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Post by Porscheguy on Feb 28, 2010 9:03:55 GMT -5
Alright, you have convinced me. I'm giving my XPA-2 to my 11 year old niece (it will be good enough for her I hope) and I'll get a couple of UPA-1's. It's pretty clear to me that the UPA-1 is so good my listening experience has been suffering with the XPA-2.
What?
I'll bet anyone one of you a cheap sandwich that in a double blind controlled listening test, that it will all but impossible to tell the difference. In fact, I'd bet the XPA-2 wins if anything.
I just returned a UPA-7 for an XPA-5. Can I hear the difference?
Nope.
Audio is such a perception.
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Jimna
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Post by Jimna on Feb 28, 2010 10:32:39 GMT -5
In real world listening, I'd have to confirm ntrain's assessment. The UPA-1 is a little "easier on the ears", and both soundstage and imaging are noticeably improved in my system. The amp seems quite powerful with excellent transient response, all of the muscial instruments, whether it be piano, sax, or violin just sound "right". Soft Jazz music is relaxing me to sleep almost every night now. With that said, this amp can rock the house also. I'm a big Fergie and Blackeyed Pea fan, and this amp can rock the house when playing their "The E.N.D." cd. I would go as far as to say that these amps are probably one of the best audio gear purchase I've ever made. this is the only real comp? and did you do this after breaking in the UPA's with the XPA side by side? i know it doesnt mean anything but i dont see an XPA-2 in your sig now so i wonder... in the end i just cant see anything but 1 thing in the stats that indicates anything better, and thats if we ignore the dynamics and headroom gained with the XPA-2 and the massive difference in power. im awaiting my chance at an XPA-2 and this thread gives me the second guess syndrome. i am running 4ohm speakers which makes this easy for me, but i still wonder. has anyone done a real side-by-side comp? opinions really mean nothing with out real proof to back it up, or at least a real session listening to both....otherwise lets start comparing multiple brands we have never heard based on specs. just searching for factual answers not speculation.
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Post by Porscheguy on Feb 28, 2010 11:12:32 GMT -5
In real world listening, I'd have to confirm ntrain's assessment. I'm curious briank, do you have a XPA-2? And as far as ntrain's assessment, he does not have an XPA-2 so I'm not sure what his "assessment" means....... We can all pontificate.....
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Post by teedub21 on Feb 28, 2010 11:33:27 GMT -5
Why does it seem every thread starts to disintegrate with a bunch of smart assed comments? I re-read the entire thread and didn't see one post suggesting anyone with an XPA2 get rid of it for the UPA1-s. I think what we have said is the UPA-1's are very good. They are also less expensive than an XPA2, so heck, just give them a try. Since you already have the xpa2, maybe you should get a pair of the UPA1's and see for your self?
The only "Emotiva Amp" comparison I was able to make was my system running on 2 channels of the XPA5 compared to the UPA1's. The UPA1's were noticeably better. Smoother, more natural, better channel separation and pinpointing of instruments and sounds in the soundstage. It wasn't like, "hmmmm.....I guess they sound ok." It was, "dang, this definitely sounds better".
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Post by Nemesis.ie on Feb 28, 2010 12:03:59 GMT -5
I Agree 100%.
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Post by Porscheguy on Feb 28, 2010 12:07:56 GMT -5
Why does it seem every thread starts to disintegrate with a bunch of smart assed comments? I re-read the entire thread and didn't see one post suggesting anyone with an XPA2 get rid of it for the UPA1-s. I think what we have said is the UPA-1's are very good. They are also less expensive than an XPA2, so heck, just give them a try. Since you already have the xpa2, maybe you should get a pair of the UPA1's and see for your self? The only "Emotiva Amp" comparison I was able to make was my system running on 2 channels of the XPA5 compared to the UPA1's. The UPA1's were noticeably better. Smoother, more natural, better channel separation and pinpointing of instruments and sounds in the soundstage. It wasn't like, "hmmmm.....I guess they sound ok." It was, "dang, this definitely sounds better". Obviously you are talking about me and you have no sense of humor. I'll ask you, Do you have an XPA-2 to compare the UPA-1's to?. My point is there are some in here making assessments and observations when they might not have a point of reference. They are pontificating. Many here and in other threads have virtually guaranteed that the the UPA-1's are better just 'cause they said so. No empirical data or facts. Many who have made these comments don't even own a XPA-2 and some have no Emo gear at all.
