KeithL
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Post by KeithL on Nov 28, 2012 17:32:11 GMT -5
Rather the opposite: there are a wide variety of UAC2 drivers, and it's not unreasonable to expect that each and every one on every different version of the Apple O/S might be slightly different. Drivers evolve (like every other part of the O/S). If this is a timing issue, as I suspect, then it may even be different with the same driver and O/S depending on what hardware it's running on - and so may occur with certain specific revisions of Apple hardware and not others (there are even several different current versions of Mac Mini hardware at the moment). Unfortunately, problems where a certain combination of hardware and software don't work well together is rather common in the computer world; we're just not used to it with audio. It would be interesting to find out if specific models and O/S versions are prone to the problem... regnad, I just saw your recent post, thanks. For what it's worth, I have not experienced the issues when using digital coax or TOSLINK, only USB with Mac. OK, you say you have a NEW Mac Mini. Interesting. I wonder if the brand new Macs are using a different driver. One would think that a UAC2 driver is a UAC2 driver. I also recall RightinLA uses a Mac with an XDA-2 and AirMotivs. I will contact him today and see if he has any issues, and if not, what age his Mac is.
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Post by TLC510 on Nov 28, 2012 23:02:38 GMT -5
I've got similar problems. Using iTunes on my MacBook and USB, I get the bad noises on every bitrate except 88.2 and 176.4. For some reason it sounds fine when the resampled to those frequencies
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Post by Dark Ranger on Nov 28, 2012 23:13:38 GMT -5
I've got similar problems. Using iTunes on my MacBook and USB, I get the bad noises on every bitrate except 88.2 and 176.4. For some reason it sounds fine when the resampled to those frequencies Thanks for posting. Those are the only two sample rates that work for me, too, without distortion. Oh, if you wouldn't mind, how old is your MacBook (example: Late 2011, early 2012, etc.)? Also, what OS X are you running?
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sorbe
Sensei
"Don't cross the streams..."
Posts: 673
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Post by sorbe on Nov 29, 2012 1:19:12 GMT -5
The periodic screeching noises are NOT particular to just Apple USB. I'm getting them with ALL USB ports and normal cables on Windows 7 x64 every 45 seconds or so playing back music with Windows Media Player.. And this with the 64-bit CMedia USB UAC 2.0 device driver posted on on the XDA-2 product page. I've also gotten two blue screens on this machine in the last 12 hours (none ever before).
I'm listening to Adele 21 and cringing at the sound every minute or so. I'm seriously missing my XDA-1 at this point.
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Post by TLC510 on Nov 29, 2012 2:23:54 GMT -5
I've got similar problems. Using iTunes on my MacBook and USB, I get the bad noises on every bitrate except 88.2 and 176.4. For some reason it sounds fine when the resampled to those frequencies Thanks for posting. Those are the only two sample rates that work for me, too, without distortion. Oh, if you wouldn't mind, how old is your MacBook (example: Late 2011, early 2012, etc.)? Also, what OS X are you running? Mid 2009, most recent version OS X
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Post by paradigmE on Nov 29, 2012 11:57:34 GMT -5
Question:
If I'm going to feed my XDA-2 with 2 TOSLINK feeds, 2 SPDIF coax feeds, and 1 AES/EBU feed, I can feel safe to order this now and will have a full 24/96 flawless experience right? My plan was to also send a USB feed from a windows 7 64 bit system via USB for 24/192 but I figure that will be sorted out in time. I just dont want to move forward if I'm going to have any issues with my other 5 digital (NON USB) feeds.
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Post by Dark Ranger on Nov 29, 2012 13:42:59 GMT -5
Thanks for looking into this for me. I do have "adjust sample rate for best quality" checked. It will play the 96Khz files, but the 88.2's read as 44.1. Maybe Decibel doesn't like 88.2Khz files? ...so confusing. However, when I went to USB, it would read 88.2Khz. ...but the sound isn't right (the original random ringing sound). lol -- hopefully the USB issue can be resolved soon. goat, I will follow-up on this tomorrow. I now own three 24/88.2 albums just purchased yesterday. My mini optical adapter arrives tomorrow, so I can test the 88.2 files with Decibel for you via the Mac optical out. We'll see what kind of strangeness occurs.
