ntrain42
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Post by ntrain42 on Nov 15, 2010 15:04:30 GMT -5
Hey all. As some of you may know, the first amplifier purchases I made were the Emotiva UPA-1 mono blocks. I ordered two of them when they were first released to use for a stereo pair. I really like the UPA-1 amps and they are a great bang for the buck. I had originally planned on ordering a UPA-5 to pair with these amps to have the ability to externally amplify a 7.X HT system. Well, I missed out on the spooky sale for the UPA-5 and when the current holiday sale began, I didn't want to miss another great deal. I almost immediately decided to jump on the XPA-5. This was a fantastic move, to be sure. The build quality was excellent, it had more power than I was originally going to buy, and the one thing I found MOST impressive...it had seemingly endless amounts of headroom! Seriously, I am amazed at this more than I describe in words. Well, all of this headroom created a greater "power reserve", and a better revealing of details in the music or movie that I was playing. I now had an itch! For me, music is more important than movies. I really want to have the best experience as possible when it comes to 2 channel listening...so, I began to do some homework. I started looking at the amplifier spec sheets, trying to figure out what makes them "tick". Why was the performance of one particular amplifier is different from another. What made it better or worse in various areas. I also started reading some more amplifier reviews. Trying to learn from the professionals what I could when it came to amplifier design and performance. When I thought I had a grasp on the concepts of a single ended vs. a fully differential design, plus the how and why an amplifier has dynamics and headroom, I became enthralled with the idea of the XPA-1 amplifiers. Well today I decided to call the very nice, and very informative man himself...Lonnie. After explaining to Lonnie what I heard with my amps and asking a few questions, he asked if I knew how a fully differential amplifier design works. I explained to him my best understanding and he told me "Well, you're close" ;D Then he went on to tell me all of the tech stuff about how the design works, and answered any questions along the way. I mentioned to him my love of the seemingly endless headroom of the XPA-5 running in stereo mode and he explained to me why. Basically, Chuckie was correct in the thread I had posted in tech talk where I was comparing amplifier specs. It is because the components inside the XPA-5 are designed to be able to push 5 channels simultaneously. When there are less channels than 5 running OR (for example) the surround channels aren't demanding a lot of power, the extra "juice" is sent to where it is needed among the 5 channels. I must say that after experiencing the amazing headroom the XPA-5 provides, I REALLY wanted to have that kind of headroom for music. I felt like I would be doing a dis-service to myself if I didn't go for extra clean, dynamic power and headroom. Soooooo.....after I talked tech with Lonnie...I had him go ahead and transfer me over to Sarah, who took my order for two XPA-1 mono block amplifiers. ;D Needless to say I am more excited than a kid in a candy store. I scheduled Wednesday for my shipping date and I am taking Friday and Saturday off work this week to be home to play! Thanks for reading. -Dave You do know those UPA-1's are nothing more than single channel versions of the XPA-5 right? A single channel XPA-3/5 module with its own power supply. So you already do have the same headroom you experienced with your XPA-5, you just didn't know it. Placebo effect if you ask me.
