Pauly
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Post by Pauly on Jan 13, 2011 17:13:46 GMT -5
I like that post 45acp. Even though you have a great new NAD, and you've had bad experiences with Emo amps, you are still able to give them some credit. The same can not be said about other people, and I respect you for it.
I guess it depends on a person's definition of "big boys". If that's Parasound New Classic, lower end NAD, Cambridge Audio, Outlaw etc, then they are definitely in the same league, and in many cases better.
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jamrock
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Post by jamrock on Jan 13, 2011 18:40:12 GMT -5
I smell something libelous. I think that I could easily prove forethought and malice. To say that I can publicly defame your product without proof, means money out your pocket and/or censure. I'm just saying!
jamrock
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ntrain42
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Post by ntrain42 on Jan 13, 2011 20:18:42 GMT -5
Well boy oh boy, I stand by my original post. Emo does not cut corners. No, they aren't extravagant, and they don't spend money on cosmetics, but they do make sure that the money is spent in the right places and in that sense they do not skimp. Like Porscheguy wrote in another thread, open up one of their amps (or speakers for that matter) and take a look and compare to something that costs 5x as much.. what parts/construction in the more expensive one is all that much better? I also point to the review of the Ultra 12 just posted, and how they commended the quality of the unit. The emo stuff is very nice for the dollar, no doubt. But, better than gear costing 5 times as much? Really? You must have never looked under the hood of any real amps than. Even other Chinese amps such as NAD. I only state that because I just went from a 10 Year old B&K ref7250 to a Emo UPA-5 X2 bouth were bad. Now I have a NAD M-25 wich is a far better amp than anything Emo makes. The parts NAD uses are far better and more presice. Now I have friends with xpa 1's and even some family members with xpa 5's and they are very good. I was not so lucky, but, all in all Emo is not bad stuff. It just is not in the same league as the big boys when it comes to sq, bq, and the quality of parts. I think for the money Emotiva amps are very good. I'd sure as hell take one over ANY B&K amp, which I used to sell, as we had a rediculously high defect rate on them. Even Proceed(generic "Mark Levinson" product)was a very unreliable product(Specifically the AMP 5 and HPA series),even though the SQ and output was excellent. THe Emotiva amps I have owned have had 0 issues(other than a poor crosstalk spec on the UPA-7)and have run flawlessly. I have seen a rash of issues lately posted on the boards with Emo amps, but I believe the defect rate on em is still pretty low overall as Emo does do considerable volume sales on em and always seem to be back ordered on a number of the popular models.
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Post by thepcguy on Jan 13, 2011 20:59:58 GMT -5
The emo stuff is very nice for the dollar, no doubt. But, better than gear costing 5 times as much? Really? You must have never looked under the hood of any real amps than. Even other Chinese amps such as NAD. I only state that because I just went from a 10 Year old B&K ref7250 to a Emo UPA-5 X2 bouth were bad. Now I have a NAD M-25 wich is a far better amp than anything Emo makes. The parts NAD uses are far better and more presice. Now I have friends with xpa 1's and even some family members with xpa 5's and they are very good. I was not so lucky, but, all in all Emo is not bad stuff. It just is not in the same league as the big boys when it comes to sq, bq, and the quality of parts. These are just pure speculations on your part if you can not back it up with facts. Fact is, it has been shown in controlled listening tests that quality Amps sounds similar and no one has ever heard any difference when operated at precisely matched levels.
