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Post by GreenKiwi on Sept 2, 2013 22:28:38 GMT -5
For me, it hits most things except for two HDMI outs, we have a TV and projector, in different rooms. I would really like to have had the TV as a full zone 2, so I could have one unit control it all. And as things get closer ill evaluate all the different options and choose the one that makes the most sense.
All in all, I believe that at full price the XMC will still be on the greater value than cost, which is a great place to be.
We will have to see how the apps and controls stack up to see how far it is on that side. For instance, can I use IP commands to have it pass them out the IR port? That would be a huge value to me. I don't want to have to swap between apps.
Can the Ethernet streaming turn the device on? Will it support airplay? Apple has announced that they are being more flexible with airplay. And having airplay support would again be a huge value to me and the setup I am running.
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Post by paintedklown on Sept 2, 2013 22:38:01 GMT -5
So OP was asking for debate on other products on the market and value? That's not how I read it, but apologize if that's what he intended. Clearly "bargain" is going to mean different things to different people. I'm not sure that question can be answered. Both the denon 4520 and yamaha 3020 kill the XMC on features. 3 hdmi outs vs 1. 11.2 or 9.2 processing vs 7.2. Built in amps vs no amps (well this could be a downside). Network streaming. Mobile apps. Way more connection options. Oh, and they're actually available. At the same price as the XMC (without the discount cards). The only strikes in the XMC column are XLR outs. Maybe sound quality and maybe Dirac. No one can say for sure because no one has heard them outside a controlled Emo demo room. Or had a chance to A/B them with said products. Am I missing any strikes in the XMC column? the new CX-A5000 covers down. Its available now and its $3K. Edit - $2500 on Amazon (an authorized dealer). Speaking of Yamaha, I have been eyeballing the new RX-A1030 for a while now. www.crutchfield.com/p_022RXA1030/Yamaha-RX-A1030.htmlExcellent connectivity (minus XLR though), and a decent price point at $1099.99. Doesn't look too bad IMO, and from what I have read, the Aventage series is supposedly a nice step up in SQ from the RX-V series. To be 100% truthful here, I have been staying out of the "XMC-1 price fight" for the simple fact that I do not want to give up legacy analog video. From looking around Yamaha and Denon seem to be the only major players that include a full suite of legacy video inputs with HDMI switching/scaling. Yamaha seems to do it for less cost than Denon, however. I am GUESSING it is partly due to Denon's licensing fees for Audyssey XT32. While I would really like to see XLR outputs on the Yamaha, it doesn't seriously matter in the long run as only my XPA-1 are truly balanced, and I have the XSP-1 for those. Anyway, just tossing out that option for those looking for a lower cost alternative.
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Post by Gary Cook on Sept 2, 2013 22:52:00 GMT -5
Unfortunately for some it's not a $300 increase, for Aussies like me it's a whole lot more. At $899 it slips under the $1K limit for duty and GST, but at $1199 it doesn't. So that means duty at 5% plus incremental GST at 10% on the total price including freight. Similar cost multipliers probably apply to any Emotiva customers in duty and tax regimes. Then of course we are subject to exchange rate fluctuations, which at the moment for $A is not so good. As a comparison an XMC-1 at the old price & exchange rate would have cost me around $A1050 (after 40% discount). Now it's going to be around $A1750, so all you guys complaining about a $US300 price increase (after 40% discount) consider yourselves lucky you're not an O/S Emotiva customer. I'm curious, for Ozzies, could you guys buy it "used" and have it slip under the pricing barrier? Even if "used" was simply it being shipping to someone and then to you? i.e. not quite direct from Emo? Sure I could get Emotiva to ship it to someone I know in the US who paid Emotiva for it, have them open the box (so it doesn't look new), dirty it up a bit (so it looks used) roughly repack it (so it looks like it was packed by an amateur) and make up a dummy invoice (for less than $A1K), fill out the customs declaration form and then send it to me (assuming they have a Fedex account). Of course I'd have to pay them for it in separate payments (the important one being less than $A1K) because Customs can (and do frequently) request payment proof. Especially since Customs have been known to compare prices, say if someone else (in Australia) buys an XMC-1 and pays full price. It's just a simple click on their keyboard for price comparisons. Any suspicions and they can charge the duty and GST and you have to fight them for it after you have paid it. Or they can simply impound the item. Of course if they catch you trying it, well let's say that the consequences aren't pretty. Cheers Gary
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Post by PGT on Sept 2, 2013 22:57:18 GMT -5
I've got an RX-A1000 and just had to send it back for repair. While it was out, I put my old RX-V3300 in its place. Guess which one sounded better? The old one.....chalk it up to better amplification. Yamaha is stepping up and swapping my down unit for a refurb 1010. I suspect it will sound the same. I'd love to put a proper Emo pre/proc on this system but it runs my outdoor system on second zone and I control it through the iPhone app. User interface > SQ in my case, though it sounds pretty damned good. Polk Atrium 30's x 4, two Atrium subs (POS drivers yanked out and Polk DB series swapped in and run off); the sats are run off a Sherbourn amp and the subs will either be the UPA-200 I won (if I can sort out a crossover for it) or the Crown XLS1000 I just unboxed (per Andrew Robinson's rec).
