klinemj
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Post by klinemj on May 16, 2010 18:08:47 GMT -5
I've been reading along on this whole bass MGMT thing since it start and trying to form an opinion. Based on all I am seeing I am a little confused and hoping someone could help me figure something out.
First, let me say - I fully agree w/those who are saying that if you really want the great 2-channel with sub and have bass MGMT, get a USP-1. It's phenomenal.
But...presuming I would want to use a UMC-1 for 2-channel I hope someone clear my confusion. Please read on if you would like to help this poor idiot.
If I understand how the UMC-1 works, when in 2-channel stereo mode, one can hook up a sub and (other than any x-over settings' impacts) the lower frequency music that goes to the front channels also goes to the sub. Right? (seriously, just checking...)
To continue...I have seen the various points back and forth about where in the circuit any EQ gets done to the sub and/or fronts, and from what I understand - when one looks at EMO-Q in 2-channel stereo mode, one finds they can's adjust the EQ on the sub. Right again? (Just checking to make sure I got that right...).
So, if I get the situation right up to this point, then the issue with this is that if one wants to adjust the EQ on the sub (frequency band by frequency band) then one cannot do that for the part of the signal via the LFE channel's setup in Emo-Q (which if I understand correctly makes sense because LFE channel is not even present on CD's anyway as that is part of DVD's intended for multichannel processing).
So, here's my main question...can't I just set the EQ for the frequencies on the sub using the front left/front right since in 2-channel stereo mode the sub is just being sent a portion of the signal that the fronts were given? (Given EMO-q have...what, 3?...possible storable EQ settings, couldn't I make one the one I wanted to use in stereo mode)
If I got all that right up to here, then I know that doing that would mean that both my fronts and my sub would be getting the EQ I set...unless there's a way that I can use the UMC-1 to set the x-over points in 2-channel mode for the fronts and sub. Which leads me to my last question...is there such a way to do that w/the UMC-1? (And if so, then I don't at all see the big deal people have been debating...).
Sorry if I am sounding stupid on this...just looking to learn.
Many thanks!
Mark (Note: I had originally posted this in another thread, but I am guessing that given that one's title, most won't read it. Hopefully, some will see it via this new thread and respond. All apologies to the mods if I did something wrong...)
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klinemj
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Post by klinemj on May 16, 2010 18:11:01 GMT -5
Below is the single response so far to my query on the other thread. I was just transferring it over here as I think Bill's added question is good & I hope others can shed light on our questions.
Hope others can help us...
Mark
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Post by archnmez on May 17, 2010 9:17:16 GMT -5
Hi guys,
I have brought up the same questions and concerns in a couple places and have not received an answer. There are a couple of members who I will not name who immediately (suspiciously) become defensive. All I want to know, like many others, is where the LP/HP filters and EQs fall in the bass management scheme.
I have emailed Lonnie directly and reserve my judgement until he answers(hopefully in a reasonable amount of time).
Does the mains EQ get applied prior to the LP/HP filtering, with the sub getting the EQed signal?
If so, that would mean the signals were A/D to D/A (to equalize for mains) then summed already anyway.
Maybe the LP/HP filters are the analog type, but I thought this was done digitally.
Anyone know the correct answer for sure? Markus would but he seems to have gotten the boot.
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Post by billmac on May 17, 2010 9:34:39 GMT -5
Anyone know the correct answer for sure? Markus would but he seems to have gotten the boot. I think only Emotiva would have the answers for the many bass management/EQ questions being asked. Markus seems to be a very intelligent guy but does he know how the UMC-1 was designed? So without that knowledge how would he know how the bass management/EQ features of the UMC-1 actually work? Bill |
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Post by archnmez on May 17, 2010 9:46:19 GMT -5
My UMC-1 is in for repairs. If someone would disconnect their mains while adjusting the low frequency EQ for the mains(below HP filter) and listen for a change in the bass output from the sub. That would certainly answer many of these questions!
Any willing testers?
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Post by Nemesis.ie on May 17, 2010 10:44:06 GMT -5
If I get time later in the week/weekend I might get the mic out again. I have easy access to the backs of my mains.
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Post by doc1963 on May 17, 2010 11:06:54 GMT -5
So, here's my main question...can't I just set the EQ for the frequencies on the sub using the front left/front right since in 2-channel stereo mode the sub is just being sent a portion of the signal that the fronts were given? (Given EMO-q have...what, 3?...possible storable EQ settings, couldn't I make one the one I wanted to use in stereo mode) I will look in to this too. All that I need to do is turn off the amp for the mains (XPA-2). Yes, you can set up individual EQs and assign them on a "per input" basis, that's no problem, but I do believe the crossover frequencies are universal. |
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emo4me
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Post by emo4me on May 17, 2010 12:10:32 GMT -5
I think most questions would be answered if detailed instruction on how to manually setup up bass/speaker management for the UMC was available.