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twilkins
Emo VIPs
Sometimes it's to your advantage for people to think you're crazy -
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Post by twilkins on Feb 28, 2010 12:37:37 GMT -5
Comparing amps is usually a pointless exercise. Trying to compare amps from the same company will only result in lines being drawn between owners of the various amps. I don't think I can recall someone owning amp "A" and saying they think amp "B" sounds better. Dan L. actually set up the debate when he made his comments about the UPA-1. There are so many factors that decide how your system will sound (speakers ?) that looking for the "magic" amp will drive you crazy. I think determining your amp should depend on your power requirements, budget, and what fits best in your system.
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Post by broncsrule21 on Feb 28, 2010 13:04:27 GMT -5
IMO, there is not going to be a huge amount of people that will a/b these yet. I would bet most people with the XPA-2 are satisfied with its performance and won't feel the need to make a move to compare them. They probably would take the next step to the XPA-1 instead. Again this is my opinion. So, people are trying to weigh in with what they do know, and that is the UPA-1s are a great sounding amp at their price point for sure. There are some seriously defensive people in the XPA-2 camp for sure though. Most would agree that the XPA-2 is a beast of an amp. Don't take it personal that the UPA-1s could be as good for some people in certain situations. Again, it might be a while until we get numerous people that own both to make this direct comparrison.
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Post by ossif on Feb 28, 2010 13:45:50 GMT -5
IMO, there is not going to be a huge amount of people that will a/b these yet. I would bet most people with the XPA-2 are satisfied with its performance and won't feel the need to make a move to compare them. They probably would take the next step to the XPA-1 instead. Again this is my opinion. So, people are trying to weigh in with what they do know, and that is the UPA-1s are a great sounding amp at their price point for sure. There are some seriously defensive people in the XPA-2 camp for sure though. Most would agree that the XPA-2 is a beast of an amp. Don't take it personal that the UPA-1s could be as good for some people in certain situations. Again, it might be a while until we get numerous people that own both to make this direct comparrison. Unfortunately owner pride to often get in the way of an objective assessment. Neither the less the question whether to go with a XPA-2 or 2 x UPA-1 is much justified since the price target is close and the different technical philosophies might point out a winning concept. In the end the musical reproduction capabilities should be judge over one or the other. To answer this question I have on the way right now 3 UPA-1. Since I already own a XPA-2 and a XPA-5 the shootout will give a definitive answer which concept will please more to my ears, the XPA-2 powerful stereo amp concept or the UPA-1 mono amp concept. A theoretical debate cannot replace the active testing and listening.
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Post by Porscheguy on Feb 28, 2010 13:53:10 GMT -5
I'm sure the UPA-1 is a very good amp - like all Emo amps. My point was that anyone says that they can "clearly tell the difference" between a A UPA-1, XPA-2, XPA-5 has a level of awareness that I don't. I had a UPA-7 for a month and 2 channels were running my zone 2. It sounded great. But I still sent it back for a XPA-5 that is much more powerful. And you know what? I have hard time (no, I can't) hear any difference. As I said before, audio is such a perception. People hear what they want to hear. I know guys that that buy $200 power cables and swear their amps sound better..... Uh oh, a new can of worms
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Post by Porscheguy on Feb 28, 2010 14:12:37 GMT -5
IMO, there is not going to be a huge amount of people that will a/b these yet. I would bet most people with the XPA-2 are satisfied with its performance and won't feel the need to make a move to compare them. They probably would take the next step to the XPA-1 instead. Again this is my opinion. So, people are trying to weigh in with what they do know, and that is the UPA-1s are a great sounding amp at their price point for sure. There are some seriously defensive people in the XPA-2 camp for sure though. Most would agree that the XPA-2 is a beast of an amp. Don't take it personal that the UPA-1s could be as good for some people in certain situations. Again, it might be a while until we get numerous people that own both to make this direct comparrison. Unfortunately owner pride to often get in the way of an objective assessment. Neither the less the question whether to go with a XPA-2 or 2 x UPA-1 is much justified since the price target is close and the different technical philosophies might point out a winning concept. In the end the musical reproduction capabilities should be judge over one or the other. To answer this question I have on the way right now 3 UPA-1. Since I already own a XPA-2 and a XPA-5 the shootout will give a definitive answer which concept will please more to my ears, the XPA-2 powerful stereo amp concept or the UPA-1 mono amp concept. A theoretical debate cannot replace the active testing and listening. I welcome your testing and thoughts on same. As you said yourself, pride can overrule objectivity sometimes and when we buy something thats the latest greatest, we want it to be to be the best, so it many times is. As I said earlier, I returned an UPA-7 for an XPA-5 and I was expecting some sort of an epiphany but none happened. Maybe the XPA-5 can play a little louder but thats about it. We're not talking' about $300 Best Buy receivers here, all Emo gear is quite good. For me the single biggest factor (with all other things being equal) is power. The more the merrier. The tech specs on all Emo amps are superlative.....