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Post by KrellAV on Jan 13, 2011 21:34:57 GMT -5
Well boy oh boy, I stand by my original post. Emo does not cut corners. No, they aren't extravagant, and they don't spend money on cosmetics, but they do make sure that the money is spent in the right places and in that sense they do not skimp. Like Porscheguy wrote in another thread, open up one of their amps (or speakers for that matter) and take a look and compare to something that costs 5x as much.. what parts/construction in the more expensive one is all that much better? I also point to the review of the Ultra 12 just posted, and how they commended the quality of the unit. The emo stuff is very nice for the dollar, no doubt. But, better than gear costing 5 times as much? Really? You must have never looked under the hood of any real amps than. Even other Chinese amps such as NAD. I only state that because I just went from a 10 Year old B&K ref7250 to a Emo UPA-5 X2 bouth were bad. Now I have a NAD M-25 wich is a far better amp than anything Emo makes. The parts NAD uses are far better and more presice. Now I have friends with xpa 1's and even some family members with xpa 5's and they are very good. I was not so lucky, but, all in all Emo is not bad stuff. It just is not in the same league as the big boys when it comes to sq, bq, and the quality of parts. 45, Sorry for the thread jack but I find this statement interesting and a little derogatory, " Now I have a NAD M-25 wich is a far better amp than anything Emo makes. It just is not in the same league as the big boys when it comes to sq, bq, and the quality of parts.". I have never owned or listened to the M-25 but I have owned and am familiar with other, older NAD products. My experience has been that NAD was somewhat of lesser quality than the B&K amps in direct comparison. Maybe they have changed in quality over the last ~15 years. They didn't use the better toroidal transformers in the power supply and their amp sections were not very strong when compared to other options. This is not intended to diminish them but just to state my experience and opinion as you did. Your comments on "sq" are interesting as well. I have owned a lot of gear and have been somewhat of a snob with regard to the perception of "value" audio equipment of which I considered NAD, Adcom, Emotiva, etc. to be a part of over the years. I have purchased and compared the XPA-5 directly with the Krell TAS amplifier and it has held it's own, much to my surprise. I readily admit to being a Krell fan of the older products. The XPA does not have the low impedance (<2 ohms) drive capabilities of the TAS but the sonics are very good and it is very quiet. Based on this experience, I thought I would try the XPA-1s in my theater application. I have Belles monos in this setup as well. The XPA-1s beat the Belles amps in bass extension, soundstage and clarity which completely shocked me! The Belles amps have a long history of quality sound and build quality but the XPA-1s were clearly better. On the build quality point, I cannot state that the build quality rivals a Krell product because that would be an over statement! I do think that they have built a fine product that is aggressively priced so that more people can enjoy this hobby. I own 6 amps and I would not hesitate to purchase another amp from Emotiva! I understand you had a bad experience (sorry), I guess that happens sometimes. I am glad you are enjoying your NAD and hope you have no issues with it. KrellAV
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Post by 45acpauto on Jan 13, 2011 22:49:38 GMT -5
The emo stuff is very nice for the dollar, no doubt. But, better than gear costing 5 times as much? Really? You must have never looked under the hood of any real amps than. Even other Chinese amps such as NAD. I only state that because I just went from a 10 Year old B&K ref7250 to a Emo UPA-5 X2 bouth were bad. Now I have a NAD M-25 wich is a far better amp than anything Emo makes. The parts NAD uses are far better and more presice. Now I have friends with xpa 1's and even some family members with xpa 5's and they are very good. I was not so lucky, but, all in all Emo is not bad stuff. It just is not in the same league as the big boys when it comes to sq, bq, and the quality of parts. These are just pure speculations on your part if you can not back it up with facts. Fact is, it has been shown in controlled listening tests that quality Amps sounds similar and no one has ever heard any difference when operated at precisely matched levels. Are you kidding me? how old is this??? If you can not hear diff in amps thats your issue. I can and I do hear huge diff's in amps.
