So... Where's the beef?

[Porscheguy]

I've been kind of waiting around for a lot of guys to report their impressions and or tests/reviews of these Ultra subs - especially the 12.

I don't see a lot information from too many guys anywhere here in the forum - a couple of reviews.... thats it.

Are people actually buying them? Emo has slashed the price 40% on the 12 and 35% on the 10. Kind of makes me wonder whats going on.

I've put off my sub purchase to see what most would say who have bought one (or two). Buying two for $700.00 is a great deal they are great performers. If not, I'll go in another direction.

So speak up Ultra owners!! Is this a great subwoofer or not?

[jlafrenz]

Might be some useful information here for you.

forum.blu-ray.com/subwoofers/145515-emotiva-subwoofer-thread.html

[Porscheguy]

Thanks for the link. But still not much written about these subs.......

Hmmmmm......

[strindl]

Are you looking at replacing your Velodyne F1500r, or is this being used in another system?

[scyan]

I just bought 2 and will be installing them.

But quite frankly, unless you pull the plug or you can try them somewhere.. how can you judge them from an online review ?

Buying speakers based on reviews is a bad idea.

Even if 99% of the people that reviewed them hated them, you might end up finding out that they are the best speakers YOU have ever heard.

Speakers are really subjective and so are subs.

Once calibrated properly, they should give you a good run. And really, the special right now lets you try them for such a small investment that I don't see the point in these threads anymore.

[stuofsci02]

I have had two of these for the last month.. I run them with my B&W 804s speakers.. I was planning on only using them for Home Theater since I normally prefer music sans subwoofer.

Well, they have been awesome for movies, and suprising they have been pretty darn good for musics too. I run them on a low volume for music.

For the price I am not sure you could do any better. I recommend buying them in pairs... And they make great stocking stuffers...

[Porscheguy]

Jul 9, 2010 20:27:52 GMT -5 strindl said:

Are you looking at replacing your Velodyne F1500r, or is this being used in another system?

Hi Scott,

Not sure what I will do with my Velo. Its a great sub, but it wasn't really designed for home theater. It's great for music but not much power for HT - maybe 150-175 real watts (thats according to an engineer at Velodyne).

I have a very big room 7000 cu. ft. and I just don't get the spl I'd like. The guys at Velo agree and are the first to point out that the 1500R was never really designed with HT in mind.

I've thought about picking up a second one and have been looking on Audiogon but I haven't found one yet.....

The Emo's sound like a great deal, but they only play down to 22hz and as you know the 1500R goes to 18hz or even a tad lower - it just won't play loud.....

So I'm not sure what I'm gonna do.

[Porscheguy]

Jul 10, 2010 7:15:59 GMT -5 scyan said:

I just bought 2 and will be installing them.

But quite frankly, unless you pull the plug or you can try them somewhere.. how can you judge them from an online review ?

Buying speakers based on reviews is a bad idea.

Even if 99% of the people that reviewed them hated them, you might end up finding out that they are the best speakers YOU have ever heard.

Speakers are really subjective and so are subs.

Once calibrated properly, they should give you a good run. And really, the special right now lets you try them for such a small investment that I don't see the point in these threads anymore.

If 99% of the people who bought them hated them I would value their opinions and probably stay away.

I'm curious about your thoughts for yours - there have been precious few reviews.

And if you don't see the point in these threads, why are you here?

[Porscheguy]

Jul 10, 2010 8:22:45 GMT -5 stuofsci02 said:

For the price I am not sure you could do any better. I recommend buying them in pairs... And they make great stocking stuffers...

[Indycolts]

picked up 2 of the Ultra 12's one for me and one for a good friend of mine who is letting me put together his dedicated man cave in his basement which is a couple of months from being complete. I just got a chance to listen to the Emo 12 sub last night and this morning, I am pairing it with a Klipsch 12" sub. I replaced a cheaper Atlantic Technology sub that I had for about 12 years, I could tell the difference the moment I hooked the Ultra 12 up and it was before I dialed everything in.

