Which amp for a Denon 5308?

[henry]

Hi,

I need your advice.

I own a Denon 5308, which should have good internal amps, but I think about an upgrade with Emotiva gear. Speakers are seven Teufel Theater 8 THX Ultra 2 (4 ohms, minimum impedance is 2,6 ohms at 6.6 kHz, sensitivity see picture) www.teufel.eu/THX/Theater-8-THX-Ultra-2.cfm which should be quite easy to drive. If the Emos sound convincing, the Denon will be replaced by the Emos and a pre (e.g. Onkyo 5507).

They will be used for movies only, no stereo. Mostly I cannot hear very loud, my Denon usually shows about -20dB on its display.

Of course, Im am looking for a substantial increase in listening quality.

I like the monoblock design (XPA-1, UPA-1), on the other hand I have read that the XPA-2 may be the better choice for movies than the XPA-1, because it is more dynamic with a better bass.
With the XPA-1 I have the problem that I cannot afford 7 XPA-1, so I would have to mix the XPA-1 with another amp(s). And I have read that the XPA-1 sounds quite different than the XPA-2 or the XPA-5, so this combination might not sound as harmonic as 7 UPA-1.

Which amps would be best for me? I thought about the following alternatives:

1. 7 UPA-1
2. 3 XPA-1 and 1 XPA-5
3. 3 XPA-1 and 4 UPA-1
4. 4 XPA-2

Which combination for a substantial increase in listening quality would you choose?

A listening test at home would be the best idea, but shipping to Europe and taxes are extremely expensive.

Thanks for your help.

[jlafrenz]

XPA-1's are going to be the best. Next in line would be the XPA-2. I would go with a combo of either of those with your speakers that dip into the 2 ohm range.

[BillBauman]

3. 3 XPA-1 and 4 UPA-1

I love monoblocks for cleanliness and fidelity of sound.

[NorthStar]

Hi Henry,

Do like I'm doing (my speakers are as much demanding than yours), and #1. Get the XPA-2 in combination with the XPA-5, and the Onkyo Pro PR-SC886P* as the pre/pro.
Another good alternative for the amps would be #2. One XPA-1 (Center channel) and three XPA-2s.

* The PR-SC886P is Audyssey MultEQ PRO Installer-Ready, same as your Denon AVR-5308CI A/V Receiver.
But the Onkyo PR-SC5507P is NOT.

And by the way, you won't gain anything in sound quality, but you will in easier drive capability, which in itself kind of relate directly with quality of dynamics, and without compression or constipation.

--> And a very warm Welcome to the Lounge.

Bob

P.S. If your room's dimension is not larger that 35 sq meters, go with #1.
And if it approaches 50 sq meters, #2.
* This taking into account a normal ceiling's height of less than three meters (approx. 2.5 meters).

[henry]

Hi,

thanks for your replies and especially to Bob for your welcome.

Bob, my room ist only 28sq meters, so you would recommend XPA-2 and XPA-5?

billbauman: Do the XPA-1 and the UPA-1 sound harmonically? The power of the UPA-1 should be no problem for the surrounds. ;D

jlafrenz: Did you make a test XPA-1 against your XPA-5?

Anyone here who has made a test against a Denon 5308?

[NorthStar]

Yup, just like I told you so Henry. ...And you know what, I'm not even sure that you need to add external amps to your very capable Denon AVR-5308CI. Furthermore, according to what you previously said in your first post, I would personally not even bother with it.
Save the money instead to buy another subwoofer or two.
YES, your 5308 is three subwoofers capable, so DO IT, that is the VERY BEST you could do in your situation to truly improve things on the audio equation side.

One last question Henry; is your room open to other adjacent room(s)? If yes, even better reason to do so. ...If not, buy Classical opera tickets.

Cheers,
Bob

[Mike Ronesia]

What is your budget? The Denon is a very good AVR but amp's will give you the power to go with that feature set. I would say XPA2 and XPA-5 at minimum and the mono's if within your budget. I don't think you'd be sorry.

[henry]

Lordoftherings, yes, that's what I wanted to know. Maybe the 5308 is good enough that external amps won't really help. And you are right about the subwoofers. Right now I have four 15 inch subwoofers at home. ;D

Mike Ronesia: Three XPA-1 and a XPA-5 would fit into my budget. I just don't know whether I will hear a significant improvement.

[honk]

Hi,

the XPA-1 is simply overkill for the Teufels (it's still a satellite-system), the XPA-2 (UPA-1) + XPA-5 (UPA-x) are the better match.

[NorthStar]

Me think Henry is simply testing us.

[Mike Ronesia]

OK, just go with all UPA-1's. It would look and sound sweet.

[henry]

Mar 29, 2010 4:43:27 GMT -5 NorthStar said:

Me think Henry is simply testing us.

Frankly, I don't know what you mean.

Most probably I will test two UPA-1. Shipping is not that expensive and the power should be absolutely sufficient.

Any other opinions?

[Mike Ronesia]

Sounds like a good idea to me.

[Topend]

I purchased the XPA-2 and XPA-5 for my Yamaha RX-V3800. I am very happy with the improvements in sound. Highly recommended.

[NorthStar]

Mar 29, 2010 14:53:33 GMT -5 henry said:

Mar 29, 2010 4:43:27 GMT -5 NorthStar said:

Me think Henry is simply testing us.

Frankly, I don't know what you mean.

Most probably I will test two UPA-1. Shipping is not that expensive and the power should be absolutely sufficient.

Any other opinions?

Don't fret over this Henry, it was only a double sword tease with the appropriate emoticon ( ). ...Just a pure & simple wild guess without any further mean to it.