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Post by goat1981 on Nov 29, 2012 13:51:08 GMT -5
Awesome! Thanks for doing this.
I have been enjoying the XDA-2 with the TOSLINK outputs...even with the files being downsampled. I just wonder what I am missing if I could get the actual sampling rate with the USB connection (probably not a whole lot, really...but I hope this issue gets resolved).
Thanks for doing this!
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Post by justinsweber on Nov 29, 2012 22:22:35 GMT -5
My XDA came in tonight and I hooked up via USB. This is a New Late 2012 Mac Mini. With the midi set to 44.1 16bit It sounds almost like a chime, but is wrong. The the midi set to 192 and 24 its slower and louder.
My XDA1 does not have this problem.... Please fix it! I so want this to work, but now Im looking to hear from emotiva and lets get some solutions going.
Emotiva.... Please fix or Ill return. My XDA1 never had these issues.
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KeithL
Administrator
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Post by KeithL on Nov 30, 2012 2:38:47 GMT -5
So far we have been able to replicate this problem on one Windows 7-64 bit PC we have. It does NOT occur on the other machines we've tried it on (including several old and not at all powerful machines). It occurs only when the XDA-2 is connected to the front panel USB ports on that machine, and never happens when we connect it to the rear ports on the same machine. (The front and rear USB ports on most PCs are internally connected somewhat differently.) For that reason we suggest that anyone who experiences the problem try a different port, and avoid connecting the XDA-2 to their PC through a long wire or external USB hub. I can tell you that this problem absolutely IS limited to the USB connection and has never been reported on any other type of connection. The XDA-2 uses the C-Media CM6631 high-speed USB interface component (which is highly regarded in terms of sound quality), and this problem has also been reported with other products using the same chip. The problem is relatively uncommon, and we are working with C-Media to find a way to eliminate it entirely. Question: If I'm going to feed my XDA-2 with 2 TOSLINK feeds, 2 SPDIF coax feeds, and 1 AES/EBU feed, I can feel safe to order this now and will have a full 24/96 flawless experience right? My plan was to also send a USB feed from a windows 7 64 bit system via USB for 24/192 but I figure that will be sorted out in time. I just dont want to move forward if I'm going to have any issues with my other 5 digital (NON USB) feeds.
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sorbe
Sensei
"Don't cross the streams..."
Posts: 673
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Post by sorbe on Nov 30, 2012 3:41:49 GMT -5
One thing you should consider, on the Win7 x64 machine *I* have that shows this problem, it happens on ALL the ports (front and back) and the same exact machine worked flawlessly with the XDA-1 -- there were never any OS crashes, driver enhancement OS warnings, recurring audio screeching or multiple misnamed playback devices. It appears to me that all four of these product issues are unique to the XDA-2 and it's CMedia device driver.
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KeithL
Administrator
Posts: 9,958
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Post by KeithL on Nov 30, 2012 10:01:59 GMT -5
The XDA-1 used USB Audio Class 1 (UAC1), which uses drivers that are built into Windows, and which "tops out" at 24/96. (The XDA-1 was limited to 24/48 by its own hardware.) With the XDA-2, (due to popular demand) we upgraded the USB support up to 24/192. That requires different interface hardware on our side, and requires that we move to UAC2. Since Windows doesn't have UAC2 drivers built in, this means that we need additional drivers. In addition, the higher speed connection is also much more particular about the USB hardware on both ends of the connection (and the cable). While this problem only affects a small percentage of PCs, it has been reported with other devices that use the C-Media CM6631 chip (which is what we use, and which is actually the most popular high-speed USB solution available today). Switching USB ports usually fixes it; and the rear panel ports on most PCs are "better" than those on the front - and so are usually the best choice. We are currently working with C-Media to find a solution that will eliminate the problem entirely. One thing you should consider, on the Win7 x64 machine *I* have that shows this problem, it happens on ALL the ports (front and back) and the same exact machine worked flawlessly with the XDA-1 -- there were never any OS crashes, driver enhancement OS warnings, recurring audio screeching or multiple misnamed playback devices. It appears to me that all four of these product issues are unique to the XDA-2 and it's CMedia device driver.
