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Post by House on Dec 30, 2011 15:24:09 GMT -5
as much as i love my emo stuff i could never purchase one of their subs for HT....i just dont have the faith.....id rather have a completely overkill SINGLE sub that i know is never going to break a sweat during movies than deal with hoping a couple less powerful and too small of an enclosure are going to even be able to provide....in the case of subs....size really does matter....
as for music...sure i'd slap an emo sub in my room as it is not huge and none of my music listening requires a retarded huge or powerful sub to satisfy my needs....
emo is all about the price to performance nich.
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jamrock
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Post by jamrock on Dec 30, 2011 16:03:27 GMT -5
There was a thread discussing the pros & cons of small subs vs big subs. I'm not going to resurrect that discussion here. Enough to say that not everyone need a sub(s) that challenge the structural integrity of the room/house in order to enjoy a movie. As I type this, I got up and measured the size of my living room. In the past I used to guess the length & width but I knew the height was 18ft. It measure 32' x 26' x 18' (LxWxH). My 2 U-12s, while not as deep as a Velodyne DD-12, serves up enough bass to make my movie listening experience fulfilling. For you, this would be unsatisfactory. But to each, his own as the saying goes. Miles certainly vary!
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xki
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Post by xki on Dec 30, 2011 18:10:36 GMT -5
..... I have two , 500 watt , 12s in a 10 X 12 room and it rocks. ;D And you can always turn them down to keep the nicknacks in place, or crank them up and pretend you have a lowered, lime green, 93 Buick that sounds like the trunk lid will fall off as is buzzes and rattles past your house. I really love having 2 subs. Even though I have them set just right for the sweet spot, our living room averages 3-4 people at a time and I rarely get a chance to sit in the sweet spot. The kids are usually sitting on the floor to watch movies. No matter where you have to be seated in this space, there is enough low end coverage with 2 subs that you don't miss anything no matter where you are located.
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jamrock
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Post by jamrock on Dec 30, 2011 18:50:30 GMT -5
Right on Bro!
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Post by RadTech on Dec 30, 2011 19:17:26 GMT -5
..... I have two , 500 watt , 12s in a 10 X 12 room and it rocks. ;D And you can always turn them down to keep the nicknacks in place, or crank them up and pretend you have a lowered, lime green, 93 Buick that sounds like the trunk lid will fall off as is buzzes and rattles past your house. I really love having 2 subs. Even though I have them set just right for the sweet spot, our living room averages 3-4 people at a time and I rarely get a chance to sit in the sweet spot. The kids are usually sitting on the floor to watch movies. No matter where you have to be seated in this space, there is enough low end coverage with 2 subs that you don't miss anything no matter where you are located. Neither of them are past 10 o'clock on the volume so they aren't even breaking a sweat. Not to mention, the low end is effortless, tight and smooth. I will say it took a bit of experimentation and some frustration to get it sounding right to me but entirely worth it. I have 3 downstairs and having them spread out seems like it actually helps me keep the overall volume down but still sounds full.
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xki
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Post by xki on Dec 30, 2011 21:25:30 GMT -5
And you can always turn them down to keep the nicknacks in place, or crank them up and pretend you have a lowered, lime green, 93 Buick that sounds like the trunk lid will fall off as is buzzes and rattles past your house. I really love having 2 subs. Even though I have them set just right for the sweet spot, our living room averages 3-4 people at a time and I rarely get a chance to sit in the sweet spot. The kids are usually sitting on the floor to watch movies. No matter where you have to be seated in this space, there is enough low end coverage with 2 subs that you don't miss anything no matter where you are located. Neither of them are past 10 o'clock on the volume so they aren't even breaking a sweat. Not to mention, the low end is effortless, tight and smooth. I will say it took a bit of experimentation and some frustration to get it sounding right to me but entirely worth it. I have 3 downstairs and having them spread out seems like it actually helps me keep the overall volume down but still sounds full. I can picture that pretty well. If you only had 1, it would be screaming close up and whispering at the far corners. Another benefit of multiple subs.