We are mainly here to exchange ideas, experience, knowledge, propose new suggestions, try different avenues, contemplate other options available to us, and having great time...
And that pretty much sums up where I'm coming from and going.

And I'll stand by my latest suggestion to you, that I already shared with you on a previous post (because you already have four 15" subwoofers in your relatively small room's size), buy Classical Opera tickets or your favorite Music Concert's types & preferences (me, I simply like Classical Opera & Orchestral Hall musical fireworks). ...And Blues & Jazz too.

Regards & Cheers,
Bob

[NorthStar]

Mar 29, 2010 15:49:57 GMT -5 Topend said:

I purchased the XPA-2 and XPA-5 for my Yamaha RX-V3800. I am very happy with the improvements in sound. Highly recommended.

I have no doubt whatsoever about this, and that is quite the exact same way (except for the receiver part) that I'm going right now. Bravo!

* By the way, the Yammy 3800 is a very fine receiver except for his video processor (Anchor Bay Technologies ABT-1010), which below-black and above-white information are being clipped from the video signal, with it in the pathway.
And for a digital input that is ostensibly passed through without any video processing, this is quite alarming as the HDMI transmitter chip does indeed affect the video dynamic range of the image.

Simply just stating a fact.

Cheers,
Bob

[Topend]

Mar 29, 2010 15:49:57 GMT -5 Topend said:

* By the way, the Yammy 3800 is a very fine receiver except for his video processor (Anchor Bay Technologies ABT-1010), which below-black and above-white information are being clipped from the video signal, with it in the pathway.
And for a digital input that is ostensibly passed through without any video processing, this is quite alarming as the HDMI transmitter chip does indeed affect the video dynamic range of the image.

Simply just stating a fact.

Cheers,
Bob

Thanks for the info. I was under the impression that as I use pass thru on my Yamaha the signal would be be unaffected. My plans for a new receiver now get more priority.

Cheers,
Dave.

[NorthStar]

Mar 30, 2010 16:32:33 GMT -5 Topend said:

Mar 29, 2010 15:49:57 GMT -5 Topend said:

* By the way, the Yammy 3800 is a very fine receiver except for his video processor (Anchor Bay Technologies ABT-1010), which below-black and above-white information are being clipped from the video signal, with it in the pathway.
And for a digital input that is ostensibly passed through without any video processing, this is quite alarming as the HDMI transmitter chip does indeed affect the video dynamic range of the image.

Simply just stating a fact.

Cheers,
Bob

Thanks for the info. I was under the impression that as I use pass thru on my Yamaha the signal would be be unaffected. My plans for a new receiver now get more priority.

Cheers,
Dave.

Just stating the facts Dave, just the facts.

Cheers,
Bob

P.S. The Yamaha RX-V3900 has the excellent ABT-2010 video processor and it is also an EXCELLENT SOUNDING receiver.
In a complete test with some other receivers (Onkyo NR906, Pioneer Elite SC-07 & Sony DA5400ES), the Yammy 3900 won the overall first place on EVERYTHING Audio/Video related, but more on the Audio quality side (for Spaciousness, Details, Clarity, Punch, Bass extension and tightness, ...). Also the 3900 has an excellent Auto Room EQ that is fully adjustable, YPAO. Plus it has the best DSPs of them all, an easy win there. ...But you knew most of these already anyway (because of your almost identical 3800, except for the video processor chip).
If I was you I would consider it (even over the RX-Z7).
I am convince that you can get a very fair price for your 3800, and use the cash to get an excellent deal on the 3900, which has a much improved video section with that better VP chip.

*** Use your Translation feature from your Google toolbar for translating German to English:

Check this out => www.areadvd.de/hardware/2009/av_receiver_mastertest_1.shtml

That should help.

And Dave, don't feel so bad about this, your 3800 is still a great sounding receiver with a great audio preamp section (and power amp too), and for the vast majority of people, that video handicap is all but hardly noticeable (only expert's discriminatory eyes can tell). ...Still though, the 3900 is better.

[BillBauman]

Mar 28, 2010 4:56:33 GMT -5 henry said:

billbauman: Do the XPA-1 and the UPA-1 sound harmonically? The power of the UPA-1 should be no problem for the surrounds. ;D

Henry, I don't own either, which is why I qualified my statement with just my overall love of monoblocks. I will end up owning some UPA-1's some day (hopefully soon). As far as matching, I think that all amps have a slightly different signature. From what I gather, reading the forums, the XPA's will have more power, the UPA's will be a little smoother. If you really want that extra inch of raw power, go with the XPA-1's, if you want smooth, musical sound all around, you could use all UPA-1's.

Having not critically auditioned any of them, I would personally use all UPA-1's. Hopefully I get a chance to listen to all of them some time. I might just fly to Emo HQ some time to do exactly that. I do believe, though, that any mix of Emo amps will sound fine together, only listening to them with your own gear can really determine which mix is best for you.

On a side note, I think your 5308 is perfectly suited as it is to run the system. I don't believe you'll get much of anything out of any stereo/multi-channel amps in comparison to the 5308. I do think you'll get a cleaner, more open, detailed sound by going to monoblocks because of the significant channel separation.

[ntrain42]

I would do 7 UPA-1's without question. A 2.6 ohm dip is NOT going to be an issue for ANY Emotiva amp. 7 dedicated monoblocks with give you perfect channel seperation(with 0 crosstalk) and very clear dynamics. Dont waste your time doing mix n' match combo's if you can afford and house 7 UPA-1's. Your talking about 350 clean watts of power per channel with those.

Remember the UPA-1 is basically a single channel XPA-3/5 with its own dedicated power supply.