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Post by paradigmE on Nov 30, 2012 14:08:36 GMT -5
Thank You Keith - I appreciate the answer and will go ahead and order as planned without hesitation.
One random side item to note - I have a home studio and more USB soundcards than a normal person should own. I did have one problem a few years back related to issues maintaining digital lock on one device that the problem magicaly went away when I made sure the PC and a external USB soundcard(That had its own power) were plugged into the same circuit. In the end I wrote it off as some digital equivalent to a ground loop issue. Just throwing it out there.
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Post by ribbonking on Nov 30, 2012 17:22:45 GMT -5
I set up my XDA-2 today and have positive news - its working well. Connected to a PC via digital coax cable, Windows 8 Pro, J River Media player. So far I can report from initial listening that it compares favorably with my Yulong Sabre D18 Dac. The XDA-2 definitely sounds better in my system with ASRC engaged. The only issues I had were from my own stupidity. I thought the remote didn't work, Called Emo and Nick walked me through the fix - I didn't remove the plastic piece in the battery area that prevents them from discharging until it gets to the user. I also had a hard time finding the Standby button on the front of the XDA-2 to power down the unit. Hate to admit I was that incapable but Emotiva staff saved me from myself. Kudos to them. They were also kind enough not to tell me I was an idiot.
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Post by garbulky on Nov 30, 2012 17:33:26 GMT -5
Nice. Glad to hear that you are enjoying yourself! Sounds like you have a great combo going! Have you tried the USB output?
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Post by ribbonking on Nov 30, 2012 18:19:22 GMT -5
Haven't tried and don't plan to. I use USB out on this PC to feed another Dac for a separate headphone system.
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Post by goat1981 on Nov 30, 2012 18:32:18 GMT -5
We are currently working with C-Media to find a solution that will eliminate the problem entirely. This is good news. Please keep us informed. Thanks for putting in all this work to get the problem resolved. For now, I will enjoy the XDA-2 via TOSLINK.
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Post by regnad on Nov 30, 2012 18:58:51 GMT -5
I have been largely successful with Mac mini USB to the XDA-2 except for some instances where only 44k and 48k are available. At that time the USB listing under System Info shows a 12Mb/sec connection to the XDA-2. Turning the DAC off and on usually solves the problem, again allowing all rates and showing 480Mb/sec in the System Info screen.
Another data point.
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Post by garbulky on Nov 30, 2012 19:01:26 GMT -5
That;s new. It appears to be reverting from USB2 to USB1. Did this happen in the middle of playing songs. Does it happen when there is "screeching/sound anomalies". Whatabout when there is no sound playing or hasn't been any sound playing, does it revert to 12 MB/sec?
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Post by shadowlight on Nov 30, 2012 21:50:32 GMT -5
Ok, count me as another one with screeching sound. I also got the following popup within 45 seconds of the first song under win7 x64, 4gb of memory, HP 4530s Pro Laptop with i5 processor. The port that the xda2 was plugged in was the left side second port from the front of the laptop which I believe is USB3 port.
"Windows has detected that audio enhancements for the following device are causing problems:
SPDIF Interface (2-USB 2.0 High-Speed True HD Audio)
Would you like to disable Driver Enhancements for this device?"
Using JRiver in Directmode and WASAPI mode. Files being played were 44.1k or 192k from 2L website. Will try using it with Linux shortly. Tried it earlier with Mint but got no sound, so in the process of installing Kubuntu.
While I was trying to make it work with Linux, I got a strange behavior where switching from USB to Coax2 where my Logitech Touch is connected I got no sound. Had to put the dac in standby mode and take it out before I got sound again. Will test it again and let you know.
Edit: Tried the first port on the left side and no longer getting any sound even though it installed the drivers successfully and shows up under the device manager.
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