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Post by garym on Mar 2, 2013 12:39:54 GMT -5
Not sure if these have been mentioned before.
* When streaming a 5.1 movie (from a Sony BDP-S580 player) the UMC defaults to Stereo playback mode, even though the unit shows "MultiPCM" on the display. "All Stereo" is supposed to be the default mode for that input.
Moreover, you cannot change that mode with the remote buttons. To change it, you must enter the menu system, select PLIIx, then scroll up and select All Stereo. If you try to go directly from Stereo to All Stereo, without the change to PLIIx first, the unit will not make the change. All Stereo is "locked out."
* The Manual EQ menu does not present setting options for the back speakers, only the fronts, center, sides, and sub. It seems not to know they are present, even though they appear in the speaker setup menu and you can adjust their levels on the Test Tones page.
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Shinx
Minor Hero
Posts: 59
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Post by Shinx on Mar 15, 2013 18:59:56 GMT -5
Hi,
funny, no response....
I have the same problem using the PEQ and no Back are selectable and adjustable.
But I have a more strange problem too. Only on the 2 main channels the PEQ is effective. If I adjust the manual PEQ for Center or Surround, I see no impact on the measured frequenzy curve. I tried different surround modes and also switching from ManualEQ1 to EQ2 did not help. No effect of the PEQ adjustments to the signal.
Harry
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Post by SticknStones on Mar 15, 2013 19:10:22 GMT -5
Could you guys call Emo on this? They have a new FW coming out shortly and maybe this is already in the fix list but would be good to know. I just ordered this today?  |
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Post by garym on Mar 15, 2013 22:12:20 GMT -5
But I have a more strange problem too. Only on the 2 main channels the PEQ is effective. If I adjust the manual PEQ for Center or Surround, I see no impact on the measured frequenzy curve. I tried different surround modes and also switching from ManualEQ1 to EQ2 did not help. No effect of the PEQ adjustments to the signal. How are you feeding the test signal? Remember that if you use the 7.1 analog inputs, PEQ is bypassed. You will be in Direct mode. For testing the center and surrounds with a mono or stereo test sweep, you'll have to set the mode to All Stereo and mute (or disconnect) all channels but the one you're testing. |
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Shinx
Minor Hero
Posts: 59
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Post by Shinx on Mar 16, 2013 3:10:11 GMT -5
Hi,
I described yestday the issues to Emo team.
Do not use the 7.1 input. The RoomEQwizzard sweep signal comes from an external soundcard with RCA into the Analog 1 input. For the mains i used Stereo mode for adjusting, for the rest i used all stereo. But this does not work and backs were not selectable.
Is there any new firmware? I find it difficult here in the forum to find news about taht. Is there any separate thead only announcing and describing updates?
By the way, is it possible to mute each single channel? This would make adjusting of PEQ more comfortable, because i do not need to disconnet the speakers.
Thanks
Harry
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Post by garym on Mar 16, 2013 10:22:42 GMT -5
By the way, is it possible to mute each single channel? This would make adjusting of PEQ more comfortable, because i do not need to disconnet the speakers. Apparently not. I thought you could do it using the test tones, but they only allow you to reduce levels -10db. That would be a useful option. |
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Post by SticknStones on Mar 16, 2013 18:55:28 GMT -5
I spoke at length with a couple folks at Emotiva on Friday as I was pondering the UMC-200. They said the new firmware would be out in a few weeks somewhere between 2-4. I went ahead and sold my UMC-1 today and bought the UMC-200 on Friday. The UMC- works fine but I want to keep my value a little current. I did save my big discount for the XMC or RMC.
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Post by Gary Cook on Mar 17, 2013 20:11:34 GMT -5
Not sure if these have been mentioned before. * When streaming a 5.1 movie (from a Sony BDP-S580 player) the UMC defaults to Stereo playback mode, even though the unit shows "MultiPCM" on the display. "All Stereo" is supposed to be the default mode for that input. In my case, when playing a 5.1 Blu Ray movie (from a Panasonic BD65) the UMC-200 defaults to whatever format the Blu Ray is in, (eg; DTS, Dolby Digital, TrueHD PL11Z, 5.1 etc). Cheers Gary |
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Post by garym on Mar 17, 2013 20:20:37 GMT -5
In my case, when playing a 5.1 Blu Ray movie (from a Panasonic BD65) the UMC-200 defaults to whatever format the Blu Ray is in, (eg; DTS, Dolby Digital, TrueHD PL11Z, 5.1 etc). Cheers Gary That's how it should work. It works for me also for BD disks. When streaming 5.1 PCM from Amazon, however, it defaults to Stereo. It also defaults to PLIIx when streaming 2-channel audio from a music server, even though it's set (in the menu) to use Stereo for that input. |
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Post by srrndhound on Mar 21, 2013 21:56:16 GMT -5
I asked a friend if I could try out his UMC-200 for a day to see how it worked in my system. I did all the calibrations manually so I’d be sure to have the same basic crossovers, gains, EQ, and delays I usually use. Here’s what I found: 1) I first confirmed the channel gains with the internal noise. Then I did my EQ settings, and rechecked the gains. They read exactly the same. Turns out the internal noise is not passing through the EQ, so the only way to get the channels calibrated (manually) when EQ is used, is to play an external test disc. No problem, except while it’s playing you cannot trim the gains, as that menu activates the internal noise. I believe others have already commented on this. It was easy to work around it. Edit: The noise problem was externally caused. Sorry. Please ignore item 2.