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hemster
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Post by hemster on Dec 30, 2011 21:50:43 GMT -5
With multiple subs, placement is very important, else one could end up with a lot of boominess or muddy lows and even in some cases... localization! (gasp!)
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selkec
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Post by selkec on Dec 30, 2011 22:03:20 GMT -5
as much as i love my emo stuff i could never purchase one of their subs for HT....i just dont have the faith.....id rather have a completely overkill SINGLE sub that i know is never going to break a sweat during movies than deal with hoping a couple less powerful and too small of an enclosure are going to even be able to provide....in the case of subs....size really does matter.... as for music...sure i'd slap an emo sub in my room as it is not huge and none of my music listening requires a retarded huge or powerful sub to satisfy my needs.... emo is all about the price to performance nich. My thoughts exactly!!
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Post by snacker on Dec 30, 2011 22:29:38 GMT -5
I haven't heard the new line of subs but I love my Ultra sub 12s. I would definitely go for two instead of one. Sound is much more balanced. Plus it's fun tweaking them both to get the sound you're looking for. If you get two and have a .1 source don't forget the splitter like I did. I got two Emo subs and then could only hook one up. That sucked for lack of a better term. Good luck!
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Post by doc1963 on Dec 31, 2011 0:29:30 GMT -5
Hey Smitty, do let us know what you decide to do. As you can see here, opinions do vary. Some I personally agree with, others not so much. For instance, I believe you CAN have too much subwoofer. I say this only because I've lived it. I also believe that, like any other loudspeaker, a subwoofer needs to "hit its stride" to sound its best. Dialing them down isn't always the best recourse if you have too much sub for "your" particular environment. For me, good bass is as much "tactile" as it is "audible". If you need to turn them down to achieve good and natural sound, you're likely to lose the physical sensation. If you need to turn them up to achieve that "slam in the chest" or to move your coffee mug magically across the table, they may sound boomy, sloppy and unnatural. If you're lucky, depending upon how your room is constructed, you may strike a happy medium. We "should" buy only what our needs and environment require. In my experiences, I've found out (the hard way) that you'll never buy enough subwoofer, in either quantity or size, to move a concrete slab. In my previous home (where I built my first dedicated basement HT), I employed FIVE subs, two SVS PB12-NSD/2 (two 12" drivers per enclosure), 2 Epik Valors (15" sealed box) and one "vintage" SVS Ultra 12 passive cylinder driven by 1000 watt pro amp. All of these were optimally placed, calibrated both individually and collectively and EQed collectively using a Velodyne SMS-1. Now, if you're counting, that's five 12" drivers, two 15" drivers and approximately 2400 watts of dedicated power..... Did they "move" me...? Well, yes and no. For HT, it was a phenomenal experience "if" I were sitting in the second row seating on the elevated (wood constructed) risers or upstairs in the living room above the HT. However, in the "sweet spot" (so to speak), the "tactile" sensation was no where near what you would imagine considering that much firepower. They did do one hell of a job shaking my ceiling mounted projector though... ;D For music, which is (and will always be) my first love, I utilized only the Epik Valors. The other subs where not used as they did nothing but muddy and bloat the sound. I respect SVS for HT, but their earlier offerings were not "musical" IMO. On the other hand, if "your" listening environment is on a main level of your home (over wood floor joists and/or above your basement), you may end up extremely pleased with the results of one (or two) good subs of moderate size. That may be all that "you" need to fulfill your need. Only you will know this in the end. "Acoustically friendly" room construction and room treatment means everything. After that, it ends up being an unavoidable matter of extensive electronic EQing. Good luck with whatever you decide. There's a lot of useful information contained in this thread. I, personally, respect the input of every single person that has posted here. They are all very knowledgable folks and present good advice based upon experience. As for myself, my twin X-Ref 10s are en route and next weekend I'll be rebuilding "my" system based on my personal "music first" preferences and going on from there. If the X-Ref 10s don't "quite" get me where I want to be for HT, it will be Buttkickers for me. Or, maybe I'll drag that old SVS Ultra cylinder out of storage and use a separate trigger off of the UMC-1 to engage it when needed..... Again, good luck.....
