouts at various times, like in switching settings or putting various sources into pause then resuming. Gone now?
Thanks for any answers. FYI, just yesterday, I just got my "it's time" note from Janna asking for my credit card info (with a 2/22 ship date!), but I'd like to know the status of fixes in the real world before I trigger an order. Also FYI, I did ask to be (and was put into) a "holding pattern" to await resolution of the issue of the "UMC remote activating the USP" (note that I am already a USP-1 owner, so I don't really want a UMC-1 until that issue is fixed). I thought that was quite nice of them to do this for me. (And, for many of you who don't own a USP-1...you get to cut in line in front of me while I wait for that to be solved!)
Thanks again for any answers...
Mark
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Post by agehring on Feb 11, 2010 18:45:38 GMT -5
Is there anyone left still having issues with getting firmware installed, that hasn't already sent in their unit? I ask because I've made a Windows PE disk with the update utilities on it, and have it in ISO format, but I can't test it as I don't have a UMC-1 (Yet  ) This image should boot on about anything. It boots, and the program runs, on my Mac Mini, Macbook Pro and and Mac Pro. It also booted on a old IBM Thinkpad (T21) that I have... PM if you're interested in testing/trying... Andrew |
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Post by dkjohn on Feb 11, 2010 18:55:51 GMT -5
Is there anyone left still having issues with getting firmware installed, that hasn't already sent in their unit? I ask because I've made a Windows PE disk with the update utilities on it, and have it in ISO format, but I can't test it as I don't have a UMC-1 (Yet ) This image should boot on about anything. It boots, and the program runs, on my Mac Mini, Macbook Pro and and Mac Pro. It also booted on a old IBM Thinkpad (T21) that I have... PM if you're interested in testing/trying... Andrew I'll try it if you let me aready did the upgrade but would like to have a better way of doing it next time unless EMO gets a better system that does not have the current problems. |
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Post by loopinfool on Feb 11, 2010 19:40:17 GMT -5
I guess Loopinfool suggests what he does in order for the EmoQ to not set the crossover at too high a frequency, by it mistaking a smaller dip higher up for the final low-end drop-off frequency. This may not be feasible or practical, but by programming the EmoQ to look for a larger drop (say 9dB instead of 3dB), one would mimimize the risk of this happening. Yes, although as Lonnie points out it would also defeat the purpose of automatically setting crossover... unless the algorithm did something like detect -9db and then set the crossover an octave above that... or something. Precisely. I wouldn't expect it to set the crossover there, just not stop looking for the crossover point until it found the real final dip at the low end of the frequency sweep. I don't expect that Emo-Q is doing things as simply as what Lonnie stated. But, people do have plenty of -10dB room modes. One common one is the floor/ceiling reflection problem, and the other is big nodes down low without bass traps. Emo-Q seems to be hitting the ~200Hz first reflection dip and setting people's crossovers to 250, which is clearly wrong (unless they have Bose cubes  ). - LoopinFool |
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lonnie
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Post by lonnie on Feb 11, 2010 19:43:40 GMT -5
I have some questions to those who have either already been successful getting their firmware updated OR those who might have already received their new UMC1 with factory-installed new firmware. Specifically, there were a number of issues reported early on that led to the rapid firmware update. I am wondering how the new firmware has done in dealing with those issues. Specific issues of interest to me that I read were: 1) EMO-Q: really loud tones that trigger amps to go into protect mode, getting strange x-over levels (like, 250 for fronts, 80 for surrounds...), distances not being right until after repeated runs. Note that I know from other threads that some are still reporting strange x-over levels, but what about the loud tones that trigger amps into protect mode & the distance errors? Gone now? And, how common is the "strange x-over" finding? 