2) Some “digi-buzz” was heard from the speakers. It was not a ground loop, as it was not mains hum, and also hitting Mute totally silenced it. The same is buzz heard from the headphone jack. It is much lower when the digital source is not detected, as then there’s some other muting happening, but as soon as some playback starts, even silent audio, the buzz starts, and if you pause the source, the buzz hangs on for a second before it mutes. 3) I like these new HDMI chips. No wild flashing when switching between sources. The screen just goes black, then the new source comes up. But I did have a handful of occasions over the day where the screen went blue while switching from one area on a Blu-ray to another, like from the trailers to the main menu. Switching to another source went to the other source, but back to the BD was still blue. A Stand-by recycle cleared it each time. This was with an Oppo 93, connected with AudioQuest Chocolate that works fine with the other gear. My error. Thank you Gary, for pointing out I should use All Stereo mode to hear the 5.1 source directly. It works. Please ignore item 4.
4) Even though I have a 7.1 setup, I was playing some 5.1 content and noticed that (except for Dolby D), there is no way to hear the basic 5.1 track with the EQ turned on. The surround modes do not offer a basic 5.1 mode other than Direct, and Direct bypasses the EQ. 5) When I played a DVD with DDEX content, I was not able to select PLIIz for a better 7.1 experience as I can with other units. If I changed the player from bitstream to PCM, of course then I could do so. 6) I noticed that when I switched from PLIIz Movie mode to Music mode, the overall volume dropped by 3 dB. Seems odd and unnecessary. BTW, is there a menu for the Music settings (center width, etc)? I did not find it. 7) I was playing a Phil Collins track, “That’s just the way it is” which starts off with a series of single percussion taps. I felt like I was hearing an echo from the surrounds in PLIIz Music. When I switched to Direct, it disappeared. I never hear any such echo from other units. I tried adding some extra distance to the rear speakers, and when I got another 19 feet on top of what was already there, the taps were in perfect sync. That means there's about 17 ms of delay in those rear speakers that should not be there, as it’s not part of the PLIIz process. 8) Switched over to try the headphone output. At first I wondered why it sounded so weird. Took me a while to realize that the headphone jack presents a stereo downmix of whatever surround mode is selected for the main outputs. So I switched to Direct mode and that was much cleaner, but it had no deep bass. So I ran a response sweep and found it rolling off <80 Hz (red curve), which happened to be where I set the main L/R speaker crossover. When I switched the L/R speakers to Large, the response became full range (violet). The Stereo mode was the same. All good. But when I checked to see if the Small setting also affected the Stereo mode, I got a rather wild response (green). Dunno what that’s about. Anyway, if you are using headphones, you have to remember to choose the Stereo or Direct mode, make sure the L/R speakers are set to large, then either turn off the EQ or choose an EQ setting you made for the headphones. You can't just "plug and play" the headphones without changing a lot of stuff – then remember to change it back when you use speakers again. I am certain none of these issues are isolated to this one unit. Kinda makes me wonder if anyone really tests this stuff. I found it all in one day without really trying. Attachments:
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Post by garym on Mar 21, 2013 23:12:03 GMT -5
1) I first confirmed the channel gains with the internal noise. Then I did my EQ settings, and rechecked the gains. They read exactly the same. Turns out the internal noise is not passing through the EQ, so the only way to get the channels calibrated (manually) when EQ is used, is to play an external test disc. Not sure that is a problem. The channel levels are set using a flat pink noise signal. Any EQ adjustments would be applied to those levels when playing a real source. I've never heard a buzz, or any extraneous noise, from my UMC-200. Did you try several sources and cables? The design (and default) mode for multi-channel PCM inputs is supposed to be All Stereo. EQ should be active in that mode. I never use that mode, so just tried it. No delay audible, but might not have used the best material to check for it (Steely Dan's *Two Against Nature*). That certainly needs to be fixed. Did you post these observations on the Feature and Issue Tracking page? It's here: emotivalounge.proboards.com/index.cgi?board=preamps&action=display&thread=29711The UMC-200 clearly has firmware issues. Maybe more extensive than revealed so far. Hope Emo takes their time with the fix, and doesn't rush out a partial solution. |
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Post by srrndhound on Mar 22, 2013 0:16:03 GMT -5
1) I first confirmed the channel gains with the internal noise. Then I did my EQ settings, and rechecked the gains. They read exactly the same. Turns out the internal noise is not passing through the EQ, so the only way to get the channels calibrated (manually) when EQ is used, is to play an external test disc. Not sure that is a problem. The channel levels are set using a flat pink noise signal. Any EQ adjustments would be applied to those levels when playing a real source. But that's the problem. If the real source levels are affected by the EQ, how can I tell how much unless the test noise is also affected? Let me double check that. There is a lot of stuff in the room. I"m not concerned about All Stereo, though. Not yet. |
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Post by cwt on Mar 22, 2013 0:35:37 GMT -5
