UMC-1 Stereo over digital problem

[ratmice]

OK, just found a new interesting issue with my UMC-1. When playing a 2-channel source over a digital input will get a rhythmic "glitch" every second from my right speaker. As I normally listen to CDs through a 2-channel preamp, I just noticed it.

It seems that 2 channel material piped to the UMC-1 over any digital input leads to the problem on my unit. I tried 2 different sources with the same results:

OPPO BDP-83 - CD over HDMI produced the problem, switching to analog cured it. Additionally, SACD over HDMI sounded fine for the multichannel mix, but switching to the stereo mix produced the issue. I didn't try the coax or optical as the ONIX had problems with those inputs.

OXIX XCD-88 - optical and coaxial digital connections both produced the problem, while bypassing the 2 channel preamp and going directly to the UMC-1 with analog sounded fine.

Now here's the really interesting thing the cable box (via HDMI) does not show any problem with 2.0 channel material.

Anyone ever hear of anything like this? It seems like it only happens with 2.0 material with a sample rate that is a multiple of 44.1 kHz. The CDs are obviously 44.1 kHz, SACD 2.0 material was 88.2 kHz. The cable box that did not have the problem was putting out 2.0 at 48 kHz. Seems really strange to me. Any ideas?

[stustan]

Feb 14, 2010 10:09:16 GMT -5 ratmice said:

OK, just found a new interesting issue with my UMC-1. When playing a 2-channel source over a digital input will get a rhythmic "glitch" every second from my right speaker. As I normally listen to CDs through a 2-channel preamp, I just noticed it.

It seems that 2 channel material piped to the UMC-1 over any digital input leads to the problem on my unit. I tried 2 different sources with the same results:

OPPO BDP-83 - CD over HDMI produced the problem, switching to analog cured it. Additionally, SACD over HDMI sounded fine for the multichannel mix, but switching to the stereo mix produced the issue. I didn't try the coax or optical as the ONIX had problems with those inputs.

OXIX XCD-88 - optical and coaxial digital connections both produced the problem, while bypassing the 2 channel preamp and going directly to the UMC-1 with analog sounded fine.

Now here's the really interesting thing the cable box (via HDMI) does not show any problem with 2.0 channel material.

Anyone ever hear of anything like this? It seems like it only happens with 2.0 material with a sample rate that is a multiple of 44.1 kHz. The CDs are obviously 44.1 kHz, SACD 2.0 material was 88.2 kHz. The cable box that did not have the problem was putting out 2.0 at 48 kHz. Seems really strange to me. Any ideas?

I am having the exact same problem playing CD's from PS3 via HDMI to UMC-1. Will research further this Monday.

[ratmice]

Thanks for the reply. Too bad it's not isolated to my unit, we'll have to see how it shakes out.

Is your isolated to the right channel as well?

[drew664]

Feb 14, 2010 11:36:12 GMT -5 stustan said:

I am having the exact same problem playing CD's from PS3 via HDMI to UMC-1. Will research further this Monday.

If you can, could you check to see if when you run Pandora Radio from your PS3 if it does the same thing?

Thanks.

[stustan]

Feb 14, 2010 11:56:43 GMT -5 ratmice said:

Thanks for the reply. Too bad it's not isolated to my unit, we'll have to see how it shakes out.

Is your isolated to the right channel as well?

Yes, right channel only. Exactly as you described. I have just discovered it is perfect in direct mode, try Direct Mode (lose of bass management is the big downside for me).

Playback in Stereo Mode is when I hear the rhythmic clicks and pops as well as subtle rhythmic breakup in the right channel only. Sounds like a digital clock timing anomaly.

I will test tomorrow and post back within this thread, I will compare sample rates in Direct and Stereo Modes when passing signal via HDMI using the PS3 as source.

Let's try to get to the bottom of this.

Best Regards

[stustan]

Feb 14, 2010 15:31:40 GMT -5 drew664 said:

Feb 14, 2010 11:36:12 GMT -5 stustan said:

I am having the exact same problem playing CD's from PS3 via HDMI to UMC-1. Will research further this Monday.

If you can, could you check to see if when you run Pandora Radio from your PS3 if it does the same thing?

