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Post by dac0964 on May 3, 2013 14:21:40 GMT -5
Is it true that class A amps need to warm up first so that they sound really good? If so, for how long?
In the case of the 1L, would playing it in class a/b warm up the amp for class a listening a few minutes later (or however long the warm up needs to be)?
Just curious.
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Post by garbulky on May 3, 2013 14:29:37 GMT -5
Well, there is a thermal control that prevents it from getting past a certain temperature and if you see by the measurements posted by darkranger it does get pretty toasty very fast. So I guess the only way to say is to listen to it. I've found my xda-1 and UPA-2 combo sounds better the longer it's been left on usually about 1-2 days. But they produce a lot less heat and are very different from the xpa-1 L.
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Post by deltadube on May 3, 2013 14:36:58 GMT -5
i read a pass labs reviewer left the unit on from standby mode for 30 mins ...
takes my oven about 10 mins to be ready to cook at 400 f...
cheers
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Post by Dark Ranger on May 3, 2013 15:18:57 GMT -5
Great news from sheepdog02! Here's a re-post of the XPA-1L stats linked to owners that I'm aware of in this thread. The amplifiers listed here are from the third shipment by Emotiva which include the updated controller code and the corrected internal ground. If I missed anyone that should be on the list, please let me know. neekos (2 amps): OKDR (1 amp): OKaudiophill (2 amps): Buzz/squeal on startup (see notes below) milt99 (2 amps): OKbruinsguy (2 amps): OKwcparks (2 amps): OKmenez (2 amps): OKsheepdog02 (2 amps): OKNotes: As of this moment, everyone except audiophill reports these amps are working properly so far. Audiophill may be dealing with an issue unique to his system or perhaps his amps were not correctly updated (or missed completely by accident). Hopefully we'll hear back on how this is progressing. I just want to shout out to Dan and Lonnie, again, for really stepping up to handle the issues brought forth by customers. You guys did it right and went the extra mile throughout the entire process. Well done, gentlemen! Some folks out there don't understand why customers love Emotiva so much, why it's considered a "cult following." Well, customer service and "doing the right thing" are two BIG reasons (among others) for all the love. Emotiva treats their customers well, actually listens to them, and interacts with customers on a daily basis. It goes beyond buying outstanding products at incredible prices, it's about integrity, respect, and loyalty.  Now we can all sit back and enjoy these fantastic amplifiers the way they were meant to be heard.  THANK YOU, EMOTIVA!! |
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Post by Dark Ranger on May 3, 2013 15:40:05 GMT -5
Very detailed specs! So even in Class A/B mode, they still run warmer by about 20 degrees than the other UPA/XPA gear that you have. Yeah, even in A/B mode the 1L runs hotter than my other gear. It's a powerful amplifier no doubt, but I have a hunch that Lonnie gave it a little more Class A in A/B mode than the usual ~1 watt. With many of Emotiva's other amplifiers, you get around 1 watt or less of Class A before it transitions to A/B. They'll run very cool this way. However, due to the temps of the 1L in A/B mode, I'm wondering if it does like 5 watts (for example) in Class A/B mode before transitioning. I need to drop a line to Emotiva about this, because I'm really curious. Let me ask you this, do you think a 3 inch clearance would be sufficient cooling space? I currently have an open air design rack with several inches of space on all sides. Both racks have an Emo amp that I would like to stack the 1L on. Also, I see in the pic of the bottom that it shows the feet. What is the exact height of the unit? I think 3 inches above the 1L might still be OK as long as all four sides are not blocked. You'll heat up the shelf above the 1L (and whatever is on it), so keep that in mind. You might also consider a low-profile cooling system or perhaps a fan array at the rear of the amp. The idea is that it'll pull the heat that collects in the 3 inches above the amp and dump it behind your rack. Ambient temperatures also play a part. The 1L stands 4 1/16" tall with the feet attached. That is an interesting idea. I've seen it done with computers before and it actually works well. Of course, it's counter-intuitive to submerge electronics in liquid, but that's part of the cool factor. I am thrilled to hear all the great comments! I am also very happy that you guys are enjoying it as much as I do. What can I say other than, Enjoy! ;D Lonnie Lonnie, you are the man! Can I send you a check to show my appreciation for this awesome amplifier? Or maybe I can just promise to to buy more gear. ;D Hey, I do have two more of these bad boys on my list, but the XPA-200 is doing a great job for now. Submerging in oil sounds really cool and I assume workable but I would be very very scared! I heard Jiffy Lube doesn't do oil changes on XPA-1 L's. Funny guy! ;D |