I am lucky to have no neighbors because adding this sub is quite an improvement. This thing is sick!!!! Very happy customer.

[vitocorleone]

What kind of "review" are you looking for?

I upgraded from a 10" Paradigm HTiB sub (cinema 90) to the Ultra 10 after the old sub stopped working reliably. There's no comparison, really. The old ported sub - if you could call it that - started to roll of steeply in my room at about 38Hz, being at 35Hz at -3db. The Ultra 10 starts rolling off at 24Hz in the room, with -3db being at around 22Hz.

I could be measuring wrong with REW + RadioShack SPL meter, or it could just be my room, or both, as I've read others having the same sub rolling off around 35Hz. But as I measured both the same way, you can at least get a relative idea of the difference.

After getting the Ultra 10 calibrated with the Denon AVR-1910, I feel my relatively low-end system is complete enough for me. The Ultra blends better up high and delivers a much more convincing, realistic low-end at the volume levels I listen to (< 75 db). I have a family and a small house so have not yet had a chance to really "push" the sub... but I have the feeling it's more than a match for my Paradigm Cinema 90's fronts, 220 center and ADP surrounds.

I love it. Put it together with the awesome customer service (I ordered before the latest sale and Emotiva kindly refunded the difference) and I'm sold on the Emotiva brand.

[Porscheguy]

Jul 10, 2010 11:51:50 GMT -5 vitocorleone said:

What kind of "review" are you looking for?

I upgraded from a 10" Paradigm HTiB sub (cinema 90) to the Ultra 10 after the old sub stopped working reliably. There's no comparison, really. The old ported sub - if you could call it that - started to roll of steeply in my room at about 38Hz, being at 35Hz at -3db. The Ultra 10 starts rolling off at 24Hz in the room, with -3db being at around 22Hz.

I could be measuring wrong with REW + RadioShack SPL meter, or it could just be my room, or both, as I've read others having the same sub rolling off around 35Hz. But as I measured both the same way, you can at least get a relative idea of the difference.

After getting the Ultra 10 calibrated with the Denon AVR-1910, I feel my relatively low-end system is complete enough for me. The Ultra blends better up high and delivers a much more convincing, realistic low-end at the volume levels I listen to (< 75 db). I have a family and a small house so have not yet had a chance to really "push" the sub... but I have the feeling it's more than a match for my Paradigm Cinema 90's fronts, 220 center and ADP surrounds.

I love it. Put it together with the awesome customer service (I ordered before the latest sale and Emotiva kindly refunded the difference) and I'm sold on the Emotiva brand.

This is the kind of info I'm looking for - now does anyone have a 7000 cu ft room that owns a couple of these?

[Porscheguy]

[krellion]

I just got two Ultra 12's in place. The room is only about 1500 square feet, 14x14x8, or so. Here's the set up I have a Krell 500i, 250x2, driving a pair of Klipsch Heresy, 98dB sensitive, I put one U12 on each preamp output of the Krell. Here's what happened...

Rewind; The U12 is very well built, the grill is heavier than I've ever seen on a sub, the cabinet is sturdy, the unit is double boxed and nicely, safely, packed within. At first I thought the power cord wasn't in there but embedded in the bottom piece of packing facing down and out of sight was another box with the manual, cord and choice of rubber feet or spikes. I used the rubber feet which were nice, a threaded stem screwed into the bottom of the cabinet and the rubber feet are cone shape with the point facing down. To get a die cast driver in this price range is unheard of, my old Velodyne SPL 12 was even a stamped driver and it cost over $1200.00. The inputs are summed so you can use either a single or double RCA run depending on what you are connecting it to.