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Post by paintedklown on Nov 15, 2010 15:07:35 GMT -5
LOL, you guys are cracking' me up. For the record, I bought these amps with the intention that they would be the last amps I would ever need to buy. That is one of the reasons I decided to spring for them honestly. I wanted "no excuses" amps for 2 channel listening so no matter what I purchase down the road, I will never want for more power again. I was kind of concerned about always wishing I had bought them while on sale, and living the rest of my life regretting it if I didn't. I sort of have this philosophy of "why not" when it comes to something that will provide me with so much joy and happiness. For me, it's not about gear, or bragging rights, or any of that stuff. It really is all about getting the best sound I can possibly obtain. When I started learning about the design of these amps and why they are what they are, something just clicked in my head. It just " feels" like these were designed to be the ultimate expression of how an amplifier should work, if you remove everything from the equation and only focus on the goal of sound reproduction. I mean REALLY digging in, "pulling out all the stops", and building the best possible amplifier that you can do with the technology available today, these are what you would come up with. Don't get me wrong, I am not saying these are the best amplifiers on the planet, I have no idea. What I feel I know is that these amplifiers have the best amplifier design on the planet. I hope that makes sense. Since I was a small child I have always loved music. Everywhere I went I took music with me. When I was in grade school I took a portable "boom box" with me to school and kept it in my locker to take out to recess, just so I could have my music with me. When I would go anywhere with my parents I would bring my music with me there as well. I could never go anywhere, or do anything, without having music with me. As I grew older I got into playing music. Writing and recording my own songs, ect. I also have built a VERY modest home studio through the years to make it easier to do. Then I discovered the world of HI-FI audio reproduction gear. Before this I only knew about receivers and thought they were good. And they are ok for the average listener. However, for me, I just feel like music has played such a huge role in my life that I HAD to get the best I could. That is when I turned to Emotiva. The "audiophile" world showed me a level of performance that I had never even dreamed of. I had no idea that gear was even made that COULD reproduce music the way this gear does. Once I had a taste of what it could do, I became curious as to what other "level" of reproduction was available. That is when I started learning about fully deferential amplifier designs. In the recording world there are old mixing consoles that are VERY highly sought after named Neve. They were designed by a man named Rupert Neve, and the reason they are so regarded is because of their design...they are also a fully differential design. Hmmm...maybe I am on to something here. ;D Anyway, sorry for the long post, but I wanted to explain why the quick change to the XPA-1 amps. The UPA-1 amps aren't lacking in any way, I just NEED to have amplifiers that will give me the best listening experience I can have. Thanks for reading. -Dave
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NorthStar
Seeker Of Truth
"And it stoned me to my soul" - Van Morrison
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Post by NorthStar on Nov 15, 2010 15:09:33 GMT -5
By the way, me know that there is a typo about the UPA-5 (60,000 uF instead of 90,000). I think everybody knows by now Bob. How come I'm always the last in line to know about those things!
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Post by paintedklown on Nov 15, 2010 16:00:23 GMT -5
You do know those UPA-1's are nothing more than single channel versions of the XPA-5 right? A single channel XPA-3/5 module with its own power supply. So you already do have the same headroom you experienced with your XPA-5, you just didn't know it. Placebo effect if you ask me. Perhaps there is a bit of placebo effect taking place, but I am not sure how...I honestly expected the UPA-1s to out perform the XPA-5 for 2 channel listening. When I spoke with Lonnie today he explained why I had heard the extra headroom with the XPA-5. It is really all about the transformer in there. When the other 3 channels of the XPA-5 are sitting idle, they aren't "taxing" the power supply, or secondary capacitance at all. This extra "energy" is then routed to where it is needed in the amplifier. If you would like a technical explanation then I encourage you to ask Lonnie (or perhaps he will chime in). Having just heard it in a phone conversation, I am not truly "studied up" on the scientific facts of why I heard what I did. To the users of the UPA-1s, none of this is a slight to those amplifiers at all. They are excellent amplifiers and a tremendous value in the audio world. I absolutely LOVED my UPA-1s.