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Post by Dark Ranger on May 3, 2013 15:57:36 GMT -5
Is it true that class A amps need to warm up first so that they sound really good? If so, for how long? Well, these puppies do a pretty good job of warming themselves up. ;D I think you'll find that some folks prefer leaving gear on 24/7 or letting it warm up for X minutes/hours before playing. Personally, I don't pay much attention to it. Could it make a difference? Maybe. I definitely notice an improvement in color saturation and contrast when I let my LCD monitor and TV warm up before playing a movie. When I first turn on the LCD monitor on my computer, the colors are washed out compared to 30 minutes or an hour later. Perhaps there is a similar thing with audio equipment. For critical listening, I usually give it 15 minutes or so to warm up, but most days it's just turn 'em on and go. That's one nice thing about solid state. In the case of the 1L, would playing it in class a/b warm up the amp for class a listening a few minutes later (or however long the warm up needs to be)? Just curious. You could definitely do it that way. However, if I were planning to listen critically in Class A mode, I'd turn it on in Class A mode to begin with. It will heat up faster and you'll get more "warm up" time in Class A mode. If you "warm it up" in Class A/B mode, the amp is actually running cooler than Class A mode. Once you switch to Class A mode, the amp heats up some more now that all cylinders are firing. The only time I really use A/B mode is when I want to control heat or power consumption. Like garbulky mentions, give it a listen yourself and decide. i read a pass labs reviewer left the unit on from standby mode for 30 mins ... takes my oven about 10 mins to be ready to cook at 400 f... cheers Tell you what, I'll run a test sometime later to determine roughly how long it takes to reach the temps I posted earlier. I'll start off with a cool/cold amp, and then turn it on in Class A. I'll measure it a spaced intervals and record the temps. Once they reach equilibrium, I'll record the duration. I can also do the same with A/B mode. Perhaps this would be a good time to do the Centigrade-to-Hippo conversion.  |
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Post by Keith M on May 3, 2013 16:09:30 GMT -5
Sorry if this has already been touched on, but search is not yielding anything for me as LED is not a valid search term. Has anyone found out how to disable the blue LED around the power button?
I purchased two of these amps to drive my main channels. All my equipment is in the adjacent room, but I was planning to put these on on my TV stand as I don't want to rearrange my entire rack to accommodate them and I'm concerned about getting adequate ventilation to them. But having that bright blue light is going to annoy the hell out of me.
I've taken the amp apart to examine the connections around the LED. Unfortunately it appears that they are using a multi-color LED this time, so it's not so easy to disconnect, and I can't find any wire that is obviously labeled "Blue LED". I've tried putting some heavy duty paper that is black on one side in between the LED and the power button, but I'm having some issues due to the tolerances. I'm going to give that another try and see if I can't get it lined up just right, if not I might try painting the inside of the button. I'd rather not do anything permanent, but at least that won't do any harm.
It's just sad that Emotiva won't address this. I've searched and found posts going back years with this complaint on their other products and instructions how to fix some of them. Since my other Emotiva amp is in the other room I've never bothered turning off the status display, so I had assumed when I ordered these that the switch would turn everything off. Electronics companies need to realize that while blue LEDs may be snazzy, they are annoying as hell on equipment that is going to be used in dark rooms.