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Post by 45acpauto on Jan 13, 2011 22:54:31 GMT -5
The emo stuff is very nice for the dollar, no doubt. But, better than gear costing 5 times as much? Really? You must have never looked under the hood of any real amps than. Even other Chinese amps such as NAD. I only state that because I just went from a 10 Year old B&K ref7250 to a Emo UPA-5 X2 bouth were bad. Now I have a NAD M-25 wich is a far better amp than anything Emo makes. The parts NAD uses are far better and more presice. Now I have friends with xpa 1's and even some family members with xpa 5's and they are very good. I was not so lucky, but, all in all Emo is not bad stuff. It just is not in the same league as the big boys when it comes to sq, bq, and the quality of parts. 45, Sorry for the thread jack but I find this statement interesting and a little derogatory, " Now I have a NAD M-25 wich is a far better amp than anything Emo makes. It just is not in the same league as the big boys when it comes to sq, bq, and the quality of parts.". I have never owned or listened to the M-25 but I have owned and am familiar with other, older NAD products. My experience has been that NAD was somewhat of lesser quality than the B&K amps in direct comparison. Maybe they have changed in quality over the last ~15 years. They didn't use the better toroidal transformers in the power supply and their amp sections were not very strong when compared to other options. This is not intended to diminish them but just to state my experience and opinion as you did. Your comments on "sq" are interesting as well. I have owned a lot of gear and have been somewhat of a snob with regard to the perception of "value" audio equipment of which I considered NAD, Adcom, Emotiva, etc. to be a part of over the years. I have purchased and compared the XPA-5 directly with the Krell TAS amplifier and it has held it's own, much to my surprise. I readily admit to being a Krell fan of the older products. The XPA does not have the low impedance (<2 ohms) drive capabilities of the TAS but the sonics are very good and it is very quiet. Based on this experience, I thought I would try the XPA-1s in my theater application. I have Belles monos in this setup as well. The XPA-1s beat the Belles amps in bass extension, soundstage and clarity which completely shocked me! The Belles amps have a long history of quality sound and build quality but the XPA-1s were clearly better. On the build quality point, I cannot state that the build quality rivals a Krell product because that would be an over statement! I do think that they have built a fine product that is aggressively priced so that more people can enjoy this hobby. I own 6 amps and I would not hesitate to purchase another amp from Emotiva! I understand you had a bad experience (sorry), I guess that happens sometimes. I am glad you are enjoying your NAD and hope you have no issues with it. KrellAV Thats great, like I have stated...... I have many friends with emo amps. They have no probs with them, I had 2 bad ones, so I am done. Like you, I have had many amps and listend to many amps, never had a bad one untill emo. I hope you are enjoying your emo mono's My friend mike loves his.
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Post by stuofsci02 on Jan 13, 2011 22:55:34 GMT -5
Not only is it old, but I am getting tired of PCguy posting it in every thread..
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Post by 45acpauto on Jan 13, 2011 23:02:59 GMT -5
The emo stuff is very nice for the dollar, no doubt. But, better than gear costing 5 times as much? Really? You must have never looked under the hood of any real amps than. Even other Chinese amps such as NAD. I only state that because I just went from a 10 Year old B&K ref7250 to a Emo UPA-5 X2 bouth were bad. Now I have a NAD M-25 wich is a far better amp than anything Emo makes. The parts NAD uses are far better and more presice. Now I have friends with xpa 1's and even some family members with xpa 5's and they are very good. I was not so lucky, but, all in all Emo is not bad stuff. It just is not in the same league as the big boys when it comes to sq, bq, and the quality of parts. I think for the money Emotiva amps are very good. I'd sure as hell take one over ANY B&K amp, which I used to sell, as we had a rediculously high defect rate on them. Even Proceed(generic "Mark Levinson" product)was a very unreliable product(Specifically the AMP 5 and HPA series),even though the SQ and output was excellent. THe Emotiva amps I have owned have had 0 issues(other than a poor crosstalk spec on the UPA-7)and have run flawlessly. I have seen a rash of issues lately posted on the boards with Emo amps, but I believe the defect rate on em is still pretty low overall as Emo does do considerable volume sales on em and always seem to be back ordered on a number of the popular models. Thats really funny that you guys had a high defect rate with B&K. Man, I have had my B&K REF7270 in my theater for like 8-9 years now. Not only that but I drive the hell out of it with 7 4ohm speakers on it. I am running original M&K S-150's across the front with SS-150 tri's and S-85's for surround backs. I love my B&K amp, the thing just sounds so good and very dynamic with tons of headroom. I guess people just have diff luck with products. I have sold B&K for years and have seen very few defects from them. FYI, they were just bought by ATI, thats great news.