The U12 has plenty of output, 250x2 of Krell power into a speaker 98dB efficient can be lethal but the U12's kept up with the mains at about 12 o'clock on the volume dial. I turned the dial to max and the U12 still had plenty of gain after the 12 o'clock position. I didn't measure frequency response but using a test sweep disc the sub played extremely deep. I used the U12's crossover and set it about 60Hz. I found the U12 much more musical than I remember my SPL-1200 being. In my opinion you can't buy a better sub at this price, it wipes up mass market brands I've experienced. The U12 was accurate, only playing when program was in it's frequency range. The U12 exhibited a lack of distortion comparable to only what I've heard in very high quality subs.

Listening, the room was relatively small, especially for two U12's, it's no exaggeration that the SPL easily reached Rock concert level. When playing CD's with bass content I could feel the bass pounding my body just like at a live show. The bass was tight and clean though as mentioned no distortion, so it was a lot of fun. And this is with the subs as flat as I could get them with my mains. I can't stand when people turn the sub up so loud it covers the other frequencies.

If you are looking for a quality sub the U12 fits the bill. If you can afford the best sub on the market there is better. For instance, to be honest I don't think the U12 is quite as good as my SVS PC13 Ultra but it comes very close for 1/4 the price. And, I only bring this up so readers will know I'm not just hyping Emo because I bought it. You wouldn't need two U12's to replace one woofer but at the price.... well two is twice as good right? Buyers would find the U12 a good value if they paid the MSRP of $599.00 so what they are actually selling for is a crazy good deal. You can easily spend that in the big box stores and walk out with a sub that can't touch the performance of the U12.

Just a side note the Emo T-shirt looks great. Strange, no one asked my size but the one in the box fit like it was made for me, just lucky I guess

[Porscheguy]

Jul 10, 2010 14:28:02 GMT -5 krellion said:

I just got two Ultra 12's in place. The room is only about 1500 square feet, 14x14x8, or so. Here's the set up I have a Krell 500i, 250x2, driving a pair of Klipsch Heresy, 98dB sensitive, I put one U12 on each preamp output of the Krell. Here's what happened...

Rewind; The U12 is very well built, the grill is heavier than I've ever seen on a sub, the cabinet is sturdy, the unit is double boxed and nicely, safely, packed within. At first I thought the power cord wasn't in there but embedded in the bottom piece of packing facing down and out of sight was another box with the manual, cord and choice of rubber feet or spikes. I used the rubber feet which were nice, a threaded stem screwed into the bottom of the cabinet and the rubber feet are cone shape with the point facing down. To get a die cast driver in this price range is unheard of, my old Velodyne SPL 12 was even a stamped driver and it cost over $1200.00. The inputs are summed so you can use either a single or double RCA run depending on what you are connecting it to.

The U12 has plenty of output, 250x2 of Krell power into a speaker 98dB efficient can be lethal but the U12's kept up with the mains at about 12 o'clock on the volume dial. I turned the dial to max and the U12 still had plenty of gain after the 12 o'clock position. I didn't measure frequency response but using a test sweep disc the sub played extremely deep. I used the U12's crossover and set it about 60Hz. I found the U12 much more musical than I remember my SPL-1200 being. In my opinion you can't buy a better sub at this price, it wipes up mass market brands I've experienced. The U12 was accurate, only playing when program was in it's frequency range. The U12 exhibited a lack of distortion comparable to only what I've heard in very high quality subs.

Listening, the room was relatively small, especially for two U12's, it's no exaggeration that the SPL easily reached Rock concert level. When playing CD's with bass content I could feel the bass pounding my body just like at a live show. The bass was tight and clean though as mentioned no distortion, so it was a lot of fun. And this is with the subs as flat as I could get them with my mains. I can't stand when people turn the sub up so loud it covers the other frequencies.

If you are looking for a quality sub the U12 fits the bill. If you can afford the best sub on the market there is better. For instance, to be honest I don't think the U12 is quite as good as my SVS PC13 Ultra but it comes very close for 1/4 the price. And, I only bring this up so readers will know I'm not just hyping Emo because I bought it. You wouldn't need two U12's to replace one woofer but at the price.... well two is twice as good right? Buyers would find the U12 a good value if they paid the MSRP of $599.00 so what they are actually selling for is a crazy good deal. You can easily spend that in the big box stores and walk out with a sub that can't touch the performance of the U12.