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hemster
Global Moderator 
Particle Manufacturer
...still listening... still watching
Posts: 51,951
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Post by hemster on May 3, 2013 16:24:29 GMT -5
Sorry if this has already been touched on, but search is not yielding anything for me as LED is not a valid search term. Has anyone found out how to disable the blue LED around the power button? I purchased two of these amps to drive my main channels. All my equipment is in the adjacent room, but I was planning to put these on on my TV stand as I don't want to rearrange my entire rack to accommodate them and I'm concerned about getting adequate ventilation to them. But having that bright blue light is going to annoy the hell out of me. I've taken the amp apart to examine the connections around the LED. Unfortunately it appears that they are using a multi-color LED this time, so it's not so easy to disconnect, and I can't find any wire that is obviously labeled "Blue LED". I've tried putting some heavy duty paper that is black on one side in between the LED and the power button, but I'm having some issues due to the tolerances. I'm going to give that another try and see if I can't get it lined up just right, if not I might try painting the inside of the button. I'd rather not do anything permanent, but at least that won't do any harm. It's just sad that Emotiva won't address this. I've searched and found posts going back years with this complaint on their other products and instructions how to fix some of them. Since my other Emotiva amp is in the other room I've never bothered turning off the status display, so I had assumed when I ordered these that the switch would turn everything off. Electronics companies need to realize that while blue LEDs may be snazzy, they are annoying as hell on equipment that is going to be used in dark rooms. Hey Keith, welcome to the lounge! If you want a permanent solution, try using a fine Sharpie and circle around the button. For a less permanent solution, a small piece of electrical tape on the button will do the trick. |
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Post by dac0964 on May 3, 2013 17:21:38 GMT -5
Well, there is a thermal control that prevents it from getting past a certain temperature and if you see by the measurements posted by darkranger it does get pretty toasty very fast. So I guess the only way to say is to listen to it. I've found my xda-1 and UPA-2 combo sounds better the longer it's been left on usually about 1-2 days. But they produce a lot less heat and are very different from the xpa-1 L. Well, I'm not really concerned about the temp gettiing too hot just the warm up time and if this is necessary. My UPA-200 sound better after an hour of listening even at low level. |
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Post by dac0964 on May 3, 2013 17:51:52 GMT -5
Is it true that class A amps need to warm up first so that they sound really good? If so, for how long? Well, these puppies do a pretty good job of warming themselves up. ;D I think you'll find that some folks prefer leaving gear on 24/7 or letting it warm up for X minutes/hours before playing. Personally, I don't pay much attention to it. Could it make a difference? Maybe. I definitely notice an improvement in color saturation and contrast when I let my LCD monitor and TV warm up before playing a movie. When I first turn on the LCD monitor on my computer, the colors are washed out compared to 30 minutes or an hour later. Perhaps there is a similar thing with audio equipment. For critical listening, I usually give it 15 minutes or so to warm up, but most days it's just turn 'em on and go. That's one nice thing about solid state. You could definitely do it that way. However, if I were planning to listen critically in Class A mode, I'd turn it on in Class A mode to begin with. It will heat up faster and you'll get more "warm up" time in Class A mode. If you "warm it up" in Class A/B mode, the amp is actually running cooler than Class A mode. Once you switch to Class A mode, the amp heats up some more now that all cylinders are firing. The only time I really use A/B mode is when I want to control heat or power consumption. Like garbulky mentions, give it a listen yourself and decide. i read a pass labs reviewer left the unit on from standby mode for 30 mins ... takes my oven about 10 mins to be ready to cook at 400 f... cheers Tell you what, I'll run a test sometime later to determine roughly how long it takes to reach the temps I posted earlier. I'll start off with a cool/cold amp, and then turn it on in Class A. I'll measure it a spaced intervals and record the temps. Once they reach equilibrium, I'll record the duration. I can also do the same with A/B mode. Perhaps this would be a good time to do the Centigrade-to-Hippo conversion. Thanks DR, I understand. My listening habit when I get home is play Pandora while doing various stuff in the house. Then when I'm done, I put on a CD and sit down for critical listening. So I thought it would be a good idea to start the 1L in A/B then when I'm ready put it into class A and by then it should be warm and toasty. |