2) Sound on 7.1 inputs was reported by a few as poor (like blown speaker sounds, per Grapenuts...aka Adam...original review). A thing of the past now? 3) UMC remote triggering the USP...from what I hear from Emo's direct responses to me, this is not fixed yet but they are working on it - so unless someone says theirs magically is working right now, I'll take Emo's word... 4) Some reported the UMC reverting to 480p resolution after power off/back on cycles even though the TV could do 1080p...gone now? 5) Some reported audio cutouts at various times, like in switching settings or putting various sources into pause then resuming. Gone now? Thanks for any answers. FYI, just yesterday, I just got my "it's time" note from Janna asking for my credit card info (with a 2/22 ship date!), but I'd like to know the status of fixes in the real world before I trigger an order. Also FYI, I did ask to be (and was put into) a "holding pattern" to await resolution of the issue of the "UMC remote activating the USP" (note that I am already a USP-1 owner, so I don't really want a UMC-1 until that issue is fixed). I thought that was quite nice of them to do this for me. (And, for many of you who don't own a USP-1...you get to cut in line in front of me while I wait for that to be solved!) Thanks again for any answers... Mark 1. Emo-Q test tones lowered by 6db. 2. Corrected 3. resolution found but not in this. Will release fix in a couple of weeks. 4. corrected 5. corrected, at least as much as we can test (we don't have every cable box made ;D ) Hope this helps |
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Post by ackbar on Feb 11, 2010 19:51:17 GMT -5
2) Dolby True HD via a Toshiba XA2 HD DVD player, being bitstreamed, loses the signal any time you forward ahead a chapter, so you have to choose a different input and go back to it with the UMC-1, and it picks it up again. Annoying, but I just switched the XA2 to output PCM and it doesn't do it... I have this exact same problem with my A35... I think I posted about it earlier in this thread. I did figure out, the same as you, that it works converting to LPCM... I just wish I didn't have to do that. Anyone else have issues with a PCM stream at 176.4 not playing audio via HDMI? (early PS3 playing a SACD, either 2 channel or multi-channel) I had to disable that in my PS3's setup menu, but it works fine at the next step down (88khz or whatever that is) I noticed a similar problem with the 176.4khz audio. The PS3 seems to like upconverting any stereo CD audio or streamed PCM to the highest possible bitrate (in this case 176.4). I can stick in the Blue Man Group: Audio CD and it works fine. However, streaming from my MacBook is hit and miss. I have to go through a bunch of stop/starting the song to get the UMC to start decoding it. And if there's a network hiccup (it's over wireless), the music dies and never comes back. If I drop the frequency to only the 88.2khz capable audio signal or lower, it picks up everything fine. Even network hiccups come back within a second. The UMC fully supports 176.4 doesn't it? OK, here is a question for you. Why in the world would you be looking for a -9db point to set you crossovers? At -9db the signal level would be 1/8 that of reference. With 12db crossover slopes you would have a hole in the frequency response that spanned a couple of octaves. I would think that it would be possible to look at the slope of the dropoff. Instead of just looking at the signal as a comparator for -3db, mark the -3db point and then watch to see if the signal rises back up again. If it drops -3db, then it drops another -3db, and never rebounds, it's obviously the limit of the speaker. If it does rebound, it would be either a room issue or a poor internal speaker crossover. If the rebound occurs, I would think it should continue until it finds the true dropoff (look for another -3db point and monitor for a continuous decrease) and use the EQ to fix the dropoff frequency. *Edited for clarity. |
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klinemj
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Post by klinemj on Feb 11, 2010 20:20:40 GMT -5
Lonnie - thanks a million...your answers were quite helpful. Coupling those w/your video explaining the x-over choices of the UMC-1 makes me better understand how to use the EMO-Q. I also like your frank comments near the end of the video regarding your thoughts on flat response vs. each to their own liking. It makes sense.
I look forward to the fix on the UMC/USP remote...I'll stay on hold until then. (Then I have to make the UMC/XMC call...damn decisions...but, at least I have options...)