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ntrain42
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Post by ntrain42 on Nov 15, 2010 16:27:34 GMT -5
You do know those UPA-1's are nothing more than single channel versions of the XPA-5 right? A single channel XPA-3/5 module with its own power supply. So you already do have the same headroom you experienced with your XPA-5, you just didn't know it. Placebo effect if you ask me. Perhaps there is a bit of placebo effect taking place, but I am not sure how...I honestly expected the UPA-1s to out perform the XPA-5 for 2 channel listening. When I spoke with Lonnie today he explained why I had heard the extra headroom with the XPA-5. It is really all about the transformer in there. When the other 3 channels of the XPA-5 are sitting idle, they aren't "taxing" the power supply, or secondary capacitance at all. This extra "energy" is then routed to where it is needed in the amplifier. If you would like a technical explanation then I encourage you to ask Lonnie (or perhaps he will chime in). Having just heard it in a phone conversation, I am not truly "studied up" on the scientific facts of why I heard what I did. To the users of the UPA-1s, none of this is a slight to those amplifiers at all. They are excellent amplifiers and a tremendous value in the audio world. I absolutely LOVED my UPA-1s. The UPA-1's actually do outperform the XPA-5 in a few areas. Noisefloor is one. Channel seperation/lack of any crosstalk is the other. THe XPA-5 does have a larger toroidal PS, but even with only 2 channels driven there is neglible headroom gained. 2 UPA-1's also have a significantly larger secondary capacity bank to compensate for the smaller toriodals. I really think the placebo effect is in swing here to some extent(and no this is NOT a jab, just in case you think it is) being that I own a pair of UPA-1's and am demoing/borrowing an XPA-5 as well currently, since my UPA-7 is now boxed up as it was not a good fit for multizone use. The XPA-5 is a fantastic amp btw. Good pick up for you.
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Post by strindl on Nov 15, 2010 16:27:42 GMT -5
Thanks guys. To be honest, I don't really have the room for them either. Initially, I plan on simply sitting them on the floor. One on either side of the XPA-5. The great thing about it is that when I had learned some of the design advantages I had my GF listen to my current gear, and explain why the XPA-1 amps would be even better. Judging by her reaction when I was explaining what I could, I think somewhere deep down inside she is a little excited about getting them as well. ;D She doesn't really care a whole lot about this stuff but she can notice the changes in the system as I make them. I have also spent time with her, doing some A/B testing so she would have a first hand understanding as what was going on. It made me smile REAL big one day when she started telling me what she was hearing...and it was the exact same things I was hearing. ;D There will, of course, be a full review coming for the XPA-5 and the XPA-1 amps as soon as I can get them ready to post. As stated, I am taking Friday and Saturday off this week, and I already informed her that I am not leaving the house at all...I want to get some serious listening time in with these amps. Thanks again guys. I use a pair of XPA-1's with an XPA-5 in my main setup. They work very well with the 1's running the main front and left and the 5's handling the rest. The XPA-1's are dead silent..I can put my ear right up to the tweeters on my Thiel 3.6's and if I listen REAL close with my ear right there, I can hear maybe a feint amount of hiss. Move my ear an inch or two away...and silence. I also had a space problem in my equipment shelf and ended up placing the XPA-1's on top of the Velodyne F1500R subs I have in each front corner...behind and to the sides of the Thiels.
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Pauly
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Post by Pauly on Nov 15, 2010 16:33:44 GMT -5
There is nothing wrong with your decision klown! I fully support the idea of getting what you feel is the "best". It doesn't matter what the specs are, or what others say about this amp or that amp. What really matters most, is that you're happy with your purchase, that you feel you are getting the most bang for your buck, and that you have zero doubts or "what if" thoughts. One of the best parts of this hobby IMO, is upgrading until you have what you feel is the best. Then when that feeling goes away(hopefully in a very long time), you get something else. It's all about experimenting, finding new sounds in your system that weren't there before, and experiencing the different levels of performance from the thousands of different pieces of gear out there. Life is good, and I think you're life will be better with the XPA-1s!
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Post by Mischief on Nov 15, 2010 16:44:15 GMT -5
Does somebody have a case of the Mondays
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NorthStar
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"And it stoned me to my soul" - Van Morrison
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Post by NorthStar on Nov 15, 2010 16:49:59 GMT -5
Nope, only the Tuesdays for me.
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Pauly
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Post by Pauly on Nov 15, 2010 16:53:55 GMT -5
Wednesdays for me.
