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Post by skymovessideways on Sept 12, 2012 11:06:40 GMT -5
This is going to be a somewhat complicated question, so try to stick with me ;-)
I have a 7.1 system, see my gear in the sig. My SL/SR speakers are Dali IKON Phantoms mounted in-ceiling. My SBL/SBR speakers are Dali IKON On-Walls mounted on the wall 5 ft behind and to the side of the listener.
This 7.1 speaker setup works great for movies, because the effects from SL/SR are nicely dispersed because of the ceiling mounting.
But, I am an avid DVDA/SACD listener (5.1 hi-resolution surround), and when listening to this type of source material I want to use the direct radiating speakers mounted on the rear-wall as my SL/SR speakers.
The problem is I have not been able to find a way to configure the UMC1 (or any pre/pro that I know of) into a 5.1 mode where it will send the SL/SR source material to the SBL/SBR outputs.
I would even be happy if I could configure the pre-pro to effectively copy the SL/SR source material to BOTH the SL/SR and SBL/SBR outputs, which would allow me to simply turn off the amp trigger to the SL/SR speakers. This would solve my problem.
I accomplish what I want today using the analog 7.1 outputs from my Oppo BDP83se and connect them into the analog 7.1 inputs of the UMC1, connecting SL/SR outputs into the SBL/SBR inputs. This works quite well, but it doesn't allow me to use the EQ, bass management, and room correction of the UM. This admittedly isn't a big deal because I don't currently use EMO-Q, and the DACs in the Oppo are better than in the UMC anyways. But, if I get the XMC, I will want to be able to make use of TACT and the DACs in the XMC will hopefully be as good as in the Oppo.
So, my questions are:
1) can anyone think of a way to configure the UMC to do what I want? Is there a method I am unaware of? 2) will the XMC have this capability? I am hoping somebody at Emotiva, or someone who has an "in" at Emotiva, can comment.
Thanks in advance!
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DYohn
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Post by DYohn on Sept 12, 2012 11:15:35 GMT -5
No, there is no pre/pro that I know of that will allow you to do this sort of thing. The only way I can think of is if you install some external switching to select where either the line level or the speaker level signals are directed and manually switch it as necessary for your desired in-room effect.
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hemster
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Post by hemster on Sept 12, 2012 11:21:51 GMT -5
Although I don't have an "in" at Emotiva, I'll take a stab.. First, I'm not sure that the DAC in the Oppo BDP83 is better than the UMC. I had the BDP83 and UMC in my gear (I subsequently upgraded the BDP83 to BDP95) but honestly I couldn't tell the difference between the 83 and the UMC. The 95 does have better DACs. A match-up of the XMC DAC vs Oppo 93/95 will be very interesting. AFAIK, currently there is no way to do what you're looking to do unfortunately. Your options as you're fully aware are to either not use room correction or use some sort of speaker switch to select between SL/SR and SBL/SBR speakers depending on whether you're watching a movie or listening to SACDs. edit: I dwelled on this response but DYohn is quick as usual!
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DYohn
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Post by DYohn on Sept 12, 2012 11:28:50 GMT -5
DYohn is quick as usual! huh, that's what my wife always says...
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Post by maximumkahuna on Sept 12, 2012 11:40:41 GMT -5
I would even be happy if I could configure the pre-pro to effectively copy the SL/SR source material to BOTH the SL/SR and SBL/SBR outputs, which would allow me to simply turn off the amp trigger to the SL/SR speakers. This would solve my problem. Your only hope may be to use "y" connects and connect your SL/SR outputs to both SL/SR & SBL/SBR amp inputs.
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Post by GTPlus on Sept 12, 2012 13:54:40 GMT -5
How handy are you with a soldering iron? Seems like this could be easily accomplished by a couple of small 12v DPDT relays powered off one of the UMC-1 triggers. It would just be wired to switch your line level outputs of the UMC-1 between the rear and surround amps.
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Post by skymovessideways on Sept 12, 2012 16:55:43 GMT -5
Unfortunately relays or a speaker switch aren't ideal because even though my speakers have identical drivers, their placement affects the level required to match volume at the listening position. Although... is it possible to configure the levels in the UMC on a per-input basis? If so, that might actually work.
Also, I worry that relays or a speaker switch would degrade the sound quality. Can anyone confirm otherwise?
Y-connectors isn't ideal because then I can't do 7.1.
On the XMC1 spec sheet (a PDF) released earlier this year, I thought I saw a feature listed that might be able to accomplish what I want. But, now I can't find that spec sheet. Emotiva probably took it down because it became out-of-date. But, now I can't find it. Did anyone happen to save that PDF?
Thanks for the quick replies!
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Post by skymovessideways on Sept 12, 2012 17:09:11 GMT -5
First, I'm not sure that the DAC in the Oppo BDP83 is better than the UMC. I had the BDP83 and UMC in my gear (I subsequently upgraded the BDP83 to BDP95) but honestly I couldn't tell the difference between the 83 and the UMC. The 95 does have better DACs. A match-up of the XMC DAC vs Oppo 93/95 will be very interesting. I have the BDP83SE (Special Edition) rather than the standard BDP83. It uses ESS Sabre DACs ("premier" on the 7.1 out, and "Ultra" on the 2 channel out), which are widely thought to be some of the best DACs available. I have also verified with my own ear that the Oppo analog outputs sound better than sending the hi-res audio (usually 96k/24bit) to the UMC for digital to analog conversion. Now, the XMC will certainly have better DACs than the UMC1. Will they be as good as the Sabre... perhaps not, but the difference may be negligible, and perhaps TACT or an improved analog section will more than make up for it. I would definitely like to have the option of using the XMCs DACs if I could get it to direct the SL/SR audio to the speakers I want to use. I can't believe I am the only one who would like this feature. And, it seems it would be a very simple feature to implement.