This gets back to the OP's posited theory; the XMC-1 is a bargain. SQ, yes, features...not so much. But, that's never been Emo's raison d'etre anyways I guess. Its why I love my SR8100.....minimalist (though I'd like preamp outputs...just in case).
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Post by autocrat on Sept 2, 2013 23:25:53 GMT -5
Sure I could get Emotiva to ship it to someone I know in the US who paid Emotiva for it, have them open the box (so it doesn't look new), dirty it up a bit (so it looks used) roughly repack it (so it looks like it was packed by an amateur) and make up a dummy invoice (for less than $A1K), fill out the customs declaration form and then send it to me (assuming they have a Fedex account). Of course I'd have to pay them for it in separate payments (the important one being less than $A1K) because Customs can (and do frequently) request payment proof. Especially since Customs have been known to compare prices, say if someone else (in Australia) buys an XMC-1 and pays full price. It's just a simple click on their keyboard for price comparisons. Any suspicions and they can charge the duty and GST and you have to fight them for it after you have paid it. Or they can simply impound the item. Of course if they catch you trying it, well let's say that the consequences aren't pretty. Cheers Gary Also, nobody's going to be able to ship it for the same price Emo get, that'll probably cancel out the tax anyway. Last time I bought a couple of things from Emotiva they sent them separately - what I lost on the shipping I more than made up for on the tax. Maybe this time I could convince them to send the $500 remote control in a separate box...
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Post by nicholas322 on Sept 2, 2013 23:29:19 GMT -5
I just have to say that I feel a lot more comfortable buying the x prossessor now that the price went up. It was asking a little too much to get a statement product for the price of an entry level reciever. I can't wait to order one.
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Post by GreenKiwi on Sept 2, 2013 23:31:06 GMT -5
Sure I could get Emotiva to ship it to someone I know in the US who paid Emotiva for it, have them open the box (so it doesn't look new), dirty it up a bit (so it looks used) roughly repack it (so it looks like it was packed by an amateur) and make up a dummy invoice (for less than $A1K), fill out the customs declaration form and then send it to me (assuming they have a Fedex account). Of course I'd have to pay them for it in separate payments (the important one being less than $A1K) because Customs can (and do frequently) request payment proof. Especially since Customs have been known to compare prices, say if someone else (in Australia) buys an XMC-1 and pays full price. It's just a simple click on their keyboard for price comparisons. Any suspicions and they can charge the duty and GST and you have to fight them for it after you have paid it. Or they can simply impound the item. Of course if they catch you trying it, well let's say that the consequences aren't pretty. Cheers Gary Also, nobody's going to be able to ship it for the same price Emo get, that'll probably cancel out the tax anyway. Last time I bought a couple of things from Emotiva they sent them separately - what I lost on the shipping I more than made up for on the tax. Maybe this time I could convince them to send the $500 remote control in a separate box... Maybe they could ship the "Durac" license separately... or purchase it separately.
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Post by cwt on Sept 3, 2013 4:55:42 GMT -5
In the spirit of asking about the true value of the xmc1 which is how I took the op - I spose I look at the big picture to a great extent ; I would ask if most agree that 1. Room eq has a bigger effect on sound quality than the pre pro ? and consequently ; 2. The datasat rs20.1 with dirac as well has a rrp of around 18,600 pounds Now feel free to speculate which of these following will be delivered for the basic xmc1 or for an entirely reasonable upgraded dirac version later on [urge you to remember that 1/2 the xmc1 cost is the dirac ;the rest isn't good value ? - it's so easy to pick apart the xmc1 opposition ] . Until the full details are available Ide suggest any post denigrating the value is a bit premature ; but of course it depends on what you want to read into the op and where your priorities lie. I think as others do its all a bit of a game changer .. Especially the mention from emofest that the mbps used to process dirac is a high priority www.audiologica.co.uk/datasat/?gclid=CN2HrInrrrkCFShIpgode3wAjw
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Post by Nemesis.ie on Sept 3, 2013 8:07:19 GMT -5
Well said Gerald/tchaik...it's a bargain. My ONLY debate is will I take "this" bargain or the "next" one (aka, an RMC-1 or whatever they call it...). Mark As many know, the RMC-1 has been the unit I've been most interested in all along (assuming at least 9.2), I'd really like to hear a bit more about it and a "more firm" release date. I did notice the odd shot of XMC-1 circuit boards that appeared to have silk screens for at least 2 more channels or such, so presumably the hardware may be complete and it's software processing etc. that would cause a delay - a simultaneous release would be great.
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klinemj
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Post by klinemj on Sept 3, 2013 9:15:33 GMT -5
I'd like to hear that also, but per my notes - the below is all we got on info on it:
"As soon as Ray is fully done with the XMC-1 work in earnest on 2 other processor products will begin. Regarding the RMC-1, they have a basic analog design done including fully differential on all channels, added display features, top tier DAC’s, etc. It will have more inputs/outputs and generally higher level components throughout – esp. to hot rod the analog section."