Just a side note the Emo T-shirt looks great. Strange, no one asked my size but the one in the box fit like it was made for me, just lucky I guess

Thanks so much for your review. As you can see by my stuff I have a lot of Emo gear and I have never questioned the quality or bang for the buck - I know they will be great performers. My only concern is my room which is 21 X 42. I want to be able to have that slam as well and I'm not sure that those guys will do it. Or will they? Everyone seems to be happy.

I've been considering 1 (or 2) SVS PB12 Plus. Just one alone shipped to my house is about $1250.00 but I'm thinking its a killer sub even at that price. I thought about the PB 13 Ultra, but thats gettin' a bit pricey not to mention these SVS subs are monsters at 127 lbs and 140 lbs respectively. Must be a pain moving them around.....

Thanks again!!

[krellion]

The U12 would do it if you had enough of them, maybe one in each corner. You have an enormous room. You'll have to push some serious air to feel it in there. It's hard for me to believe your 15 has much of an effect in there. Where do you live, that shipping is crazy. Is the entire room the home theater or is it sectioned? Snell are nice speakers but your room is large enough for Klipschorns Those would rock.

If it was my room I'd look into maybe the higher end Velodyne 18 or go with Pro passive subs and a monster amp like maybe the XPA-1. To get real bass you can feel it will cost. I have heard of people doing infinite baffle subs in a wall that are said to really perform, this might be something to look into as well. I saw an article where a guy had a barn where he worked on classic cars, he wanted a system out there that sounded like a concert, the installers used JBL Pro speakers and the Velodyne high end 18's, that's what made me think of those. I personally like Electro Voice as my choice for Pro speakers though.

The U12's are very good but it will take 4 to 6 to do a room that size. If any one says they have a sub that will do a room that size they are not being honest. The only single sub I can even think of that might do it would be a Krell sub but at $25k I think I'd buy a half dozen U12's and save some money. It's a shame something couldn't be worked out on shipping.

[alanetta]

Hey Porscheguy,
I'm new here so I probably don't carry much credibility, but I just replaced my old Velodyne F1500 with one U12. My room is 3500 cu ft. I was also looking at the SVS PB12+ but they are changing it now and no telling if it will ever be as good (opinion). So I decided to take the plunge when Emotiva lowered the price yet again. I believe, for the money there is not a better sub on the market, hands down. I'm still doing a bit of calibrating, but compared to my old Velodyne, (which was a excellent sub by the way), it does a great job.

You mentioned something about the power rating being low on your Velodyne. Apples to oranges, there's a big difference between conventional (large) sub designs and the new modern high powered (small) subs, but that's where the line is drawn. If my Velodyne hadn't died, I'd still be perfectly happy with it, so if you are looking for a home for your "R" think about me. I'd love to have my 1500 back... and with a remote!

Digression. If you are happy with your F1500R, you will be happy with two U12's. I'd even venture to say that you will be extremely happy with two U12's. The 12 doesn't shake the room like the F1500, (I wouldn't expect it to), but two of them will shake the room better. The 12 is punchier, I like that, seems more accurate, (tighter). Can't report on the response curve or how low it really goes, but it goes lower than I can hear, (the room vibrates when I'm not hearing bass), just like it's supposed to! I can't report curves and such, don't have the equipment nor the proper environment. These are only my opinions, speakers are a very subjective issue and what I like may not be what anybody else likes. I suggest you buy one and if you like it, I'll trade you mine for your 1500R, cause you need two U12's and I only need one 1500:-). Now that I said that I'm already having second thoughts! It is a good sub.

Bottom line: I was trying to wait until somebody did an actual review on it, but the price drop made it irresistible. Now, If I could figure a way to sneak another one into the room without the wife seeing it the result would be magnificent. I have not experienced the SVS but I can't imagine how a PB12+ could be better than two U12's for half the money.