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Post by paintedklown on Nov 15, 2010 16:58:22 GMT -5
The XPA-1's are dead silent..I can put my ear right up to the tweeters on my Thiel 3.6's and if I listen REAL close with my ear right there, I can hear maybe a feint amount of hiss. Move my ear an inch or two away...and silence. Awesome! This is exactly what I wanted to hear. That was, quite honestly, my biggest concern with moving to the XPA-1s. I was worried amps that big may introduce some unwanted hiss into my system. The UPA-1s are DEAD silent. I was actually shocked at how quiet these amps are. I even brought friends over to show them when I discovered how quiet they actually are. Ntrain: I do not think you are taking jabs at me. We all have our own opinions regarding various gear. That's why everyone in the world doesn't have the exact same setup. I do agree with you 100% on the two areas you mentioned where the UPA-1 out performs the XPA-5. The XPA-5 isn't as quiet IMO, and of course there is no way for them to have any crosstalk. Thanks again for all of the support guys. I am hoping these will get me to "audio nirvana" ;D
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ntrain42
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Post by ntrain42 on Nov 15, 2010 17:00:55 GMT -5
The XPA-1's are dead silent..I can put my ear right up to the tweeters on my Thiel 3.6's and if I listen REAL close with my ear right there, I can hear maybe a feint amount of hiss. Move my ear an inch or two away...and silence. Awesome! This is exactly what I wanted to hear. That was, quite honestly, my biggest concern with moving to the XPA-1s. I was worried that amps that big may introduce some unwanted hiss into my system. The UPA-1s are DEAD silent. I was actually shocked at how quiet these amps are. I even brought friends over to show them when I discovered how quiet they actually are. Ntrain: I do not think you are taking jabs at me. We all have our own opinions regarding various gear. That's why everyone in the world doesn't have the exact same setup. I do agree with you 100% on the two areas you mentioned where the UPA-1 out performs the XPA-5. The XPA-5 isn't as quiet IMO, and of course there is no way for them to have any crosstalk. Thanks again for all of the support guys. I am hoping these will get me to "audio nirvana" ;D The XPA-1's are balanced differential amps which helps reduce the noise floor to compensate for the extra 3-4db power increase. Absolute noisefloor, and 20hz-20khz THD is very close between the UPA-1's and XPA-1's. If you have low sensitivity speakers and/or play your music at extremely loud levels then its probably worth the money spent.
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RPA-1 man
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Post by RPA-1 man on Nov 15, 2010 17:22:11 GMT -5
The ultra low noise floor is just one of the things I love about my RPA-1. It's good to know that an amplifier with the output capability of the XPA-1 is extremely quiet as well.
I'm really happy for you paintedklown. I can't wait to read your review. I also think you should do a comparison review between the UPA-1'a and XPA-1's. It would be an interesting read for sure.
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Post by strindl on Nov 15, 2010 17:40:00 GMT -5
Does somebody have a case of the Mondays I'm retired...every day is a weekend.
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Pauly
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Post by Pauly on Nov 15, 2010 17:42:29 GMT -5
Hah, me too strindl! Although, with two young kids running around, it feels like a full time job lol.
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Post by johndavidson on Nov 15, 2010 18:16:12 GMT -5
By the way, me know that there is a typo about the UPA-5 (60,000 uF instead of 90,000). LOTR, Has Lonnie commented on this being a typo? I notice the thread has been locked.
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Post by Porscheguy on Nov 15, 2010 18:17:06 GMT -5
Congrats! Got me a pair too! We'll have to compare notes :-)
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RPA-1 man
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Post by RPA-1 man on Nov 15, 2010 19:14:30 GMT -5
By the way, me know that there is a typo about the UPA-5 (60,000 uF instead of 90,000). LOTR, Has Lonnie commented on this being a typo? I notice the thread has been locked. I just checked the product page and it still states 90,000uf. I'm cerain it will be changed as soon as humanly possible. Now back to our regularly scheduled program.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Nov 15, 2010 20:18:23 GMT -5
ntrain: I have to ask, is that you in your avatar ? My next response depends on your answer
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ntrain42
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Post by ntrain42 on Nov 15, 2010 21:01:24 GMT -5
ntrain: I have to ask, is that you in your avatar ? My next response depends on your answer Why don't you give me back 2 answers. One based on "yes" and one based on "no". ;D
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