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Post by rooster on Feb 10, 2010 12:28:19 GMT -5
A little video I found on correct mic placements for Audessy. I assume the same could be used for Emo-Q. Take note of how far from the back of the couch to place the mic. May help. Don't know. Thought I'd pass it on. "Garbage in=Garbage out" as the saying goes. www.youtube.com/watch?v=okyNlhJ3Hvothanks. this is much more productive than knee-jerk reactions that something must be broken. |
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Post by jason1976 on Feb 10, 2010 12:33:59 GMT -5
Yes I would be curious too if it wasn't mic related. Most of those freebe mics are not the best in the world. The biggest area they lack in is getting a consistent read across the room. The better mics like Ntrain is describing are more consistent with sound coming from different directions. One area I haven't seen alot of guidance on from Emo is where this mic should be placed relative to height when running Emoq.
For the folks getting the odd 250hz crossover point, where are you putting the mic?
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Post by rooster on Feb 10, 2010 12:39:06 GMT -5
Yes I would be curious too if it wasn't mic related. Most of those freebe mics are not the best in the world. The biggest area they lack in is getting a consistent read across the room. The better mics like Ntrain is describing are more consistent with sound coming from different directions. One area I haven't seen alot of guidance on from Emo is where this mic should be placed relative to height when running Emoq. For the folks getting the odd 250hz crossover point, where are you putting the mic? mine was on a tripod on the couch - literally where my head would be in the "sweet spot". will have to experiment. |
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ntrain42
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Post by ntrain42 on Feb 10, 2010 12:39:23 GMT -5
Honestly I agree that there are most likely bugs in the EMO-Q auto tune software which can be improved via an update. I also feel that alot of these autotune software functions shouldn't be included as well with all the brands. I mean come on, what can you honestly expect out of a 50 cent mic? Use common sense here. Id rather see an "optional" accessory package consisting of a much higher quality calibrated mic with a good dedicated software/visual feedback plug in that can potentially be much more accurate for the end user for those who feel the need to purchase it. I agree with that too. I think that the capability of the software is limited somewhat by the equipment. And I am sure that your RTA system does provide better measurements for the algorithms to work with (next time you're in Iowa, swing by and calibrate my system! ;D). My only point is that if it doesn't work, don't act like it does (and it Emo's defense, they have not. They have not chimed in telling us we're crazy, so it all might be bug and we are getting all a flutter for nothing). Hehe, if Im ever your way, Id be glad to help out. As for the autotune function, again my speculation is based on the fact that there may still be bugs to be worked out in the software, and that regardless it is still limited in its functionality in terms of fine tuning. But I do agree with and understand your stance 100%.  |
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ntrain42
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Post by ntrain42 on Feb 10, 2010 12:41:41 GMT -5
Honestly I agree that there are most likely bugs in the EMO-Q auto tune software which can be improved via an update. I also feel that alot of these autotune software functions shouldn't be included as well with all the brands. I mean come on, what can you honestly expect out of a 50 cent mic? Use common sense here. Id rather see an "optional" accessory package consisting of a much higher quality calibrated mic with a good dedicated software/visual feedback plug in that can potentially be much more accurate for the end user for those who feel the need to purchase it. good point. even with audyssey, you can't achieve a truly flat curve without the "pro" package, which includes an upgraded mic and software. of course you also have the option of paying for it to be professionally calibrated. Spot on! Good post! |
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Post by jason1976 on Feb 10, 2010 12:55:25 GMT -5
Yes I would be curious too if it wasn't mic related. Most of those freebe mics are not the best in the world. The biggest area they lack in is getting a consistent read across the room. The better mics like Ntrain is describing are more consistent with sound coming from different directions. One area I haven't seen alot of guidance on from Emo is where this mic should be placed relative to height when running Emoq. For the folks getting the odd 250hz crossover point, where are you putting the mic? mine was on a tripod on the couch - literally where my head would be in the "sweet spot". will have to experiment. Yes let us know if you get a different value as you move it around. Maybe you can help everyone with a recommended placement. I don't have a UMC yet otherwise I would jump in too. |
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Post by darien87 on Feb 10, 2010 13:03:54 GMT -5
Yes I would be curious too if it wasn't mic related. Most of those freebe mics are not the best in the world. The biggest area they lack in is getting a consistent read across the room. The better mics like Ntrain is describing are more consistent with sound coming from different directions. One area I haven't seen alot of guidance on from Emo is where this mic should be placed relative to height when running Emoq. For the folks getting the odd 250hz crossover point, where are you putting the mic? I was sitting in my listening position with the mic on top of my head. ;D I have a mic stand that I use when playing Rock Band. I think I'll see if there's a way that I can fix the mic to that and retry. I think I'll also try it moving around on the couch a little. |