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jamrock
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Post by jamrock on Dec 31, 2011 9:39:48 GMT -5
I love the offerings of my 2 U-12s to the extent that I am itching for the release of the X/REF-15s to complete my dream for 4 subs. The biggest benefit I get from multiple subs is the ability maintain an even response at my listening positions (4). Even off to the side of the room when the bar is located. How much bass is a personal preference just like the personal taste for music. Other than space & affordability, there is no modern literature that recommends that one sub is better than multiple subs. Anything that 1 sub can do, multiple subs can do it much better. And, we should always compare similar subs. Not a well made 15" sub compared to 2 inferior 10" subs. It is always one or multiple of identical subs. That said, there is no absolute right answer because the result is subjected to personal emotions.
Like Doc1963, the OP needs to experiment and find HIS own 'Sweet Spot' It is HIS accoustical environment, HIS mains, HIS pocket book, HIS ears and HIS emotions. You have a right to be happy. Now GO DO IT!
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Post by doc1963 on Dec 31, 2011 22:15:37 GMT -5
I love the offerings of my 2 U-12s to the extent that I am itching for the release of the X/REF-15s to complete my dream for 4 subs. The biggest benefit I get from multiple subs is the ability maintain an even response at my listening positions (4). Even off to the side of the room when the bar is located. How much bass is a personal preference just like the personal taste for music. Other than space & affordability, there is no modern literature that recommends that one sub is better than multiple subs. Anything that 1 sub can do, multiple subs can do it much better. And, we should always compare similar subs. Not a well made 15" sub compared to 2 inferior 10" subs. It is always one or multiple of identical subs. That said, there is no absolute right answer because the result is subjected to personal emotions. Like Doc1963, the OP needs to experiment and find HIS own 'Sweet Spot' It is HIS accoustical environment, HIS mains, HIS pocket book, HIS ears and HIS emotions. You have a right to be happy. Now GO DO IT! Amen brother...!!! And on a personal side note, I've decided to order in a pair of X-Ref 12s as well to see which I will prefer while they are still on sale... ;D
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xki
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Post by xki on Jan 1, 2012 0:15:17 GMT -5
I love the offerings of my 2 U-12s to the extent that I am itching for the release of the X/REF-15s to complete my dream for 4 subs. The biggest benefit I get from multiple subs is the ability maintain an even response at my listening positions (4). Even off to the side of the room when the bar is located. How much bass is a personal preference just like the personal taste for music. Other than space & affordability, there is no modern literature that recommends that one sub is better than multiple subs. Anything that 1 sub can do, multiple subs can do it much better. And, we should always compare similar subs. Not a well made 15" sub compared to 2 inferior 10" subs. It is always one or multiple of identical subs. That said, there is no absolute right answer because the result is subjected to personal emotions. Like Doc1963, the OP needs to experiment and find HIS own 'Sweet Spot' It is HIS accoustical environment, HIS mains, HIS pocket book, HIS ears and HIS emotions. You have a right to be happy. Now GO DO IT! Amen brother...!!! And on a personal side note, I've decided to order in a pair of X-Ref 12s as well to see which I will prefer while they are still on sale... ;D It would then logically follow that even with the preferred sub(s), Butt Kickers take it to a new level, no? I've wondered what those little devils would do. Never had the chance to find out.
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hemster
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Post by hemster on Jan 1, 2012 2:24:01 GMT -5
^ Ha! Once you go with Buttkickers, you'll wonder how you ever did without them! Seriously, the experience of actually feeling the bass is way different than simply hearing it.
I would recommend that if you're considering Buttkickers, consider the weight of your seating and plan the amplification accordingly. You don't want to dampen the vibrations with the seating. I went with a 1000W Buttkicker amp and glad too because my seats are heavy and they're on top of a heavy riser. No regrets whatsoever. PM with any specific questions and I'd be glad to help where I can.