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ntrain42
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Smoke me a kipper, I'll be home before breakfast!
Posts: 2,969
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Post by ntrain42 on Jan 13, 2011 23:06:14 GMT -5
I think for the money Emotiva amps are very good. I'd sure as hell take one over ANY B&K amp, which I used to sell, as we had a rediculously high defect rate on them. Even Proceed(generic "Mark Levinson" product)was a very unreliable product(Specifically the AMP 5 and HPA series),even though the SQ and output was excellent. THe Emotiva amps I have owned have had 0 issues(other than a poor crosstalk spec on the UPA-7)and have run flawlessly. I have seen a rash of issues lately posted on the boards with Emo amps, but I believe the defect rate on em is still pretty low overall as Emo does do considerable volume sales on em and always seem to be back ordered on a number of the popular models. Thats really funny that you guys had a high defect rate with B&K. Man, I have had my B&K REF7270 in my theater for like 8-9 years now. Not only that but I drive the hell out of it with 7 4ohm speakers on it. I am running original M&K S-150's across the front with SS-150 tri's and S-85's for surround backs. I love my B&K amp, the thing just sounds so good and very dynamic with tons of headroom. I guess people just have diff luck with products. I have sold B&K for years and have seen very few defects from them. FYI, they were just bought by ATI, thats great news. We're talking about a high defect rate nearing a whooping 50% over 20 plus stores. This is back in the mid / late 90's, the defect rate was so bad the company ended up dropping B&K(purely because of the RMA issues) and eventually Proceed( 50/50 on RMA and lack of sales).
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Post by thepcguy on Jan 14, 2011 4:10:19 GMT -5
Not only is it old, but I am getting tired of PCguy posting it in every thread.. I am glad you read every thread here specially my posts! ;D
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Post by thepcguy on Jan 14, 2011 4:17:05 GMT -5
Are you kidding me? how old is this??? If you can not hear diff in amps thats your issue. I can and I do hear huge diff's in amps. And you expect us to believe you?
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Post by 45acpauto on Jan 14, 2011 9:29:44 GMT -5
Ntrain, that sounds odd to me but I believe you. I have had very good luck with B&K amps.
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Post by 45acpauto on Jan 14, 2011 9:30:38 GMT -5
Are you kidding me? how old is this??? If you can not hear diff in amps thats your issue. I can and I do hear huge diff's in amps. And you expect us to believe you? No I do not!!!! I could care less what you believe.
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Post by solarrdadd on Jan 18, 2011 23:50:16 GMT -5
i placed an order for one tonight. I will replace my US10 that's currently in my main HT room with the US12 and move the US10 to the smaller secondary HT setup that's in my basement office. i couldn't resist with the sale price, free shipping and the review. the current sub in the basement office is an 8" downfiring yammy so i know what an improvement over that i will now have in the basement office--the good thing about that is now i probably won't replace my speakers now with the US10 going down stairs. in the basement office i've got a pair of Polk Audio TSi200's and a CS10 center and two tiny technics surrounds all of which will sound like new with that sub! The main HT room and gear will really enjoy the boost that I will get from the US12. I would expect to have it either Friday or Monday the lastest. I'll be sure to let you all know when I get it! That was a very nice and compelling review; it worked like a charm on me! That and the fact that I already own the US10 so I knew what I was getting into. It's just nice to hear the pro's give emo some love and mad respect for what they do and at the price that they are able to do it at for us!