[ntrain42]

Few things to throw in for speculation here:

A. People need to go LESS off of posted "specifications"(especially watts output from the amplifier) and look more into a subs linear displacement and enclosure volume and type.

The subs linear displacement, enclosure volume and type will on their own really tell you what a sub is and isnt capable of in reality.

Stating that, Emo never did post the actual T/S specs on another thread of the sub itself nor did they post the volume enclosure volume.

Regardless, last friday I finally had a chance to hear the Ultra 12. Didn't sound bad at all. I didnt tune it, but it behaved pretty well and sounded pretty good when driven under its limits. Pretty much in line with one of my old PSW3500's in terms of performance which makes sense since both have roughly the same internal volume roughly, power and linear displacement. One thing I didn't like though was sharp edges and laminated finish(which was not done well, as I can see it pulling from the corners too over time). But for the price paid you really can't expect much more. For $350 is your limit or budget, I really can't think of a better deal regardless.

Also, for those worrying about low frequency performance, it will do 20hz, but there seems to be an infrasonic filter in place, so dont expect much from it below 20hz unless you have a number of them in line.

[alanetta]

Hey Krell,

I hear you about the shirt. I don't remember anything about shirt size either, but sure enough, tailor fit! Nice shirt EMO, thanks!

[Porscheguy]

Jul 11, 2010 15:18:25 GMT -5 alanetta said:

Hey Porscheguy,
I'm new here so I probably don't carry much credibility, but I just replaced my old Velodyne F1500 with one U12. My room is 3500 cu ft. I was also looking at the SVS PB12+ but they are changing it now and no telling if it will ever be as good (opinion). So I decided to take the plunge when Emotiva lowered the price yet again. I believe, for the money there is not a better sub on the market, hands down. I'm still doing a bit of calibrating, but compared to my old Velodyne, (which was a excellent sub by the way), it does a great job.

You mentioned something about the power rating being low on your Velodyne. Apples to oranges, there's a big difference between conventional (large) sub designs and the new modern high powered (small) subs, but that's where the line is drawn. If my Velodyne hadn't died, I'd still be perfectly happy with it, so if you are looking for a home for your "R" think about me. I'd love to have my 1500 back... and with a remote!

Digression. If you are happy with your F1500R, you will be happy with two U12's. I'd even venture to say that you will be extremely happy with two U12's. The 12 doesn't shake the room like the F1500, (I wouldn't expect it to), but two of them will shake the room better. The 12 is punchier, I like that, seems more accurate, (tighter). Can't report on the response curve or how low it really goes, but it goes lower than I can hear, (the room vibrates when I'm not hearing bass), just like it's supposed to! I can't report curves and such, don't have the equipment nor the proper environment. These are only my opinions, speakers are a very subjective issue and what I like may not be what anybody else likes. I suggest you buy one and if you like it, I'll trade you mine for your 1500R, cause you need two U12's and I only need one 1500:-). Now that I said that I'm already having second thoughts! It is a good sub.

Bottom line: I was trying to wait until somebody did an actual review on it, but the price drop made it irresistible. Now, If I could figure a way to sneak another one into the room without the wife seeing it the result would be magnificent. I have not experienced the SVS but I can't imagine how a PB12+ could be better than two U12's for half the money.

As I said, I love my Velo for music - sealed, servo, fast and it will play to 18hz - just not loudly. It's really not a HT sub especially in my 7000 cu ft room.

You mention the PB12+ is being changed, I'm not aware of that. They are adding a line of sealed box subs the SB series. I believe they are made in Taiwan.

I had a chance a few weeks ago to pick up another 1500R that was in mint condition for $350 bucks but I passed on it. I'm not sure 2 1500 will solve my problem.

I might still try to buy something used like a DD-18 or a Paradigm Sub-2 if I can get a decent price. One problem is everything is always in Cherry or Rosewood or gloss black and I don't want any of those.. My Snells are Oak and I'd like that or at least flat black (even though I'm sick of it.)