Thanks.

Will check tonight

[stustan]

Feb 14, 2010 17:51:02 GMT -5 stustan said:

Feb 14, 2010 15:31:40 GMT -5 drew664 said:

If you can, could you check to see if when you run Pandora Radio from your PS3 if it does the same thing?

Thanks.

Will check tonight

I do not hear any problems when listening to Pandora via the PS3. It did not matter whether I listened to Pandora on Direct Mode or Stereo Mode. I am subscribed to Pandora One which gives me music @ 192kbps which makes background listening a little more tolerable.

So tomorrow I will try every combination of sample rate playback of CD's from PS3 to UMC via HDMI and report back.

[drew664]

Thanks for testing that out! Appreciate it!

[ratmice]

Feb 14, 2010 19:47:08 GMT -5 stustan said:

Feb 14, 2010 17:51:02 GMT -5 stustan said:

Will check tonight

I do not hear any problems when listening to Pandora via the PS3. It did not matter whether I listened to Pandora on Direct Mode or Stereo Mode. I am subscribed to Pandora One which gives me music @ 192kbps which makes background listening a little more tolerable.

So tomorrow I will try every combination of sample rate playback of CD's from PS3 to UMC via HDMI and report back.

That fits with my finding of the problem being isolated to multiples of 44.1 kHz - as 192kHz is a multiple of 48 kHz.

It does seem like a clocking artifact, interesting it's just on one channel, though.

[ratmice]

bump to get this back n the first page, so we can get some EMO eyes on it.

[stustan]

I went through all the possible CD permutations this morning. PS3 (original 20g fatboy, upgraded hard drive) connected via HDMI (Emotiva Branded) to UMC-1 (Upgraded Firmware).

Stereo (2 channel) Linear PCM to UMC-1 results:

44.1 Direct Mode = clicks/smear, Stereo Mode = clicks/smear.
48 Direct Mode = good plybck, Stereo Mode = good playback.
88.2 Direct Mode = good plybck, Stereo Mode = clicks/smear.
176.4 Direct Mode = good plybck, Stereo Mode = clicks/smear.

96 Could not get PS3 to upsample and output 96 sampling rate. Anyone have a hint for me?
192 Could not get PS3 to upsample and output 96 sampling rate. Anyone have a hint for me?

I hope this may help those who know more than I.

Just a few further thoughts concerning UMC-1. On the first try, the firmware update took between 15 and 20 minutes from start to finish. I used a desktop PC that I built.

I have suffered the same results as others who have complained about EmoQ in various posts and threads. In my particular room/playback system....after listening to the audible results and deciphering the EQ curves and speaker setups recommended by many EmoQ attempts, I have gone the manual, personal, human route and set levels using a SPL meter via the UMC test tones and the AVIA disk. I set up EQ by ear. I am happy with those results...what can I say?

Dolby Volume sounds like an old Seeburg Jukebox facing the corner with only the woofer working. Can anyone explain to me how to make it work....does it work?

With all that being said, the majority of my UMC use is film playback and I am very happy with my UMC's performance in that regard.

I just want the UMC to be as good as it can be.

[ratmice]

I was able to play 192 kHz without the issues, via my BDP-83 and one of the 2L releases. It also played Akira Blu-ray, which is 192 kHz, great.

I'll have to look around for some 96 kHz material to try.

[jmilton]

I have no trouble with 96 Khz

[DYohn]

Feb 15, 2010 11:24:20 GMT -5 ratmice said:

I was able to play 192 kHz without the issues, via my BDP-83 and one of the 2L releases. It also played Akira Blu-ray, which is 192 kHz, great.

I'll have to look around for some 96 kHz material to try.

What is the official info on what resolution the UMC-1 is able to decode? I tried to find it but was not able to...

[ratmice]

Feb 15, 2010 11:35:33 GMT -5 jmilton said:

I have no trouble with 96 Khz

Do you have the issues with 44.1 or 88.2?

Dyohn, I believe I read 192 kHz, but I can't find the info anymore.

[DYohn]

Feb 15, 2010 11:40:51 GMT -5 ratmice said:

Feb 15, 2010 11:35:33 GMT -5 jmilton said:

I have no trouble with 96 Khz

Do you have the issues with 44.1 or 88.2?