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Post by broncsrule21 on Feb 28, 2010 14:26:31 GMT -5
IMO, there is not going to be a huge amount of people that will a/b these yet. I would bet most people with the XPA-2 are satisfied with its performance and won't feel the need to make a move to compare them. They probably would take the next step to the XPA-1 instead. Again this is my opinion. So, people are trying to weigh in with what they do know, and that is the UPA-1s are a great sounding amp at their price point for sure. There are some seriously defensive people in the XPA-2 camp for sure though. Most would agree that the XPA-2 is a beast of an amp. Don't take it personal that the UPA-1s could be as good for some people in certain situations. Again, it might be a while until we get numerous people that own both to make this direct comparrison. Unfortunately owner pride to often get in the way of an objective assessment. Neither the less the question whether to go with a XPA-2 or 2 x UPA-1 is much justified since the price target is close and the different technical philosophies might point out a winning concept. In the end the musical reproduction capabilities should be judge over one or the other. To answer this question I have on the way right now 3 UPA-1. Since I already own a XPA-2 and a XPA-5 the shootout will give a definitive answer which concept will please more to my ears, the XPA-2 powerful stereo amp concept or the UPA-1 mono amp concept. A theoretical debate cannot replace the active testing and listening. Cool, I will be looking forward to your thoughts between the two. Ultimately, with the size of my room, I thought the UPA-1s would be plenty of power. I have no regrets. On the other hand I now have the "UPA-5 or XPA-5" debate rolling around in my head. I have the need for 1 more amp for center, surrounds, and zone 2. My main concern is will there be a difference in center channel performance between the two? My mind say probably not noticeable. But What if??
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Post by teedub21 on Feb 28, 2010 15:44:21 GMT -5
Slippery slope there Porscheguy, almost suggesting "all amps sound the same". It simply isn't true. I've owned a lot of gear over the years, and almost embarrassing to admit, the Emo stuff is some of the least expensive. However, that doesn't mean it isn't good. Better than it should be, really, at the price.
Power cables "change" the sound? Not sure. I've tried some high dollar ones and just wasn't sure. Speaker cables and interconnects, yes they can have an affect on the sound. Source components, pre-amplification and amplification? Heck yeah they sound different. I don't have some "crazy pride" in my new UPA1's that I'm blind to other gear. I wasn't just wanting to hear a difference, I truly did. Similar amp module to whats in the xpa5, but still, a totally different component. Different transformers, layout, etc. It all has an affect on sound. If the UPA1's had sounded the same as the XPA5 I would have been happy, as the XPA5 was waiting for the arrival of my processor to run the theater room, I wasn't replacing 2 channels of it with the UPA1's. What was surprising was the UPA1's did sound much different than the XPA5, and better. It was obvious from the first note.
It will be interesting to hear others weigh in that can compare them to different Emo amps. I too look forward to "Ossif's" comparison to the XPA2 when his mono blocks come in.
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Post by shawmcbigdis on Feb 28, 2010 17:46:25 GMT -5
I'll throw my hat into this discussion. I own an XPA-3, and 2 UPA-1's. Before the UPA's arrived the XPA was driving my front 3 speakers. The UPA's took over front left and right duties when they arrived. I can hear very little difference between the 2. There seems to be a slight improvement in imaging and separation, but not much. My wife, who is not an audiophile at all, but has never really liked my B&W 804's since I got them, started listening,a nd said the system sounds better, a little more relaxing. I can only assume that is the difference in the THD on the high end. She seems to have a hard time with what I will call the clarity and detail of the 800 tweeters (she liked the Emo speakers more than the B&W's), and the UPA's seemed to hav cleaned up that range some and made them easier for her to listen to. For me, they sound nearly identical, and I would honestly chalk up everything I think I heard to placebo effect. My wife has no reason to react that way though, so I think there really is something to it. It's enough for me to want to pick up a third for the center channel, or maybe I'll just wait until I can afford an XPA-1 for the center, then we can have an almost direct comparison of the 2 monoblocks
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Jimna
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Post by Jimna on Feb 28, 2010 18:21:35 GMT -5
but ive read over and over that the XPA-2 sounds better than the XPA-3, and the thread was about the UPA-1 vs XPA-2, so this all is moot point. if anything by you(shawmcbigdis) saying your monos sound almost the same as the XPA-3 tells me the XPA-2 would have an edge as the masses agree it smokes the XPA-3.