3) I like these new HDMI chips. No wild flashing when switching between sources. The screen just goes black, then the new source comes up. But I did have a handful of occasions over the day where the screen went blue while switching from one area on a Blu-ray to another, like from the trailers to the main menu. Switching to another source went to the other source, but back to the BD was still blue. A Stand-by recycle cleared it each time. This was with an Oppo 93, connected with AudioQuest Chocolate that works fine with the other gear. 4) Even though I have a 7.1 setup, I was playing some 5.1 content and noticed that (except for Dolby D), there is no way to hear the basic 5.1 track with the EQ turned on. The surround modes do not offer a basic 5.1 mode other than Direct, and Direct bypasses the EQ. BTW, is there a menu for the Music settings (center width, etc)? I did not find it. No4 is a ''feature'' depending on your outlook ; the option of no dsp would please more than a few more than likely . emotivalounge.proboards.com/index.cgi?action=gotopost&board=preamps&thread=27686&post=472652Yes the pl2x music settings are non intuitive ;2nd page of the trim menu's just keep scrolling ;midnight mode is there too ... I get the blue screen handshaking with my 95 but Ive got a matrix switcher in circuit so on the rare occasion dont mind as long as it locks back on  |
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Post by garym on Mar 22, 2013 0:48:34 GMT -5
But that's the problem. If the real source levels are affected by the EQ, how can I tell how much unless the test noise is also affected? The net effect of EQ changes on the overall level would normally be minimal, unless most of your adjustments are in one direction. But you could check it with REW and a microphone (which is what I use to set levels. Much more precise than doing it by ear with the built-in noise generator). That is the "basic surround mode" you mentioned. In that mode a 2-channel source is routed to all the speakers, and a 5-channel source *should* be routed to the fronts, center, surrounds, and sub, with EQ. Unless you've connected the source via the 7.1 analog inputs. In that case you will only have Direct mode and no EQ. |
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Post by srrndhound on Mar 22, 2013 2:18:05 GMT -5
But that's the problem. If the real source levels are affected by the EQ, how can I tell how much unless the test noise is also affected? The net effect of EQ changes on the overall level would normally be minimal, unless most of your adjustments are in one direction. But you could check it with REW and a microphone (which is what I use to set levels. Much more precise than doing it by ear with the built-in noise generator). Yes, all my EQs are set negative. I'm not checking channel balance by ear. I checked it with a meter and a test disc, so it was not difficult to get it right. Just saying it would help if the internal test noise reflected the EQ -- that's how other processor do it. Anyway, it should be a simple problem to fix. Great, that works. I did not equate "All Stereo" with 5.1 direct playback, and didn't see that in the manual. Thanks for clearing that up. That's two problems gone that were never problems in the first place! The other being the buzz noise. Turns out that was coming from the HDMI connection from my laptop, which is not a regular part of the system, it was just for testing. Sorry for the false alarm. |
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Post by srrndhound on Mar 22, 2013 2:28:16 GMT -5
Yes the pl2x music settings are non intuitive ;2nd page of the trim menu's just keep scrolling ;midnight mode is there too ... Found it. Thanks! I wonder if this an Oppo thing. I have not seen it from the Sat box yet. |
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bootman
Emo VIPs 
Typing useless posts on internet forums....
Posts: 9,358
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Post by bootman on Mar 22, 2013 10:51:09 GMT -5
Kinda makes me wonder if anyone really tests this stuff. I found it all in one day without really trying. Several mods here had the unit before they went on sale. Maybe some of them can comment of what you found and if they did similar or any additional testing to verify your findings. |
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Post by ausman on Mar 22, 2013 14:12:03 GMT -5
With older codec supports you must confer whether it is a 5.1, 6.2 or 7.1 you are listening to and you might need to active it ... if the support format isn't on by default..
my understanding of plII is it was a format to a stereo signal to a multi channel signal, not sure how it fits above 5.1..
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Post by srrndhound on Mar 22, 2013 15:57:11 GMT -5
Several mods here had the unit before they went on sale. Maybe some of them can comment of what you found and if they did similar or any additional testing to verify your findings. Regardless of what may have been found before sale, if anyone can confirm the remaining symptoms I described, then I will add them to the official bug list. No use trying to fix a ghost. my understanding of plII is it was a format to a stereo signal to a multi channel signal, not sure how it fits above 5.1.. You are right that PLII just deals with 2-ch sources. But PLIIx and now PLIIz, can also take in 5.1 sources and create 4 surrounds (x) and heights (z). PLIIx Movie mode is the successor to DDEX, so it should be possible to use it even with EX flagged bitstreams. |
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Post by SticknStones on Mar 22, 2013 17:35:26 GMT -5
Srrndhound, Thanks for your commentary. Yes, I think it is the right approach to socialize feature/functions on forum threads to see if it is a technique issue or an actual problem. Once we know we have an actual problem posting in the Issue Tracker gives all of us that central repository. Good stuff you are doing.  I had a technique issue using the Last Video and finally got a couple of different techniques to consider. All fine now. |
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