Thanks again,
Mark
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Post by thompson12 on Feb 11, 2010 21:28:22 GMT -5
OK I just ran emo-q 3 more times (with new update) first time FL 20HZ C 20 FR 20 SR 50 SL 60 SUB 70 speaker distance close on second time FL 70 C 20 FR 250 SR 50 SL 40 SUB 70 speaker distance way off third time the reading were different again but the OSD screen timed out before I recored the readings OK so if emo-q is to get you to a good starting point and only need fine tweaks from there shouldn't the reading be the same or close to the same every time you run emo-q if nothing in the room changes? |
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Post by jstoddard on Feb 11, 2010 21:48:11 GMT -5
4) Some reported the UMC reverting to 480p resolution after power off/back on cycles even though the TV could do 1080p...gone now? 4. corrected Hope this helps Lonnie - I am still having this issue after a successful firmware update (I did not have this before the update). I am using component output and a mix of component and non-HDCP HDMI sources. Ideally I'd set the UMC-1 on pass-through (long story), or even 1080i-60hz, but every time I turn the unit off and turn it back on, it reverts to 480p. Any suggestions? Try re-updating firmware? Reset to factory defaults again? Otherwise, I can call the office tomorrow during business hours. Thanks, Jeff |
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Post by red5ive on Feb 11, 2010 21:51:53 GMT -5
I noticed a similar problem with the 176.4khz audio. The PS3 seems to like upconverting any stereo CD audio or streamed PCM to the highest possible bitrate (in this case 176.4). I can stick in the Blue Man Group: Audio CD and it works fine. However, streaming from my MacBook is hit and miss. I have to go through a bunch of stop/starting the song to get the UMC to start decoding it. And if there's a network hiccup (it's over wireless), the music dies and never comes back. If I drop the frequency to only the 88.2khz capable audio signal or lower, it picks up everything fine. Even network hiccups come back within a second. The UMC fully supports 176.4 doesn't it? You can change the frequency in the PS3 Sound and Music settings. If you choose 44.1 kHz for Output Frequency in the Music Settings, 88.2 kHz and 176.4 kHz are the options for higher resolutions (factors of 44.1, of course). The actual frequencies themselves can be enabled/disabled in the Sound Settings for 2 channel, 5.1, and 7.1, with exception to the base 44.1 and 48 kHz frequencies. I'm not having any issues with 176.4 kHz from the PS3 to the UMC-1 via HDMI, though I don't use it much. I also have no issues at 192 kHz from my PC via coax, which I've used more extensively, not for any particular reason other than because I tried it and haven't changed it back. ;D |
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Post by gocolts on Feb 11, 2010 22:15:14 GMT -5
4. corrected Hope this helps Lonnie - I am still having this issue after a successful firmware update (I did not have this before the update). I am using component output and a mix of component and non-HDCP HDMI sources. Ideally I'd set the UMC-1 on pass-through (long story), or even 1080i-60hz, but every time I turn the unit off and turn it back on, it reverts to 480p. Any suggestions? Try re-updating firmware? Reset to factory defaults again? Otherwise, I can call the office tomorrow during business hours. Thanks, Jeff I had the same issues with my component sources...I had to switch the video to 1080P/60fps, and now it's ok...for now. Everytime I think I have all the issues sorted out, something else comes up. I orignally thought I had another problem with the cable box using component through it, but it turned out that if you hook up your HDMI and component video cables out of a cable box, the cable box will only provide HD to the HDMI cable, not both. (Long story, wanted to see if inputs 1 & 9 could both do HD cable, one through component, and one through HDMI...). At least I think this is the case as my component connecting started working fine as soon as I disconnected the HDMI cable. |
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Post by wizardofoz on Feb 11, 2010 22:18:02 GMT -5
Being a bit of an IT guy....I cant help offering some suggestions for the update downloads.
Make the files self extracting - then there is no need to traumatise the non techies on installing yet another piece of clutter on an OS that is already bloated.
The PE idea is a good one and while a rather large file to download also comes with the need to burn an ISO - not for the faint of heart. It does have the benefit of not messing with your windows or mac system...assuming it can cope with hardware differences for the USB chipsets etc.
As an aside...I am not in the USA and RMA for a firmware upgrade is not something that Emotiva is likely to fund, so I am not sure if any overseas order fulfilments will be on the cards for some time to come. SO I sit here and watch the boards from afar but keeping my fingers crossed for all you guys who have your UMC-1's thanks you all for being patient with the Emoteam. You can be sure this was not in their plans, and beating up on them is just not productive.
Gong Xi Fa Choy (Happy Chinese New Year)
Paul - Singapore
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Bad news is that if I reload those, it'll take away all my custom labels and input settings, won't it? 
)
).