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Post by dac0964 on May 3, 2013 18:02:39 GMT -5
Sorry if this has already been touched on, but search is not yielding anything for me as LED is not a valid search term. Has anyone found out how to disable the blue LED around the power button? I purchased two of these amps to drive my main channels. All my equipment is in the adjacent room, but I was planning to put these on on my TV stand as I don't want to rearrange my entire rack to accommodate them and I'm concerned about getting adequate ventilation to them. But having that bright blue light is going to annoy the hell out of me. I've taken the amp apart to examine the connections around the LED. Unfortunately it appears that they are using a multi-color LED this time, so it's not so easy to disconnect, and I can't find any wire that is obviously labeled "Blue LED". I've tried putting some heavy duty paper that is black on one side in between the LED and the power button, but I'm having some issues due to the tolerances. I'm going to give that another try and see if I can't get it lined up just right, if not I might try painting the inside of the button. I'd rather not do anything permanent, but at least that won't do any harm. It's just sad that Emotiva won't address this. I've searched and found posts going back years with this complaint on their other products and instructions how to fix some of them. Since my other Emotiva amp is in the other room I've never bothered turning off the status display, so I had assumed when I ordered these that the switch would turn everything off. Electronics companies need to realize that while blue LEDs may be snazzy, they are annoying as hell on equipment that is going to be used in dark rooms. I like it... and I think there are more that like them blue light too than those who don't. Thus, it's still there. |
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Post by Keith M on May 3, 2013 21:04:55 GMT -5
Hey Keith, welcome to the lounge! If you want a permanent solution, try using a fine Sharpie and circle around the button. For a less permanent solution, a small piece of electrical tape on the button will do the trick. Thanks hemster. I've considered those options, but they're not real appealing. I've decided to try some lightdims on the component and see how that works. The LEDs are embedded in a translucent plastic block, so I'm going to cover that up with the lightdims and then cut around the power switch so that moves freely. |
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Post by deltadube on May 4, 2013 0:51:13 GMT -5
Sorry if this has already been touched on, but search is not yielding anything for me as LED is not a valid search term. Has anyone found out how to disable the blue LED around the power button? I purchased two of these amps to drive my main channels. All my equipment is in the adjacent room, but I was planning to put these on on my TV stand as I don't want to rearrange my entire rack to accommodate them and I'm concerned about getting adequate ventilation to them. But having that bright blue light is going to annoy the hell out of me. I've taken the amp apart to examine the connections around the LED. Unfortunately it appears that they are using a multi-color LED this time, so it's not so easy to disconnect, and I can't find any wire that is obviously labeled "Blue LED". I've tried putting some heavy duty paper that is black on one side in between the LED and the power button, but I'm having some issues due to the tolerances. I'm going to give that another try and see if I can't get it lined up just right, if not I might try painting the inside of the button. I'd rather not do anything permanent, but at least that won't do any harm. It's just sad that Emotiva won't address this. I've searched and found posts going back years with this complaint on their other products and instructions how to fix some of them. Since my other Emotiva amp is in the other room I've never bothered turning off the status display, so I had assumed when I ordered these that the switch would turn everything off. Electronics companies need to realize that while blue LEDs may be snazzy, they are annoying as hell on equipment that is going to be used in dark rooms. I like it... and I think there are more that like them blue light too than those who don't. Thus, it's still there. maybe 1/2 the people have a rack in another room... a dimmer option switch would be great on the blue light.. my front speaker stand is blocking the light right now.. it would be pretty bright for me too.. i never touch the buttons on the amps.. so i would have my electrical tape out too... cheers.. |
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Post by wizardofoz on May 4, 2013 1:24:01 GMT -5
On most of the other emo amps and other gear i have opened, modded or repaired the amber is the A wire and the blue is the B wire.
If you are not electronically inclined the tape option is probably best...sharpie maybe a good option too.
Personally i can stand displays and leds that cant be turned off in my ht room...its a distraction...i know when its on as i can hear it playing...amber is fine when its off. I can get my umc-1 and oppo completely blank and thats fine by me.