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DYohn
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Post by DYohn on Sept 12, 2012 17:19:03 GMT -5
Here's a way to do it on the line (RCA) side. I did a rough sketch of the Left signal using one Y-cable and one A-B Switch. You'd need to do the same for both Left and Right. This would allow you to manually switch the SL signal to either the SL amp or to both the SL and SBL amps.
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Post by AudioHTIT on Sept 12, 2012 17:22:51 GMT -5
I think my Anthem AVM-30 could "copy" the side content to the rear (for sale in the emporium :~)
GT isn't suggesting a speaker switch but line level, I think that might work too. From discrete 7.1 connections to a Y from the SS on the UMC to SS & SR on the UPA. Probably best done with a box and external connectors, some might say it could be heard but I doubt it, especially on rears. The copy option was nice, I forgot about it.
Edit: Once again dyohn is quick on the draw (sorry, I couldn't resist :~)
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Post by GTPlus on Sept 12, 2012 19:59:59 GMT -5
Unfortunately relays or a speaker switch aren't ideal because even though my speakers have identical drivers, their placement affects the level required to match volume at the listening position. Although... is it possible to configure the levels in the UMC on a per-input basis? If so, that might actually work. Also, I worry that relays or a speaker switch would degrade the sound quality. Can anyone confirm otherwise? Y-connectors isn't ideal because then I can't do 7.1. On the XMC1 spec sheet (a PDF) released earlier this year, I thought I saw a feature listed that might be able to accomplish what I want. But, now I can't find that spec sheet. Emotiva probably took it down because it became out-of-date. But, now I can't find it. Did anyone happen to save that PDF? Thanks for the quick replies! I personally don't think relays on the signal side would degrade sound quality. Assuming of course you use quality relays. I was proposing something that is similar to what dyohn sketched. Just in instead of Physically switching, you would set up one of the umc-1 triggers to give 12v to the relay during sacd playback. Though his idea would be easier and quicker to implement. Wouldn't cost much either.
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bootman
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Post by bootman on Sept 12, 2012 20:55:47 GMT -5
Once again dyohn is quick on the draw (sorry, I couldn't resist :~) Does Dyohn need a blue pill?
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emovac
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Post by emovac on Sept 12, 2012 23:50:54 GMT -5
DYohn's solution will work well. I have a similar setup, but my 7.1 speakers switch between 7.1 use, or use for an extra set of stereo 2.0 speakers. You can pick up a nice A/B RCA switcher at radio shack for around $20.
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Post by skymovessideways on Sept 13, 2012 10:16:43 GMT -5
Thanks to all for the replies. I will try the RCA switcher idea, although I am still concerned about balancing the levels to the Rear Surround speakers in the two modes. Worst case I can temporarily adjust them manually. Since they are the same drivers, they shouldn't be too far off.
Yeah, I've been told that Anthem pre-pros have this feature but I've never been able to afford one :-) I am hoping the XMC will have this feature too. Is there any formal way to request a feature? Just call them?
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Post by moovtune on Sept 13, 2012 10:36:40 GMT -5
I've been using an RCA tape switcher I bought years ago at Radio Shack that had three input toggle switches and three output toggle switches to send to either a receiver (for monitoring the chosen tape deck) or into one of the other tape decks. I've adapted it for this exact use - so LS/RS and LSR/RSR come in different inputs and can then be routed out one of the outputs - one pair goes to the rear surround amp inputs and one to the side surround amp inputs. I use it for switching between the different 7.1 mixes available on Blu-ray, some of which add extra side channels and some of which add extra rear channels. I'm generally set up for the Dolby setup, added rear channels but can switch if the mix is not done that way. But it does require a resetting of speaker levels - but you only need to do it once and write down what they should be, so when you switch you just go in to the level page and set them. I can switch from one to the other in 90 seconds. (Of course the one thing that doesn't follow the switching is EQ for those speakers - whether EmoQ or in my case Audyssey).
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Post by Nemesis.ie on Sept 13, 2012 11:22:59 GMT -5
Thanks to all for the replies. I will try the RCA switcher idea, although I am still concerned about balancing the levels to the Rear Surround speakers in the two modes. Worst case I can temporarily adjust them manually. Since they are the same drivers, they shouldn't be too far off. Yeah, I've been told that Anthem pre-pros have this feature but I've never been able to afford one :-) I am hoping the XMC will have this feature too. Is there any formal way to request a feature? Just call them? You could possibly wire in attenuators in the relay circuit that drops whatever level is the higher when switched to back speakers? Maybe even using trim pots or fancy "lossless resistor ladder" things like Emotiva mention in their preamps.
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DYohn
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Post by DYohn on Sept 13, 2012 11:24:08 GMT -5
"lossless resistor" is such an oxymoron.
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Post by AudioHTIT on Sept 13, 2012 13:20:38 GMT -5
I can't imagine this is difficult to do in software and Anthem's been doing it for years (probably others), I wonder why it hasn't become a more common feature? I'd think one of the eMail accounts at Emotiva would be the best place for an enhancement request (maybe support) - I'm sure they have lists for future firmware updates.
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Post by skymovessideways on Sept 13, 2012 15:46:36 GMT -5
I can't imagine this is difficult to do in software and Anthem's been doing it for years (probably others), I wonder why it hasn't become a more common feature? I'd think one of the eMail accounts at Emotiva would be the best place for an enhancement request (maybe support) - I'm sure they have lists for future firmware updates. I'll be sending the request in to both the "sales" and "support" email addresses. I suggest others do the same if you believe this is a useful feature. Thanks again for all the advice!
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