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LCSeminole
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Post by LCSeminole on May 17, 2010 12:26:07 GMT -5
I think most questions would be answered if detailed instruction on how to manually setup up bass/speaker management for the UMC was available. Hopefully a finished manual will available in the future. |
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LCSeminole
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Post by LCSeminole on May 17, 2010 12:33:52 GMT -5
Hopefully, some will see it via this new thread and respond. All apologies to the mods if I did something wrong...) Mark, on the contrary, your questions/comments on bass management are quite insightful as well as though provoking and stated in a civil & professional way as to stay on point, while staying within the Lounge rules as you've always have.  |
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emo4me
Seeker Of Truth
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Post by emo4me on May 17, 2010 12:35:01 GMT -5
I think most questions would be answered if detailed instruction on how to manually setup up bass/speaker management for the UMC was available. Hopefully a finished manual will available in the future. With all of the drama that the bass management is causing I would hope sooner than when the finished manual is available. |
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LCSeminole
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Res firma mitescere nescit.
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Post by LCSeminole on May 17, 2010 12:43:09 GMT -5
Anyone know the correct answer for sure? Markus would but he seems to have gotten the boot. Markus will be welcome to offer up any insight or ask any questions as long as Lounge rules are followed once he is allowed back on the forum. A majority of the members seem to be able to post and converse in the Lounge in a respectful way and that is all is that is asked. I'd like to thank Mark (ie: klinemj) for starting up this thread again, and I'm sure at some point Lonnie will respond to the members questions & comments.  |
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Post by mach128x on May 17, 2010 14:04:36 GMT -5
I too vote for an official and detailed explanation of the way the complex piece of technology that the UMC-1 is, actually handles the eq and x-over signal path in 2 ch. vs HT.
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Post by doc1963 on May 17, 2010 17:22:50 GMT -5
So, here's my main question...can't I just set the EQ for the frequencies on the sub using the front left/front right since in 2-channel stereo mode the sub is just being sent a portion of the signal that the fronts were given? (Given EMO-q have...what, 3?...possible storable EQ settings, couldn't I make one the one I wanted to use in stereo mode) Okay, I can verify that all EQ bands below the crossover frequencies are active and do, in fact, route to the subwoofer in the "stereo" mode. "Direct" is 2.0 (as it should be) and all DSP modes behave identically to the stereo mode. So, they do work, but there are fewer bands to work with as opposed to the "LFE" (Sub) EQ. Hope this helps ........................ |
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klinemj
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Post by klinemj on May 17, 2010 20:05:34 GMT -5
cool - I thought that would be how it worked.
Thanks!
Mark
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Post by Brian on May 17, 2010 21:17:13 GMT -5
When is Lonnie going to give us more information on this question? He is currently posting in other threads.
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Post by Nemesis.ie on May 18, 2010 4:21:07 GMT -5
I would think that if the EQ below x-over bands on the main channels are active, then EMO-Q should be identifying the crossover first and then adjusting those in conjunction with the sub-EQ (or leaving them flat). An option for us to set the x-overs as a fixed value before auto-eq (as Yamaha has for example) and have Emo-Q work from there would be nice.
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Post by archnmez on May 18, 2010 9:32:37 GMT -5
Hi All,
1st - If the summed bass is equalized with the mains (apparently it is), then how can "keeping it analog" have anything to do with the issue. The equalizer is already done in the digital state?
2nd - Having equalized bass from the mains fed to the sub is probably what's causing bass issues with emoQ. At least, like nemesis states, have emoQ leave everything to the sub flat. I still don't understand how this is a hardware issue when it appears these things happen in the digital domain (LP/HP filtering, EQ). Unless after the LP is converted to analog it is summed to the .1 LFE. Which has nothing to do with analog purity because it was already digital. Just speculating
Any thoughts?
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klinemj
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Post by klinemj on May 18, 2010 16:30:31 GMT -5
See Lonnie's post in the "Marcus, EMO, and Locked Threads" thread...
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Post by johnnyg on May 18, 2010 16:53:18 GMT -5
See Lonnie's post in the "Marcus, EMO, and Locked Threads" thread... I just read it, and it confirms that the EQ and crossover are indeed backwards. Instead of summing the crossover signals and putting it through the sub EQ which would make room correction straightforward, now you have 7 coarse equalizers affecting bass material that bypasses the sub EQ making good room EQ all but impossible. Hmmm.... |
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