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Post by jmilton on Feb 10, 2010 13:10:18 GMT -5
Yes I would be curious too if it wasn't mic related. Most of those freebe mics are not the best in the world. The biggest area they lack in is getting a consistent read across the room. The better mics like Ntrain is describing are more consistent with sound coming from different directions. One area I haven't seen alot of guidance on from Emo is where this mic should be placed relative to height when running Emoq. For the folks getting the odd 250hz crossover point, where are you putting the mic? I was sitting in my listening position with the mic on top of my head. ;D I have a mic stand that I use when playing Rock Band. I think I'll see if there's a way that I can fix the mic to that and retry. I think I'll also try it moving around on the couch a little. No wonder your calibrations were off!  |
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ratmice
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Post by ratmice on Feb 10, 2010 13:24:25 GMT -5
The really strange thing though is the sub volume. I have a 10" sub behind the couch/seating position and I have a 12" sub across the room on the right side. After running Emo-Q, it set the sub level to +10, yet when I try to manually calibrate the speakers using the UMC-1's test tones, the subs are about 10db down from the rest of the speakers. I can get all of the other speakers level matched, but even at +10 the subs are 10db too quiet, according to my Radio Shack SPL meter. Yet when I watch a movie, the subs sound a tad too "hot". I wonder if this has any relation to the LFE 10 dB boost issue. Mine were set really hot too. I wonder if the 10 dB boost is not being applied in the right way? www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=748147 |
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cawgijoe
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Post by cawgijoe on Feb 10, 2010 13:25:27 GMT -5
"RIght" is subjective at best, none of those other room correction systems come close to a good manual setup. Some just get the "ballpark" closer than others at best. OK, what I mean by right is speaker trim, x-over, distance - the basic, easy stuff. We get it YOU don't trust anything but your RTA and expensive mic. However, there really are thousands of people that do like what the auto calibration systems do in their setups. I happen t be one of them - MCACC does a great job with my room compared to no EQ. YMMV. I love having the mic type setup system. I have a Pioneer Elite VSX-01 receiver that uses MCACC and for the most part it gets my setup right. I do some tweaking after the fact, but I love the way it works. I do have a Radio Shack SPL meter that I used with my previous Denon receiver and to me the mic based system is a real convenience. That doesn't mean that the mic based systems work "perfectly", but my system sounds great using it. EmoQ is a big part of the UMC-1 and a selling point to most folks and simply needs to be working correctly. |
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ratmice
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Post by ratmice on Feb 10, 2010 13:26:07 GMT -5
mine was on a tripod on the couch - literally where my head would be in the "sweet spot". will have to experiment. Yes let us know if you get a different value as you move it around. Maybe you can help everyone with a recommended placement. I don't have a UMC yet otherwise I would jump in too. Mine, too was on a tripod in the normal seating position, at ear height. Couch is low-backed and nothing nearby to cause any reflections. Other setup mics have never had a problem using the same tripod/position. p.s. anyone else notice that the threading on the bottom of the mic didn't fit the mount threading on the tripod? |
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Post by jason1976 on Feb 10, 2010 13:27:05 GMT -5
Good one! Well at least we know measurements taken from the top of darien's head doesn't work! :-) Maybe someone that has gotten a good result can chime in on where they placed it?
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DYohn
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Post by DYohn on Feb 10, 2010 13:31:07 GMT -5
Good one! Well at least we know measurements taken from the top of darien's head doesn't work! :-) Maybe someone that has gotten a good result can chime in on where they placed it? I got decent results (although I did not like some of the settings and they are easily adjusted.) I placed the mic on a boom mic stand between the two main sitting positions at just above seated ear level. Make sure the mic is not up against a reflective boundary and that it is pointed "up" toward the ceiling. |
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Post by jimsfield on Feb 10, 2010 14:43:49 GMT -5
REW is quite good and we offer lots of support for it on the Shack. Don't hesitate to post your questions about using it and one of the authors is the person likely to answer you. BTW, I started a UMC-1 users thread on the Shack if any of you want to jump over there and post your experience. FYI please read the Home Theater Shack forum rules if you do decide to post there as the zero-tolerance policy toward language and arguing is strictly enforced.  I've used REW but found it fiddly if you now what I mean. Is there any chance the UMC-1 could be integrated into REW so REW could at least suggest settings? |
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Post by pmd918 on Feb 10, 2010 22:41:42 GMT -5
I've been reading many of the different UMC-1 threads today and this EMO-Q thing is really hard to get a handle on. For some people it seems to be working great and for others it is a total disaster.