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Post by Deleted on Jan 1, 2012 6:13:27 GMT -5
Smitty, PM sent.
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xki
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Post by xki on Jan 1, 2012 9:54:03 GMT -5
^ Ha! Once you go with Buttkickers, you'll wonder how you ever did without them! Seriously, the experience of actually feeling the bass is way different than simply hearing it. I would recommend that if you're considering Buttkickers, consider the weight of your seating and plan the amplification accordingly. You don't want to dampen the vibrations with the seating. I went with a 1000W Buttkicker amp and glad too because my seats are heavy and they're on top of a heavy riser. No regrets whatsoever. PM with any specific questions and I'd be glad to help where I can. I've read a lot on how to mount, where to mount, size, x-over, amp, etc. There's a lot to know in this area. Our main seating is completely junk at this point. The kids are HARD on furniture. That should get better in the year or 2. Tell me if I'm wrong here.... If you have Butt Kickers, the need for large, potent subs to get that 'feel' really would not be there. Smaller (or single) subs could supply the ear while the kickers would deliver the punch. Of course, you do need to be sitting down!
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hemster
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Post by hemster on Jan 1, 2012 15:22:50 GMT -5
^ Ha! Once you go with Buttkickers, you'll wonder how you ever did without them! Seriously, the experience of actually feeling the bass is way different than simply hearing it. I would recommend that if you're considering Buttkickers, consider the weight of your seating and plan the amplification accordingly. You don't want to dampen the vibrations with the seating. I went with a 1000W Buttkicker amp and glad too because my seats are heavy and they're on top of a heavy riser. No regrets whatsoever. PM with any specific questions and I'd be glad to help where I can. I've read a lot on how to mount, where to mount, size, x-over, amp, etc. There's a lot to know in this area. Our main seating is completely junk at this point. The kids are HARD on furniture. That should get better in the year or 2. Tell me if I'm wrong here.... If you have Butt Kickers, the need for large, potent subs to get that 'feel' really would not be there. Smaller (or single) subs could supply the ear while the kickers would deliver the punch. Of course, you do need to be sitting down! Well, this is true to a degree. You still want to hear the low frequencies from the sub(s) as that's a different sense altogether. Personally I think having 2 subs in my setup was overkill. I didn't get any more out of the experience (of course I was sitting down!). The "feel" of the kickers is quite visceral and effective. So the Ultra-10 (originally intended as the 2nd sub in the theater) is now doing primary sub duty in the family room. When I have people over for the first time and put on Gladiator or Star Wars etc, the look on their faces when they get their "Buttkicked" is priceless!
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xki
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Post by xki on Jan 1, 2012 17:25:26 GMT -5
I've read a lot on how to mount, where to mount, size, x-over, amp, etc. There's a lot to know in this area. Our main seating is completely junk at this point. The kids are HARD on furniture. That should get better in the year or 2. Tell me if I'm wrong here.... If you have Butt Kickers, the need for large, potent subs to get that 'feel' really would not be there. Smaller (or single) subs could supply the ear while the kickers would deliver the punch. Of course, you do need to be sitting down! Well, this is true to a degree. You still want to hear the low frequencies from the sub(s) as that's a different sense altogether. Personally I think having 2 subs in my setup was overkill. I didn't get any more out of the experience (of course I was sitting down!). The "feel" of the kickers is quite visceral and effective. So the Ultra-10 (originally intended as the 2nd sub in the theater) is now doing primary sub duty in the family room. When I have people over for the first time and put on Gladiator or Star Wars etc, the look on their faces when they get their "Buttkicked" is priceless! I REALLY want to be one of those!
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Post by Deleted on Jan 3, 2012 1:19:07 GMT -5
.....I've read a lot on how to mount..... I mostly just watch the videos. ;D ;D
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Post by Deleted on Jan 3, 2012 1:23:22 GMT -5
.....the look on their faces when they get their Buttkicked is priceless!..........I REALLY want to be one of those! Have you considered playing soccer?
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