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Post by Boomzilla on Sept 3, 2011 21:44:30 GMT -5
Using my XPA-2 with Thiel 3.6 speakers (nominally, 4 ohms, but typically lower and with wicked phase angles because of the complicated crossover), what characteristics should I be looking for in a speaker cable?
It would seem that with large current demand, the primary measurement of desire would be low series resistance. Any resistance in the speaker cable will play havoc with crossover values. At least, that's the theory...
Cables I have on hand include Nordost Flat-Wire, Kimber 4TC (some Chinese clone, not real Kimber), and some ancient Monster Cable that has lots of copper, but also corrosion (green) around the soldered banana plugs.
I'll try all the in-house stuff out & let y'all know how it goes. If you have proven suggestions, however, for good speaker cable matches for low-impedance speakers, please share!
Thanks.
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Post by bobbyt on Sept 4, 2011 6:10:07 GMT -5
Speaker cable "matches" for low impedance speakers? I think my head just exploded.
In theory, you want some sort of low resistance conductor.
In reality, you want some sort of low resistance conductor.
The resistance of a short, fat piece of stranded ultra pure copper is so low that it's irrelevant. 12 or 14 gauge is overkill for any amount of current you'll possibly pass.
That glittery Nordost crap doesn't know or care what kind of crossover you're running or what your impedance is, just that they got you to pay a 10,000% markup for junk science.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Sept 4, 2011 7:03:06 GMT -5
Speaker cable "matches" for low impedance speakers? I think my head just exploded. In theory, you want some sort of low resistance conductor. In reality, you want some sort of low resistance conductor. The resistance of a short, fat piece of stranded ultra pure copper is so low that it's irrelevant. 12 or 14 gauge is overkill for any amount of current you'll possibly pass. That glittery Nordost crap doesn't know or care what kind of crossover you're running or what your impedance is, just that they got you to pay a 10,000% markup for junk science. You've got that right! |
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DYohn
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Post by DYohn on Sept 4, 2011 8:31:22 GMT -5
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Post by Boomzilla on Sept 6, 2011 3:31:34 GMT -5
OK - (LOL) The late, great Peter Walker (designer of the Quad electrostatic speaker) got it right; when asked "What qualities should a loudspeaker cable have?" he allegedly replied "It would best if it could pass electricity."
My experience with speaker cables is that they do, indeed, sound different, but not in any consistent way. Back in the day, the local audio "saloon" had just gotten their first "weirdo wire," Kimber Kable 4tc. Ever the skeptic, I had the salesman hook one speaker of a pair with Monster, the other with Kimber. The Kimber sounded smoother. I switched the cables R to L (the effect might have been caused by room interaction) - same result. I tried with second set of speakers - same result. I bought the Kimber & wish I still had it.
Was the effect due to series resistance - probably not, but rather to inductance / capacitance effects. Is it consistent enough from speaker to speaker to pay the Kimber rates? Maybe, but synergy plays a big part.
I figure I have such a large investment (relatively speaking) in my system, that a synergistic pair of cables MIGHT be worth the cost (if the cost isn't too high). My odds of finding that synergistic match = about one divided by infinity (unfortunately), unless someone with the same speakers has fortuitous guidance...
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DYohn
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Post by DYohn on Sept 6, 2011 10:30:52 GMT -5
IMNSHO, if speaker cables change the character of the sound, they are defective. YMMV.
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Post by flamingeye on Sept 6, 2011 10:57:34 GMT -5
^True that
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Post by briank on Sept 6, 2011 11:36:01 GMT -5
Then there are a lot of cable companies selling defective cables. ;D
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DYohn
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Post by DYohn on Sept 6, 2011 11:38:02 GMT -5
IMNSHO, if speaker cables change the character of the sound, they are defective. YMMV.[/quote Then there are a lot of cable companies selling defective cables. ;D Indeed there are. |
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Post by briank on Sept 6, 2011 13:02:29 GMT -5
IMNSHO, if speaker cables change the character of the sound, they are defective. YMMV.[/quote Then there are a lot of cable companies selling defective cables. ;D Indeed there are. After experimenting with a variety of speaker cables the past few years, I would have to agree with you in that a lot of cables for sale out there are "defective by design". You can mess up a system quick with a lot of these "expensive" cables. |
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DYohn
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Post by DYohn on Sept 6, 2011 13:15:25 GMT -5
After experimenting with a variety of speaker cables the past few years, I would have to agree with you in that a lot of cables for sale out there are "defective by design". You can mess up a system quick with a lot of these "expensive" cables. Yep. After MANY years of experimenting and testing, IMO the best speaker cables you can buy are made from simple lamp cord with your choice of termination. Spend the money you save on upgrading your speakers, or on more source material.  |
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Post by thepcguy on Sept 6, 2011 13:36:23 GMT -5
Open (literally) your speakers and see how generic and tiny the wires being used from the posts to the drivers, etc. ;D
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Post by briank on Sept 6, 2011 14:59:29 GMT -5
Open (literally) your speakers and see how generic and tiny the wires being used from the posts to the drivers, etc. ;D Not necessary to have 10 gauge wire inside the speaker as it's a short run and nothing wrong with generic as long as it's high purity copper and well designed. I would guess 16 gauge wire inside my speakers but I emailed the builder out of curiosity. |
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Post by Boomzilla on Sept 6, 2011 15:14:15 GMT -5
Well, Thiel goes a bit above the usual "Best Buy" speaker manufacturer in terms of crossover and wiring (and drivers, and cabinets, and...). But I digress. Back to the issue of speaker wires. Since I do happen to already HAVE three different cables on hand, I'll listen myself (what a radical concept!).
Should any of them happen to "make magic" with my system, I'll tell you. Alas, the info probably won't do you any good. What sounds best with my speakers, amps, and room probably won't apply to your rig at all.
As to speaker cables being "filters" or "defective" because they change the sound, yes it is so, IMHO. It is also more sensible to "fix the cause" of problems rather than to try to "apply additional filtering" via cables to compensate for more serious problems elsewhere.
That said, my system is already articulate, well balanced from octave to octave, and suitably powered for the levels I listen to and in the room where I listen. The thing that I have the LEAST control over (and it's the same thing for you, too) is the ROOM where I listen. In my case, I have hard floors, sheetrock walls, and only leather furniture to absorb sound. This makes my room more 'echoey" and "live" than most. If ANY of my components are the least bit bright, then the entire system will be pushed "over the edge" by the room and become unpleasant.
When digital room correction becomes sophisticated enough to tame the room, then I'll get better sound. Until then, I'll have to compensate with "defective" speaker cables & whatever acoustical room treatments meet with the "wife acceptance factor."
Cheers!
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