With so many variables (rooms, speakers, etc.), it is probably going to be really difficult to figure this one out.
Very frustrating from my point of view. I have used REW and would be happy to use it again to take advantage of the manual EQ feature of the UMC-1. And manually setting distances and crossover points is straight forward. But that doesn't mean that we shouldn't expect EMO-Q to work.
Manually setting up the UMC-1 is analogous to using a road map to determine your route to get to a destination, EMO-Q is like using GPS. Reading a road map is easy, but GPS is pretty popular!
Most of the people on this forum are "road map" kind of people. But the fact is that most other people are "GPS" types.
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Post by zductive on Feb 11, 2010 0:30:20 GMT -5
The quest continues... Manual Calibration
I set up my Rat Shack Meter pointed 45 degrees toward the ceiling in about the same location that I have been trying to use emo-q. I assumed that the meter was pretty close over the 30Hz to 8kHz range.
Looking for confirmation on the following procedure...
I used Room Equalization Wizard to produce sine test tones at each of the specified frequencies. The signal was connected to extern 7.1 LCR inputs (one at a time). Extern 7.1 was set to direct mode.
At each frequency, I wrote down the measured level. After writing down all of the levels, I see narrow 10+dB dip at 125Hz. This null is highly dependent on the height of the microphone. I then put the data into xcel and subtracted 70 dB from each value. I then put the negative of these values into the emoq manual setup table. Sounds good but, I thought the UMC sounded better before the update.
From this data, it is easy to see that the LCR have 3dB points at about 250 Hz because of the dip at 125 Hz and that is why emo-Q set the LCR lower frequency to 250 Hz.
I also noticed that it seemed that the speaker level match was not the same as it was before I started this process and added the equalization. I had to adjust each of the levels by up to 2 dB after applying the equalization.
Is the above process what you are recommending that we do as a backstop to emo-q.
If so, it doesn't take all that long. It should be more accurate than emo-q (shouldn't it).
REW folks - I should go to HT... I will.
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tb123
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Post by tb123 on Feb 11, 2010 6:23:38 GMT -5
Just curious, how many of you folk did a factory reset on the UMC after the upgrade?
I know there was some issue with corruption on input names etc and it seems most people just renamed them and moved on, but if there is corruption elsewhere, who knows what might be screwed up and how it effects it.....??
Might pay to do a full reset and try again, cant hurt, can it?
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Post by Nemesis.ie on Feb 11, 2010 7:05:36 GMT -5
REW is quite good and we offer lots of support for it on the Shack. Don't hesitate to post your questions about using it and one of the authors is the person likely to answer you. BTW, I started a UMC-1 users thread on the Shack if any of you want to jump over there and post your experience. FYI please read the Home Theater Shack forum rules if you do decide to post there as the zero-tolerance policy toward language and arguing is strictly enforced. I've used REW but found it fiddly if you now what I mean. Is there any chance the UMC-1 could be integrated into REW so REW could at least suggest settings? +1 even a mic calibration file for the UMC-1 mic would be great. |
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Post by Nemesis.ie on Feb 11, 2010 7:09:57 GMT -5
Just curious, how many of you folk did a factory reset on the UMC after the upgrade? I know there was some issue with corruption on input names etc and it seems most people just renamed them and moved on, but if there is corruption elsewhere, who knows what might be screwed up and how it effects it.....?? Might pay to do a full reset and try again, cant hurt, can it? Agreed - from many years using computer BIOSes, when you upgrade you really do need to do a reset to the defaults as they sometimes move data around and "bad" data can still be left from the previous version. My guess is the screwed up names are registers that have been swapped in the new code, it's is likely there are other (hidden) areas where this may have happened too. If you have no done a full reset, please do and let us know if anything changes. |
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Post by jmilton on Feb 11, 2010 7:28:51 GMT -5
Just curious, how many of you folk did a factory reset on the UMC after the upgrade? I know there was some issue with corruption on input names etc and it seems most people just renamed them and moved on, but if there is corruption elsewhere, who knows what might be screwed up and how it effects it.....?? Might pay to do a full reset and try again, cant hurt, can it? ....you first! |
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