As we know, they are now not quoting timings until they are very well set. But, it looks like it won't be nearly the big deal to spin off the RMC and a UMC-500-like machine from the XMC as it was to get the XMC to this point. I am hoping for less than a year...but that's a hope and not any quote from anyone at Emotiva.
Mark
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Post by frenchyfranky on Sept 3, 2013 9:20:15 GMT -5
I just have to say that I feel a lot more comfortable buying the x prossessor now that the price went up. It was asking a little too much to get a statement product for the price of an entry level reciever. I can't wait to order one. The good thing about the new higher price of the XMC-1 is that a lot of people thinking " you got what you pay for " and they will now be sure to purchased a 33% better quality processor.
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DYohn
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Post by DYohn on Sept 3, 2013 9:31:31 GMT -5
The fact that they are planning to deliver this level of performance for $2K is pretty amazing in today's market.
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Post by neo20013 on Sept 3, 2013 9:41:19 GMT -5
... UMC-500-like machine from the XMC... If, as stated, Dirac is 50% of the unit costs, it could be interesting to consider an XMC-Lite, without Dirac. And as the XMC has a modular architecture, it would be interesting if the user could later update his XMC with the Dirac module. Obviously, i don't know if this is feasible, or even interesting from Emotiva standpoint.
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Post by ÈlTwo on Sept 3, 2013 9:44:53 GMT -5
I wonder what they will cut to do a UMC-500, and what price point it would come in at?
Perhaps cut XLR, and replace Dirac with something else.
I'm guessing I'm pretty far down on the reservation list for the XMC-1, so I might have till March, or later, to decide.
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Post by GreenKiwi on Sept 3, 2013 10:01:37 GMT -5
Yeah, in the end, the UMC-500 might be what the original XMC-1 was going to be at 999, and the XMC-1, will effectively be the rmc-1.
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klinemj
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Post by klinemj on Sept 3, 2013 10:02:05 GMT -5
neo2013...as is with the XMC-1, one can separately buy other versions of DIRAC, run it on their computer, and port the results to the XMC-1. So, providing a processor processing mid-way between a UMC-200 and an XMC-1 might be able to leverage what you say. There is a board for DIRAC, though...so I would assume that the mid-level product would have to have a board in it also.
As to what all they might cut to make a mid-point processor...good questions! Perhaps it could be a cut back on some of the details like the really nice front screen on the XMC-1, a different level of or elimination of DIRAC, lower level DAC's and other misc. components. We will see.
Mark
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Post by mshump on Sept 3, 2013 10:13:40 GMT -5
I have a question concerning if the XMC-1 is worth the price:
I have always used a AVR and had decent results, I recently have upgraded to the Sherbourn 7020A, XPA-3, and a UPA-200. I have to say I am more than thrilled with this set-up and SQ. I couldn't believe the SQ when I turned it on the first time for a movie.
So if anyone can help me in what the XMC-1 would give me over what I have, I would really appreciate it.
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Post by monkumonku on Sept 3, 2013 10:18:39 GMT -5
I have a question concerning if the XMC-1 is worth the price: I have always used a AVR and had decent results, I recently have upgraded to the Sherbourn 7020A, XPA-3, and a UPA-200. I have to say I am more than thrilled with this set-up and SQ. I couldn't believe the SQ when I turned it on the first time for a movie. So if anyone can help me in what the XMC-1 would give me over what I have, I would really appreciate it. I'm sure you will get various opinions but I would say if you are in need of a parametric equalizer and room correction, then the XMC-1 sounds like it will be worthwhile. If you are happy with the way your system sounds now, I say that's great! No need to fix what ain't broken. I doubt the XMC-1 will make much, if any difference in the sound for you.
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Post by neo20013 on Sept 3, 2013 10:24:52 GMT -5
...so I would assume that the mid-level product would have to have a board in it also. As to what all they might cut to make a mid-point processor...good questions! Perhaps it could be a cut back on some of the details like ... elimination of DIRAC, lower level DAC's and other misc. components. Mark Makes sense. If the complete elimination of Dirac alone (assuming it would have a Parametric system like the UMC-200) could lower the price to 999$ (again, based on the reference of the 50% costs of the Dirac implementation), it could be a very interesting product. Lets wait and see
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Post by mshump on Sept 3, 2013 10:33:38 GMT -5
I have a question concerning if the XMC-1 is worth the price: I have always used a AVR and had decent results, I recently have upgraded to the Sherbourn 7020A, XPA-3, and a UPA-200. I have to say I am more than thrilled with this set-up and SQ. I couldn't believe the SQ when I turned it on the first time for a movie. So if anyone can help me in what the XMC-1 would give me over what I have, I would really appreciate it. I'm sure you will get various opinions but I would say if you are in need of a parametric equalizer and room correction, then the XMC-1 sounds like it will be worthwhile. If you are happy with the way your system sounds now, I say that's great! No need to fix what ain't broken. I doubt the XMC-1 will make much, if any difference in the sound for you. Thanks !! I appreciate your opinion and advice.
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