Dyohn, I believe I read 192 kHz, but I can't find the info anymore.

Interesting. I may have to try the UMC-1 DAC on a stereo digital source as I haven't done that yet.

[darien87]

Feb 15, 2010 11:24:20 GMT -5 ratmice said:

I was able to play 192 kHz without the issues, via my BDP-83 and one of the 2L releases. It also played Akira Blu-ray, which is 192 kHz, great.

I'll have to look around for some 96 kHz material to try.

That's interesting that you had no problems with Akira. I had dropout with it yesterday. Here's what I ran into last weekend.

1. I tried playing a CD with both my Playstation 3 and my Samsung BD-P1600 Blu-ray player. When the PS 3 is set to an output frequency of 48Khz everything is fine. If it is set to anything else, I lose the audio every time I pause, fast forward or rewind. You have to restart the track to get the music back. When I tried playing the same CD through the Samsung player I got the same issue, (no music every time you pause, fast forward or rewind). According to the UMC-1’s display the output frequency of the Samsung player is 44.1 Khz.

2. I’m still getting intermittent audio dropout when playing Dolby Digital from my AT & T U-verse DVR. I lose ALL channels of audio, not just the center channel like what would happen before the firmware update. Changing inputs on the UMC-1 seems to fix the problem. I don’t think I get the audio dropout when just playing stereo audio.

3. I got audio dropout when playing the Akira Blu-ray from my PS 3, (I didn't try it from the Samsung). I think this is a bit of a unique scenario as I noticed that the UMC-1 display showed it was receiving 192Khz audio. This seems to be the same problem as the one I got while playing music from the PS 3. To my knowledge, Akira is the only Blu-ray disc recorded with this high frequency audio.

[ratmice]

Feb 15, 2010 12:31:15 GMT -5 darien87 said:

Feb 15, 2010 11:24:20 GMT -5 ratmice said:

I was able to play 192 kHz without the issues, via my BDP-83 and one of the 2L releases. It also played Akira Blu-ray, which is 192 kHz, great.

I'll have to look around for some 96 kHz material to try.

That's interesting that you had no problems with Akira. I had dropout with it yesterday. Here's what I ran into last weekend.

1. I tried playing a CD with both my Playstation 3 and my Samsung BD-P1600 Blu-ray player. When the PS 3 is set to an output frequency of 48Khz everything is fine. If it is set to anything else, I lose the audio every time I pause, fast forward or rewind. You have to restart the track to get the music back. When I tried playing the same CD through the Samsung player I got the same issue, (no music every time you pause, fast forward or rewind). According to the UMC-1’s display the output frequency of the Samsung player is 44.1 Khz.

2. I’m still getting intermittent audio dropout when playing Dolby Digital from my AT & T U-verse DVR. I lose ALL channels of audio, not just the center channel like what would happen before the firmware update. Changing inputs on the UMC-1 seems to fix the problem. I don’t think I get the audio dropout when just playing stereo audio.

3. I got audio dropout when playing the Akira Blu-ray from my PS 3, (I didn't try it from the Samsung). I think this is a bit of a unique scenario as I noticed that the UMC-1 display showed it was receiving 192Khz audio. This seems to be the same problem as the one I got while playing music from the PS 3. To my knowledge, Akira is the only Blu-ray disc recorded with this high frequency audio.

I think we might be talking about 2 different issues here - however I have not had any dropouts that I noticed with Akira. Now I will try it again tonight. The UMC-1 should indicate that it is receiving 192 kHz from Akira as that is the resolution of the 5.1 Japanese track.

[ratmice]

Well, I just heard back from EMO tech support after sending in an e-mail about this issue. The unit(s) they have in house do not show this anomaly with AP generated sources or music sources on the 44.1 multiple resolutions. So far stustan seems to be the only other one experiencing this issue.

Could anyone so inclined please check the conditions reported above (CD over digital, set to stereo) to see if they experience the same problem?

Please report back to this thread, as I pointed the tech to it in the e-mail.

Thnaks

[snodog]

I didnt have any problems with it either.