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Post by Dark Ranger on May 4, 2013 1:26:46 GMT -5
For those inquiring (or just plain curious) about how long it takes for the 1L to heat up, I've got some delicious data for you. ;D Below are two graphs that show temperature as a function of time T(t):   To ensure accuracy, ambient temperature was kept as close to 74.5 F (23.6 C) as possible. Only the XPA-1L and my computer were running during this test, no other amps, processors, or heat generating devices were allowed to be turned on. Initial temps were recorded in two areas before the test. Measurement of these two areas was repeated and recorded every 5 minutes until 60 minutes had elapsed. The red squares correspond to averaged temperatures along the middle and right-side heatsink venting/perforated rows. The blue diamonds correspond to averaged temperatures along the smooth metal strip between the two heatsink venting rows. The green triangles correspond to the ambient temperature. In Class A/B mode, I couldn't quite hit the max temperature mentioned previously. I believe the difference here is that Friday night's test took place with a lower ambient temperature than Thursday's test. I actually let the Class A/B test continue past the 1 hour mark. At 1h 30m I had a reading of 112 F / 113 F for the two monitoring areas mentioned above. Thursday, I had recorded 116 F / 118 F for these two areas, but had a higher ambient temp of 2.5 F. Anyway, you get the idea. If anyone wants to see the raw data and precise recording, let me know...I've got 5 pages of data. ;D |
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Post by pedrocols on May 4, 2013 2:15:25 GMT -5
Wow...all these data and experiments and so and so but all I want to know is if they sound good...Am I allow to ask that? I am sorry if this question was already answered but I didn't want to read all these pages to find out it wasn't...
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hemster
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Particle Manufacturer
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Post by hemster on May 4, 2013 2:59:14 GMT -5
Wow...all these data and experiments and so and so but all I want to know is if they sound good...Am I allow to ask that? I am sorry if this question was already answered but I didn't want to read all these pages to find out it wasn't... No, they sound bad. People just want to measure temperatures for the sake of it. I'm kidding... they sound great! Only 68 pages to read and you have all weekend! ;D |
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Post by Deleted on May 4, 2013 3:59:22 GMT -5
There are two things in life that real macho men want to know how hot they get, amplifiers and women.
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stiehl11
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Give me available light!
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Post by stiehl11 on May 4, 2013 8:01:04 GMT -5
Sorry if this has already been touched on, but search is not yielding anything for me as LED is not a valid search term. Has anyone found out how to disable the blue LED around the power button? I purchased two of these amps to drive my main channels. All my equipment is in the adjacent room, but I was planning to put these on on my TV stand as I don't want to rearrange my entire rack to accommodate them and I'm concerned about getting adequate ventilation to them. But having that bright blue light is going to annoy the hell out of me. I've taken the amp apart to examine the connections around the LED. Unfortunately it appears that they are using a multi-color LED this time, so it's not so easy to disconnect, and I can't find any wire that is obviously labeled "Blue LED". I've tried putting some heavy duty paper that is black on one side in between the LED and the power button, but I'm having some issues due to the tolerances. I'm going to give that another try and see if I can't get it lined up just right, if not I might try painting the inside of the button. I'd rather not do anything permanent, but at least that won't do any harm. It's just sad that Emotiva won't address this. I've searched and found posts going back years with this complaint on their other products and instructions how to fix some of them. Since my other Emotiva amp is in the other room I've never bothered turning off the status display, so I had assumed when I ordered these that the switch would turn everything off. Electronics companies need to realize that while blue LEDs may be snazzy, they are annoying as hell on equipment that is going to be used in dark rooms. On most of the other emo amps and other gear i have opened, modded or repaired the amber is the A wire and the blue is the B wire. If you are not electronically inclined the tape option is probably best...sharpie maybe a good option too. Personally i can stand displays and leds that cant be turned off in my ht room...its a distraction...i know when its on as i can hear it playing...amber is fine when its off. I can get my umc-1 and oppo completely blank and thats fine by me. I know the feeling... I hate having windows at my place; damn squirrels outside keep me distracted with all their running about and going up and down trees! And if it's not the squirrels it the all the birds! I try to kill them but the more I kill the more show up in less than a week. I can't stand it because whether I'm watching TV, listening to music, typing on the computer or eating I just can't keep focused on the task at hand without... SQUIRREL!!! Dammit.  with tongue firmly in cheek ;D |
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Post by Deleted on May 4, 2013 8:03:30 GMT -5
DR wrote:
"Initial temps were recorded in two areas before the test. Measurement of these two areas was repeated and recorded every 5 minutes until 60 minutes had elapsed."
Dude, you have too much time on your hands <g>! May be time to find a part-time job. And you may need it to pay for the increased electrical/cooling costs from using that beast of an amp...
-RW-
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