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Post by briank on Feb 28, 2010 22:42:28 GMT -5
Sorry guys, had my kids this weekend and they always hi-jack my computer. I noticed there were some questions as to where my XPA-2 and UPA-1 comparisons were derived from, so I do want to clarify this. I do not own an XPA-2 but I've listened to it several times since last Emofest. I live about 15 minutes away for Emo HQ, so I've been able to spend some time listening to the XPA-2 in their lounge on more than one occassion. My observations in comparing the UPA-1 and XPA-2 were based on those listening experiences. I have not compared these two amps side by side and in the same room. But I felt that having listened to both, I would still offer my opinions as to their sound. My "plan" has been to wait and listen to the UPA-1 before purchasing an XPA-2 or possibly 2 XPA-1's. Long story short, the UPA-1's gave me exactly the "sound" I've been looking for, so that's what I purchased. Nothing against the XPA-2, as I've stated before, it's an awesome amp, in the end it just comes down to personal preference.
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Post by paintedklown on Feb 28, 2010 22:43:49 GMT -5
I just HAVE to throw this question in this thread. Not trying to hijack or anything but I didn't want to start a new thread just for this question. It seems to me, from looking at past (and current) Emotiva products that the comparison should be between the RPA-2 and a pair of UPA-1s. From my novice understanding (looking at the specs) these two amps should sound very similar. Do they? Has anyone did an A/B test with these two amps? Once again, I apologize if this is thread jacking but since we were on the topic of "UPA-1 vs." I became curious as to what you all thought.
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Post by broncsrule21 on Feb 28, 2010 23:44:36 GMT -5
I beleive user endofwolfman possibly has both. BTW, is it me or did the UPA-1 pre-order thread just vanish?
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Post by Porscheguy on Mar 1, 2010 8:04:03 GMT -5
Slippery slope there Porscheguy, almost suggesting "all amps sound the same". It simply isn't true. I've owned a lot of gear over the years, and almost embarrassing to admit, the Emo stuff is some of the least expensive. However, that doesn't mean it isn't good. Better than it should be, really, at the price. Power cables "change" the sound? Not sure. I've tried some high dollar ones and just wasn't sure. Speaker cables and interconnects, yes they can have an affect on the sound. Source components, pre-amplification and amplification? Heck yeah they sound different. I don't have some "crazy pride" in my new UPA1's that I'm blind to other gear. I wasn't just wanting to hear a difference, I truly did. Similar amp module to whats in the xpa5, but still, a totally different component. Different transformers, layout, etc. It all has an affect on sound. If the UPA1's had sounded the same as the XPA5 I would have been happy, as the XPA5 was waiting for the arrival of my processor to run the theater room, I wasn't replacing 2 channels of it with the UPA1's. What was surprising was the UPA1's did sound much different than the XPA5, and better. It was obvious from the first note. It will be interesting to hear others weigh in that can compare them to different Emo amps. I too look forward to "Ossif's" comparison to the XPA2 when his mono blocks come in. Well I think I said all Emo amps sound the same. They are built of the same components, build quality etc., with power being the X factor. I'm sure if you sit in the selfish seat, close your eyes and try hard enough, you will hear "something" different. Don't get me going on cables etc. Sure, decent quality is important, but past that, I'm not sure it matters. A $8000.00 pair of Tara Labs speaker interconnects won't make a difference compared to the Emo X series. IMHO. Power cables? Why not just go out and buy the same Romex cable thats in your wall? Letting the electricity flow the last 6' in some overpriced cable won't help after it's made most of it's journey in your wall with Romex. Just my opinion..
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Post by fishhead on Mar 1, 2010 9:12:15 GMT -5
Briank, Since you live so close, how about I send you some gas money and you head down to Emotiva HQ and do a blind test for us in their listening room? I'm sure the Emo staff would do the switching so you wouldn't know which you'd be listening to. I'd sure like to get a first hand comparison. I bought an XPA-2 for another two-channel set up just as the holiday sale was ending, but I haven't even opened it yet. I'd sure like to know which of these amps is better for two-channel music reproduction.
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