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NorthStar
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"And it stoned me to my soul" - Van Morrison
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Post by NorthStar on Jan 19, 2011 0:48:42 GMT -5
i placed an order for one tonight. I will replace my US10 that's currently in my main HT room with the US12 and move the US10 to the smaller secondary HT setup that's in my basement office. i couldn't resist with the sale price, free shipping and the review. the current sub in the basement office is an 8" downfiring yammy so i know what an improvement over that i will now have in the basement office--the good thing about that is now i probably won't replace my speakers now with the US10 going down stairs. in the basement office i've got a pair of Polk Audio TSi200's and a CS10 center and two tiny technics surrounds all of which will sound like new with that sub! The main HT room and gear will really enjoy the boost that I will get from the US12. I would expect to have it either Friday or Monday the lastest. I'll be sure to let you all know when I get it! That was a very nice and compelling review; it worked like a charm on me! That and the fact that I already own the US10 so I knew what I was getting into. It's just nice to hear the pro's give emo some love and mad respect for what they do and at the price that they are able to do it at for us! Be prepared to be blown away!
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geebo
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"Too bad that all the people who know how to run the country are driving taxicabs and cutting hair"
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Post by geebo on Jan 19, 2011 8:39:53 GMT -5
Congrats and be sure to let us know how it compares to the US10.
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Post by solarrdadd on Jan 24, 2011 14:17:49 GMT -5
well, my US12 arrived today. I unboxed it, put the rubber feet on it and am letting it sit for a couple of hours since it's been in that cold FedEx warehouse all weekend. I'll connect it to the system later and give it a roll. the US 10 will be moved to the secondary HT in the basement office and it will replace an 8" yammy sub; this will be a very strong upgrade going from the 8 to the 10. the US12 will have a nice little range upgrade in the main HT room. here is a link to some pictures of the US12 and it's unboxing! yes, I am very happy thus far! with all my emo gear, far, i wouldn't expect to be anything else! www.blu-ray.com/community/gallery.php?member=solarrdadd&folderid=5150
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Post by flamingeye on Jan 24, 2011 17:19:47 GMT -5
Well boy oh boy, I stand by my original post. Emo does not cut corners. No, they aren't extravagant, and they don't spend money on cosmetics, but they do make sure that the money is spent in the right places and in that sense they do not skimp. Like Porscheguy wrote in another thread, open up one of their amps (or speakers for that matter) and take a look and compare to something that costs 5x as much.. what parts/construction in the more expensive one is all that much better? I also point to the review of the Ultra 12 just posted, and how they commended the quality of the unit. The emo stuff is very nice for the dollar, no doubt. But, better than gear costing 5 times as much? Really? You must have never looked under the hood of any real amps than. Even other Chinese amps such as NAD. I only state that because I just went from a 10 Year old B&K ref7250 to a Emo UPA-5 X2 bouth were bad. Now I have a NAD M-25 wich is a far better amp than anything Emo makes. The parts NAD uses are far better and more presice. Now I have friends with xpa 1's and even some family members with xpa 5's and they are very good. I was not so lucky, but, all in all Emo is not bad stuff. It just is not in the same league as the big boys when it comes to sq, bq, and the quality of parts. I hope I don`t get in trouble here, but I`ve seen complaints about Nad on AVS forum too though I do not have the links to them sorry , but no company is free from defects it happens and on another note I can fine just as many people as you or anyone else that finds Emotiva amps superior to other amps costing more, but also vis a versa so it seams pointless to bring statements like that up everyone has an opinion, preference and good/bad luck with equipment the real point is are you happy with what you have and can this or that improve upon it it may have more expensive parts in it but can I hear the difference maybe maybe not does it justify the extra cost? Maybe to you but maybe not to me , my emotiva IPS-1 to me does sound just as good as an amp costing $$$$$$ more and that is REAL to me and yes I`ve heard the more expensive amps and owned some of them too but I`m sur there are that do point is there are some of us that do feel that way about are Emotiva gear and to say really is just insulating your opinion is that it`s not fine but don`t say my opinion can not be real because I`ll tell you it`s very real p.s. I`m not some newbe at this ether 30+ years in this hobby and taken every measure over the years to protect my precious hearing
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Post by Porscheguy on Jan 24, 2011 17:27:36 GMT -5
The NAD dealer in my area has about 30 pieces of NAD gear for sale and its all "refurbished". No kiddin', turned me right off...... never seen that in my life. www.spearitsound.com/specials.htm
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